Board 8 > Touhou Mafia - Topic 9: Deaf to All But the Song

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htaeD
02/16/12 1:47:00 PM
#401:


...that is a fair point
though with this weird flavor distribution, one can never know what could fit an SK

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htaeD
02/16/12 1:47:00 PM
#402:


btw did Raka claim his own flavor too? I forgot what he fake claimed (besides doctor obv)

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 1:54:00 PM
#403:


2v1v1 is a good scenario for town. Dunno why Fett is lying to the game. Don't listen to him on this note.

I will go into great detail if I have to.



Fett/Death are most likely to be scum, as far as I am concerned.

This seems noteworthy: we all think that Spiral wasn't flat out lying and there is a scum role that frames/insanes/etc scanners, right? It's technically possible that Regaro's scan was manipulated and he isn't confirmed town. Hell, it's also possible that I was framed/etc and got the wrong result on Regaro or Death, right?

This makes things less clear cut imo.

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htaeD
02/16/12 1:59:00 PM
#404:


well if we start to get confused even about cop and prosty results, we might as well vote whoever could be either SK or Scum

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htaeD
02/16/12 2:00:00 PM
#405:


allthough that could be a reason why scum kept you alive and shot Ulti instead

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Fett0001
02/16/12 2:00:00 PM
#406:


By all means. Explain to me why 2v1v1 is better than 3v2.


Then, tell me how many sk's you've seen that weren't bp, in games of 21 or more.

Then, shut up and vote caelus.

Posting from phone.

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 2:02:00 PM
#407:


Fett0001 posted...
From: _Regaro_ | #375
Caelus is my top choice for SK now by a fair margin, I think, for the reasons I laid out earlier.

Is there a point in quick-playing today, though?
The longer people talk, the more likely boko might convince them to do something stupid, like aim for 2v1v1




What is this? I'm not "aiming" for anything other than a scum lynch here. 2v1v1 is not just fine, it is actively a good result for town.

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 2:05:00 PM
#408:


Fett0001 posted...
By all means. Explain to me why 2v1v1 is better than 3v2.


Then, tell me how many sk's you've seen that weren't bp, in games of 21 or more.

Then, shut up and vote caelus.

Posting from phone.



Both single team factions have to crosskill to win. If one doesn't, he risks stalemating/losing. Crosskill = win for town.

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 2:07:00 PM
#409:


So when the scum winning play makes town win, seems like 2v1v1 is a good place to be.

Obv 3-2 is better - but it's better odds to lynch higher% scum than go for someone who is a coinflip for town or SK.

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Fett0001
02/16/12 2:25:00 PM
#410:


And yet, if we lynch town, sk shoots mafia. Since he wants to win. Welcome to2v1v1

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 2:33:00 PM
#411:


Um, what? How does that support your point.

Yes, town lynch is bad.

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Fett0001
02/16/12 2:39:00 PM
#412:


HeroicZidane posted...
Um, what? How does that support your point.

Yes, town lynch is bad.


That's just it. It's the same as lynching mafia.

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:02:00 PM
#413:


[5] Kracko: (Ulti), Fett, Raka, Regaro, Tom, Anonymous
[4] Raka: Caelus, Kracko, Ulti, Vaga
[0] Caelus: (Kracko), (Ulti)
[0] No Lynch: (Tom), (Anonymous)
[0] Regaro: (Caelus)


guys, hear me out on something. I had Raka set to lynch 4-3 and at the last second, Tom double votes and Kracko is lynched. Raka is dead moments later and that would have to be the work of the SK right? So, if Tom double votes to take Kracko out and then kills Raka after my anti-Raka campaign, it looks like I'm the SK and that I finished what I started. Tom, why did you vote Kracko? Why did you think he was scummier than Raka who I had literally caught on a fishhook?

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HeroicZidane
02/16/12 3:14:00 PM
#414:


ImTheMacheteGuy posted...
[5] Kracko: (Ulti), Fett, Raka, Regaro, Tom, Anonymous
[4] Raka: Caelus, Kracko, Ulti, Vaga
[0] Caelus: (Kracko), (Ulti)
[0] No Lynch: (Tom), (Anonymous)
[0] Regaro: (Caelus)

guys, hear me out on something. I had Raka set to lynch 4-3 and at the last second, Tom double votes and Kracko is lynched. Raka is dead moments later and that would have to be the work of the SK right? So, if Tom double votes to take Kracko out and then kills Raka after my anti-Raka campaign, it looks like I'm the SK and that I finished what I started. Tom, why did you vote Kracko? Why did you think he was scummier than Raka who I had literally caught on a fishhook?



Tom and I were paranoid of the role claim, as well as the way people were piling on Raka the moment he was mentioned by me and you. We failed to take into account that Raka didn't actually suspect Chris when he "saved" me and the fact thst "claimed doc was alive." My bad.

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:16:00 PM
#415:


I thought Kracko was scummier, really, and didn't have reason enough to think otherwise to justify lynching claimed doc. Raka was never higher than #2 on my list. I would've voted Kracko earlier if I'd not wanted to get discussion going first.

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:19:00 PM
#416:


Ah okay. I would be fine with going after the SK today but Tom was my main suspect after I thought of that. I know Raka was killed so the SK could hide behind me. That was something I didn't take into consideration last night but ultimately getting Raka out of the game needed to happen. I guess I'll have to go back over last nights events even though I'm not a fan at reading my own crazy drunken ramblings >_<

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:23:00 PM
#417:


Has anybody even brought up "Oh Raka's dead obviously Caelus killed him" as an argument? You seem convinced this is the only reason Raka would be dead, when really it's a highly logical choice for SK regardless of who went after him previously.

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:24:00 PM
#418:


and didn't have reason enough to think otherwise to justify lynching claimed doc.

I guess I can understand not everyone having faith in me at the time >_< (even though he walked right into my trap).

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:25:00 PM
#419:


You did a good job pressing him but I still don't really buy your main argument about the U.N. Owen thing even though he flipped scum. >_>

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:30:00 PM
#420:


Has anybody even brought up "Oh Raka's dead obviously Caelus killed him" as an argument? You seem convinced this is the only reason Raka would be dead, when really it's a highly logical choice for SK regardless of who went after him previously.

Not in so many words but I wasn't expecting people to think I was SK at all and then people started saying that and Fett voted me. When people started saying I was SK suspect, I just figured it was because Raka was killed after I tried to lynch him. I didn't really have a reason to think otherwise. I mean I hadn't even thought much about the SK until fingers were pointed at me. I thought it was Ulti at first because of lack of kills the nights he was dead.

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 3:36:00 PM
#421:


From: ImTheMacheteGuy | #420
Not in so many words but I wasn't expecting people to think I was SK at all and then people started saying that and Fett voted me. When people started saying I was SK suspect, I just figured it was because Raka was killed after I tried to lynch him. I didn't really have a reason to think otherwise. I mean I hadn't even thought much about the SK until fingers were pointed at me. I thought it was Ulti at first because of lack of kills the nights he was dead.


The strongest argument for you being SK is really straight numbers at this point <_<

It's not Vaga because xfd SK Reviver that revives as town
It's not Tom because xfd SK Doublevoter/Mason-for-a-day
It's not Boko because xfd SK Prosty
It's not Reg because I was slept with and didn't get up
It's not Death because he was slept with and didn't get up

So literally the only other possibility for SK, barring something absurdly weird going on, is Fett (Which I think you realized already - You did vote him earlier, didn't you?). And frankly, I buy Fett over you as not-SK because of the speed and paraphrase he was able to give on his claim. Doesn't strike me as something that he'd come up with on his own at all.

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:39:00 PM
#422:


You did a good job pressing him but I still don't really buy your main argument about the U.N. Owen thing even though he flipped scum. >_>

well he also claimed to have saved Chris when that wasn't the case. Basically I was using my weakness (being a newb) as a strength. I wanted to see how people would treat me. Raka was being TOO understanding. My flavor meta posts were not well recieved, but Raka said he'd do the same in my position if he knew Touhou better. I knew that he knows enough about Touhou for that statement to be a fatal tell. Town should've been annoyed with me for not being more helpful, while scum should've been wanting to keep me around. Raka was just too nice and too interested in my flavor meta (which was not that well recieved). All of this put together was enough to convince me he was scum and by convince I mean I knew it for a fact at that point as if he had literally shown me his cards.

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:45:00 PM
#423:


The strongest argument for you being SK is really straight numbers at this point <_<

It's not Vaga because xfd SK Reviver that revives as town
It's not Tom because xfd SK Doublevoter/Mason-for-a-day
It's not Boko because xfd SK Prosty
It's not Reg because I was slept with and didn't get up
It's not Death because he was slept with and didn't get up


Well if you're willing to get rid of me on a sheer numbers basis, you guys all better get ready to deal with absurdly weird s*** because I guarantee you I will flip town.

And why is double-voter SK so xfd? People talk about lots of scum power roles and broken town roles, why would the SK NOT get something powerful to equalize himself? Also, what exactly is mason-for-a-day?

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:47:00 PM
#424:


It's my talking thing.

SK should get something powerful, yes. I'm arguing that the powerful stuff I had makes not much sense for scum.

It's also pretty gamebreaking at endgame.

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:48:00 PM
#425:


which is why doublevoter is pretty much always town

scum mason is pretty dang rare as well and although it isn't quite the same I think it's close enough

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 3:49:00 PM
#426:


From: ImTheMacheteGuy | #423
And why is double-voter SK so xfd?


In general, confirmable roles are town roles. There are exceptions, but what the doublevoter needs in a game of 27 is a way to not die. Not a way to get himself shot even faster than normal (Literally the only reason I was shot in FE maf is because I was double voter). Also, Mason for a day is Tom's power thing where he can pick a person and talk to them outside of the topic for the day, is the way I understand it. Boko can probably explain it better.

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 3:49:00 PM
#427:


that's pretty much it yeah

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:52:00 PM
#428:


It's also pretty gamebreaking at endgame.

yeah I can understand that. Didn't really think about that. So what role WOULD make sense for an SK that would give them a reasonable chance in a game with roles like the ones this has? I want to prove it's not me but I don't really know how to go about doing that.

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htaeD
02/16/12 3:54:00 PM
#429:


well I have seen BPSKs with an additional power before

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 3:54:00 PM
#430:


From: ImTheMacheteGuy | #428
So what role WOULD make sense for an SK that would give them a reasonable chance in a game with roles like the ones this has?


Bulletproof, Unblockable kills (Though since they shot Raka, this looks pretty unlikely IMHO), and Innocent-Scanning are the three main things SKs get (But usually only one of them). Bulletproof is the one I'd expect to see here, given the size of the game

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 3:57:00 PM
#431:


_Regaro_ posted...
From: ImTheMacheteGuy | #428
So what role WOULD make sense for an SK that would give them a reasonable chance in a game with roles like the ones this has?
Bulletproof, Unblockable kills (Though since they shot Raka, this looks pretty unlikely IMHO), and Innocent-Scanning are the three main things SKs get (But usually only one of them). Bulletproof is the one I'd expect to see here, given the size of the game


So if an SK is bulletproof, a night with only 1 kill could be the result of mafia trying to kill the SK and failing and the 1 kill being the SK's kill, not mafia?

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 3:59:00 PM
#432:


From: ImTheMacheteGuy | #431
So if an SK is bulletproof, a night with only 1 kill could be the result of mafia trying to kill the SK and failing and the 1 kill being the SK's kill, not mafia?


Either that or the kills both being on the same person, I reckon

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 4:02:00 PM
#433:


Either that or the kills both being on the same person, I reckon

I'm surprised I just found this out without ever having wondered if it was possible >_<

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 4:04:00 PM
#434:


well what else would happen if both scum and the sk tried to shoot the same guy? Would he just die twice?

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 4:05:00 PM
#435:


or lolscumdoc

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htaeD
02/16/12 4:07:00 PM
#436:


he'd be so dead he'd be janitor'd..
...
that will be a new rule in Mafia 5th edition

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htaeD
02/16/12 4:08:00 PM
#437:


also yeah that is right
Raka ccould have protected someone N2..

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Tom Bombadil
02/16/12 4:08:00 PM
#438:


boko wants me to post that he thinks I am SK

I want to post that I am not SK

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_Regaro_
02/16/12 4:09:00 PM
#439:


From: htaeD | #437
also yeah that is right
Raka ccould have protected someone N2..


He was allowed to because he was scum probably, but A) Would scum be stupid enough to shoot into his protection when they would know full well where it's going and B) Would the SK even be allowed to act N2? The flavor did say the "Scum Faction"

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 4:12:00 PM
#440:


well what else would happen if both scum and the sk tried to shoot the same guy? Would he just die twice?

I just literally hadn't thought about it. I never asked myself that question.

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htaeD
02/16/12 4:13:00 PM
#441:


ehr right
nvm
but Raka's actions could still explain the lack of multiple deaths N3
maybe Raka protected Silver, while SK tried to kill Silver..
and somehow the watch results were reversed..

but then again this discussion probably doesnt help narrow down the SK's identity

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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/16/12 4:23:00 PM
#442:


God damn I should've gone to bed earlier last night. Drunken rants painful to read >_<

My suspicions of Fett as SK are renewed though. Not voting again now, but I don't like how he wanted to hammer Reg and then jumped on me when talks of going after SK started

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Mr_Vaga
02/16/12 5:06:00 PM
#443:


Why exactly are we trying to figure out what Raka did?

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Mr_Vaga
02/16/12 5:10:00 PM
#444:


Also I don't think Scum left Boko alive to have him steer us of course with what info he uncovered at night.

He's still alive because him being dead today would basically confirm Raka as Scum. That and I think Scum thought Ulti was the SK.

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Fett0001
02/16/12 9:10:00 PM
#445:


ImTheMacheteGuy posted...
God damn I should've gone to bed earlier last night. Drunken rants painful to read >_<

My suspicions of Fett as SK are renewed though. Not voting again now, but I don't like how he wanted to hammer Reg and then jumped on me when talks of going after SK started

I'd been out drinking,and if you remember, I started those talks.

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MajinZidane
02/16/12 9:32:00 PM
#446:


does anyone think that fett/death could be town

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Fett0001
02/16/12 9:42:00 PM
#447:


From: MajinZidane | #446
does anyone think that fett/death could be town


You did, until I stopped us from shooting ourselves in the foot.

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MajinZidane
02/16/12 9:43:00 PM
#448:


I thought fett/death could be town when was that

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Fett0001
02/16/12 9:46:00 PM
#449:


Last game day.

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Fett0001
02/16/12 9:47:00 PM
#450:


Not that it matters. Noone but you is stupid enough to try and lynch mafia.

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