Board 8 > Canadian Miss Universe finalist disqualified.

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Procrastinater
03/26/12 11:02:00 PM
#1:


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Because she was born a boy and had a sex change operation at 19.

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Menji76
03/26/12 11:03:00 PM
#2:


I still would.

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blindhobo13
03/26/12 11:03:00 PM
#3:


I bet she's still more attractive than at least half of the "real" girls.

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foolm0ron
03/26/12 11:05:00 PM
#4:


That's the best Canada could come up with?

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:05:00 PM
#5:


That's a pretty offensive ruling there tbqh.

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KingBartz
03/26/12 11:06:00 PM
#6:


Really Joyrock? Someone who has been a woman for like two years should be eligible to represent all Canadian women?

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Liquid Wind
03/26/12 11:08:00 PM
#7:



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The Utility Man
03/26/12 11:09:00 PM
#8:


Fair Disqualification IMO.

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:09:00 PM
#9:


KingBartz posted...
Really Joyrock? Someone who has been a woman for like two years should be eligible to represent all Canadian women?

Someone who is a woman shouldn't be able to compete with other women?

How long she has been a woman doesn't matter.

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WarThaNemesis2
03/26/12 11:12:00 PM
#10:


Rules clearly state must be natural-born female. She was not born a woman, ergo not eligible. I'm not seeing the offensive part of this.

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foolm0ron
03/26/12 11:12:00 PM
#11:


Someone who has a been a woman for 19 years is more qualified to represent all woman than one who has been one for 2 years?

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:13:00 PM
#12:


WarThaNemesis2 posted...
Rules clearly state must be natural-born female. She was not born a woman, ergo not eligible. I'm not seeing the offensive part of this.

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.

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StealThisSheen
03/26/12 11:15:00 PM
#13:


OctilIery posted...

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.



Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory



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Justin_Crossing
03/26/12 11:16:00 PM
#14:


From: StealThisSheen | #012
From: OctilIery

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.


Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory


yes

i had a dream when i came out of the womb

but it will never be fulfilled

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:18:00 PM
#15:


StealThisSheen posted...
OctilIery posted...

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.


Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory


More or less. Not offensive, but it is stupid.

Then maybe the person who has been a woman for so long should win the competition. Being born a man doesn't giver her an advantage, so why should she not be allowed to compete?

I don't think Foolmo was actually suggesting it was true.

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:20:00 PM
#16:


KingBartz posted...
From: OctilIery | #017
StealThisSheen posted...
OctilIery posted...

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.


Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory

More or less. Not offensive, but it is stupid.
Ok, topic over


I'd love for you to suggest how it isn't discriminatory. It fits the definition pretty damn well XD

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KingBartz
03/26/12 11:20:00 PM
#17:


From: OctilIery | #017
StealThisSheen posted...
OctilIery posted...

ITT it being a rule makes discrimination less offensive.


Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory

More or less. Not offensive, but it is stupid.


Ok, topic over, nothing to see here

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Liquid Wind
03/26/12 11:21:00 PM
#18:


Being born a man doesn't giver her an advantage

implants?
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Weakupedia
03/26/12 11:21:00 PM
#19:


i'd weigh in on this but then joyrock would just jump on me like a chihuahua to its owner's leg so i'm just gonna grab some popcorn

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thundersheep
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#20:


From: OctilIery | #017
I don't think Foolmo was actually suggesting it was true.


My bad. This kind of stuff makes me rage for some reason. Sarcasm flies right over my head.

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#21:


Liquid Wind posted...
Being born a man doesn't giver her an advantage

implants?


Because clearly everyone there is all natural, guaranteed.


Weakupedia posted...
i'd weigh in on this but then joyrock would just jump on me like a chihuahua to its owner's leg so i'm just gonna grab some popcorn

Only if you said something stupid :3

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captaincanadian
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#22:


this is pretty obviously discriminatory. they even could have avoided the controversy altogether if they had just not let her on in the first place with some generic excuse (competitive field, etc) and never referenced the whole gender issue. I think I heard that they knew when they let her on though and only disqualified her after some sort of activist outrage.

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thundersheep
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#23:


From: foolm0ron | #012
Someone who has a been a woman for 19 years is more qualified to represent all woman than one who has been one for 2 years?


Then maybe the person who has been a woman for so long should win the competition. Being born a man doesn't give her an advantage, so why should she not be allowed to compete?

From: WarThaNemesis2 | #011
Rules clearly state must be natural-born female. She was not born a woman, ergo not eligible. I'm not seeing the offensive part of this.


Actually, no. There is no rule explicitly stating this. She's from Vancouver so I read the newspaper article about this today.

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KingBartz
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#24:


As well they should have

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StealThisSheen
03/26/12 11:22:00 PM
#25:


Anyway, I think the ruling is fair, but for a different reason:

She already represented Canada at Miss International Queen or whatever, a pageant specifically for transgender people. But now she's sorta... Double dipping.



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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:23:00 PM
#26:


thundersheep posted...
From: OctilIery | #017
I don't think Foolmo was actually suggesting it was true.
My bad. This kind of stuff makes me rage for some reason. Sarcasm flies right over my head.


It's the internet, Sarcasm doesn't work so well most of the time :P

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thundersheep
03/26/12 11:24:00 PM
#27:


From: Liquid Wind | #020
Being born a man doesn't giver her an advantage

implants?


Cosmetic surgery isn't against the rules either.

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KingBartz
03/26/12 11:24:00 PM
#28:


This person is a M2F Transgender. You can't have your cake and eat it.

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:25:00 PM
#29:


KingBartz posted...
This person is a M2F Transgender. You can't have your cake and eat it.

There's no legitimate reason to disqualify her over it, bottom line.

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FFaddict1313
03/26/12 11:26:00 PM
#30:


Rules were clearly stated before she entered. Changing them mid-contest would be unfair and would make a joke of the contest's competitive integrity.

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KingBartz
03/26/12 11:26:00 PM
#31:


Well I'm not going to change your mind, so instead I'll go to sleep.

Have fun being mad about this!

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:27:00 PM
#32:


FFaddict1313 posted...
Rules were clearly stated before she entered. Changing them mid-contest would be unfair and would make a joke of the contest's competitive integrity.

Rules were clearly offensive. The fact that they were rules doesn't change anything.

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:29:00 PM
#33:


KingBartz posted...
Well I'm not going to change your mind, so instead I'll go to sleep.

Have fun being mad about this!


Have fun being wrong :3

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foolm0ron
03/26/12 11:29:00 PM
#34:


From: StealThisSheen | #015
Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory


Technically it's discriminatory

It's perfectly reasonable and a good rule, but it is discriminatory

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iiicon
03/26/12 11:31:00 PM
#35:


Is there a rule that states undergoing plastic surgery renders a contestant ineligible? If so, I don't have a problem with this, but if surgically enhanced women are allowed into the contest I don't see why someone who identifies their gender as female shouldn't be allowed to participate.

From: thundersheep | #027
Cosmetic surgery isn't against the rules either.


oh. kinda sucks for her, then!


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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:31:00 PM
#36:


foolm0ron posted...
From: StealThisSheen | #015
Do you find having to been born in the US to be President discriminatory
Technically it's discriminatory

It's perfectly reasonable and a good rule, but it is discriminatory


I don't know how reasonable I'd call it tbqh. I think requiring full US citizenship, and a minimum period of living is more than acceptable, especially if it allows someone to get voted in who has the support of American voters.

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AdditionalPylon
03/26/12 11:31:00 PM
#37:


I'm sure they don't let men or hermaphrodites compete either. It's their competition, and they want it to be between people who are biologically women, I don't really see the problem here. It's unfortunate for her, but I imagine she didn't disclose the information from the start and it's obviously something that could raise either interests or concerns.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against transgendered people, but when you're running a contest for one gender you shouldn't be obligated to include them, and I'm sure she couldn't have been naive enough to think that it wouldn't matter to the people running the competition.
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scotted4
03/26/12 11:32:00 PM
#38:


good
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Justin_Crossing
03/26/12 11:33:00 PM
#39:


i wouldn't let her compete in the olympics as a woman

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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:34:00 PM
#40:


AdditionalPylon posted...
I'm sure they don't let men or hermaphrodites compete either. It's their competition, and they want it to be between people who are biologically women, I don't really see the problem here. It's unfortunate for her, but I imagine she didn't disclose the information from the start and it's obviously something that could raise either interests or concerns.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against transgendered people, but when you're running a contest for one gender you shouldn't be obligated to include them, and I'm sure she couldn't have been naive enough to think that it wouldn't matter to the people running the competition.


Biology should have nothing to do with it. Of someone identifies themselves as a Woman, they have a place in the contest. It's offensive because it's basically saying you have no place being compared to other women. Once again: It being a rule does not stop it from being offensive.

And for the record, if a man could actually compete(successfully) I'd certainly support him. Same for Hermaphrodites.

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WarThaNemesis2
03/26/12 11:34:00 PM
#41:


I just find it funny that someone who didn't mind at all competing in a competition that outright banned women is mad that she's not allowed in a contest that bans non-women.

When she considers herself a woman.

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StealThisSheen
03/26/12 11:35:00 PM
#42:


To clarify what I meant in my last post

She just recently finished a pageant where she identified strictly as a transgender person, not a female, because the pageant was for transgender people only.

Now she's saying she identifies strictly as a female to get into a female only pageant.

She just got done identifying as a transgender person to take part in a discriminatory pageant... To then change what she identifies as "most" to get into another discriminatory pageant, and is basically complaining when it didn't work.

Like, I'm not even getting into whether the rule is fair or not.

What she did just seems... Eh.



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Liquid Wind
03/26/12 11:35:00 PM
#43:


AdditionalPylon posted...
I'm sure they don't let men or hermaphrodites compete either. It's their competition, and they want it to be between people who are biologically women, I don't really see the problem here. It's unfortunate for her, but I imagine she didn't disclose the information from the start and it's obviously something that could raise either interests or concerns.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against transgendered people, but when you're running a contest for one gender you shouldn't be obligated to include them, and I'm sure she couldn't have been naive enough to think that it wouldn't matter to the people running the competition.


it's still really ****ed up for them to DQ her midway through the competition. if you define woman as someone who lacks Y chromosome's then I can understand that, but she should have been denied entry in the first place then
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Wanglicious
03/26/12 11:37:00 PM
#44:


came into topic going "how the hell does that happen, did she have balls or something."

then read first post.
then clicked pics.

pretty good job there. but i'm totally in favor of this ruling. if you're miss universe, never having a set seems like like a good criteria to me!

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LOLContests
03/26/12 11:37:00 PM
#45:


The American president having to be born in America is to prevent a foreign power from interfering in America's affairs. Regardless of whether or not it's still necessary, it's not just there to ban foreigners because Americans don't like them.

Having a rule stating that the Miss Canada/Universe participant can't be a fully post-op transgender person does not appear to serve any purpose other than banning transgender people because the organization doesn't like them.

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iiicon
03/26/12 11:38:00 PM
#46:


From: StealThisSheen | #042
She just recently finished a pageant where she identified strictly as a transgender person, not a female, because the pageant was for transgender people only.

Now she's saying she identifies strictly as a female to get into a female only pageant.


Transgender isn't a gender identity!


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OctilIery
03/26/12 11:39:00 PM
#47:


StealThisSheen posted...
To clarify what I meant in my last post

She just recently finished a pageant where she identified strictly as a transgender person, not a female, because the pageant was for transgender people only.

Now she's saying she identifies strictly as a female to get into a female only pageant.

She just got done identifying as a transgender person to take part in a discriminatory pageant... To then change what she identifies as "most" to get into another discriminatory pageant, and is basically complaining when it didn't work.

Like, I'm not even getting into whether the rule is fair or not.

What she did just seems... Eh.


The thing is, the transgender pageant isn't really discriminatory. It's a competition within a minority, which is PART of the larger majority(Women).

A competition which excludes an otherwhise eligible minority is discriminatory. A competition made specifically for a minority is NOT discriminatory.

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foolm0ron
03/26/12 11:39:00 PM
#48:


From: OctilIery | #040
Biology should have nothing to do with it.


Oh, okay, biology shouldn't have anything to do with a beauty contest that only cares about how good your genes make you look

Makes sense to me

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StealThisSheen
03/26/12 11:40:00 PM
#49:


iiicon posted...
Transgender isn't a gender identity!



Okay, I should have been more clear, sorry.

For the transgender pageant, she identified as a man who had an operation. Meaning she identified as a man, because females weren't allowed in the contest.



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foolm0ron
03/26/12 11:41:00 PM
#50:


From: OctilIery | #047
A competition made specifically for a minority is NOT discriminatory.


Come on, everyone

Look at who you are arguing with

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