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Board 8 > C/D: The standard 40-hour workweek = nonexistent work-life balance

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Vlado
05/02/12 6:40:00 AM
#51:


Work smart, not hard.

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Zachnorn
05/02/12 6:42:00 AM
#52:


I'm all for helping out those who need it. But as for helping out everyone...just take a look at this topic and you see a lot of people who don't want to work hard and would rather complain about the system. I have no interest in helping out people like that.

I don't think anyone is saying everyone can or should be helped. However, there are certain charities that try to get people into work. I remember one that would give homeless people showers, temporary housing, and donated suits for job interviews so they have an opportunity to work hard, for example.

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SmartMuffin
05/02/12 6:42:00 AM
#53:


Didn't read the topic. Just want to say that you're all a bunch of Communists.

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KingButz
05/02/12 6:43:00 AM
#54:


From: OmarsComin | #050
in this day and age, I don't even think having everyone fully employed at 40 hrs/week is reasonable. it's kind of silly with the giant upspikes in productivity and wealth since the industrial era that people are still by and large putting in at least 40 hour workweeks. it has nothing to do with people being lazy or whatever, there's just not that much work to be done when most of it can be automated or sped up by technology.

at some point I suspect we'll discard this notion of "everyone needs to work" as a social convention. it was essential at one point but not now.


I think that from a market sense jobs will no longer be necessary for all, but I mean, there is a lot of luxury work we could be doing with our extra money. It's kind of hard to believe we will run out of work anytime soon.

If we had so much extra productivity, think of all the money we could invest in R&D, beautification, education, and entertainment. The less time we spend working in production, the more time we will spend working in entertainment.

Even then if we ran short on work, I think it would be good for everyone to have a job, even if it just was 20 hours a week

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OmarsComin
05/02/12 6:45:00 AM
#55:


If we had so much extra productivity, think of all the money we could invest in R&D, beautification, education, and entertainment. The less time we spend working in production, the more time we will spend working in entertainment.

yeah I think so too

and a side effect of that is that more people are going to do what they actually want to do with their lives. so creative things, or inventing things, instead of working retail or a manufacturing line or whatever. the most monotonous jobs also happen to be the ones that should be easy to automate or at least cut down the amount of man hours needed.

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Theon_Greyjoy
05/02/12 6:46:00 AM
#56:


However, there are certain charities that try to get people into work.

Yeah, part of my paycheck goes to a local chapter of one of these. I hope they're effective in helping people get into work, people who need the help, otherwise I would stop donating.

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OmarsComin
05/02/12 6:46:00 AM
#57:


Didn't read the topic. Just want to say that you're all a bunch of Communists.

you work for the government. I am a free enterprise/sometimes day laborer. don't call me a communist, you're the one living on the public dime!

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pjbasis
05/02/12 6:47:00 AM
#58:


From: SmartMuffin | #054
Didn't read the topic. Just want to say that you're all a bunch of Communists.


Hey!

I'm like the anti-Communist!

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pjbasis
05/02/12 6:48:00 AM
#59:


From: Vlado | #045
I can. It's just fruitless.


I don't get it, fruitless to whom?

As long as I'm happy, that's all that matters.

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KingButz
05/02/12 6:49:00 AM
#60:


He straight out said he didn't read the topic. Why are you responding to him?

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pjbasis
05/02/12 6:51:00 AM
#61:


I'm encouraging him to read it.

I want someone to acknowledge and commend my pure capitalist ideals.

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Vlado
05/02/12 6:53:00 AM
#62:


pjbasis posted...
From: Vlado | #045
I can. It's just fruitless.
I don't get it, fruitless to whom?

As long as I'm happy, that's all that matters.

I wouldn't be happy with as little as you'd be happy with, that's all. Some people are happy to just be able to have dinner, for instance. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I certainly have higher standards than that.

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Ayuyu
05/02/12 6:54:00 AM
#63:


As long as I get enough money to pay my rent, taxes, food, internet and 200$ worth of entertainement a month I'm good.

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pjbasis
05/02/12 6:58:00 AM
#64:


From: Vlado | #062
I wouldn't be happy with as little as you'd be happy with, that's all. Some people are happy to just be able to have dinner, for instance. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I certainly have higher standards than that.


Haha alright. I would use "different" rather than "higher" but I'll take it.

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Mershaaay
05/02/12 7:23:00 AM
#65:


XFD if anyone agrees they are a f***ing baby

I would kill for a standard 40 hour week

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PartOfYourWorld
05/02/12 7:27:00 AM
#66:


How hard are you really working if you're posting on GameFAQs at this time of day. Being at work 40+ doesn't necessarily mean you're working 40+.

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Mershaaay
05/02/12 7:28:00 AM
#67:


PartOfYourWorld posted...
How hard are you really working if you're posting on GameFAQs at this time of day. Being at work 40+ doesn't necessarily mean you're working 40+.

Precisely

The majority of my normal day is spent pretending to work

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Takfloyd_mkII__
05/02/12 7:39:00 AM
#68:


Lol complaining about 40 hours

I often work 100 hour weeks and I don't even mind it.

Of course I also made a wise choice in profession.
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tcaz2
05/02/12 7:40:00 AM
#69:


Literally defending having less time to enjoy your life.

Again, yes you COULD work 40+ hour work weeks, but why would you want to? People in this topic make no sense.

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Vlado
05/02/12 7:41:00 AM
#70:


Mershaaay posted...
PartOfYourWorld posted...
How hard are you really working if you're posting on GameFAQs at this time of day. Being at work 40+ doesn't necessarily mean you're working 40+.

Precisely

The majority of my normal day is spent pretending to work

Well, yeah, but it's still not time you can fully use for yourself. I can't bust out my PSP and just play it here.

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neonreaper
05/02/12 7:41:00 AM
#71:


Takfloyd_mkII__ posted...
Lol complaining about 40 hours

I often work 100 hour weeks and I don't even mind it.

Of course I also made a wise choice in profession.

but now imagine your life outside of work was worth living

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Theon_Greyjoy
05/02/12 7:47:00 AM
#72:


tcaz2 posted...
Literally defending having less time to enjoy your life.

Again, yes you COULD work 40+ hour work weeks, but why would you want to? People in this topic make no sense.

Part of having a career with advancement opportunities. Job security makes me happy, and so does not having to worry about money.

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Mershaaay
05/02/12 7:48:00 AM
#73:


neonreaper posted...
Takfloyd_mkII__ posted...
Lol complaining about 40 hours

I often work 100 hour weeks and I don't even mind it.

Of course I also made a wise choice in profession.

but now imagine your life outside of work was worth living

LMFAO

neon on a roll lately

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Vlado
05/02/12 7:50:00 AM
#74:


Theon_Greyjoy posted...
tcaz2 posted...
Literally defending having less time to enjoy your life.

Again, yes you COULD work 40+ hour work weeks, but why would you want to? People in this topic make no sense.

Part of having a career with advancement opportunities. Job security makes me happy, and so does not having to worry about money.

Not true, it's not a requirement at all. At least in companies that aren't completely backwards, it's what you get done that counts, not how many hours you spend at work.

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Mershaaay
05/02/12 7:51:00 AM
#75:


For the record, I would LOVE to work ~30 hours a week. However, I also like not living at home, living in a safe and rather wealthy area, being able to travel, not worrying about bills too much, etc.

It's a trade-off that so far has been worth it. But my alternative is living with my parents and sleeping on a pull-out couch in their 1 bedroom house at age 24.

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Theon_Greyjoy
05/02/12 7:53:00 AM
#76:


Vlado posted...
Theon_Greyjoy posted...
tcaz2 posted...
Literally defending having less time to enjoy your life.

Again, yes you COULD work 40+ hour work weeks, but why would you want to? People in this topic make no sense.

Part of having a career with advancement opportunities. Job security makes me happy, and so does not having to worry about money.

Not true, it's not a requirement at all. At least in companies that aren't completely backwards, it's what you get done that counts, not how many hours you spend at work.

Well even though my job is salaried, our firm still puts an emphasis on billable hours because that's where our revenue comes from.

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Mershaaay
05/02/12 7:56:00 AM
#77:


Theon_Greyjoy posted...
Well even though my job is salaried, our firm still puts an emphasis on billable hours because that's where our revenue comes from.

DING DING DING

same with anyone in the "consulting" industry

not saying that is the way it should be, but that's the way the world works

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neonreaper
05/02/12 8:04:00 AM
#78:


Vlado posted...
Theon_Greyjoy posted...
tcaz2 posted...
Literally defending having less time to enjoy your life.

Again, yes you COULD work 40+ hour work weeks, but why would you want to? People in this topic make no sense.

Part of having a career with advancement opportunities. Job security makes me happy, and so does not having to worry about money.

Not true, it's not a requirement at all. At least in companies that aren't completely backwards, it's what you get done that counts, not how many hours you spend at work.

Billable hours are important for contract work. Your day should be a certain amount of billable hours at a certain productivity rate, for such a company. It's not so much "what you get done" but "what are you working on after that?"

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_Carlemagne_
05/02/12 8:07:00 AM
#79:


Deny

the issue is that now even 2 parent homes have to work two full time jobs + overtime just to make it.

However, I'd say that working over 40 is pretty bad unless you really want to/can.

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voltch
05/02/12 8:08:00 AM
#80:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek

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Metal_DK
05/02/12 8:10:00 AM
#81:


time management is the most important thing you can learn in college. Took me four years, but i eventually got it.

Jobs that you do 40 hours a week and give you the ability to pretty much forget about work when you arent there are fine. Hell id argue they give you more free time than being a full time college student.

Jobs that make you do things when you get home (ie grading homework if you are a teacher or somethin) would piss me off though

EDIT: also sometimes i believe that "hour of sleep before midnight is worth 2 hours of sleep after midnight" thing you always hear. So going to bed at like 10pm would give you the "8 hours" from 10pm to 4am.

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HeroicGammaRay
05/02/12 8:20:00 AM
#82:


d

of course working less is preferable but to say there's a 'nonexistent work-life balance' is laughable. on a 40-hour schedule you can easily get 5 hours of recreation per weekday (maybe 6 if you pick your job and/or place of residence so that you have a short commute), and then weekends are completely free

that said i'd personally function a lot better with less
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neonreaper
05/02/12 11:52:00 AM
#83:


Bartz to respond to your point, I think it's not so much the 80 or 40 hour work week compared to the past, it's the chores. Today's chores are almost a luxury - lawn mower, dishwasher, laundry machines, running water/heated water in the home, vacuum cleaners, etc.

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KingButz
05/02/12 12:47:00 PM
#84:


What was my point earlier? I've already forgotten.

I do think that a lot of modern chores are invented, though. Before lawn mowers, did many people have grass lawns? Were there a lot of carpets in homes before the vacuum cleaner? I think a lot of these chores exist because we have the tools to address them. Nobody wanted a grass lawn without an effective way to maintain it (lawn mower invented in the nineteenth century).

I don't know where I'm going with this.

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AlecTrevelyan006
05/02/12 12:57:00 PM
#85:


From: Boo_Mario | #001
At most workplaces, the 8 hours only includes time you actually spent working, excluding lunch breaks and commute time. Add that to the time you spend preparing for work (dressing up, doing make up, showering, etc.) and it's more like 10-11 hours total. And some people have the motivation to answer work emails/phone calls outside of office hours!

Add in 6-8 hours of sleep, breakfast/dinner, dishes/chores, etc. and you have might have 1-2 hours left for "recreational" activities such as TV, bedtime stories, other hobbies, sexual intercourse, etc.


If we take the maximum for each of these, it adds up to 21 hours.

Where do you live that has only 21 hour days?

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Swarles_Barkley
05/02/12 1:54:00 PM
#86:


I'm somewhat amazed by the consensus opinion in this topic. A 40-hour week is about the shortest you could realistically hope for. If I was able to find a well-paid, stimulating job that fit that schedule (which really is incredibly rare) I would be one of the luckiest people on the planet. How is it impossible to have a work-life balance at that rate when you easily have 5 hours of free time a day, on workdays?

I recommend everyone to read this article:

http://www.economist.com/node/21552539

It doesn't fit this discussion perfectly, and I'm not suggesting 40-hour work weeks are found necessarily in low-paying or menial jobs (or even that, depending on your outlook, there is anything wrong with that in the first place). But to think that working more than 40 hours a week will cause great stress and leave you unhappy is a little misguided, to say the least.

Wealth should be but a means to an end. What use is a lot of money if you don't try to improve the life of the common man with it?

You have a very narrow view on life if you really believe this. I applaud your altruism, but what someone does with the money he has earned is his business. If you want to spend your money to help the common man, more power to you. But I see plenty other uses of wealth.

How about being able to care for your family? Being able to send your kids to the best schools? Being able to live in a nice house or drive a nice car? Being able to take your girlfriend/wife to a restaurant occasionally, and to be able to buy her a pretty engagement ring?

Now personally I plan to donate a percentage of my salary to 2 charities and to the Catholic church. But the bigger portion, by far, is for my family and my progeny. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

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Vlado
05/02/12 1:58:00 PM
#87:


How about being able to care for your family? Being able to send your kids to the best schools? Being able to live in a nice house or drive a nice car? Being able to take your girlfriend/wife to a restaurant occasionally, and to be able to buy her a pretty engagement ring?

Now personally I plan to donate a percentage of my salary to 2 charities and to the Catholic church. But the bigger portion, by far, is for my family and my progeny. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I never said that shouldn't happen. We were talking, like, massive wealth, not merely having enough money to send your kids to great schools. There are certain prerequisites, you need a certain amount of money to provide yourself and your family with a quality life, but that only amounts to so much. Everything on top? Should go towards actually leaving a mark on this planet.

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Huff n puff 20
05/02/12 2:00:00 PM
#88:


C. 28/29 was perfect.

From: OmarsComin | #050
at some point I suspect we'll discard this notion of "everyone needs to work" as a social convention. it was essential at one point but not now.


That will require a communist system run by... well, something. God's viable, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms entirely. But certainly not humans capable of err. Until that's worked out, everyone needs to work.

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Swarles_Barkley
05/02/12 2:09:00 PM
#89:


Vlado posted...
I never said that shouldn't happen. We were talking, like, massive wealth, not merely having enough money to send your kids to great schools. There are certain prerequisites, you need a certain amount of money to provide yourself and your family with a quality life, but that only amounts to so much. Everything on top? Should go towards actually leaving a mark on this planet.

Do you recognize that you are being dogmatic and one-sided about this? Everything on top "should" go to wherever the hell you want it to go to. And you define leaving a mark on the planet as by having helped the common man. Again, a narrow definition.

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shadosneko
05/02/12 2:11:00 PM
#90:


I'm gonna have to go with false.

I woke up at 7, got to work at 8, got back home at 5, and then went to sleep around 12. Plenty of time to spend doing things, unless you really value playing several hours of games a day.

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Vlado
05/02/12 3:04:00 PM
#91:


Swarles_Barkley posted...
Vlado posted...
I never said that shouldn't happen. We were talking, like, massive wealth, not merely having enough money to send your kids to great schools. There are certain prerequisites, you need a certain amount of money to provide yourself and your family with a quality life, but that only amounts to so much. Everything on top? Should go towards actually leaving a mark on this planet.

Do you recognize that you are being dogmatic and one-sided about this? Everything on top "should" go to wherever the hell you want it to go to. And you define leaving a mark on the planet as by having helped the common man. Again, a narrow definition.

...no, it's not narrow at all. There are countless ways to achieve that.

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Swarles_Barkley
05/02/12 3:20:00 PM
#92:


Vlado posted...
Swarles_Barkley posted...
Vlado posted...
I never said that shouldn't happen. We were talking, like, massive wealth, not merely having enough money to send your kids to great schools. There are certain prerequisites, you need a certain amount of money to provide yourself and your family with a quality life, but that only amounts to so much. Everything on top? Should go towards actually leaving a mark on this planet.

Do you recognize that you are being dogmatic and one-sided about this? Everything on top "should" go to wherever the hell you want it to go to. And you define leaving a mark on the planet as by having helped the common man. Again, a narrow definition.

...no, it's not narrow at all. There are countless ways to achieve that.

Countless ways to help the common man, or countless ways to leave your mark on this planet? I agree with both, but you were implying the latter could be achieved only through the former, which I disagree with.

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Lopen
05/02/12 3:28:00 PM
#93:


People who are calling people who don't like long work weeks lazy are amusing.

There's a difference between not wanting to work long work weeks and being incapable. If you need to work 80 hour weeks to make ends meet? That was probably a result of poor life decisions on your part and now you're paying the price for them. If you're just doing it to get a bunch of money? You've got different priorities than people who choose to avoid those hours. That's pretty much all there is to it.

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CoolCly
05/02/12 3:43:00 PM
#94:


Nah, people who are saying a 40 hour work week is unreasonable are lazy. And that's all there is to it.



If you aren't interested in working more hours for money and don't need to, then you are free to work less hours. But the premise of this topic (which many people in this topic agree with) is that 40 hours are completely unacceptable and it's impossible to live a satisfying life working that much. Which is plain wrong. People here just don't realize how easy our lives have gotten.

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Lopen
05/02/12 4:03:00 PM
#95:


Eh I personally don't consider it lazy if your reasons are rooted in prioritizing. For a lot of people, working 40, much less 60 or 80 is not about capability or being exhausted or whatever. It's more about "does this extra money make up for losing that much of my social life and free time." I've worked 60 hour work weeks-- I'm capable of doing it. But I'd never do it unless I had to, because I'm financially well off and take jobs that pay well enough that part time is good enough to not only pay living expenses but make a lot of bank too, and just don't think that more extra money is worth that much at this point. And honestly? People who are working more than 40 hours a week and it's not simply to make ends meet? Unless they've got crazy good paying jobs, I'd probably say it's more worth your time to look into spending that extra time investing or developing more marketable skills or something even if you don't feel you need the free time.

If you say can have a healthy social life with enough personal time while working 80 hours a week-- I personally don't believe you. I think you're delusional and your definition of a "healthy" social life has been skewed by working 80 hours a week. 60 is doable with good time management, sure, but it's still sub optimal unless you have no friends and no hobbies.

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Boo_Mario
05/03/12 1:18:00 AM
#96:


From: Swarles_Barkley | #012
They'd have to be almost twice as productive to get the same amount of work done, though. Productivity is a relative concept - the amount of work you get done per unit of time (or money, usually). It says nothing of the total amount of work you're getting done.


Yup. And it sucks because supervisors aren't only concerned about your productivity; they also want you to be present at the office for X hours per day even if they're not micromanaging you or even interact with you at all over the course of a typical workday.

Otherwise, every programming job should have a work-from-home option, at least for non-critical dates (meetings, performance reviews, etc.) If you can get your job done, why do you have to show up in the office in a suit (or business casual attire) when doing so actually reduces your productivity (being neatly dressed won't help you code better.) Even meetings can be scheduled via teleconferencing. And there's always the threat of being fired if you underperform.

In the past IBM gave nearly all of its software engineers the work-from-home option. It's a shame newer IBM offices and other companies don't offer the same choices/benefits.

As for labour/hourly wage jobs, there's absolutely zero incentive to be productive because you get paid the same anyway. When I used to volunteer at a library for junior high school (LOL), I would sort/shelve 2X as many books as the slowest guy. Not only was I not compensated for it, I got assigned more work for the same # of hours, so by the end of my internship I slowed my pace down to be in line with everyone else's.
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Vlado
05/03/12 1:18:00 AM
#97:


Well said, Lopen.

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Blitzball fan? Try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Game reviews/articles by me: http://betweenlifeandgames.com
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SubDeity
05/03/12 1:25:00 AM
#98:


And this sort of topic is why some people vote Republican.

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SubDeity wants to vote for Calvin Coolidge. [Evil Republican]
Play Der Langrisser.
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Boo_Mario
05/03/12 1:25:00 AM
#99:


From: muddersmilk | #044
You will be lucky to be working only 40 hours (or often 50 hours) a week. Most of my friends work closer to 60 hours a week. Now that kills your work/life balance.


Just WHO are all these people working 60+ hour weeks? What are their occupations?

Investment banker? Take out the 1% chance they might make it all the way to Managing Director/Partner and start raking in 7 figures a year, who'd be willing to work those hours?

Startup founder? Take out the 0.01% chance they might be the next "Draw Something" or Instagram, who'd be willing to work those hours?

People generally don't work harder than their peers purely out of altruism or "passion." Otherwise, socialism wouldn't have failed.

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nosig
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Vlado
05/03/12 1:27:00 AM
#100:


Newsflash: socialism hasn't failed, quite the opposite. Example: Scandinavian countries.

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Blitzball fan? Try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Game reviews/articles by me: http://betweenlifeandgames.com
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