At most workplaces, the 8 hours only includes time you actually spent working, excluding lunch breaks and commute time. Add that to the time you spend preparing for work (dressing up, doing make up, showering, etc.) and it's more like 10-11 hours total. And some people have the motivation to answer work emails/phone calls outside of office hours!
Add in 6-8 hours of sleep, breakfast/dinner, dishes/chores, etc. and you have might have 1-2 hours left for "recreational" activities such as TV, bedtime stories, other hobbies, sexual intercourse, etc.
No wonder there are so many stress-related physical and mental health problems in the U.S.! The ideal workweek for a healthy work-life balance is 25-30 hours/week.
(I'm not including professions like "Wall Street financer" or "startup company founder" or "health care professional," where workers voluntarily trade long hours for potentially lucrative salaries. The standard workday is 8 hours/day for even the least glamorous of occupations, and that's simply unacceptable.)
Duh, work isn't really about creating value. There's been at least one study showing that workers are actually most productive with 25-30 hour workweeks, with knowledge workers having even lower hours of productivity per week. It's about showing off to everyone how hardworking you are.
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From: CoolCly | #005 D, many people work much longer hours than that.
I honestly think culture today is a little spoiled and don't realize just how cushy the 35-44 hour work weeks are.
(I'm not including professions like "Wall Street financer" or "startup company founder" or "health care professional," where workers voluntarily trade long hours for potentially lucrative salaries. The standard workday is 8 hours/day for even the least glamorous of occupations, and that's simply unacceptable.)
Boo_Mario posted... (I'm not including professions like "Wall Street financer" or "startup company founder" or "health care professional," where workers voluntarily trade long hours for potentially lucrative salaries. The standard workday is 8 hours/day for even the least glamorous of occupations, and that's simply unacceptable.)
What about professors that work way over 40 hours without a huge amount of compensation
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From: LordoftheMorons | #008 Boo_Mario posted... (I'm not including professions like "Wall Street financer" or "startup company founder" or "health care professional," where workers voluntarily trade long hours for potentially lucrative salaries. The standard workday is 8 hours/day for even the least glamorous of occupations, and that's simply unacceptable.)
What about professors that work way over 40 hours without a huge amount of compensation
And they shouldn't. Realistically, teaching should be one of the most lucrative jobs, instead of one of the LEAST.
ToukaOone posted... Duh, work isn't really about creating value. There's been at least one study showing that workers are actually most productive with 25-30 hour workweeks, with knowledge workers having even lower hours of productivity per week. It's about showing off to everyone how hardworking you are.
They'd have to be almost twice as productive to get the same amount of work done, though. Productivity is a relative concept - the amount of work you get done per unit of time (or money, usually). It says nothing of the total amount of work you're getting done.
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I intentionally try for part time jobs if I can. It's not so much about "I can't do 40 or more a week" as much as "I don't want to do that much." What use is a ton of money if you don't have the time to use it. I mean there's some "planning for the future" stuff but really.
Obviously for some people it's a luxury to shoot for part time but if you can afford it I say work the shorter weeks.
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30-35 would be better. 40 is the absolute limit, basically. If you put in overtime on top of those 40, you're doing too much for your employer. Start thinking of yourself.
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D. I average 60 from January to mid April and I'm still able to get done everything I need to, and go out on Saturday nights. Gotta get used to it, waste less time on the internet, etc.
The rest of the year is awesome, 4 weeks vacation aww yeah
Yeah, good time management can go a long way, and I'm learning this the hard way - I've simply got no other choice because otherwise I'd just have to start giving stuff up... But 55-60 hours (when you add lunch, the occasional overtime and commute) a week is still A LOT. And that's every week, save for vacations.
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I didn't drop down to 40 hours until I became a parent. With a 30 minute lunch and 90 minute total commute, an 8 hour day is 10 hours planned. Shower/breakfast is about half an hour. General looking around the internet before work, probably another half hour. So 11 hours from waking up, I'd be home and ready to do whatever. If we toss in 8 hours of bedtime, that's 5 hours somewhat free - when I wasn't a parent, dinner was whatever I wanted it to be. Can't really count that as infringing on your free time. What chores do you really need to do - dishes you should do every day, laundry you can do weekly, and most other things can wait until the weekend. 40 hour work week = tons of free time
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If you spend 2-3 hours dressing up, showering, make up or whatever you're doing it wrong. Or you're a woman.
Stress related and mental health problems are less the cause of how many hours we work a week and more the cause of how western society receives ambition, self-image etc
If you're really in need of time you can ALWAYS cut shower time and breakfast in half or more. There literally is no excuse for 1-2 hour shower/breakfast time. I do it a lot myself but it's because I'm in college and not that in need of time. If I had a 40+ hour work week I would definitely cut on that first.
A bunch of lazy f***s in this topic. The 40 hour work week is a modern luxury that your ancestors could only wish for. A hundred years ago, a thousand years ago people would toil and sweat from sunrise to sunset and thank their god for the opportunity they had to eat that day.
Even if you spend 13 hours during your work week working/getting ready for work/whatever, and 8 hours sleeping, that is still nearly 50 hours a week to do other things... which is shockingly MORE TIME THAN YOU SPEND WORKING.
Work 80 hour weeks before you complain about your cushy 40 hour job.
A bunch of lazy f***s in this topic. The 40 hour work week is a modern luxury that your ancestors could only wish for. A hundred years ago, a thousand years ago people would toil and sweat from sunrise to sunset and thank their god for the opportunity they had to eat that day.
Even if you spend 13 hours during your work week working/getting ready for work/whatever, and 8 hours sleeping, that is still nearly 50 hours a week to do other things... which is shockingly MORE TIME THAN YOU SPEND WORKING.
Work 80 hour weeks before you complain about your cushy 40 hour job.
this
the only real problem with the situation right now is that we're moving in reverse back towards the days of our ancestors because the wealthy elite want everyone beneath them to literally be slaves, but at least we're no where near there yet
yeah, you CAN work more and spend less time doing other stuff...but why? you will be more stressed and less happy. the workload can either be like half the people working their ass off for 80 hours a week while half the people are unemployed, or everyone can share the burden and work more reasonable amounts.
From: Liquid Wind | #029 the only real problem with the situation right now is that we're moving in reverse back towards the days of our ancestors because the wealthy elite want everyone beneath them to literally be slaves, but at least we're no where near there yet
My answer to this is more "try to be wealthy"
I'm not so kind a person I would care for the state of the common man if my life was luxurious.
pjbasis posted... From: Liquid Wind | #029 the only real problem with the situation right now is that we're moving in reverse back towards the days of our ancestors because the wealthy elite want everyone beneath them to literally be slaves, but at least we're no where near there yet My answer to this is more "try to be wealthy"
I'm not so kind a person I would care for the state of the common man if my life was luxurious.
That's sad.
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From: pjbasis | #032 My answer to this is more "try to be wealthy"
I'm not so kind a person I would care for the state of the common man if my life was luxurious.
and many people think the same as you
it's human nature
it does not mean we should strive towards it though because as much as people like you exist, they are also the first one to bawl and cry for justice when life hits them hard
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Vlado posted... 30-35 would be better. 40 is the absolute limit, basically. If you put in overtime on top of those 40, you're doing too much for your employer. Start thinking of yourself.
It's not like people voluntarily do it. Most jobs you have to work over 40 hours.
pjbasis posted... From: Liquid Wind | #029 the only real problem with the situation right now is that we're moving in reverse back towards the days of our ancestors because the wealthy elite want everyone beneath them to literally be slaves, but at least we're no where near there yet My answer to this is more "try to be wealthy"
I'm not so kind a person I would care for the state of the common man if my life was luxurious.
From: VincentLauw | #034 it does not mean we should strive towards it though because as much as people like you exist, they are also the first one to bawl and cry for justice when life hits them hard
I think you're thinking about people that feel entitled to their wealth.
I take a more...sportsman-like attitude. I do my best, and then I accept my loss or victory.
Currently working 10am-5pm at an internship. Internship is just under 2 hours from me. I think if I had to do this for longer than the week I would be looking to move to cut down the commute, but 7 hours/day with a half-hour lunch is fine for me. I’d even be fine if I started at 9 or 9:30, if I lived closer. I woke up at 7am yesterday, got back at 7pm, and went to bed around 11:30pm. That’s 4 and a half hours of leisure on the whole which is a rubbish balance.
However my other internship is 9:30-4:30 and I’m only 20 minutes out and I think that’s absolutely fine.
From: Liquid Wind | #039 they're systematically breaking down social mobility, this works now to some extent, it won't work in 100 years(maybe a lot earlier than that)
Guess I just gotta get in before the lock then!
From: Vlado | #040 What use is a lot of money if you don't try to improve the life of the common man with it?
Uh...I mean, there's no problem with thinking that way, but you can't understand the individualist perspective either?
But here's the thing, more and more jobs are requiring more than 40 hours of work. Just about any salary position and a huge number of hourly ones in tons of different fields.
You will be lucky to be working only 40 hours (or often 50 hours) a week. Most of my friends work closer to 60 hours a week. Now that kills your work/life balance.
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Wealth should be but a means to an end. What use is a lot of money if you don't try to improve the life of the common man with it?
This is my general attitude, honestly. If I ever become rich, I see no reason to not try to use the money to help people somehow. I mean, I would definitely enjoy the money I made, and I have no problem with rich people living in luxury. I just think that helping people is simply the right thing to do if you're able to do so.
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I'm all for helping out those who need it. But as for helping out everyone...just take a look at this topic and you see a lot of people who don't want to work hard and would rather complain about the system. I have no interest in helping out people like that.
in this day and age, I don't even think having everyone fully employed at 40 hrs/week is reasonable. it's kind of silly with the giant upspikes in productivity and wealth since the industrial era that people are still by and large putting in at least 40 hour workweeks. it has nothing to do with people being lazy or whatever, there's just not that much work to be done when most of it can be automated or sped up by technology.
at some point I suspect we'll discard this notion of "everyone needs to work" as a social convention. it was essential at one point but not now.