Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 194: Ultimate X. Free TV. 24 Hours Of Hype.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm trying not to hold it to that standard.

I'm basically comparing it to Over the Limit and concluding that I much preferred Over the Limit.

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Well it's not so much 'holding it to that standard' as much as 'comparing it to nationally televised US wrestling', which at least I think is fair.

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I'm taking into account their different mindsets too.

TNA right now is in the midst of building something special and laying foundations and continuing to top itself.

WWE right now is trying desperately to tread water until the suspensions are over, the injuries are healed, and Brock and Rock come back.

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WWE right now is trying desperately to tread water until the suspensions are over

Pfft, yeah, you're right, Randy Orton will TOTALLY solve all their problems...

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Jericho would have solved some problems last night!

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So I hear Ziggler's merch sold out at NWO. Jersey REALLY likes him. Cause his shirts kinda suck.

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Whatever...

Yeah I'd love to support Ziggler but his merch is awful.

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http://www.wwe.com/videos/john-laurinaitis-gets-consoled-by-various-wwe-superstars-wwecom-exclusive-june-1-26031192

I'm not even sure what I just watched.

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Ziggler was one of the 3 most over guys last night. So yeah, not surprised.

Also everyone forgets the tag match, despite it being the second or third best match.

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I can't express how happy I am that The Prime Time Playas won.

That's a real tag team I can get behind

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Tag match was the 4th best match IMO, and it wasn't a BAD match, it just had no place on PPV.

If you're gonna do that match randomly with no build you do it on Raw.

If you're gonna do that match on PPV it needs build.

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Hey now, it had that preshow buildup!

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Really Jakyl? The tag division actually gets time and you are poo pooing it?

HHH's promo should have been 10 minutes longer then I guess? Further evidence Jakyl is Future Russo

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The ACTUAL TAG TITLES can't even get on a PPV, so a #1 contender match for those titles certainly has no business being there.

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They need to establish the division, they will have time to use it on TV in a month.

Now they just need to get the US title off Santino and onto a wrestler. Or let Santino wrestle

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It's funny you call JaKyL Russo and then your very next post go 'use PPV to build to TV', which is one of Russo's big things.

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I called him Future Russo ...

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If Future Russo believes that matches that happen on PPV get build, then damn Future Russo has figured out how wrestling works.

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I'm not at all against the Tag Division getting time. This is really one of the smaller nitpicks about the PPV, but it's still backwards.

Have that match ON RAW, and then have the TITLE defense on PPV. OMG MAGIC.

Yes I know Truth is out but you gotta get the belts off them somehow. If it's PTP vs. Kofi in a handicap or Kofi/Ryder or whoever it still works out perfectly.

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Billy and Chuck is what you obviously need.

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What if Kofi and Truth don't want to give up the belts during the injury? Better hire someone to protect them... like the APA.

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ninkendo posted...

I can't express how happy I am that The Prime Time Playas won.

That's a real tag team I can get behind

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

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From: Jakyl25 | #419
I'm not at all against the Tag Division getting time. This is really one of the smaller nitpicks about the PPV, but it's still backwards.

Have that match ON RAW, and then have the TITLE defense on PPV. OMG MAGIC.

Yes I know Truth is out but you gotta get the belts off them somehow. If it's PTP vs. Kofi in a handicap or Kofi/Ryder or whoever it still works out perfectly.
This is the thing that bugged me more than anything. This was just so clearly something they came up with on like Friday and put on the PPV.

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that APA always pounding ass

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Black Cena getting a oush blows my mind.

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Wait, Truth is injured? When did that happen/for how long? I missed that one.


.... please tell me he's not wellness'd

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Broke his foot, didn't he?

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From: Jakyl25 | #419

Have that match ON RAW, and then have the TITLE defense on PPV.

Good example: Edge and Christian won a tag team turmoil on Raw (or something like that), and faced the New Age Outlaws at Unforgiven '99 in a losing effort.
Bad example: Cryme Tyme wins a tag team turmoil at New Year's Revolution 2007, and NEVER got the title shot (no, SummerSlam 2009 doesn't count).

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From: ZeroSignal620 | #429

Bad example: Cryme Tyme wins a tag team turmoil at New Year's Revolution 2007, and NEVER got the title shot (no, SummerSlam 2009 doesn't count).

Nobody offhandedly mentioned that their title shot expired, like Cole did last night regarding Primo & Epico's rematch clause...

What about Brooke Hogan finding the ultimate loophole in the very concept of a rematch clause that should now render them all completely and totally useless?

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From: SmartMuffin | #431
What about Brooke Hogan finding the ultimate loophole in the very concept of a rematch clause that should now render them all completely and totally useless?
Which was?


Also, I think we might see PtP win the titles tonight. Just a hunch.

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She says Gail has a rematch clause, but her contract doesn't say WHEN the rematch is, so as the authority figure, Brooke gets to decide that part, implication being that it'll either be a really long time, never, or at a particularly inopportune time for Gail...

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To be completely fair here, WWE has (almost) always held firm to that too (barring some BLATANT examples like the Corre immediately "cashing in" their rematch clause against Cena and Miz).

Rematch clauses are not MitB briefcase. You contractually must receive one if you choose to exercise it, but you do not get to mandate when it happens.

WWE has the convenient rule explaining that there's a 30 day statute of limitations on rematch clauses (which was actually referenced last night!). TNA to my knowledge has said no such firm thing.

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Except that if that's the rule, why don't heel authority figures disallow faces from using their rematches all the time? Or vice versa. That's certainly what Brooke implied she was going to do (although I'm guessing it doesn't actually happen).

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Also, didn't we just have a big long deal with Cody Rhodes deciding to use his clause at No Way Out? I feel like usually, the assumption is that the guy with the clause gets to decide when to use it. It's not like MITB in that you can use it at a seconds notice, but generally speaking, you can use it whenever its practical.

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Because it has to happen within 30 days. And not like "Ha ha I just won't give you one for a month and then it will expire" but rather "My contract says you HAVE to give me one within 30 days so when is it?"

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I admit that heels use words and phrases that IMPLY that they chose the rematch clause date, but I think it could be easily handwaved as the authority figure choosing the PPV as the best opportunity in most cases to maximize good business and the heel then cackling along like he masterminded the whole thing to give an aura of control.

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I'm also pretty sure that when Hardy lost the WWE title at the Royal Rumble to Edge, Vickie gave him his rematch - but in an Elimination Chamber >_>

In any case...

Except that if that's the rule, why don't heel authority figures disallow faces from using their rematches all the time? Or vice versa. That's certainly what Brooke implied she was going to do (although I'm guessing it doesn't actually happen).

If you're going to do this there's a laundry list of things you can say. "Why do heels not just take DQs to retain all the time" "Why do heels not just take face family members hostage to win I Quit matches", etc etc.

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I am really going the extra mile here to defend a wrestling trope that I truly despise.

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If you're going to do this there's a laundry list of things you can say. "Why do heels not just take DQs to retain all the time" "Why do heels not just take face family members hostage to win I Quit matches", etc etc.

Well, they actually DO those things fairly often. Typically speaking, a heel takes a DQ finish to retain, and then the next match is booked with some sort of no-DQ stip to prevent it from happening again.

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SmartMuffin posted...

If you're going to do this there's a laundry list of things you can say. "Why do heels not just take DQs to retain all the time" "Why do heels not just take face family members hostage to win I Quit matches", etc etc.

Well, they actually DO those things fairly often. Typically speaking, a heel takes a DQ finish to retain, and then the next match is booked with some sort of no-DQ stip to prevent it from happening again.

THEY'VE GOT THE HEEL RIGHT WHERE THEY WANT HIM! IN A SITUATION WHERE HE CAN LEGALLY CHEAT!

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Honky Tonk Man used DQs to stay champ for two years

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Right, well, I think you know that I've always been all over that too.

I think in this reign alone, Bobby Roode has overcome that sort of thinking on like three separate occasions. "This match is no DQ! That cannot POSSIBLY benefit him in any way, can it Tazz?"

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From: Jakyl25 | #438
I admit that heels use words and phrases that IMPLY that they chose the rematch clause date, but I think it could be easily handwaved as the authority figure choosing the PPV as the best opportunity in most cases to maximize good business and the heel then cackling along like he masterminded the whole thing to give an aura of control.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to say that Cody got approval for his NWO rematch before revealing it on TV, either. Like he's backstage with Ace and says "OK, I have a rematch and I'm going to use it at No Way Out. Is that OK?" and Ace is like "sure". PPV Paychecks also exist in kayfabe so it actually makes sense for all 3 parties (competitors/auth figure) to wait until then, from a moneymaking perspective, right?

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That was back in the Bronze age, we're talking Modern times daddy-o!

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XIII_rocks posted...

From: Jakyl25 | #438
I admit that heels use words and phrases that IMPLY that they chose the rematch clause date, but I think it could be easily handwaved as the authority figure choosing the PPV as the best opportunity in most cases to maximize good business and the heel then cackling along like he masterminded the whole thing to give an aura of control.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to say that Cody got approval for his NWO rematch before revealing it on TV, either. Like he's backstage with Ace and says "OK, I have a rematch and I'm going to use it at No Way Out. Is that OK?" and Ace is like "sure". PPV Paychecks also exist in kayfabe so it actually makes sense for all 3 parties (competitors/auth figure) to wait until then, from a moneymaking perspective, right?

That's kinda what I was getting at. In most cases it makes sense to wait for the PPV anyway so of course the heel is gonna ACT like it was all his idea because they're heels and their egos are massive.

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Well, they actually DO those things fairly often. Typically speaking, a heel takes a DQ finish to retain, and then the next match is booked with some sort of no-DQ stip to prevent it from happening again.

But not often enough. And most of the time they wait until the match is several minutes in before they do it. Why not kick them in the nuts straight away?

I could totally see a heel GM "pulling a Brodus" with a face's rematch clause though. "hmm, he's got a slight knee tweak, your rematch will have to wait until next week" *repeat a few times* "oh, your 30 days are up. Sorry. Here's a #1 contenders match!"

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Well, you gotta keep in mind, heels are ALSO overwhelmingly arrogant. I figure they usually actually think they can win through legit means, and then resort to DQ when it becomes they're about to lose, they resort to DQ tactics. But most of them also have some modicum of pride about being a better wrestler. "Title at all costs" is generally kept to a few specific people, not all heels in general.

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XIII_rocks posted...

But not often enough. And most of the time they wait until the match is several minutes in before they do it. Why not kick them in the nuts straight away?

Depending on the heel this can still work. If you know you can at least last 5 minutes with the guy why not feel things out first? Maybe he's having an off night or you can pick apart an injury for a legitimate win, and get him out of your hair for good instead of having to deal with him again in a Lumberjack/Streetfight/SteelCage/Bra&Panties match

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