Board 8 > SeabassDebeste finishes Buffy the Vampire Slayer and its spinoff [spoilers]

(+) Yeah! (+)

I can't remember if you said you were going to read the comics or not.

But Angel comic spoilers.

Fred's soul being destroyed has been retconned.
---

My Immortal posted...

I can't remember if you said you were going to read the comics or not.

But Angel comic spoilers.

Fred's soul being destroyed has been retconned.

That was more or less going to happen in the show if it got another season, from what I understand. Probably where they got the idea from.
---

I love when Angel's giving that speech about how even Knox is worth saving, and then Wesley just shoots him dead.

"Were you even listening???"
---

haha, asshole psycho wes so good
---

My Immortal posted...

I can't remember if you said you were going to read the comics or not.

But[...]

This reminds me, I've been tinkering around with the idea of doing a readthrough topic on those. Well. some of them. The Origin, Fray, Tales of the Vampires/Slayers, After the Fall, and then all the S8-11 stuff. Not sure there'd be a lot of interest but it could be fun, and it's been a while since I read any (and I've not read past S9 anyway).
---

I'd follow it.
---

muddersmilk posted...

I'd follow it.

I've also only read S9 though, and then have used Wikis to know what else has been happening.
---

Argh. No notes on this one. Let's get it out and then we'll be better in the future.

ANGEL - Season 5, Episode 17

Recap: Seeking to foil the senior partners' plans (whatever they are), Angel attempts to extort Eve - who's being chased by a young Adam Baldwin. Eve informs us that Lindsey is the one who really knows the senior partners - so Angel's Avengers (lmao) go to a suburban Hell dimension to rescue Soccer Dad Lindsey. The cost: Gunn has to stay there. The result: Eve is caught by Adam Baldwin... who asks her politely to sign a form transferring her W&H liaison responsibilities to Adam Baldwin instead.

This episode can effectively be renamed 'Angel and Spike fuck around - also ft. Gunn, Eve, and Lindsey.' Also THAT NEW THEME SONG IS MESMERIZING GIVE ME MORE.

It's hardly original to call the suburbs 'hell.' It's not something I've personally found to be true of the suburbs - certainly not the uniformity that's displayed here. That said, the monotony is pretty hilarious, combined with the ball-and-chain wife and the horrifying repetitiveness. It's not often that Angel has a life metaphor the way Buffy did, but it's kinda great here. My favorite visual gag is when amid the gunfire from the mailman outside and the wife inside, the kid comes down the stairs... and immediately starts firing at the good guys, too. It's obvious it's gonna happen but I still cracked up actually seeing it.

I don't know that we needed closure on Eve and Lindsey like this, but it's nice to see two grey charactres somewhat redeemed in the end without turning into nice guys. Lindsey was an asshole to Angel earlier this season, but as always it was, that didn't undo the fact that he had a conscience for the big picture. Eve was a smarmy slimeball enabler, but expose her, and she's just a scared kitten.

I also love the reiteration of the 'home office' theme that Holland pushed from Season 2. There's no 'big event Apocalypse,' sneers Lindsey - the Apocalypse has always been happening. And with Angel at the helm instead of manning the guns, he's already playing for the wrong team. Now granted, I feel like the moral ambiguity angle of Angel running W&H has been somewhat overblown - Angel himself has not really compromised as W&H's leader; as Gunn points out, the net good done unto the world seems to have increased - but this theme will undoubtedly loom larger and larger into the finale of the season (and the series). Hype.

As for Illyria's scenes - Wesley is mostly not a lot of fun at the moment as Mr. Jaded Cynical Guy. Illyria hasn't done much and is still finding herself, but the physical presence is enough for now. As we enter the endgame of the series she'll need to step it up.

---

* That initial meeting scene, with Angel waiting for anyone to show up, is fantastic. There's dead silence. Then Harmony walks in and, in lieu of 'Previously on Angel,' proceeds to list off exactly where everyone is, and why. Perfect exposition. A5 Harmony GOAT Harmony. Oh, and then Spike comes in and cracks open a beer and demands to be more than just recon. A5 Spike GOAT Spike, too.

* Lorne ain't taking this so well.

* Goddamn, Gunn. It's a cool, Prometheus-like punishment that he faces. In the span of 24 episodes or so we've lost Cordy (officially), Connor (yesss), Fred, and now Gunn. It's probably the lightest season of Angel by visuals, but the heavy hits are coming.
---

(EDIT TO ABOVE)

Just remembered that Illyria referenced the world with only shrimp.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

(EDIT TO ABOVE)

Just remembered that Illyria referenced the world with only shrimp.

Always nice to see some continuity.

Also, as a sidenote, Mercedes McNab is now a series regular. A bit late for that, huh?
---

I can't believe I didn't include the new opening credits anywhere in my post. I literally watched it three times out of hype. But yeah, Harmony was there in Season 1 of Buffy.

When Adam Baldwin showed up at W&H I really was a little scared for her!

... alright, now I'm sad when I realize that I was gonna talk about how many people Harmony outlived - but the most important one (by far) is Cordelia. :/
---

She was there before season 1, in the unaired pilot! I believe she's actually the longest-serving cast member, since Angel wasn't in that version. Pretty sure I read somewhere that she was made a regular as a kind of thank you for that, to boost her own resume a little in return for all the years she'd given them.

I always get a kick out of seeing a younger her in the Addams Family movies.
---

Makes sense. Speaking of Whedon actors in this episode, I refer to Adam Baldwin as being 'young' here, even though he's obviously older than he was in Firefly. That's because I know him from Chuck, which started in 2008 or so. (And in fairness, he's made up to look a lot older in Chuck.)
---

'He'll be fine.'
'Whereas we got shot and beat up by a juiced up S&M demon. Thanks for asking.'
---

Angel S5 GOAT Angel.
---

Damn.

He is well-dressed.
---

ANGEL - Season 5, Episode 18

Recap: Connor shows up at Wolfram and Hart - still memory-wiped - having been exposed by the demon Cyvus Vail. Vail, who was the reality-warper contracted by Wolfram to begin with, demands that Connor slay Sahjahn. Wesley goes poking at the reality warp and breaks the seal for him and Connor. The old memories allow Connor to take out Sahjahn, but he chooses nonetheless to go back to his quiet life.

'OH FUCK IT'S CONNOR.'

Thankfully, memory-wiped Connor is fucking hilarious. His haircut is more palatable, and he's so much less angsty and friendlier. The enjoyability of memory-wiped Connor essentially reaffirms what was so wrong with A4: when everyone is grim all the time, things become a drag rather than dynamic, and each allegedly dramatic moment loses impact as a result. Here, we have delight - 'Oh my God, you almost broke that guy in half... THAT WAS AWESOME!' - which sharpens the bittersweet flavor of his loss of innocence in departure.

Here, the show is able to poke fun at itself. It's magnificently fun. 'I... guess it's the outfit. I've always had a thing for older women.' Connor confides in Angel, who mutters, 'They were supposed to fix that.' If you have to call back to the worst subplot in Buffyverse history... yeah, that'll do it. We follow the father-son duo as they walk and talk through the halls of Wolfram and Hart - it's like we're watching House M.D. or The West Wing, with Connor interviewing Angel the whole time. 'Demons, vampires, doctors with claws... and I'm some sort of... superhero.' *pause* 'Okay!'

These last few episodes have really brought to the limelight the fact that Wolfram and Hart is a fantasy. That's what made Season 5 so fun - it feels like a magical escape. Near-limitless resources - but everything comes with strings attached. And sometimes, we tug too hard at those strings.

But here's the thing: Wolfram and Hart hasn't changed who these guys are, or their mission. That's what the Cordy episode was about, right? Angel felt like he had lost his way, but it's only because he's wearing the shackles of the evil law firm that it feels that way. Identity comes up big in this episode due to the nature of the reality warp. Angel's 'condition' for accepting the W&H position is coming home to roost, and specifically, Wesley - prompted by the ever-impenetrable Illyria - is questioning who this 'leader' really is. And of course, once he rediscovers his lost memories, we experience the ultimate irony: that perhaps he should really have been questioning who he is.

'Does this now make you Wesley?' asks Illyria. The show offers no concrete answer to this, because it's complex. Truth is important, but Wesley has now made so many actions without it. What does it mean that he separated Angel from his son, two years, a career change, four lost partners including a love interest, and two mind-fucks later? Are we the things we've done, if we no longer remember them, or no longer would make the same choices?

Aside from Angel and Connor attempting to atone for S4, the other source of entertainment this episode is Illyria's subplot of beating the shit out of Spike. ('Testing her may be difficult without someone getting hurt.' / 'We'll make Spike do it.' / 'Good.') We do learn one thing about her: 'I enjoy hurting you.' She also either can read emotions ('You reek of frustration - it curls off you like smoke') or has just inherited a human sense of smell ('Actually, love, we call that scotch. Twelve-year Lagavulin if I'm not mistaken. Good choice.')
---

---

* Cyvus Vail has an awesome name.

* In other demon news, Sahjahn's still fun. Not exactly a ton of screen time, but he acquits himself well in his death. (And I love that this bit of continuity is indeed enforced - expected it in Season 4.) 'You're making a good case for the whole concept of free will.'

* Gunn wholeheartedly rejects Adam Baldwin's offer to return... without even hearing it. I think Gunn does return, but he's done compromising with Wolfram. Sad way to go.

*

Illyria: In my time, a leader would punish your insolence with death.
Wesley: We aren't being insolent, Illyria.
Spike: I am.

Speaking of which, it's pretty hype when Illyria points out that Fred's memories were tampered with.

* Is it just me, or does Illyria give Harmony's body the once-over this episode? Probably just the way Illyria looks at everyone, I guess.
---

"No touching my clipboard!"
---

Man this topic is really making me want to rewatch Angel Season 5.
---

That can only be seen as a positive outcome of this topic!
---

I really feel bad for that one random security guard that Adam Baldwin murders in the Eve Gets Fired episode. Like, if you're there to fire her and not kill her, why you gotta kill this poor schmuck, man?
---

Yeah, that was hilariously mean to establish his credentials. And so unnecessary - just look at how well dressed the guy is!
---

ANGEL - Season 5, Episode 19

Recap: Illyria rescues Gunn, but Angel is getting more and more agitated by the walking Old One. He assigns Wesley to research how to Kill Ill. He devises a Large Ray Gun for the purpose, but Illyria manages to see it before it even gets built, because she's leaking power and jumping through time. The advance knowledge allows her to kill all of Team Angel before they can kill her, but the time flashes enable an alternate timeline's Angel to latch on to her - and for Wesley to use his Large Ray Gun not to kill Illyria, but to stabilize her. Angel decides to incorporate Fred... and to play for power.

Okay, so there's the Illyria stuff this episode, which is all pretty neat. The most monotonous part is where she's droning on to Angel about how soft he is, how sentimental, how humans are ants and power is power and blah blah blah blah blah. It's all pretty typical stuff, and I guess it's indicative of her growing insanity, since she's shown clear signs before of wanting to integrate. The most interesting part about Illyria, by far, is that she's actually bothered by the fact that Wesley

And then Illyria is de-powered, and it looks like we're headed back to status quo. Morality will reign supreme; we're done blabbing about power lust and whatever. The episode's biggest subplot centers around Illyria's collateral damage breaking out Gunn, which has turned the City of Angel into Wolfram's least profitable branch. Getting back on track means appeasing the Fell Brethren demon cult by having the pregnant woman they're worshiping hand over her child. The demons treat her hilariously well, doting all over her like aunts and big sisters and hair stylists (despite all being male) - except that as the rehabilitating Gunn notes, they intend to eat the baby at age thirteen.

At the end of the episode, Angel notes that maybe Illyria was right about focusing a little more on power. He stops Gunn's argument with the Fell Brethren, walks into the room, announces he's 'serving our clients' ... and closes the door.

HOLY SHIT WHAT?

The shock may come on especially strong because of the way the season has been set up. Angel has seemed to grow further from what Wolfram wants him to do as the season has worn on. I thought it might have been a one-off in the last episode, but he's already gone back to leather trenchcoats over the suit jackets he was rocking in the first half of the season. It matches with Gunn, who's also gone from impeccable suits to his aggressively non-corporate hoodie and jeans. We know that Wolfram thinks that they're winning the Apocalypse with Angel. So we're moving away from that, right?

Wrong.

He's wearing down again. Hard. Even if this is just a ploy, an innocent baby is being handed over for ritual slaughter. Let's roll..
---

---

* Wesley is FREAKING OUT in his office. The whole Illyria thing is not doing his brain favors.

* 'But you got her on a leash, right?' / 'No... NO... She's monumentally self-possessed... still thinks she's a god-king of the universe.' / 'So she's like a TV star.' / 'No, nothing that bad.'

* Lorne trying to sneak on Illyria in an extremely loud suit, sunglasses, and a hat is adorable. 'Angel-Ears! this is Secret Demon!' And on Adam Baldwin: 'Well I'll tell you what - still like him better than Eve.'

* Spike on the plan with Illyria: 'Are we talking pasture, or slaughterhouse?'

* 'I'm sure we make a lot from cancer.' / 'Yes. The patent-holder is a client.'

* 'The partners know her, Wesley.' So the partners are not behind Knox and the Evil Doctor unleashing Illyria... and there's no way Illyria doesn't play a role in the endgame.

* I love the outright antagonism behind Angel and Illyria. Lorne attempts to mediate. 'You gotta keep your thingy on for this to work, okay?' - Angel swipes Lorne's hat off - 'Oh that's mature.'

* Wesley, on when he was going to let Angel know about the Big Ray Gun: 'We weren't. Spike and I were going to handle it.' / 'We're motivated go-getters!'

* One thing I love about Hamilton - the way he composes himself with his fingers neatly forming a triangle. But for his body posture being so upright, I'm reminded of Angel from the early Buffy seasons.

* Seriously though, holy shit that ending.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

The most interesting part about Illyria, by far, is that she's actually bothered by the fact that Wesley

Uh oh, you musta got caught in one of those time rifts!
---

couldn't point that out while i could still edit, huh...!

that should read, when wesley "betrayed" her - illyria herself claims to be above attachments, but somehow she's bothered on a personal level that he tried to do something that would have wiped her out
---

continues... tonight?!
---

ANGEL - Season 5, Episode 20

Recap: Angel and Spike fly to Italy when they find out that Buffy is associated with a vampire known as the Immortal, whom they've dealt with in the past. Shenanigans ensue.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I kind of hate this episode.

It's got a lot of the right ingredients for a good one - a slightly meta tale, tons of Angel and Spike interactions, and devastatingly hot Italian women. It's delightfully whimsical and lighthearted, and it's a breather before what's undoubtedly going to be very heavy material in the finale. It's clear as soon as Angel and Spike take off that we're never actually seeing Buffy this episode, which is both frustrating and funny.

The episode also features Angel and Spike interacting really stupidly in ways that I don't particularly believe. They make a whole bunch of comments to the effect of 'Aww shucks, we used to be rivals for this girl, and we're just sooooo in love with her we'll do anything, and we both suck!' Part of what makes Angel/Spike so compelling is that they refuse to acknowledge being like the other. There are times where this shows through - 'ours is a forever love!' proclaims Angel, amid references to the 'cookie' metaphor - but they feel shout-out-y and fanservice-y and not genuine.

It's cringe-worthy when Spike asks if 'we' can just put Buffy in a box like they did with the basement killer. I mean, it's funny when Angel replies 'I don't think she'd let us - I mean, she's pretty strong' - but it just doesn't feel right. Spike and Angel work together begrudgingly, and here they're just acting far more pathetic than they ought to. Their humorous can be done so much more elegantly, and it's not hard - 'You're a bloody puppet!'

Andrew is also used to considerably worse effect here than in his previous appearance. I did greatly enjoy his diving to shove something under his couch, though. Couldn't make out what it was, but I like to imagine it was Playgirl or something. Another good moment of physical humor here happens when Spike and Angel attempt to enter the apartment at the same time, bumping into each other at the threshold. ('I part my threshold! I mean, my apartment, obviously.')

Also still enjoyable: Angelus and Spike in flashback having something of a bro bonding moment. Sure, they're super-antagonistic at this point, but it's still amusing watching them. They are furious when Darla and Drusilla (making a rare final appearance!) praise the Immortal's sexual prowess. Though again character-wise, I find it pretty hard to believe that Angelus never once engaged in a threesome with Darla and Drusilla before.

In all, I'm kind of disappointed that this episode was so badly flawed. Most humorous episodes leave me without complaint, but the characterization felt too 'check this out, isn't this funny?' - with Angel wearing the racecar jacket at the end as one example. Nonetheless, it's a decent-in-concept episode that provides enough laughs (and has few enough canon implications) to bring us in striking range. But I'm ambivalent about the impending finale...

---

* Illyria wants the Wesley D and she's not being subtle about it. Poor Burkle parents.

* 'Every time he shows up I either lose my girl, get beaten by an angry mob, or get thrown in prison for tax evasion!'

* The slow-motion fight set to what sounds like Sinatra is great. It also ends with Spike and Angel just punching each other. Their bickering is way better than the agreement in general: 'I stopped Acathla. That counts as saving the world.' / 'Buffy RAN YOU THROUGH WITH A SWORD.' / 'Yeah, but I made her do it.'

* Spike loses his leather jacket and it's immediately replaced with an identical one. Good show.

* I wonder how often that head of Rome's W&H has wardrobe malfunctions. Love that their office looks absolutely identical.
---

we're entering the end game! only three more episodes D=
---

wait i thought there were only 2 left for 22 episodes in the season

fancy that!
---

your latest write up wasn't there when i wrote that post.

it's only 2 more to go! oops!
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

'I stopped Acathla. That counts as saving the world.' / 'Buffy RAN YOU THROUGH WITH A SWORD.' / 'Yeah, but I made her do it.'

i like how spike's right here. this one does count for him! even though he was evil!
---

yeah not fond of the whole Immortal gag
---

It feels like really weird timing for Angel's progression where this episode lies, given how the last one ended and the next one begins.
---

I think it says something that one of the first things Season 8 does is retcon this to have not been Buffy at all, complete with her scoffing at the very idea.
---

Yeah the Immortal thing was dumb.
---

alright, kinda glad i'm not alone on that one

in supernatural, the french mistake (6x17) is commonly seen as one of the best post-S5 episodes. it's funny (and probably a little less annoying to me than angel 5x20), but... there's a limit to how meta/out of character fourth-wall-breaking you can go, depending on the tone of the show, while still being congruent. doesn't compare to the trickster episodes.

(does/did anyone following this topic watch supernatural? i've mentioned it a *lot* in my writeups and it started like a year after angel ended, but i'm not sure if that's just being lost on everyone)
---

I watched Supernatural until like, halfway through S4. I was still enjoying it, I just fell behind and haven't caught up. And now I'm SO far behind.
---

Yeah I hated that episode too. The comics kind of redeemed it as Jon said but it's still dumb.
---

I watched Supernatural through Season 6. I've also watched a few random episodes from seasons 7 and 8.

I've heard there are some good comedy episodes throughout the later seasons that I want to watch but I just really lost interest in the plot and characters after season 5. Even by season 5 I was ready for it to end. Can't believe it is still going.
---

I've seen almost all of supernatural.

I think that episode is fine tbh. Angel and Spike are at their best when they antagonize eachother, but the rare moments of camaraderie they find is good too. Usually it's over something heavy like reflecting on the monstrous things they did as soulless vampires. But if there's one big thing they have in common, it's Buffy, which has kind of been neglected all season. Its a good way to explore how they both feel while also reducing them to loveable mooks.

Literally the only problem I have with it is how close it is to the finale. This episode woulda fit much better in the middle of the season.


I'm actually not so sure the Immortal is a vampire.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

alright, kinda glad i'm not alone on that one

in supernatural, the french mistake (6x17) is commonly seen as one of the best post-S5 episodes. it's funny (and probably a little less annoying to me than angel 5x20), but... there's a limit to how meta/out of character fourth-wall-breaking you can go, depending on the tone of the show, while still being congruent. doesn't compare to the trickster episodes.

(does/did anyone following this topic watch supernatural? i've mentioned it a *lot* in my writeups and it started like a year after angel ended, but i'm not sure if that's just being lost on everyone)

The French Mistake at least sets up a pretty damn good reason to be that way, which is part of the reason I like it a hell of a lot more than this. And the only trickster episode that compares for pure humor is the last one when you find out he's Gabriel, but I think it's the only one set up similarly.

And yeah, I've watched all of them. At this point it's practically an endurance run.
---

I enjoyed that episode for how kooky it was, but I can understand why people find it ill-fitting.
---

ClyTheCool posted...

I think that episode is fine tbh. Angel and Spike are at their best when they antagonize eachother, but the rare moments of camaraderie they find is good too. Usually it's over something heavy like reflecting on the monstrous things they did as soulless vampires. But if there's one big thing they have in common, it's Buffy, which has kind of been neglected all season. Its a good way to explore how they both feel while also reducing them to loveable mooks.

I don't mind Angel and Spike bonding (and actually, I think their flashback in this episode is hilarious). It's more that based on their characterization, this shouldn't be bonding; it should be cause for further antagonism!

Literally the only problem I have with it is how close it is to the finale. This episode woulda fit much better in the middle of the season.

Yeah, I agree that timing is a problem. Which I didn't feel was the case with, say, the Fish People episode! That episode was just bad. This episode is made worse by its positioning.

kevwaffles posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

alright, kinda glad i'm not alone on that one

in supernatural, the french mistake (6x17) is commonly seen as one of the best post-S5 episodes. it's funny (and probably a little less annoying to me than angel 5x20), but... there's a limit to how meta/out of character fourth-wall-breaking you can go, depending on the tone of the show, while still being congruent. doesn't compare to the trickster episodes.

(does/did anyone following this topic watch supernatural? i've mentioned it a *lot* in my writeups and it started like a year after angel ended, but i'm not sure if that's just being lost on everyone)

The French Mistake at least sets up a pretty damn good reason to be that way, which is part of the reason I like it a hell of a lot more than this. And the only trickster episode that compares for pure humor is the last one when you find out he's Gabriel, but I think it's the only one set up similarly.

And yeah, I've watched all of them. At this point it's practically an endurance run.

Yeah, the plot justification for The French Mistake isn't awful. It's just that once they get to the alternate world, the humor just comes from stating references rather than actual cleverness. I think the type of humor from the S2/S3 Trickster episodes, or the S3 'Bad Luck Charm' episodes is stronger, since it comes from smart writing/directing/acting rather than just dropping meta humor and actor in-jokes.

The only show I follow week-to-week anymore is Game of Thrones. I always am caught with the end of each most recent Supernatural season.

Anyway, glad that mostly my comparisons aren't falling on deaf ears. I've talked about Supernatural a lot in these writeups so it would be awkward if I were just pointing them out and no one had any context on what I meant!

My Immortal posted...

I watched Supernatural until like, halfway through S4. I was still enjoying it, I just fell behind and haven't caught up. And now I'm SO far behind.

You don't really need to catch up all the way, but Seasons 4 and 5 are easily the best of the entire show's run. I think they're very, very much worth it. You can decide whether or not to continue from there.
---

https://twitter.com/JamesMarstersOf/status/837071163851341826

related to the last ep

Moving right along, then. I'm finishing this series either tonight or tomorrow, and we all love post-series recaps... right???

ANGEL - Season 5, Episode 21

Recap: Angel breaks up with Nina the Werewolf and starts getting more seriously in bed with Wolfram and their high-powered clients, shrugging off the 'good fight.' Wesley is sent a message in his Codex, which spurs him to investigate - Lindsey confirms that Angel is attempting to join - the Circle of the Black Thorn. Angel manages to join the group only by killing a wounded Drogyn. Upon being confronted, Angel waxes unsentimental about power - and then pulls a glamor to explain that his goal is to go out in a blaze of glory by killing the Black Thorn.

So I love almost everything about this episode, except for one thing. Why do we need to start this episode in medias res? It adds absolutely nothing to the narrative. This cliche is often used to show a main character acting out of character, particularly looking evil, and then stringing you along to show that he's actually not evil, he's just putting on a facade. Angel does look pretty evil here... except then he looks evil during the whole leadup to that moment! It's a bad cliche, and it's not even used correctly! Augh.

Anyway, that awful directing choice aside, this episode is fucking great. I'm a Breaking Bad fan, so you know how much I love a 'power corrupts' story. It's a tremendous credit - to Angel's acting skills, his checkered past, and the level of writing I've come to expect on this show - that I managed to be disappointed when it was all (as it obviously was!) a farce. It makes perfect sense, of course, though I would certainly have been a little happier if the transition felt more gradual. We're told several times throughout the season that Angel might be playing for the wrong team here, so it's been built up a lot. But 5x19 didn't feel like the next logical step ascending the evil mountain - it felt like a BLOWOUT HOLY SHIT WHAT moment.

This smoothens out that shock a little bit. It's a little less complex, but what's monumental is the doubt that Angel's actions instill. The idea that he might have had anything to do with Fred's death is horrifying. But it's also in the past now. For six minutes, we can be honest and talk in very open terms about the endgame. Yeah, we're instilling pedophelia. Yeah, we're giving up a baby to the Fell Brethren. Yeah, we're partying with the demon who literally looks like the Devil (who, hey, first appeared in the Cordy ep!) and breaking company policy by serving human blood to evil senators' personal vamps. But we're not going in forever. We're going in with a bomb strapped to our vest.

What's Illyria's purpose going to be in the endgame? She's a walking remnant of the past, Ozymandias staring at her ruins but forced to walk among them. That's all fine and dandy, but she killed one of our characters to provide some angst for Wesley and then spouted off a lot of generic-sounding dialogue about power and apathy. There's got to be more to her than that - she has feelings for Wesley, and she's super-strong, and she's very clearly spending time to adjust to playing video games and learning about the human nature. She has to be critical to the endgame, and I suspect that with just one episode left and no one else on her power level, she may be the one who reverses Adam Baldwin's boot stomping down onto her face. (It would be a hysterical level of trolling if that's actually how she died, though.)

This is what heroes do, right? They refuse to accept the reality of the world. They see power in their grasp, and they turn away from it. They never forget the price exacted on their souls for the lives they don't save. They fight against the evil powers that be. And if they're successful, then for at least some period of time, they will not fade away.
---

---

* My first thought when the episode began with Angel and Nina in bed: 'Nina is so dead.'

* Drogyn's name and physical appearance do not go unnoticed by Gunn, who calls him 'Aragorn.'

* Classic Angel: Once he's infiltrated the Black Thorn for real, they just start playing elevator music and serving elegant cocktails while praising each other in somewhat elevated vernacular. It's a show about evil corporations and how humans can be every bit as bad as demons. To steal a bit from Orwell... we looked from human to demon, and demon to human, but no one could tell the difference.

* Whedon really does seem to love temporally displaced people discovering the modern world, especially through video games. Captain America playing Galaga feels incredibly similar to Illyria playing Crash Bandicoot.

* Wes giving Illyria the cold shoulder, as Illyria describes to Spike: He and I are no longer having intercourse.

* Actually, Illyria is just incredible as someone for Spike to bounce words off: 'Angel and I have never been intimate... except that once.' Then, 'Looking like Fred, for some of us, is the most devastating power you have.' And of course, 'You want to go find something to hit?'

* Illyria describes Angel as being corrupt. Bitch, you were the one advising him to be corrupt!
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

This is what heroes do, right? They refuse to accept the reality of the world. They see power in their grasp, and they turn away from it. They never forget the price exacted on their souls for the lives they don't save. They fight against the evil powers that be. And if they're successful, then for at least some period of time, they will not fade away.

Is this a quote or did you write this?
---