Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Thrall vs. Morgl, the endless cycle

(+) Yeah! (+)

Shaman stone so boring it led to two purges

I recently opened a Lorewalker Cho, so that was a nice 400 dust.

That was the best Hearthstone experience I've had in a month.
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I still get on for a couple matches a week with Renolock or Reno Priest
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I got Krul a week ago so now I have all the Kabal class Legendaries

Now I guess I go for Finja or Wickerflame

I just got done playing a game in wild where the opponent played Krul and it brought a Doomguard, Voidcaller, Jaraxxus and Mal'Ganis with it. My 30 card overload deck wasn't going to win that one.
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Well I crafted Finja and have no regrets

Card is pretty good!

I'm hoping the pattern holds true and we get another adventure next. Those are always fun.
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just got three Legendaries in my arena draft

Inkmaster, Wrathion, and Ragnaros. Too bad the rest of my deck is sort of a mess so I'm not really expecting to do well
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well so far i'm 2 - 0 because Ragnaros is a very good card
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I drafted exactly six 5 drops in my current arena. After mulliganing my opening hand of 5-5-5, this is the situation I find myself in.

http://i.imgur.com/lvwTY1f.png
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I feel that. I have a deck with 5 total cards over 5 mana, and against one aggro deck, I ended up wtih all of them in my starting hand. Obviously, I lost.


In other news, I have the play a friend quest, and nobody online. Never mind.

Also, does anyone know a wqsad458? They sent me a friend request, I accepted, prodded them for a response and got nothing, and defriended them. Now they're trying again, so either they're a B8 person or a spambot.

Ben Brode with some stats on the current meta (and some analysis I don't feel like quoting):

Over the last two weeks, 30% of players are piloting Shaman at Legend. If you include all ranks, 17% of players are playing Shaman. This includes several decks: Aggro Shaman, Midrange Shaman, Control Shaman and Jade Shaman.

The worst point of imbalance in our history was Undertaker Hunter, where Hunter was played by 35% of players across all ranks.

The Pirate 'package' of Small-Time Buccaneer and Patches the Pirate is played in about 50% of all decks at rank 5 and above.

The average win rate of the best deck in the meta is 53%. Historically, there has never been a 'best deck' with a lower win-rate. Put another way, this is the worst 'best deck' in Hearthstone's history. The win rate is consistent across all ranks, though individual players have wildly variant individual experiences. We don't include mirror matches in our calculations.

The highest win rate of all time was Undertaker Hunter around 60%.


https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20753316155
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And after all that, we still have to wait until the end of the month for them to nerf stuff.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

well so far i'm 2 - 0 because Ragnaros is a very good card

update: then I lost 3 straight. That deck really squandered some incredible luck.
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davidponte posted...

And after all that, we still have to wait until the end of the month for them to nerf stuff.

If.
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Does stuff need nerfing? Pirate warrior doesn't really bother me. Shaman, I'll admit, always seems to have answers to everything. But if the win rate is under 53%, obviously it's beatable.

Shaman might just because it's been the most played class for about a year now and there's no sign of that changing post rotation. (Mid Jade is incredibly strong and most versions don't run Trogg or Golem anymore)

Still playing Jade Rogue with varying degrees of success.

Still having fun with it.

Man, some opening hands are so bad though.
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azuarc posted...

Does stuff need nerfing? Pirate warrior doesn't really bother me. Shaman, I'll admit, always seems to have answers to everything. But if the win rate is under 53%, obviously it's beatable.

I think its less about the win rate, which I'll argue is similar all around because every deck runs the same cards, and just the fact that the same Pirate package is in literally 50% of all decks.

Win or lose, seeing STB and Patches turn 1 in half of all games you play is not very fun and exciting.
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yeah, I think the notion that "well the best decks only have 53% win rates" isn't very convincing, when they are just losing to other decks with the same pirate package. Pirate Warrior is obviously all pirates, Shaman are running pirates, and rogues are running pirates.

What's the winrate of these decks against decks that don't also run pirates? I'm willing to bet its higher than 53%.
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It especially says something when the most popular Jade Shamans, which is not really an aggressive deck, cuts Trogg and Totem Golem which are some of the best 1 and 2 drops out there, in order to fit in the Pirate package.
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Well there are a few decks that can beat Shaman. Reno Mage is awesome against Aggro Shaman, while Renolock can easily beat the slower Shaman decks. Control Warrior can beat most pirate decks but it struggles against Reno decks.

The biggest issue is what happens after Reno and Justicar rotate out.

I just did 35 damage to a Priest in arena with an Eerie Statue.
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davidponte posted...

I think its less about the win rate, which I'll argue is similar all around because every deck runs the same cards, and just the fact that the same Pirate package is in literally 50% of all decks.

Win or lose, seeing STB and Patches turn 1 in half of all games you play is not very fun and exciting.

I run it in my main deck just to have some early game so I don't stagnate. Before I put in a very extensive pirate line-up (9 cards), I was sometimes getting run over by aggro, and often losing the board to control with a deck that can't readily take it back against minions too big to burn. Dragon priest is really the only match-up I feel seriously disadvantaged against now.

As Control Warrior, I'm 2-0 against Jade Druid

Was scared of this matchup but I seem to play it pretty well

9 win arena: 150 gold, 2 common cards.

f*** me.
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Blizzard needs to stop giving non-golden cards as arena rewards unless you go 0-3. Or at least make them rare+. It's inexcusable, honestly.
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In other news, I'm having so much fun with Jade Rogue. This is the first deck in the game I've been excited to play every couple days. So many decisions to make in each game, and it's wonderful being able to steal (heh) games I really have no business winning.
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BlackDra90n posted...

I'm hoping the pattern holds true and we get another adventure next. Those are always fun.

Adventures are great BUT Blizzard announced they're only going to do one a year from now on. The yearly cycle will go

Early in the year: old cards rotate out and a full 100+ Expansion will be released to help fill the gaps

Middle of the year: Adventure released

Later in the year: another 100+ Expansion


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A full expansion could be good because Mean Streets has a lot of holes, Hunter and Paladin are almost never played. Shaman will still be the top class post rotation, most of the control decks will lose their tools while aggro remains highly relevant cause Pirates etc

they better release another expansion since there's so many cards rotating out

also the next expansion/adventure was leaked by a voice actress, sucks to be her:

Lost Secrets of Un'Goro

i don't like these lame ass themes i want raid bosses as cards
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Chaeix posted...

sucks to be her

Don't think Blizzard will do anything to her at all. If anything they'll hope it will distract a few people for the rest of the month so they don't go back to complaining about Shaman or Pirates until the next patch. Then, when nothing gets nerfed it will be time to actually start talking about the next expansion so they'll hope people will stop complaining about Shaman or Pirates with all the new cards that may or may not actually challenge Shaman or Pirates.

Then a week or two of people trying out new decks before two months of complaining about Shaman or Pirates, and Ben Brode or someone has to come out and say, yes, we may or may not have a problem. We're paying attention to it. Here are some stats that don't really give you the whole picture for you to discuss. Then it's halfway to the next set of cards so start over.

And yes, I'm salty that even in Wild I'm still playing Shaman and Pirates 50% of the time right now. Last month tricked me because I didn't start playing until it was halfway over.
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Chaeix posted...

they better release another expansion since there's so many cards rotating out

also the next expansion/adventure was leaked by a voice actress, sucks to be her:

Lost Secrets of Un'Goro

i don't like these lame ass themes i want raid bosses as cards

That's an interesting adventure. Wish it was based off a raid though.
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soooo

how greedy is this decklist


Mind Vision × 2
Northshire Cleric × 1
Pint-Size Potion × 2
Potion of Madness × 2
Power Word: Shield × 2
Convert × 2
Resurrect × 1
Shadow Word: Pain × 1
Shrinkmeister × 2
Shadow Word: Death × 1
Thoughtsteal × 2
Mindgames × 1
Shadow Madness × 1
Excavated Evil × 1
Faceless Manipulator × 1
Onyx Bishop × 1
Cabal Shadow Priest × 1
Emperor Thaurissan × 1
Entomb × 2
Nefarian × 1
Mind Control x1
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Words cannot describe the greed therein.
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I'm sure everyone is just running Flamewaker, but Dragon Priest worked pretty well for me in this brawl. Remove the spells and add in Pyromancer x2, Priest of the Feast x2, Red Mana Wyrm x2, Arcane Giant x2 and Loatheb. Never even got to play the Pyros or Priests in the games I've played so far so I'm thinking of removing them for Midnight Drakes or something.
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trdl23 posted...

In other news, I'm having so much fun with Jade Rogue. This is the first deck in the game I've been excited to play every couple days. So many decisions to make in each game, and it's wonderful being able to steal (heh) games I really have no business winning.

Are you still playing that miracle variant? (Was that you?)

azuarc posted...

trdl23 posted...

In other news, I'm having so much fun with Jade Rogue. This is the first deck in the game I've been excited to play every couple days. So many decisions to make in each game, and it's wonderful being able to steal (heh) games I really have no business winning.

Are you still playing that miracle variant? (Was that you?)

Yes (yes)

Still no Edwin though!
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I played a Miracle Rogue today with no Edwin, Questings, Leeroy, Cold Bloods, Eviscerates or any kind of burst. Replaced all of it with a N'zoth package.
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I've been playing Anyfin Pally which is fun

Especially cause I haven't been facing many devolve Shamans! Might take a break again though because I got tilted super hard last night

Devolve is the one card that absolutely ruins my jade rogue. Shamans and druids use strictly battlecries, but rogues depend on deathrattles. It's bad.

Also: I have Play a Friend again.

I just had Tundra Rhino-charge-induced Core Hound lethal for the 4th game this Arena run what is happening
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Mines worse
I just had a guy in arena that had y'sharj, deathwing, AND prince malcheazar

"but prince malc-"

no. they weren't "created by prince malcheazar". he just had them
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My hearthstone conspiracy theory is that arena is rigged so you'll always get a choice between three great cards right after you get a choice between complete garbage. Can't count how often I get three cards, any of which I would have taken over the last 6 or 9 cards in the previous picks. Silverback Patriarch, Magma Rager and Priestess of Eluna followed immediately by Truesilver Champion, Keeper of Uldaman and Consecration.
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Devolve just ruins my hand buff murlocadin so badly. Like, Murlocs are already countered by devolve, I have a scary 5 minion board thats all buffing eachother, boom devolve it's all wisps and tinyfins suddenly. Add on to that I invest the resources of hand buffs on those minions to make them even scarier and jesus christ devolve, it hurts so bad!


I actually think it might be stronger early game where it turns 2 -3 drops that are decently strong into 1/1s. Using it to remove a special effect on high cost late game minions is pretty good, but it still leaves you with high cost minions to deal with.
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Said it before, I'll say it again: I thought evolve was a completely broken card when it was first revealed, and I can't believe it took time for it to gather enough momentum to get played. The old response was "well, it's between a hex and AE in terms of removal. If I want to stop a big minion, hex is better. If I want to stop a board, I'd rather just clear it." Not completely wrong, but missing the point entirely.

I disagree that it's broken.

Out of all my decks my hand buff Murloc deck is the only one particularly punished by it.
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Reno decks don't care that much about the card

It basically only punishes Rogue and Shaman

It punishes anyone who wants to have a specific card in play. Devolving a 4/10 twilight drake to a random 3 drop is certainly noticeable. It also probably trashes resurrect potions. OTOH, it has zero effect on mountain giant because there are no 11-drops in the game. (I've seen this happen a couple times.)

Like evolve, it can sometimes backfire. If I've got Ysera and you devolve, I could end up with Rag, or Tirion, or some other noteworthy 8-drop. But it's basically "mulch your board, and put the new minion(s) into play immediately." Except slightly less random than mulch.

Yes, it accomplishes an effect, just like every card. Polymorph takes that beloved 4/10 twilight drake and turns into a 1/1. How unfortunate for me. Flamestrike clears my board of beloved murlocs off the map completely. I really wanted to have murlocs in play, but that damn flamestrike!

It can be very punishing against certain board states, and very little effect against others. In Hearthstone, if you put a board out, you almost *always* expect the opponent to do something to remove it. There are different ways of doing it, and Devolve is different from most, but it has positives and negatives to it. There's even a stronger version of Devolve in the Kazakus potions, so it's not like its effect is one of a kind.

I would say that maybe Devolve is *too* punishing against the decks that it punishes for how much it costs, but I wouldn't put it into broken territory.
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