Board 8 > transience's video game topic 49: look over the horizon, a lot of games are nier

(+) Yeah! (+)

I haven't either. I've just read some crit after the release in Japan.

Horizon is such a gorgeous game. I've been left cold by the characters, and the world isn't as reactive as I'd like, but the environments in this game are second to none. It is a joy to explore. Here are a bunch of pictures I've taken so far:
http://imgur.com/a/IehS7
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how is horizon? I'm behind on pods but it feels like it came and went? maybe Zelda hype just crushed everyone
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I'm still working that out. I've found it to be disappointing in a lot of areas but it still manages to surprise at times.
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watching 2/3rds of the zelda quick look has me excited. maybe i can get my friend who's getting a switch tomorrow to just lend me his wii u so i can play that version without spending hundreds of dollars. it's basically the same game but at 720p, right?
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I mean, what you said could have applied to killzone as well as horizon. that developer has always been my hesitation.
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I think the KZ games are garbo. At worst I think Horizon is a response to open world RPGs pre-Witcher 3.
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i love everything about horizon. i especially like the voice acting, particularly ashley burch
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she's hella good.
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Bungie today announced what's going to carry over from Destiny to Destiny 2.

Bungie

Sequels represent the start of a new adventure for every player, with new worlds to explore, new stories to tell, new powers to acquire, new loot to earn, and much more. This led us to a decision that would enable us to serve both the game and the player’s best interests: Destiny 1 power, possessions, and Eververse-related items and currency will not carry forward. They will, however, remain accessible to you in Destiny 1.
We know that, just like us, you have grown fond of the Guardians you’ve created, so we do plan to preserve your character personalization. We are going to recognize the dedication and passion you’ve shown for this world. Specifically, the class, race, gender, face, hair, and marking selections for all characters that have achieved Level 20 and completed the Black Garden story mission will carry forward. We also plan to award those veteran accounts with honors that reflect your Destiny 1 accomplishments.

They also announced D1's final live event for the end of March, Age of Triumph. Full reveal on stream Wednesday, but the image in the post suggests Vault of Glass. Personally I'm thinking the Triumph in the title could refer back to the Memories of Triumph from the first two years of the game, which would also support the idea of old raids being brought up to current levels.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45708
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I'm not totally surprised about that news, if Destiny 2 is going to be the leap and change Destiny NEEDS, it's probably for the best. Bringing forward old raids has been rumored for a while, and seems to be simple enough to do so it makes sense to do it for this last update.
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So 7 hours in.

Guys I think P4G is good!
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I'm watching this GB Zelda stream and I have to wonder if there might be a gap between people who play a lot of modern games and classic gamers who just want another Zelda. this feels like Zelda by way of Skyrim or something and that might not sit right with some
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Well depends.

Do you want your franchises to stay static, or to try something different?

You've tended to prefer things like Dragon Quest keeping their formula forever. Weren't you one of those who wasn't a fan of Fire Emblem games changing things up?

At some point, something's got to give.
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I'm not talking about me at all - I don't have a strong allegiance to the Zelda franchise. taking away basic tenets like standard dungeons and adding breakable weapons and cooking is just, well, different
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I don't understand your point. what's just another Zelda? Spirit Tracks? Hyrule Warriors? A Link Between Worlds? Triforce Heroes? Skyward Sword? you're not going to please everyone and Zelda fans are used to the idea that a new Zelda might not speak to them.
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can I just say that the single Joycon set-up is surprisingly not terrible. you're obviously limited in what you can do but the games that you'll be playing them with will have simple controls.
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Thoughts on DOOM:

-Disclaimer: I am not the target audience for this game

Pros:

-Combat is sooo good. Fast, brutal, frenetic, and tactical. It makes me upset that regenerating health and cover became the industry standard. That's fine a lot of the time but DOOM essentially has the best FPS combat I've ever played by a large margin and makes a lot of the others look weak in comparison.

-I like the combat execution system. It's a nice way to gain health back while also adding to the over-the-top action. Getting hit f***ing hurts (I am playing on Hard) and in a way that is almost Bloodborne-ish, the way to get health back is to kill more things. You can go for health packs but they're limited and can ruin your positioning. Nice risk/reward with everything.

-The story and writing are surprisingly awesome. There's background events you can pay attention, and I do because the little codexes add nice flavor to the world and the monologues are short enough to not break the flow of the game, but your Doomguy hates it all and is just pissed off about everything. Best silent protagonist in a while.

-Graphics and art style are very good.


Cons:

-Speaking of industry standard: I hate checkpoint systems that don't let you manually save. One time I picked up all the health and armor in a room, went into the next and fought a ton of demons. I went forward and immediately got hit by a train that came out of nowhere and died immediately. The game then reloaded me back before the room I'd just cleared, and before I'd picked up all the health and armor, which I had to do all over again. Let me save when I'm not in combat.

-While I overall like the combat execution system, it can get wonky sometimes. You end up having to shoot enemies just enough to stagger them but not enough to kill them, which is weird. It also puts you in a vulnerable position a little too often, although the animations are thankfully and you're invulnerable while performing them.

-Instant player environmental kills are dumb and not fun in a game like this.

-Loading times after dying are kind of long.

-Keycard and exploration have always been a Doom series thing, and I knew that coming in. I still don't like it. Exploring is really not very fun and it's mostly running around corridors and doing poor FPS platforming. There's a lot of loading time elevators that break up the flow - actually, everything about exploring breaks up the flow. I basically want to never stop shooting things in Doom and this part of the game feels like padding. You have to explore for a lot of powerups so I'm also kinda forced to do it.


I'm only a few levels in, but overall the game is not as fun as I thought it would be. The combat, story, and graphics are excellent but everything else about the game is a drag.
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KamikazePotato posted...

-Speaking of industry standard: I hate checkpoint systems that don't let you manually save. One time I picked up all the health and armor in a room, went into the next and fought a ton of demons. I went forward and immediately got hit by a train that came out of nowhere and died immediately. The game then reloaded me back before the room I'd just cleared, and before I'd picked up all the health and armor, which I had to do all over again. Let me save when I'm not in combat.

Honestly my only issue with checkpoint systems is one that don't have a suspend save type thing.

Checkpoints are otherwise cool but not having a suspend save if you are doing checkpoints sucks.
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Yeah that caused a problem for me too when playing. Had to go soon but the game hadn't checkpointed me in a while so I had to rush through the next combat section and pray it gave me a checkpoint afterwards.
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iiicon posted...

I don't understand your point. what's just another Zelda? Spirit Tracks? Hyrule Warriors? A Link Between Worlds? Triforce Heroes? Skyward Sword? you're not going to please everyone and Zelda fans are used to the idea that a new Zelda might not speak to them.

mmm... I don't think those games depart from the formula quite like Breath of the Wild though. like they have different control schemes and stuff but they aren't tearing down Zelda constructs that have been in place for decades. the closest comparison is probably LBW but that item renting system didn't dramatically change the structure. you weren't going right to the final area in the first minutes of the game or eschewing dungeons entirely.

and I think we're on the same page here, but spinoffs and handhelds aren't going to be in the same boat as the next huge Zelda game.

and I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all! I just wonder if the praise will continue being universal. BOTW has GOAT status right now from reviewers and that's gonna be tough for some fans to deal with I think. I'm really excited that they're going this route though.
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I'd say Hyrule Warriors is quite the departure from Zelda norms.
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you're not actually comparing Hyrule Warriors to Breath of the Wild though, right?
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They are both probably top 5 zelda games
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oh no
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also KP pls
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I am really liking Story of seasons: Trio of towns so far.
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Alright, got in some good Zelda time tonight. Here's some hot takes.

- Wii U version doesn't look great. Lot of aliasing, makes it look messy. Framerate drops are real and noticeable, but so far haven't been a real hinderance.
- The world is huge. Legitimately. This is cool, and you really can go anywhere. I wish Link was a little more mobile, though, given how vast everything is.
- I love the mini-dungeon shrines. They're great little bite-sized things with worthwhile rewards.
- Not digging the weapon degradation stuff. It makes you want to use sub-par gear and that's not much fun.
- Game is tough. I feel pretty underpowered early on, and one wrong turn can get you dead real quick.
- Wii U Pro Controller kinda sucks. It's been a while and I had forgotten.
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you'd be a great person to ask this: does it feel like Xenoblade in terms of exploration? I guess you never played X but that's what I'm wondering - if this is somehow a better X.
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I only really noticed aliasing in the very first area of the game, the tomb you wake up in. Other than that spot I think the game has looked pretty great so far.
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Zelda is bigger than Xenoblade, but Zelda is also a little more sparse. That might just be because there aren't a bunch of enemies all over the place in Xenoblade though.
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man that makes me want to see you play X
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anyway, I'm playing zero time dilemma and am feeling no attraction to it at all. I got to a puzzle, finally, and I just don't want to engage with it. not sure why.
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ZTD took me a while to get into and I never got into it as much as 999 or VLR. It was still alright, though.
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I have to say, I really enjoyed ZTD and it could possibly be my favorite of the series.
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ZTD is great.

I feel like VLR is better but it's really not a fair comparison at all because VLR doesn't have to actually follow through on all of the awesome stuff it sets up.
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Okay so the Wii U, when I pulled it out... was like "oh christ" and cheap and slow and just not very appealing. The Switch was appealing right away, it felt good/right, and just seems like exactly what Nintendo needed to put out. My biggest complaint... it needed either a cheap game (like Snipperclips) or a pro controller as a pack-in. Maybe that would be unreasonable.
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I don't understand how 1-2-Switch wasn't a pack-in.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Exploring is really not very fun and it's mostly running around corridors and doing poor FPS platforming. There's a lot of loading time elevators that break up the flow - actually, everything about exploring breaks up the flow. I basically want to never stop shooting things in Doom and this part of the game feels like padding. You have to explore for a lot of powerups so I'm also kinda forced to do it.

completely disagree with this since i enjoyed the exploration and i think the platforming here actually feels great, especially with the mantling and the double jump. the complexity of the level design is shown off through the exploration, and i always felt clever about finding upgrades and secrets. sure, it's not the most aesthetically pleasing game, but going through every nook and cranny is almost always rewarding, and the easter eggs are just cool. didn't think i'd actually platinum this game, but i did!

but of course, the game does end up losing steam in that regard later on. that might be very good news for you though!
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Might just not be a game for me then. These sound like me-specific problems.

I'm gonna boost my hipster cred and say that I'm (maybe temporarily) shelving DOOM in favor of Bleed 2. Hey @transcience - what are your thoughts? I think it's really good.
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you can definitely beat the game just mainlining it without doing any exploration. finding keycards is never as demanding as finding every collectible and upgrade. the combat encounters get even better with your arsenal growing and more advanced enemies showing up. the writing holds up throughout the whole game. there are some real good moments later on too. i think it's worth finishing!
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thoughts on bleed 2? it's bleed+ in the best ways. the parry changes the game for the better and there's a lot more action crammed into every second of the game's hour length.
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Totally agree. Production values of the game are really good and the parry mechanic is excellent. Music is better and gets you pumped. I like Wryn having little voice lines, I'm big on sound effects so that adds to the game for me. There's way more boss encounters and that's really really nice.

I beat Hard and am tinkering with the extra loadout stuff they give you. The default dash + gun/sword is by far the best setup but the others are fun to mess around with. I tried doing a level with just the chainsaw and it was a disaster.

I might go back to Doom. Bleed 2 won't take me laugh to blast through.
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Also, there's a taunt button GOTY
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I found the slower boost to be somewhat necessary to my playstyle for very hard.
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Hmm. Yeah, I could see that. I just prefer the speed of the default dash, too used to it from Bleed 1.

I feel like I'll spend a lot less time with this one than Bleed 1, but that's because I'm carrying over my experience from that and 2 is way more condensed (in a good way). More than got my money's worth though, very happy with how it turned out.
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I played Level 3 for like 2 hours and I still can't get an A rank on Very Hard aaaaagh. I might have to adjust my personal goal to 'beat each level on Very Hard without dying', because I already did that for Level 3 and I still got a B rank. Took a lot of damage though.

(I am having fun)
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yeah, level 3 is where it gets nasty and it just gets worse from there.
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My brain can barely comprehend the possibility of cramming in any more games at this point but the video Giant Bomb put up of Tokyo 42 makes me super pumped for that game. It has a f***ing LOOK to it that's second to none.
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two things I like about Zelda so far:

Small thing: building towers for you to climb and NOT giving out all the little map icons once you reach the top is such a smart change. It really forces you to take stock of your situation and surroundings. I say open world games are good podcast games because there's a lot of downtime when you're wandering through the world checking off items in a list, but BotW demands my full attention.

Big thing: I kinda love this world. The resistance knew their encounter with Ganon would come, and that he would kill everyone they know and destroy their world as they know it, so they spent untold resources to uncover artifacts from the past and build a set of trials to test you, to ensure that you're ready. It's less 'you are the chosen one' and more 'you are the best of us and we are all dead, so you are our last hope' and I am all about that. It's still a deterministic world and the fates of Zelda, Ganon, Link and Hyrule itself are intertwined, but they are where they are because of their abilities, not their lineage.
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Played a decent chunk of Horizon Zero Dawn, I really like that game. Also, I though I was pessimistic about humanity's future, but what I have gathered about the events that led to the world of Zero Dawn almost make me look optimistic.
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