Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tidus, Frog, Link, Tails and Kaos vs. Bowser

(+) Yeah! (+)

FFDragon posted...

i admire your gumption

but this is not the hill to die on

I realize that I am being voted against; not because Bowser would lose, but because no one is actually looking at the battle. They just see 5 v 1/new guy vs. exp player/ no one can explain how every member of the team magically teleports out of the way of the shell.
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I owned Bowser in M4, I think I'm qualified to assess his capabilities fairly.
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FFDragon posted...

I owned Bowser in M4, I think I'm qualified to assess his capabilities fairly.

Ok, so can you explain to me how anyone that starts in front of that shell is getting out of the way? If the shell works as it does in MKDD like it says. That means it is traveling at a very high speed to start and is the size of a bus, I feel like a bus could hit 5 people standing in a line, or at least graze them. Plus you have to take in to consideration the fact that they are all standing right on the edge of a lava pit. You have a person the same size as you just push you towards that from a step away I'll bet you fall in, let alone that giant shell.
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For one thing, two of them can fly

Hell, Kaos is always flying
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The shell is best used on a small terrain and preferably one with hazards.

Like, say, a freight train.

In an area like this though, with multiple fliers that ignore it and others that could take a swing at it, it's mostly irrelevant. Couple that with the enormity of the terrain to allow recovery and regrouping time, and the fact that there are multiple people who could match Bowser by themselves, this isn't a close match.
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Basically God, the issue isn't that the shell can't hit some dudes, because it's possible

it's that the terrain is so large there's no time to capitalize on the mayhem it creates, and any of the survivors except maybe Tails are respected to probably solo Bowser (and Tails is guaranteed to escape because he's way, way faster than a bus, so it's not gonna be a 1v1) after they've had time to recover. Your arguments are good, but you're starting from a flawed premise, kinda.
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StealThisSheen posted...

For one thing, two of them can fly

Hell, Kaos is always flying

It doesn't state anywhere that the are flying, just that they can fly, and Kaos is in more of a hover than straight up flying most of the time.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Basically God, the issue isn't that the shell can't hit some dudes, because it's possible

it's that the terrain is so large there's no time to capitalize on the mayhem it creates, and any of the survivors except maybe Tails are respected to probably solo Bowser (and Tails is guaranteed to escape because he's way, way faster than a bus, so it's not gonna be a 1v1) after they've had time to recover. Your arguments are good, but you're starting from a flawed premise, kinda.

The starting ground is really not that big though. Tails may be faster than a bus but not faster than a bus that is traveling at over 60mph that appears right in front of him.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Basically God, the issue isn't that the shell can't hit some dudes, because it's possible

it's that the terrain is so large there's no time to capitalize on the mayhem it creates, and any of the survivors except maybe Tails are respected to probably solo Bowser (and Tails is guaranteed to escape because he's way, way faster than a bus, so it's not gonna be a 1v1) after they've had time to recover. Your arguments are good, but you're starting from a flawed premise, kinda.

Also, if I am starting from a flawed premise, correct it. What is actually happening at the exact start of the fight, how much "extra" space are they given when it says it starts "right in front of them?"
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That varies according to interpretation, but most interps probably set the shell somewhere between 1 to 5 yards away (maybe 10 if you're being realllly generous with dodging). Problem is that Tails, Tidus and Frog have all shown amazing reflex hype in their games (Tidus catches balls going at like twice or thrice the speed of the shell outta nowhere, Tails can track and keep up with Sonic, etc.), so arguing they can't reflex their way out of this mess is iffy. They really DO have the cred for it.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

For one thing, two of them can fly

Hell, Kaos is always flying

It doesn't state anywhere that the are flying, just that they can fly, and Kaos is in more of a hover than straight up flying most of the time.

I mean, if something is coming at them, why wouldn't they fly out of the way? >_>

Kaos can teleport, too, so...
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as someone who tilted from far, far, far dumber shit in the past i advise you to let the match go

also i nominate ffdragon to be your mercs guru, he is very smart.

anyway, bowser shell isn't soloing 5 dudes, with frog's healing, link's potion, etc.
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also im gonna have to go with my main man frog

underrated merc
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stop trying to make me an adjunct

i'm more than happy to just vote and make fun of the admins

it's freeing
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ffd what do you think of 13 foot tall brock lesnar vs sabin figaro in a boxing match


you know, just curious

im sure his appendix is even more sturdy
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also i am totally not going to tutor someone after m4 was basically "coach eddv for 30 weeks until i beat him myself with the power of betrayal"


thankfully i couldnt betray igcd but man, i have had it with mercs babysitting (; ) )
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Frog
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also i basically babysat boko but he actually was plotting against me, and i knew it, so it was like...kinda awkward

hey boko
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StealThisSheen posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

For one thing, two of them can fly

Hell, Kaos is always flying

It doesn't state anywhere that the are flying, just that they can fly, and Kaos is in more of a hover than straight up flying most of the time.

I mean, if something is coming at them, why wouldn't they fly out of the way? >_>

Kaos can teleport, too, so...

According to Kan, if you are being "very generous" the shell can start 10 yards away. At 60mph it would take a third of a second to reach and hit everyone on that platform. They dont have enough time.

I know it's pointless to argue at this point because no one seems to care about actually looking at the facts but I am not going to give up just because of that.
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I see you've gone to the Corrik School of Arguing™ where you insist you are correct against all evidence and demean your voters.

spoilers this makes people less inclined to vote for you in the future when you may actually have a chance because you've subconsciously drilled it into them that your arguments are in bad faith

better to accept the incredibly lopsided loss now than sabotage a potential close win later
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Tidus

What FFD said.
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FFDragon posted...

I see you've gone to the Corrik School of Arguing™ where you insist you are correct against all evidence and demean your voters.

spoilers this makes people less inclined to vote for you in the future when you may actually have a chance because you've subconsciously drilled it into them that your arguments are in bad faith

better to accept the incredibly lopsided loss now than sabotage a potential close win later

There is zero reason for this post at all.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

For one thing, two of them can fly

Hell, Kaos is always flying

It doesn't state anywhere that the are flying, just that they can fly, and Kaos is in more of a hover than straight up flying most of the time.

I mean, if something is coming at them, why wouldn't they fly out of the way? >_>

Kaos can teleport, too, so...

According to Kan, if you are being "very generous" the shell can start 10 yards away. At 60mph it would take a third of a second to reach and hit everyone on that platform. They dont have enough time.

I know it's pointless to argue at this point because no one seems to care about actually looking at the facts but I am not going to give up just because of that.

This argument has been done before, if it makes you feel better, by Scare in his very first match with bowser. In a Wrestling ring.
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Corrik posted...

There is zero reason for this post at all.

gravy keeps insisting I impart advice, so I'm giving him the most pressing long term suggestion right now
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Truly a user worthy of the title of "uoty"
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FFDragon posted...

Corrik posted...

There is zero reason for this post at all.

gravy keeps insisting I impart advice, so I'm giving him the most pressing long term suggestion right now

Except, you are fabricating things due to personal bias. It has no place in this topic and is completely off topic.



IGCD, it is not a question if the shell will hit a member or two of the other team. It is the fact that Tidus probably gets hit by worse in FFX and survives. That they have healing. Someone supposedly can teleport. The impact would cause a slight deviation in the path, otherwise the object is moreso just moved than caromed into.

Would you do some damage with the shell? Absolutely. Is Bowser gonna solo this match. Not a chance.

I am very surprised you bid in this match and did not forfeit outright. You could have spent your money to buy down a merc instead of getting this terrain.
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I have no personal bias.

It is objective fact that your arguing style in early M4 lost you matches that you could have probably won. It's an insidious thing that clouds people's judgments even if they don't intend it to.

I'm warning god not to fall into that same trap.
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addendum: no personal bias against users. def have some against mercs themselves.
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FFDragon posted...

I have no personal bias.

It is objective fact that your arguing style in early M4 lost you matches that you could have probably won. It's an insidious thing that clouds people's judgments even if they don't intend it to.

I'm warning god not to fall into that same trap.

I won all but 1-2 matches that went to a match. So you are saying I should have went undefeated? Doubtful.
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I think Frog alone could probably take Bowser. 5v1 makes me think Bowser doesn't stand a chance.
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FFDragon posted...

I see you've gone to the Corrik School of Arguing™ where you insist you are correct against all evidence and demean your voters.

spoilers this makes people less inclined to vote for you in the future when you may actually have a chance because you've subconsciously drilled it into them that your arguments are in bad faith

better to accept the incredibly lopsided loss now than sabotage a potential close win later

Thing is the only evidence presented against me so far has amounted to pretty much "lol nope." If these battles are supposed to be looked at as real time cut scenes, how do you explain them being hit by the equivalent of a bus traveling at 60mph right near the edge of a lava pit and not falling in?
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Also do any of the opponents have invincibility? Because Bowsers moveset from SSB4 gives him an attack that makes him invincible, albeit a short time. That particular move tells me that his shell is indestructible so I don't see anyone destroying the shell that is coming at then at the start of the match.
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Thing is the only evidence presented against me so far has amounted to pretty much "lol nope." If these battles are supposed to be looked at as real time cut scenes, how do you explain them being hit by the equivalent of a bus traveling at 60mph right near the edge of a lava pit and not falling in?

The abillity to fly from two of them and a third one (Frog) having what is basically a grappling hook in his tongue come to mind. Basically the problem is this: any one survivor plus Tails can beat Bowser. For Bowser to win, the shell has to kill everyone but Tails. This is a really, really tall order. We're talking a best case scenario here, not a regular situation. At least personally, what I usually do is set a spectrum between 'team reacts like they have no brains' and 'team reacts like this is I Wanna Be The Guy and they've grinded out enough for a no-breaks no-deaths run' and start trying to think about how that goes, introducing small changes each time. For Kaos to be stunned so hard he forgets he can fly, Frog to forget he has a tongue that can save him, Link to forget to use Fairy, Tidus to not be able to jump, Tails to be unable to fly and rescue anyone, and all of those dudes to lack the reflexes to react when multiple of them (Tidus and Tails especially) are demonstrably superhuman in that area, a lot of things have to go wrong. It's not impossible, but it's improbable. Your job as a leader isn't to construct an argument where your team wins. It's to construct a probable argument where you win, something the consensus agrees is the most likely way a fight goes. Skyridge's team massively failing with no survivors/no survivors bar Tails is highly improbable.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Thing is the only evidence presented against me so far has amounted to pretty much "lol nope." If these battles are supposed to be looked at as real time cut scenes, how do you explain them being hit by the equivalent of a bus traveling at 60mph right near the edge of a lava pit and not falling in?

The abillity to fly from two of them and a third one (Frog) having what is basically a grappling hook in his tongue come to mind. Basically the problem is this: any one survivor plus Tails can beat Bowser. For Bowser to win, the shell has to kill everyone but Tails. This is a really, really tall order. We're talking a best case scenario here, not a regular situation. At least personally, what I usually do is set a spectrum between 'team reacts like they have no brains' and 'team reacts like this is I Wanna Be The Guy and they've grinded out enough for a no-breaks no-deaths run' and start trying to think about how that goes, introducing small changes each time. For Kaos to be stunned so hard he forgets he can fly, Frog to forget he has a tongue that can save him, Link to forget to use Fairy, Tidus to not be able to jump, Tails to be unable to fly and rescue anyone, and all of those dudes to lack the reflexes to react when multiple of them (Tidus and Tails especially) are demonstrably superhuman in that area, a lot of things have to go wrong. It's not impossible, but it's improbable. Your job as a leader isn't to construct an argument where your team wins. It's to construct a probable argument where you win, something the consensus agrees is the most likely way a fight goes. Skyridge's team massively failing with no survivors/no survivors bar Tails is highly improbable.

If you look at their starting area, Frog has no where to grapple to(the side walls would still allow him to be hit as he would take a diagonal path towards them,) the cast time of fairy is longer than a third of a second(as I am being generous and doing the math with the shell ten yards away,) Tidus cannot move faster than 60mph, and I have not actually seen evidence that Kaos can teleport. Now if I am wrong in any regard please provide the evidence. At this point I am no longer arguing to win because people are clearly voting based on personal bias but I just want to understand how anyone can think everyone gets out of the way.
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Kaos doesn't teleport, he just flies and is enormous. This chart seems about right for Spyro's size:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/50b7/f/2011/328/2/c/sd12__s_tlos_size_chart_by_sighriadragoness12-d4h7doa.png

look at Kaos in the vid Skyridge posted. He's gotta be...what, 16-20 feet tall? More than that? Why would the shell send him flying backwards (reasonable overall) and down? He's too huge for that.

https://sagamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Mario-Kart-Double-Dash-Bowser-Shell-Item.png

This is the Bowser Shell. It's smaller than him. It's a tough sale, God. I just don't see how a projectile smaller than Kaos himself can somehow send him downward with so much force instead of maybe stunning him in midair for a bit, even disregarding everybody else.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Kaos doesn't teleport, he just flies and is enormous. This chart seems about right for Spyro's size:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/50b7/f/2011/328/2/c/sd12__s_tlos_size_chart_by_sighriadragoness12-d4h7doa.png

look at Kaos in the vid Skyridge posted. He's gotta be...what, 16-20 feet tall? More than that? Why would the shell send him flying backwards (reasonable overall) and down? He's too huge for that.

https://sagamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Mario-Kart-Double-Dash-Bowser-Shell-Item.png

This is the Bowser Shell. It's smaller than him. It's a tough sale, God. I just don't see how a projectile smaller than Kaos himself can somehow send him downward with so much force instead of maybe stunning him in midair for a bit, even disregarding everybody else.

So you agree that the shell could stun him if hit, but while stunned he magically just keeps floating?(to be fair getting stunned does seem to be another effect the shell has on people it hits) I mean they are starting on the edge of a platform surrounded by lava all it takes is getting stunned for there to be a reasonable chance to fall in. And I have never seen anyone of these characters survive falling in to lava.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Kaos doesn't teleport, he just flies and is enormous. This chart seems about right for Spyro's size:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/50b7/f/2011/328/2/c/sd12__s_tlos_size_chart_by_sighriadragoness12-d4h7doa.png

look at Kaos in the vid Skyridge posted. He's gotta be...what, 16-20 feet tall? More than that? Why would the shell send him flying backwards (reasonable overall) and down? He's too huge for that.

https://sagamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Mario-Kart-Double-Dash-Bowser-Shell-Item.png

This is the Bowser Shell. It's smaller than him. It's a tough sale, God. I just don't see how a projectile smaller than Kaos himself can somehow send him downward with so much force instead of maybe stunning him in midair for a bit, even disregarding everybody else.

So you agree that the shell could stun him if hit, but while stunned he magically just keeps floating?(to be fair getting stunned does seem to be another effect the shell has on people it hits) I mean they are starting on the edge of a platform surrounded by lava all it takes is getting stunned for there to be a reasonable chance to fall in. And I have never seen anyone of these characters survive falling in to lava.

Best think to learn about mercs is that however anything would actually go or how logical something may or may not seem that others are going to say whatever they feel is clever to them.

Most matches will have people arguing that so and so mercs will win cuz of this or that which basically breaks down a fight to the team they thinks will win accomplidhes it while the opposing team stands still and does nothing.

No one will consider synergy, research, or for the most part care for anything you may state. Your main sticking points are to just use proper abilities and to set up good rosters. Preferrably with mercs in games people played as if it is someone in a game they have not played extensively they mostly gloss over their ability. (Which even I do.)

So, my main point is to not get worked up over a match that you honestly never were gonna win. 5v1s do not work out well unless you have a huge power discrepancy. Save your frustration for the days to come because Mercs is full of it.
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Corrik posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Kaos doesn't teleport, he just flies and is enormous. This chart seems about right for Spyro's size:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/50b7/f/2011/328/2/c/sd12__s_tlos_size_chart_by_sighriadragoness12-d4h7doa.png

look at Kaos in the vid Skyridge posted. He's gotta be...what, 16-20 feet tall? More than that? Why would the shell send him flying backwards (reasonable overall) and down? He's too huge for that.

https://sagamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Mario-Kart-Double-Dash-Bowser-Shell-Item.png

This is the Bowser Shell. It's smaller than him. It's a tough sale, God. I just don't see how a projectile smaller than Kaos himself can somehow send him downward with so much force instead of maybe stunning him in midair for a bit, even disregarding everybody else.

So you agree that the shell could stun him if hit, but while stunned he magically just keeps floating?(to be fair getting stunned does seem to be another effect the shell has on people it hits) I mean they are starting on the edge of a platform surrounded by lava all it takes is getting stunned for there to be a reasonable chance to fall in. And I have never seen anyone of these characters survive falling in to lava.

Best think to learn about mercs is that however anything would actually go or how logical something may or may not seem that others are going to say whatever they feel is clever to them.

Most matches will have people arguing that so and so mercs will win cuz of this or that which basically breaks down a fight to the team they thinks will win accomplidhes it while the opposing team stands still and does nothing.

No one will consider synergy, research, or for the most part care for anything you may state. Your main sticking points are to just use proper abilities and to set up good rosters. Preferrably with mercs in games people played as if it is someone in a game they have not played extensively they mostly gloss over their ability. (Which even I do.)

So, my main point is to not get worked up over a match that you honestly never were gonna win. 5v1s do not work out well unless you have a huge power discrepancy. Save your frustration for the days to come because Mercs is full of it.

So, basically what you are saying is that arguments are a formality and are likely never to actually have an effect on the outcome of a match?
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

So, basically what you are saying is that arguments are a formality and are likely never to actually have an effect on the outcome of a match?

Arguments are nice and can have a minor effect on the match especially if a leader comes up with something creative yet plausible or reveals important information about a more esoteric character. But they are definitely not the be all end all of who wins a match. Most voters are fairly familiar with most of these characters already and can think for themselves. Leader arguments are also inherently biased and taken with at least a grain of salt.

Losing is a part of Mercs, I don't think I won a single match in M1 and I lost my first 3 matches in M4. Being able to deal with it and move on the next match is an important quality to develop. Mercs has a steep learning curve and is pretty brutal to newbies. If you want to run ideas by a veteran Mercs player who doesn't have a dog in the fight feel free to contact me. I'll be loosely following these topics and it's not a bad idea to get a second pair of eyes on an idea, especially when you're starting out.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

So, basically what you are saying is that arguments are a formality and are likely never to actually have an effect on the outcome of a match?

Well corrik is mostly bitter because hes losing right now so take his negativity with a grain of salt.

Creativity and solid presentation goes a long way. But if youre going to win a 1 on 5 match the 1 had better be something special and to most people bowser isnt it.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

If you look at their starting area, Frog has no where to grapple to(the side walls would still allow him to be hit as he would take a diagonal path towards them,) the cast time of fairy is longer than a third of a second(as I am being generous and doing the math with the shell ten yards away,) Tidus cannot move faster than 60mph, and I have not actually seen evidence that Kaos can teleport. Now if I am wrong in any regard please provide the evidence. At this point I am no longer arguing to win because people are clearly voting based on personal bias but I just want to understand how anyone can think everyone gets out of the way.

Tidus can legit jump over the shell, have you seen him do the Jecht Shot? He can literally jump, without a running start, like 15 feet straight up (an also kind of hover up there). So he can just jump over it and run across the bridge
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JeezyMiyagi posted...

Arguments are nice and can have a minor effect on the match especially if a leader comes up with something creative yet plausible or reveals important information about a more esoteric character. But they are definitely not the be all end all of who wins a match. Most voters are fairly familiar with most of these characters already and can think for themselves.

Pretty much this. If you want to give me information about Eleonora Yumizuru then I will totally be listening. But I already know Bowser, I know Tidus, I know Frog, I don't really need to hear arguments either way.
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JeezyMiyagi posted...

Arguments are nice and can have a minor effect on the match especially if a leader comes up with something creative yet plausible or reveals important information about a more esoteric character. But they are definitely not the be all end all of who wins a match. Most voters are fairly familiar with most of these characters already and can think for themselves. Leader arguments are also inherently biased and taken with at least a grain of salt.

Losing is a part of Mercs, I don't think I won a single match in M1 and I lost my first 3 matches in M4. Being able to deal with it and move on the next match is an important quality to develop. Mercs has a steep learning curve and is pretty brutal to newbies. If you want to run ideas by a veteran Mercs player who doesn't have a dog in the fight feel free to contact me. I'll be loosely following these topics and it's not a bad idea to get a second pair of eyes on an idea, especially when you're starting out.

No, I get that. Its just unfortunate that the arguments mean diddly squat. Like the points I am making aren't even being disputed or explained away, its just "lol nope" or "that's not how it works," with no further explanation so I will continue to have no idea what to even try and argue.
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MZero11 posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

If you look at their starting area, Frog has no where to grapple to(the side walls would still allow him to be hit as he would take a diagonal path towards them,) the cast time of fairy is longer than a third of a second(as I am being generous and doing the math with the shell ten yards away,) Tidus cannot move faster than 60mph, and I have not actually seen evidence that Kaos can teleport. Now if I am wrong in any regard please provide the evidence. At this point I am no longer arguing to win because people are clearly voting based on personal bias but I just want to understand how anyone can think everyone gets out of the way.

Tidus can legit jump over the shell, have you seen him do the Jecht Shot? He can literally jump, without a running start, like 15 feet straight up (an also kind of hover up there). So he can just jump over it and run across the bridge

I get that but I have never seen anything to suggest that he is faster that what that shell would be moving at from the distance it starts.
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Drakeryn posted...

JeezyMiyagi posted...

Arguments are nice and can have a minor effect on the match especially if a leader comes up with something creative yet plausible or reveals important information about a more esoteric character. But they are definitely not the be all end all of who wins a match. Most voters are fairly familiar with most of these characters already and can think for themselves.

Pretty much this. If you want to give me information about Eleonora Yumizuru then I will totally be listening. But I already know Bowser, I know Tidus, I know Frog, I don't really need to hear arguments either way.

That's fine but you are completely ignoring substantial pieces of information regarding this fight. You put Bowser 1 v 1 in a vacuum, I have no doubt that he loses most of these fights. But this isn't a vacuum, there are external factors at play. Factors that are being blatantly ignored infavour of biases that I don't understand.
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MZero11 posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

If you look at their starting area, Frog has no where to grapple to(the side walls would still allow him to be hit as he would take a diagonal path towards them,) the cast time of fairy is longer than a third of a second(as I am being generous and doing the math with the shell ten yards away,) Tidus cannot move faster than 60mph, and I have not actually seen evidence that Kaos can teleport. Now if I am wrong in any regard please provide the evidence. At this point I am no longer arguing to win because people are clearly voting based on personal bias but I just want to understand how anyone can think everyone gets out of the way.

Tidus can legit jump over the shell, have you seen him do the Jecht Shot? He can literally jump, without a running start, like 15 feet straight up (an also kind of hover up there). So he can just jump over it and run across the bridge

Doubt his reaction time is high enough tbqh
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Eddv posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

So, basically what you are saying is that arguments are a formality and are likely never to actually have an effect on the outcome of a match?

Well corrik is mostly bitter because hes losing right now so take his negativity with a grain of salt.

Creativity and solid presentation goes a long way. But if youre going to win a 1 on 5 match the 1 had better be something special and to most people bowser isnt it.

Why am I bitter? It is a fact that was apparent all of last season.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

That's fine but you are completely ignoring substantial pieces of information regarding this fight. You put Bowser 1 v 1 in a vacuum, I have no doubt that he loses most of these fights. But this isn't a vacuum, there are external factors at play. Factors that are being blatantly ignored infavour of biases that I don't understand.

what part of "Frog cuts the shell in half" do you not understand

the shell is a complete nonfactor

navigating the castle is also largely a nonfactor considering we have a frog, a highly agile dude in Tidus, and a platformer character who in-game can airlift other characters to areas they can't normally reach
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Corrik posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Kaos doesn't teleport, he just flies and is enormous. This chart seems about right for Spyro's size:

http://orig05.deviantart.net/50b7/f/2011/328/2/c/sd12__s_tlos_size_chart_by_sighriadragoness12-d4h7doa.png

look at Kaos in the vid Skyridge posted. He's gotta be...what, 16-20 feet tall? More than that? Why would the shell send him flying backwards (reasonable overall) and down? He's too huge for that.

https://sagamer.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Mario-Kart-Double-Dash-Bowser-Shell-Item.png

This is the Bowser Shell. It's smaller than him. It's a tough sale, God. I just don't see how a projectile smaller than Kaos himself can somehow send him downward with so much force instead of maybe stunning him in midair for a bit, even disregarding everybody else.

So you agree that the shell could stun him if hit, but while stunned he magically just keeps floating?(to be fair getting stunned does seem to be another effect the shell has on people it hits) I mean they are starting on the edge of a platform surrounded by lava all it takes is getting stunned for there to be a reasonable chance to fall in. And I have never seen anyone of these characters survive falling in to lava.

Best think to learn about mercs is that however anything would actually go or how logical something may or may not seem that others are going to say whatever they feel is clever to them.

Most matches will have people arguing that so and so mercs will win cuz of this or that which basically breaks down a fight to the team they thinks will win accomplidhes it while the opposing team stands still and does nothing.

No one will consider synergy, research, or for the most part care for anything you may state. Your main sticking points are to just use proper abilities and to set up good rosters. Preferrably with mercs in games people played as if it is someone in a game they have not played extensively they mostly gloss over their ability. (Which even I do.)

So, my main point is to not get worked up over a match that you honestly never were gonna win. 5v1s do not work out well unless you have a huge power discrepancy. Save your frustration for the days to come because Mercs is full of it.

So, basically what you are saying is that arguments are a formality and are likely never to actually have an effect on the outcome of a match?

Usually not unless ppl consider you a friend or so beforehand.

Most people on Board 8 want to feel clever and smart so they ignore whatever they feel necessary to make their own arguments. Occasionally they make good ones.
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Corrik posted...

MZero11 posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

If you look at their starting area, Frog has no where to grapple to(the side walls would still allow him to be hit as he would take a diagonal path towards them,) the cast time of fairy is longer than a third of a second(as I am being generous and doing the math with the shell ten yards away,) Tidus cannot move faster than 60mph, and I have not actually seen evidence that Kaos can teleport. Now if I am wrong in any regard please provide the evidence. At this point I am no longer arguing to win because people are clearly voting based on personal bias but I just want to understand how anyone can think everyone gets out of the way.

Tidus can legit jump over the shell, have you seen him do the Jecht Shot? He can literally jump, without a running start, like 15 feet straight up (an also kind of hover up there). So he can just jump over it and run across the bridge

Doubt his reaction time is high enough tbqh

Actually wait. What is the starting distance?
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