Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Tidus, Frog, Link, Tails and Kaos vs. Bowser

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tidus, Frog, Link, Tails and Kaos have challenged Bowser to a fight! Location of the fight: Bowser's Castle - Your standard fort of Bowser's residence, as seen in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Expect lava, pitfalls and traps aplenty, although there won't be any sentient enemies such as Dry Bones or Thwomps. Attackers will start at the entrance, while defenders will start at the throne room.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Link is as he appears in Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link, with everything from that game except Spell, along with all the experience, techniques, and items/equipment from The Legend of Zelda including a Red Potion.

Frog is as he appears in Chrono Trigger, with access to the upgraded Masamune, though it won't split mountains or anything like that. Additionally he's equipped with a Regal Plate, Master's Crown, and Prism Specs.

Tidus is as seen in the endgame of Final Fantasy X, with the entirety of his path down the normal sphere grid maxed out, and access to all his overdrives. He also has access to his moves from the Dissidia series, though the brave/HP mechanics do not apply. He has his Caladbolg and best non-broken armor.

Tails is as he appears in the Sonic the Hedgehog series, with all of his abilities but does not have access to any of his mechanical creations.

Kaos is as seen in Skylanders: Trap Team in his final boss battle, with access to all of his powers seen within.

~VS~

Bowser is as he appears in Super Smash Bros. 4, with his full moveset (except for his Final Smash and game mechanics like double jump and overshield), all of his abilities from Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser's Inside Story, and limited use of his Mario RPG spells. He may not use his minion summoning techniques from Bowser's Inside Story. He has launched his massive, spiked shell from Mario Kart: Double Dash at the enemy team. It will start right in front of the enemy and rocket towards them when the battle begins, going in a straight line and ricocheting off of walls while gradually losing speed until it disappears. Beware, if Bowser's team find themselves in the crossfire, they aren't immune to the damage it can cause.

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The answer lies in the heart of...the Koopa King? Wait, what the heck?! FIGHT!
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@Skyridge87
@IfGodCouldDie

Showtime. I'll post arguments in a few mins if you don't show up.
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Excuse me, I believe you mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIjfkmkPxt4
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IfGodCouldDie's argument:

Tidus, Link and Kaos do not even make it to the fight with Bowser and heres why:

None of them have the jumping capabilities to navigate the castle.

The heat from the lava rooms would easily overwhelm Link and Tidus as we have seen that stronger iterations of Link cannot handle that heat without the red tunic. I have no reason to believe that Tidus, who is wearing even less than Link would be able to tolerate it.

Ill give Tails and Frog a pass, as I suspect Tails may just be able to fly straight to the throne room and Frog being able to make the jumps needed to access the throne room and use water magic the heat is unlikely to affect him much.

For the actual fight; Bowser vs. Tails and Frog. Bowser easily beats these two. He has home court advantage, Tails is a useless sack of sht and Frog doesnt have anything that can beat Bowser. Im quite sure that most frogs are an easy meal for most lizards, why would this be any different, especially with the massive size difference.

Hell their team is coming in so overconfident that Link is the only one that came ready to fight and the form he has, has nothing that can get him through the castle.
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Skyridge's argument:

It's 5 vs 1 and Frog can heal any damage the shell happens to cause, so instead of arguing, I'm just gonna point out that Kaos is actually legit (believe me, I was surprised too):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcdR4WWHuRE&t=8m00s

Lots of AoE stuff, useful against a big target like Bowser. Kaos and a second (possibly even Tails?!) can probably duo this no problem
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Frog cleaves the shell in two (there's a shell btw)

Then kills Bowser

Tidus and the others have a party or something
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It's 5 vs 1 and Frog can heal any damage the shell happens to cause, so instead of arguing, I'm just gonna point out that Kaos is actually legit (believe me, I was surprised too):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcdR4WWHuRE&t=8m00s

Anyway, Mario regularly does this solo, just replace the minions with the Bowser Shell. There's no reason why a team of 5 wouldn't win.

As someone who owned Bowser, Tidus laughs (and also wins)
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

IfGodCouldDie's argument:

Tidus, Link and Kaos do not even make it to the fight with Bowser and heres why:

None of them have the jumping capabilities to navigate the castle.

Link can turn into a fairy, Kaos can fly, and Tails can probably carry Tidus if needed.

tails i hear this dude can 1v1 squall
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you know it
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... it's the Superstar Saga castle.

Like, all due respect to Koopa architecture, but platforming SUCKS in that game and is really easy. Zelda 2 Link could probably do it blindfolded.

Not voting yet because I like Bowser a lot. Leaning Team Tidus because it's a squash.
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Drakeryn posted...

(there's a shell btw)

Proof nobody looks at writeups when you ask for a doublecheck

fix'd, check Bowser's writeup as it's been updated
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X_Dante_X posted...

tails i hear this dude can 1v1 squall

best
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Kaos could probably solo.
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Wow, Kaos is a lot better than I thought he was. He could probably win this by himself.
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Doesn't Bowser have legit 1 V 1 experience Vs Kaos?
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Let Kaos Reign
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Kamekguy posted...

Doesn't Bowser have legit 1 V 1 experience Vs Kaos?

A Bowser does. Not this one however.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Bowser is as he appears in Super Smash Bros. 4, with his full moveset (except for his Final Smash and game mechanics like double jump and overshield), all of his abilities from Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser's Inside Story, and limited use of his Mario RPG spells.

Gotta read the writeups.

Skylanders: Superchargers Bowser probably by default could beat Kaos.
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I believe in a multiversal Bowser theory, thank you.

Kaos.
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Here we go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI4hQAwp6o8

Unfortunately, it's not this Bowser or this Kaos.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

IfGodCouldDie's argument:

Tidus, Link and Kaos do not even make it to the fight with Bowser and heres why:

None of them have the jumping capabilities to navigate the castle.

The heat from the lava rooms would easily overwhelm Link and Tidus as we have seen that stronger iterations of Link cannot handle that heat without the red tunic. I have no reason to believe that Tidus, who is wearing even less than Link would be able to tolerate it.

Ill give Tails and Frog a pass, as I suspect Tails may just be able to fly straight to the throne room and Frog being able to make the jumps needed to access the throne room and use water magic the heat is unlikely to affect him much.

For the actual fight; Bowser vs. Tails and Frog. Bowser easily beats these two. He has home court advantage, Tails is a useless sack of sht and Frog doesnt have anything that can beat Bowser. Im quite sure that most frogs are an easy meal for most lizards, why would this be any different, especially with the massive size difference.

Hell their team is coming in so overconfident that Link is the only one that came ready to fight and the form he has, has nothing that can get him through the castle.

I actually had more. Just saw the notification.
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My entire complete argument:

Tidus, Link and Kaos do not even make it to the fight with Bowser and here’s why:

None of them have the jumping capabilities to navigate the castle. Sure Tidus is good under water and has moves that he can use to accelerate himself skyward, but their are no enemies for him to use as fodder. Link has no grappling hook and cannot jump anywhere near as high as Mario, this is a fact. After doing some research on Kaos because I was told he could fly, I found this to be untrue in everything I saw and his jumping was pathetic.

Now even if Link and Tidu could navigate the castle, the heat from the lava rooms would easily overwhelm them, we have seen that stronger iterations of Link cannot handle that heat without the red tunic. I have no reason to believe that Tidus, who is wearing even less protective clothing than Link would be able to tolerate it.

I’ll give Tails and Frog a pass, as I suspect Tails may just be able to fly straight to the throne room and Frog being able to make the jumps needed to access the throne room and use water magic the heat is unlikely to affect him much.

For the actual fight; Bowser vs. Tails and Frog. Bowser easily beats these two. He has home court advantage, Tails is a useless sack of shit and Frog doesn’t have anything that can beat Bowser. I’m quite sure that most frogs are an easy meal for most lizards, why would this be any different, especially with the massive size difference.

Hell their team is coming in so overconfident that Link is the only one that came ready to fight and the iteration he is has nothing that can get him through the castle.

Even if all of them were to somehow end up in the throne room and get to battle Bowser; Bowser’s shell has caused them all to drop their items and they are coming at him unarmed. This is essentially a group of D&D players that heard about a dragon and don’t believe their DM will let them be wiped. They DO NOT stand a chance.
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so uh...

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_spells_in_Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link

Fairy Spell
When cast, this spell turns Link into a fairy, complete with the power of flight. It is mainly used to bypass certain cliffs and heights the Jump spell can't remedy.


link also traverses plenty of lava caves in zelda 2 sooo
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X_Dante_X posted...

so uh...

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_spells_in_Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link

Fairy Spell
When cast, this spell turns Link into a fairy, complete with the power of flight. It is mainly used to bypass certain cliffs and heights the Jump spell can't remedy.


link also traverses plenty of lava caves in zelda 2 sooo

Ok fair enough, but it still doesn't help him because due to the shell he is unarmed.
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well i mean he can just pick them back up if we're arguing the castle is large
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X_Dante_X posted...

well i mean he can just pick them back up if we're arguing the castle is large

Have you seen where the attackers are starting, I find it highly unlikely the majority of their equipment doesn't fall in to the lava. Hell, I'd be surprised if a couple of them didn't fall in either.
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Invader Kaos
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You know there's nothing stating that people will drop their stuff if hit by the shell, right? Or a guarantee that they'll get hit at all.

No, no it's pretty much guaranteed they would drop their items as that apart of the negative effects, it causes those struck to lose their items.
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Skyridge87 posted...

You know there's nothing stating that people will drop their stuff if hit by the shell, right? Or a guarantee that they'll get hit at all.

Also I'd like to point out that he isn't at all arguing how any of his characters would dodge it or attempting to counter point anything I have said because he knows he fucked this up. He thought his team could come in and steamroll Bowser on his home turf and is now realizing that he screwed them and has given up.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

No, no it's pretty much guaranteed they would drop their items as that apart of the negative effects, it causes those struck to lose their items.

I actually buy this, but it has to hit them first. Which it isn't, because Frog is cleaving it in two.

Alternately, both Tidus and Tails are fast and agile enough to dodge (and Tails doesn't have any weapons anyway).
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Drakeryn posted...

Which it isn't, because Frog is cleaving it in two.

I don't think so, when you watch people effected by the shell it seems that it doesn't even need to touch you, only come in to contact with something you are touching.
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Drakeryn posted...

Alternately, both Tidus and Tails are fast and agile enough to dodge (and Tails doesn't have any weapons anyway).

Let's pretend they are and that they do dodge it. Tidus is still noot making through a castle with that much lava from start to finish. And Tails won't beat Bowser 1 on 1.
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The shell isn't that big. My interpretation is that teams don't start huddled against one another. It'll hit 2, maybe 3 people. Even if it hits all the swordies and their swords fall in the lava, Kaos and Tails are enough to win it.
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Tails would wreck Bowser 1v1.

Tidus is pretty agile too - I give him credit to be able to navigate the castle, especially since Tails can carry him for short stretches if need be.
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To be fair, they're starting here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wRCB7gQCwA&t=7m5s

and Bowser's shell is probably, to eyeball it, the size of the bridge in front? So you're looking at 3/5 getting hit with the options of getting out of the way being "lava" and "more lava" and very little room for the shell to travel.
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Drakeryn posted...

Tails would wreck Bowser 1v1.

Tidus is pretty agile too - I give him credit to be able to navigate the castle, especially since Tails can carry him for short stretches if need be.

What exactly is Tails going to do to Bowser, on his own turf, it's not he has access to anything significant.
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Spin-dash into him at high speed. It works on Robotnik robots well enough, it should work on Bowser too (I don't give Bowser more durability cred than a high-end Robotnik boss).
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Kamekguy posted...

To be fair, they're starting here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wRCB7gQCwA&t=7m5s

and Bowser's shell is probably, to eyeball it, the size of the bridge in front? So you're looking at 3/5 getting hit with the options of getting out of the way being "lava" and "more lava" and very little room for the shell to travel.

First off, how often have you seen someone experience just even a regular shell for the first time and not get hit?

Secondly,

It will start right in front of the enemy and rocket towards them when the battle begins

That shell moves faster than cars on a highway when it starts, we are talking speeds upwards of 100km/h 60mph, with the size of the bridge easily taking up 4 people slots and giving them the benefit of the doubt, that they get to all start in a row width wise, you are easily hitting everyone it is lined up with. The other one, or two if one of them gets out of they way are still likely to even just be grazed by it. You ever been "grazed" by a car moving that fast? I'll bet you wouldn't want it a second time.
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Drakeryn posted...

Spin-dash into him at high speed. It works on Robotnik robots well enough, it should work on Bowser too (I don't give Bowser more durability cred than a high-end Robotnik boss).

You think Tails could brake down a castle with spin dash? Because if you look at the throne room there are places to hid and play a cat and mouse game with Tails. Once Bowser gets close Tails is done, it's basically a fox vs. a dragon.
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Bowser is way too proud to hide from an intruder in his own throne room, come on
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To be fair, if it were Tails Vs Bowser, Tails would probably win in some manner and then Bowser would go "w-wait... I promise I'll be good now" and Tails would be like "... you PROMISE promise?" and then Bowser would like throw a hammer at him and Tails would die.
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okay that's a fair point
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Tidus is a professional athlete, I'm pretty sure he can make it through the castle. He's also very quick and can cast haste on the party to help them dodge the shell. Also, his Caladbolg ignores Defense so he can wreck Bowser 1-on-1. Bowser would be too slow to dodge and his defense won't help

Team Tidus
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I could buy the shell taking out the swordies

Unfortunately, Kaos is pretty damn legit.

Kaos
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Link solos

with 2-3 other people who could also solo
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Drakeryn posted...

Bowser is way too proud to hide from an intruder in his own throne room, come on

Let's say he was. Bowser has a way more overloaded kit if you include all the games mentioned in his write-up.
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i admire your gumption

but this is not the hill to die on
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MZero11 posted...

He's also very quick and can cast haste

How much time do you honestly think you have to react with this huge magic shell coming at you at over 60mph starting RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU?
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