Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Id/Sephiroth/Zack Fair/Revan vs. Vergil/Kratos/The Lich King/Sora/Akuma

(+) Yeah! (+)

Id, Sephiroth, Zack Fair and Revan have challenged Vergil, Kratos, The Lich King, Akuma and Sora to a fight! Location of the fight: The Frozen Throne - The frozen summit where the Lich King battle takes place in World of Warcraft. Access to the rest of Icecrown Citadel or the world (of Warcraft) is banned. Attackers start at Tirion Fordring's pre-fight location (though he is not present), and defenders start by the Lich King's throne.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Sephiroth is as seen in Final Fantasy 7, Crisis Core, Dissidia, Advent Children Complete, and Kingdom Hearts 1&2, with access to all spells, materia, and abilities displayed within. This includes spells/abilities from Safer/Bizzaro Sephiroth, though he may not transform into either of those forms. He may not cast Heartless Angel, FFVII's Supernova, Pale Horse, Stop, or Break.

Id is as he appears in Xenogears, with access to all of Fei's deathblows and chi. His other personalities cannot surface or influence him, and he cannot summon any Gears.

Zack Fair is as seen in Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII equipped with his Buster Sword and Divine Slayer. He has all buffing Magic materia, all Command Materia, and the Dash Independent Materia. His Digital Mind Wave limits will not be randomized and can be used when he'd get a limit break. He cannot use Air Strike, Summons, chocobo limits, or attacks that cause status effects/death.

Revan is as he appears in Star Wars: KOTOR. He is a Light Side Scoundrel Sentinel, has access to his best non-broken equipment and access to all his Force powers as seen in KOTOR save for those in the Persuasion, Stun, Shutdown, Strangulation, and Fear chains.
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~VS~

Akuma is as he appears in the Street Fighter and Vs. series, with all of his moves, although he must charge supers before he can use them.

Sora is as he appears in Kingdom Hearts 2 FM+ with his best non-broken equipment, and is able to use his Valor, Wisdom, Limit, and Master forms, though they aren't infinite, use the same gauge (starting with and limited to 5), and won't eat up an ally. He doesn't have Magnet, summons, limits (except in Limit form), any reaction commands, or invincibility.

Kratos is as he appears in God of War 3. The only Godly Possessions in effect are the Hercules' Shoulder Guard and the Poseidon's Conch Shell. He and his weapons are fully powered up, however he does not have the Blades of Athena, the Soul Rip ability, and he may not turn invincible at any point in the fight.

The Lich King is as seen in World of Warcraft (minus boss mechanics like threat and enrage) and Heroes of the Storm (as Arthas). He does not have access to his Harvest Soul, Fury of Frostmourne, or Raise Dead abilities.

Vergil is as he appears in Devil May Cry 4: Special Edition, with all of his weaponry, skills and techniques from his boss battles in DMC3 and playable form in DMC3 and 4, though he does not have his canon regen. He may access Devil Trigger for up to 10 seconds every 5 minutes.

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You speak of justice? Of cowardice? I will show you the justice of the grave... and the true meaning of fear. FIGHT!
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@Corrik
@Johnbobb

The floor's yours. Have at it!
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Corrik's Team Argument

Listen, I know a lot of you are going to come into this and say numbers win, especially with a KO'd Bayonetta.

However, give me some of your time if you do not mind.

This is the arena.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJ7W1jo4zo

I have confirmed with Kanzaris that the starting points for the fight, as shown in the video above, are my team in the middle of the platform and the opposing team on the Throne.

The arena, as I have done this fight countless times, is approximately 40-45 meters radius of a circular platform. As you can hit from fireball range with mage from the edge to the middle where you tank arthas. Thus, you are looking at like 80-90 meters across the circular platform.

But, again, the enemy team is not starting on the circular platform. They are starting on the throne. What I do not know if you realize is that either of the sides of this FROZEN steps up to the Throne is that this is a nothingness. A couple frozen sharp shards and nothing to the bottom of the Ice Crown Citadel in which a fall is death, or ring out if you suppose.

The steps to the platform from the throne is approximately 60 meters give or take. And about 8-10 wide.

Could my team win this in a straight fight? Maybe. But, I am not so sure they have to either. And, here is why.

The enemy team starts on a choke on a frozen steps downwards.

The edges of both sides are a death zone for ring outs or falling. The terrain itself is a frozen structure which means it should be susceptible to being destroyed by a large enough force. Ever seen a piece of frozen pipe in the winter. Hit it with a metal bar and see what happens. It shears in two. While I am not saying that these steps will shear in two, I am saying a large enough force should be able to destroy it.

Well, we just so happen to have a large enough force, I believe.

Let me introduce you to, Sephiroth and Id.

Sephiroth probably needs no introduction.

However, he is the fine owner of meteor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBQ47lPbR6k

Even a limited version of this spell should be enough to destroy the choke and send the enemy team to their doom.

However, maybe you do not buy this argument, though I think you should!

Let me introduce you to someone who has been severely overlooked, I fear.

That is Id.

Continued in post 2
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Continued

Id, is an avatar of basically God. I believe his exact title is Avatar of the Wave Existence or so on.

Id can tank megaton blasts without appearance of being blasted due to the God manifestation absorbing the blows. He can destroy 40 ton Mechs with his BARE HANDS. He has superhuman speed when Id is in control. And, he also has the greatest feat any of these mercs on either side possess with the destruction of an entire army and country himself, in very miniscule amounts of time.

If you do not believe me, then check it out from the source.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111201214/4593946-3274788210_df230ff7d1_b.jpg

He destroyed the Solaris Floating City in seconds.

And to top it all off. He, like Sephiroth, also has a very apt spell for this situation.

Big Bang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afYzJR11tN8

Basically, it is to have the said power of the Universe's Big Bang Explosion. (Yes, Id is considered past Marvel Herald levels to some in full force and beyond Goku as well. However, this is not full force Id, but he does have this spell).

This again should be enough to destroy this choke and leave the enemy helplessly to their death off the sides and the ones who could manage to not die outright would be in significant damage.

That said, I do not expect the enemy to just sit there at the start. I expect them to try and get off this choke. However, there are capable opponents there to stymie that. Zack Fair, you could argue would be buffing at the start of the fight to Id and Sephiroth. Or you could be arguing he is doing something else. Whichever, it is your interpretation.

However, the one we really need to look at here is Revan.

Here is an example what one of the force can do to non force users, especially when they are the greatest Force Users of all of history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urrzcz07IYQ

Why is this important? Because Revan should be able to keep the enemy confined to the bridge while this mayhem unfolds. His force push should be significant. He can bind enemies in place as lowly Kylo Ren has shown ability to do so.

https://youtu.be/zy-wqB4cbT8?t=589


Revan also can mind meld which is how entire fleets across galaxies were able to synergize during his reign.

I believe the opponent can be beat. I think this shows how it logically could happen.

If you wish to be more clever and just drown out my argument, well at least remember Id is probably the strongest person in the match. Revan has CLOAK and he can force push off ledges. And Sephiroth is Sephiroth ofc also. Which comes coupled with buffs from Zack Fair and his contributions.

Thanks for your time. Please ponder your decision well.
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At work at the moment but essentially

My team very strong and superb at close range combat

Other team also very strong but outnumbered and not quite have the power to take Lich King and Vergil, who are arguably the tankiest people here by quite a bit (with only Id potentially getting close
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okay so this seems like a very stark power differential. Vergil/lich king are horrifying here
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Oh man, a match where I've owned almost all of the Mercs or I fanboy over them enough that I might as well have owned them. Hype.

Unfortunately this is a bit one sided.

Lich King

So first off Zack is just kind of dead on arrival here, I hate to talk about my man Zack as being outclassed but jesus is he ever.

Id, Sephiroth, and Revan are... also, outclassed, but to a less extreme degree.

My Revan respect is very high - years of Mercs has proven this and I think Revan is a beast, but... Lich King at the center of his power is just far too tanky, powerful, and has the ability to toss people to him with death grip to be taken on here at all. I'd say this would be a very good match if you literally removed the Lich King and made it 4 on 4, with him here... it's just a stomp.

I also would like to highlight that Vergil and Revan I think would be a VERY GOOD MATCH, Sora and Sephiroth could pair off for awhile (with Sephiroth probably eventually winning), Akuma and Zack could have fun together, and Kratos and Id could pair off. Those would be some very fun matches.

and then the Lich King hellmurders everyone because he's in the match.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Lich King hellmurders everyone

I officially request that Kanz submits this as my argument in all future matches.
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Lich King is vastly overrated.

Let me show you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwwQihaIzAs

Like, what exactly does he even do in this battle? He defeats one enemy who he shatters the weapon of because he has a stronger weapon. So, yeah, if Zack Fair and him crossed blades, he would shatter his sword. However, he is not shattering Revans Blade.

Also, the main thing to draw from it is that The Lich King is a slow lumbering enemy. His main power comes from controlling the scourge. As you see, he lumbers up and starts raising the dead.

The Lich King has no real cinematic feats of combat prowess. His biggest combat feat is shown above where he cocks back his sword and slowly hits into the charging opponents weapon.

I mean, in theory the Lich King is strong and very capable. However, a speed opponent who can pierce his armor is basically a hard counter to him imo. Lich King is more of a slow hard hitting tank than a killing machine, ala a Ryu or so on.
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Johnbobb posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Lich King hellmurders everyone

I officially request that Kanz submits this as my argument in all future matches.

The Lich King has no cinematics feats of battle prowess. Chris very regularly autovotes Blizzard because those are the games he plays. Which is fine.

He took absolutely zero account for the terrain or anything the other team could do besides how he thinks they could match up in 1v1s.

Id has taken apart 40 ton mechs with his hands and has super speed. Why would Arthas pose a threat to him in combat anyways?
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Hi Corrik, let me help you out since aren't very familiar with the Lich King, it is no trouble at all.

First off the Lich King is indeed not fleet of foot, he's more of a classical tank than a dodging type of guy. A few problems with what you've said though is the fact that he actually has plenty of feats, considering his name is Arthas and Arthas has quite a few feats. If you would like to argue that Arthas got weaker when he became the Lich King, I can refer you to about 80 in game quests, 2 novels, and 5 cinematic scenes where this does not appear to be the case.

Next up Arthas, as a death knight, makes use of death knight skills which include being able to strangulate a person (think force choke) death grip (think force pull) as well as the ability to use magical abilities of frost and disease to cripple and wound his enemies. Arthas' magical ability is quite strong, which makes sense given half of his being used to be a very powerful shaman.

Also piercing that armor by conventional means may be harder than you would imagine and it might mean less than you might think. Arthas' two big pieces of armor is the helm of domination (crafted by Kil'Jaeden, a person whose magical ability might just solo this match given his lore hype recentally) and Frostmourne itself. If you are in melee range of Arthas you are very likely dead already due to his ability to CC at close range. Something your melee heavy team has no knowledge of at all.

His global threat comes from controlling the scourge, but he doesn't need them to be incredibly deadly and powerful. Arthas is also the only end game enemy in WoW thus far where the players straight up lost to him.
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The account for the terrain, by the way, is that it is a small terrain with 0 cover which heightens the Lich King's powers considerably given it is unholy ground soaked with his power for decades.

I mean we could talk about how Vergil in melee murders your team too if you like. He isn't from a Blizzard game!

Also rude, I just voted against Diablo this week. 'Autovote' how uncivilized.
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He is slow and lumbering. Thank you for reiterating my point. How does he get off those steps onto the platform before it is destroyed then?

You are also taking Lich King's powers in a vacuum. You sport in game plot as feats when cutscenes are god. I mean, Id became a MULTIVERSAL power in his game. Granted, his mech had some to do with that also, but it means Id by the end of the game was able to destroy worlds. Sephiroth was able to crater the world with Meteor.

By a silly but perhaps logical argument, Sephiroth drops Meteor on the Throne and both sides die and it is a draw.

The fact is. The Wrath of the Lich King for the most part is just following around a guy who never fights. You run away from because plot. He kills someone in a slow lumbering attack. He raises undead.

Does he have capabilities? Sure. But, if your argument is that the Lich King is going to choke someone to death (which I think is probably a banned ability) then Revan has this same capability as well. There is not a vacuum.


One team starts in a choke. One does not. This is significant as any strategist in time could probably tell you.

This probably means the one team unloads on the other while the other team tries to get out of the choke. It is something that seems like a logical state of events.

You have completely glossed over the fact that my team has planetary destruction type blasts of weapons. Stronger cohesion due to Revan's telepathy. A Terrain starting point advantage.

Force Push or throw in this terrain is huge. I could see an argument that Akuma could get tossed right off that throne from Revan being viable.

Speed-wise, The Lich King is at a disadvantage to every single merc in the match besides maybe Kratos/Akuma.
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Okay so I was just looking at the thing is the Frozen Throne isn't much of a choke point. Arthas in that suit is a BIG BOY and it is about 8 Arthas' wide. Vergil/Sora/Akuma/Kratos also have no problems...you know, leaping into battle or gliding or whatever.

Okay so yeah if that is your big premise it is just wrong <_<. The steps to the frozen throne are pretty sturdy.

You had me confused and then I looked at a video an d I was like "this isn't really a choke point."

Okay well carry on, I won't take up all your time arguing.
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Uh, you know Kratos has the boots of Hermes and wings of Icarus, right? He's one of the faster Mercs here (though admittedly doesn't touch Vergil's speed)

But what Chris said mostly covers it. If you take out Lich King, or maybe if you take out Vergil, it's closer (though still probably goes to Team Kratos)

But with both the power and durability gap here is MASSIVE
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Yeah don't really buy the choke working out. It is thick and the enemy team is gonna be charging since they're all melee. Impossible to hold em all-- if one breaks through that breaks up an attempt to siege a choke.

Vergil has short range teleports that can cover most of the ground. Akuma has a sliding warp thing. Sora glides. Kratos has those boots that let him dash fast. Might be effective vs Arthas but at least one's getting through and then yeah since I don't consider any choke strat an instant win the others would get through. And then they're just outmatched

Team Vergil
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay so I was just looking at the thing is the Frozen Throne isn't much of a choke point. Arthas in that suit is a BIG BOY and it is about 8 Arthas' wide. Vergil/Sora/Akuma/Kratos also have no problems...you know, leaping into battle or gliding or whatever.

Okay so yeah if that is your big premise it is just wrong <_<. The steps to the frozen throne are pretty sturdy.

You had me confused and then I looked at a video an d I was like "this isn't really a choke point."

Okay well carry on, I won't take up all your time arguing.

It is a choke point. How do you know the structural integrity of the Citadel? It is a frozen citadel and you are talking about planetary destructive powers.


For example, let's show you the speed and power of Sephiroth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA

1. He can fly.
2. He can Teleport.
3. at 2:50 of this video the slices of his swing slices through a huge cannon. Look at how large that cannon is. That is probably bigger than the entire Steps in question here. At 1:04 of the video you can see them fighting on top of the cannon.
4. Around 1:45 the guy in red attacks with the force able to dent the metal in the cannon below and Sephiroth easily block it without a sweat. This is stronger force than the Lich King ever exerts.
5. 3:03 he again tears through this cannon with his swing.

And of course we have all seen...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K5IIY6T5-v0/SxFerca7nFI/AAAAAAAAWSM/1BLPDASyA6s/s400/FFVII-MidgarZolom_Death.jpg

Sephiroth has cut through stronger than the Lich King already from range with his attacks.

The infamous snake that is about 50 times or more the size of the mercs in question here.
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structural integrity hype
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Johnbobb posted...

Uh, you know Kratos has the boots of Hermes and wings of Icarus, right? He's one of the faster Mercs here (though admittedly doesn't touch Vergil's speed)

But what Chris said mostly covers it. If you take out Lich King, or maybe if you take out Vergil, it's closer (though still probably goes to Team Kratos)

But with both the power and durability gap here is MASSIVE

I agree the guy who can tank megaton blasts without a scratch, tear apart about 40 ton mechs with his bare hands is more durable than any merc here.

I also agree that the guy who can slice through tons upon tons of steel with a shockwave of his slice of a sword is the strongest power here.

I also agree that the guy who can telepathically link minds across the galaxy to coordinate their attacks and cohesion is the strongest mind here.

You are correct in that the gap is insanely huge.



The only mercs here who are viable threats are Vergil and Sora, ironically.

The LIch King is simply too slow. Kratos simply is out matched and too slow for the opponents arrayed against him. Kratos is more designed for fighting large lumbering beasts like a Lich King or a Diablo. Akuma is crazily outmatched in all regards. As is Zack Fair.
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Re Arthas feats, doesn't he solo a full order of paladins at their home turf

I think I recall this from M4
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Arthas SOLOS

Seriously this guy is an absolute monster.

Pain and Suffering, Remorseless Winter, various fast-acting plagues, Defile pools, Death Grip, Frostmourne lore hype, tons of minions to keep the enemies busy, one particular obnoxious summon called Raging Spirit (basically rips off a piece of an enemy's soul to make a spirit copy of it, but way stronger and tankier)... Plus he's on his place of power, and considering it took a literal miracle from the cosmic force of Good to put this guy down... yeah. Arthas is a 9/week for a reason.

(Arthas doesn't actually SOLO, but damn does he alongside Vergil make this a stomp.)
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Re Arthas feats, doesn't he solo a full order of paladins at their home turf

I think I recall this from M4

He does, including the greatest paladin in Azaroth, Tirion Fordring, at the Silver Hand's HQ, on consecrated ground (seriously nerfing him), and only is prevented from hellmurdering everyone there is because he gets surprised by Davvon tossing the Ashbringer to Tirion -- a weapon crafted from pure Light designed specifically to kill the Lich King -- and he gets inconvenienced by it enough for the Silver Hand to GTFO.
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Team Id.

High end of respect for most of that team, incredibly low end of respect on almost everyone on the other team. Id's team has way more buffs/heals (like, every single one has both buffs and healing).
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There is zero way in hell they have time to get those buffs off, and Lich King has abilities that turbo-nerf opposing healing on some characters IIRC.
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trdl23 posted...

There is zero way in hell they have time to get those buffs off, and Lich King has abilities that turbo-nerf opposing healing on some characters IIRC.

I disagree.
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Well yeah, of course you disagree, you're dead if you don't.
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On the one hand here, this Lich king overhype is here is out of control

On the other hand that team has a man advantage and Bayo was the one person in team I would guve provided the answer to this is no.

Is Id in the Welltall? Or is that something he needs to use an ability to have access to? Asking because the writeup is unclear.
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He needs as an ability to use Weltall yes. Unless stated otherwise Id is always on foot.
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(agree Arthas is being overhyped btw. To me he is about even with Vergil, maybe a little worse, but like, I'm not seeing how the 4man team checks both. Ringout strat doesn't seem believable because everybody on the fiveman team has ways to nosell force pushes, and the straight up clash strongly favors them.)
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Pains me to do this because i like corriks guys better under most circumstances.

But nope. Vergil
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If welltall is here this is a match that is really winnable though
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

and he cannot summon any Gears.

Weltall is a Gear.
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Eddv posted...

If welltall is here this is a match that is really winnable though

Less winnable and more 'stompable' tbqh

Weltall Id SOLOS
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Lopen posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

and he cannot summon any Gears.

Weltall is a Gear.

Well i wasnt sure if he even needed to summon it given that i cant recall seeing much of id without it.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

(agree Arthas is being overhyped btw. To me he is about even with Vergil, maybe a little worse, but like, I'm not seeing how the 4man team checks both. Ringout strat doesn't seem believable because everybody on the fiveman team has ways to nosell force pushes, and the straight up clash strongly favors them.)

I think Akuma and Zack Fair are trash abd can ve discarded. Zack's only contribution will be buffing what he can.

The main problem with the opposing team is speed. Sephiroth, Id, and Revan devatable with his jedi precog in conjunction with the mind meld to act as one is insurmountable in a fight.

Kratos is at a severe speed disadvantage. Arthas is slow to the point of not having an impact. Like, Arthas will take attention. But, he is not much of a threat to my 3 besides to Revan.

You could almost argue Sephiroth and Sora fly and the winner just pounds the ground with magic neither side really has range.

But, as shown in the video above and in comparison to the lich kings video, Sephiroth could dance circles around Arthas and pound him from a range outside of a deathgrip. And has teleportation phasing yo nullify one if it came.

Id on the other hand is super fast and super durable. He tanks MEGATON blasts without a scratch. That is the biggest durability feat in the match. And shows how he not only is a force to be dealt with but that he can absorb tons of high powered punishment.

Id could very easily hold off the ground with Revan and Zack albeit probably with a loss of Zack and possibly Revan while Sephiroth and Sora battle for the sky.

The major threat here is Vergil. Kratos is not strong against super fast enemies or ones who can see his moves coming through the force. Vergil however has the speed to match.


I could see the match coming down to a Vergil vs Sephiroth finale in which I think Sephiroth would ultimately prevail due to strong ranged magic.
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IT's quite clear how much of an Arthas mark I am, but if Id had the Weltall even I'd probably go that way.
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Arthas has multiple slows and roots, including an aura that just automatically damages and slows

Seph teles so he doesn't cate, but Id and Revan do.
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Corrik posted...

I think Akuma and Zack Fair are trash abd can ve discarded

why did you draft him then
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PS Arthas has a lot of magic at his disposal that is ranged and that kind of sucks to be hit by. Also death grip.
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Semi-related question:

What do you guys think about the Sephiroth v. Sora boss fight in KH2? Reasonable to use that to compare them or not canon enough?
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trdl23 posted...

IT's quite clear how much of an Arthas mark I am, but if Id had the Weltall even I'd probably go that way.

If you gave half the respect you give to Arthas that his cutscenes contradict to other mercs, the starcraft mercs in this game could solo just about every team.

The problem with the Lich King os that everyone who has sunk years and have like 300+ days played on their accounts are gonna move the poles as much as necessary to justify the result they want.

Arthas is a rich mans Luca Blight. Nothing more.
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It's reasonable so long as you don't argue Sora > Seph solo

If you do, 'lol' and I say that as his former owner
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

It's reasonable so long as you don't argue Sora > Seph solo

If you do, 'lol' and I say that as his former owner

I don't think Sora solos Seph, but I put them at close to a stalemate. I view Sora as one of the highest 5s (whose all but a 6) and Seph as one of the lower 6s
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>Here's everything he can do in the game, including story segments that take place in-game.
"But he doesn't do it in the cutscenes"

Never mind he literally just freezes bitches solid, too. I forgot to bring that up, but that's one way to have Seph GTFO. Id no-sells it, but it ruins anyone else.
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'Rich man's Luca' is Armstrong, not Arthas

That's like saying Vergil is a rich man's Ikaruga, a gross representation of both mercs
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

PS Arthas has a lot of magic at his disposal that is ranged and that kind of sucks to be hit by. Also death grip.

If death grips at every range and is 100% to work on every merc as you claim, then Revan should be 100% to just throw him off the ledge. However, these are not the case. Death Grip would never help a much faster enemy from avoiding his damage. Arthas' feats are purely in raising the dead and in physical combat against slow (regular) moving enemies. He faces nothing of speed ever.

Hell a little poison gas sends him limping off ready to die.

Arthas has faced NOTHING in terms of speed, durability, or Power that is arrayed against him in this match. He is moving along on a paper's claim that is not substantiated.
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Grigori is a rich man's Big the Cat
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

'Rich man's Luca' is Armstrong, not Arthas

That's like saying Vergil is a rich man's Ikaruga, a gross representation of both mercs

No. Armstrong os faster than both. Luca and Arthas both have magic but is not their forte. Hell lu Bu is arguably a better comparison than Armstrong.
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Corrik posted...

Arthas both have magic but is not their forte

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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