Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Id/Sephiroth/Zack Fair/Revan vs. Vergil/Kratos/The Lich King/Sora/Akuma

(+) Yeah! (+)

Fun fact: the remaining 3 aspects were in Northrend going "uh yeah we aren't fucking with that boy Arthas" so I have no idea where you came up with that.
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Here is this nerds list of their strengths at PEAK which is important in regards to the LK in this fight and this list.

This is my current list. My current problems are Thrall, the Elemental Lords, and whether Velen is too high. For example, Thrall is powerful because of the Dragon Soul he wielded... many other characters are powerful because of their weapons too.

1Sargeras
2The Pantheon (Aman'Thul, Eonar, Norgannon, Golganneth, Khaz'goroth, Aggramar)
3The Old Gods (C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, N'Zoth, Y'Shaarj)
4Elune
5Naaru
6Medivh
7Kil'jaeden/Archimonde
8Queen Azshara
9Velen
10Thrall (Dragon Soul)
11Deathwing
12Dragon Aspects (Nozdormu, Alexstrasza, Ysera, Malygos, Neltharion)
13Galakrond
14Aegwynn
15Elemental Lords (Al'Akir, Neptulon, Ragnaros, Therazane)
16The Lich King/Ner'zhul
17Med'an
18Broxigar Saurfang
19Grom Hellscream
20Cenarius
21Gul'dan
22Illidan Stormrage
23Malfurion Stormrage
24Mannoroth
25Magtheridon
26Kael'thas Sunstrider
27Xavius
28Lady Vashj
29Kel'thuzad


Now this is one person's opinion, but the matter is that the thinking that this dude is some overpowered imba character is ridiculous even by WOW standards.


This dude doesn't even have him in the top 25 if you were to add up all the ones that accompany multiple spots.

AND

that is considering LK at his peak strength which is NOT the Arthas version of the LK. Arthas in the LK is holding back the LKs strength with any hold of his personality left and trying to stop Nerzhul and the LK.
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6th
http://screenrant.com/warcraft-most-powerful-characters/

16th
http://imgur.com/a/evF55

I mean, the LK getting this shit like he is top of the Wow universe and shit is crazy.
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Here you like videos?

Another list which excludes the Titans and the Old Gods.

6th still and again a lot of this is attributed to his strength based upon the fact he can raise an undead army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-746EuJeYqQ
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Well, I mean... that guy's just wrong. <_<.

On multiple accounts, in fact.

Also He is counting Medivh when Medivh when he was possessed by Sargeras... which is basically just Sargeras again.
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Corrik posted...

I think Akuma and Zack Fair are trash abd can ve discarded

I completely disagree here. While Zack Fair is not on the leve of Id, Vergil or otherwise, he's still managed to fight Sephiroth on equal ground. He's a great and tanky combatant in his own right and deserves his fair share of this fight. Even as pre-soldier he fought a keyblade wielder as a boss.

While he is certainly not the most important, throwing him out with the dishwater is absolute folly.

Akuma is also a credible opponent, with multiple speed, strength, stamina and power feats. He's not the one to change this match's outcome, but he's capable of fighting Revan, Zack and Id. I don't think he's outright win those in 1vs1s in his current form, but he's capable of abusing the numbers advantage.

At least he cracked 9th here not counting all the ones encompassing one spot. Ayyyy! Go LK, you homeboy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LDXopSEmQE

Anyways, LK is not that strong. A lot of his power comes from his power to raise undead armies and not his combat prowess.
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Oh I knew he wasn't top 5 in the universe, was just curious what you were thinking by that since you don't know that much.

Of note this is Sargeras:



Actual size <_<.

The first few people on the Warcraft tier list put the 'god' in 'godlike.'

Point being Arthas is pretty legit.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh I knew he wasn't top 5 in the universe, was just curious what you were thinking by that since you don't know that much.

Of note this is Sargeras:



Actual size <_<.

The first few people on the Warcraft tier list put the 'god' in 'godlike.'

Point being Arthas is pretty legit.

You may know more than me from cataclysm on, but I was much more a Wow no life pre cataclysm than you. I guarantee that.
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Well I won't compare no lifing, but I've been playing Warcraft stuff since 2001 and I have always played for the lore!

More than this one sided battle I might have to question why so many people have medivh > arthas. That's a strange one!
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@ExThaNemesis

I figured this battle may interest you some. Do you have some insight one way or the other of how this fight would go?
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well I won't compare no lifing, but I've been playing Warcraft stuff since 2001 and I have always played for the lore!

More than this one sided battle I might have to question why so many people have medivh > arthas. That's a strange one!

I mean defeating Aegwynn and Arcanagos along with other feats are super impressive.
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Revan lead the charge against the Mandalorians, pushing them back and reclaiming countless worlds in the battles of the Vorzyd, Stenos, Elom, Taris, and Lianna sectors. He did more than simply bully the Mandalorian fleet into submission with raw firepower however. Canderous Ordo accounts Revan's mastery at feints, counterattacks, and mass deceptions. It is said only Revan could have done what he did, and if he hadn't intervened the galaxy would have fell to Mandalore. The actions in those battles have been long lost from the pages of history. Their only relevance for most is that it demonstrates Revan's peerless tactical prowess





If you recall in "Section I", Revan studied the art of Force Bonds to mastery level. Now it is time for the explanation on why. "Revan said that many Jedi have the capability to form connections to life around them, although few of them realized the extent to which this is possible. He speculated that many Jedi did not fully form such connections because of their discipline, because they never opened their lives to the passions around them." This technique was confirmed in the dialogue files of the game to be identical to what Meetra Surik did to her crew. While Revan can use Force Bonds to gain power, he could also use it to take power away. As we saw all throughout the Mandalorian Wars, Revan was an utter master at psychological warfare. Through the tense conflicts on Dxun and Malachor, he discovered a unique variation of Sever Force. Revan knew much of a Jedi's power comes from their state of mind, so he targeted this. Through his skill in telepathy and foresight, Revan would make his "opponents doubt themselves, their believes, or their intentions.
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I will not go in detail on Revan's lightsaber abilities since my respect thread on the character covers all those shenanigans under "Combat Abilities". However, before we delve into his Force powers, I would like to briefly summarize his skills. Revan was regarded by the Mandalorians as the greatest warrior the Republic has ever seen (which includes Exar Kun), and the greatest warrior of the age. Revan was also canonically stated by numerous sources to be the most powerful Jedi of the era. His prowess was such that he killed armies of Mandalorians during the Mandalorian Wars, even frequently combating and destroying Basilisk war droids. During the Jedi Civil War, it was said that only a few individuals were capable of facing Revan on the battlefield and even surviving the encounter. Among the greats of the era included Darth Malak ( the second most powerful Jedi of the era), Yusanis (one of the greatest Echani warriors in history), Mandalore the Ultimate (the most powerful Mandalorian during their prime). Revan beat all three of these opponents, and countless more, in single-combat. None were even a "match" to the Dark Lord's prowess.


"Yet with Revan, there was the same commitment, but it was a subtle thing, like weaving threads in a tapestry, or strokes upon a canvas. He spoke through battle and tactics in a way one could never do in words. He showed his heart at Malachor V, and finally at the end of the Jedi Civil War. I believe he was speaking to Malak in that final battle, though few knew it."

&#8213;Brianna (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)
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Telekinesis: Arguably the most famous Force power, the ability to move objects at your will is impressive indeed. We see Revan in the picture on the left telekinetically choking a Sith Officer, and we later see Darth Revan killing a Republic Solider through the force during the ambush by Bastila Shan's Jedi Strike Team. Besides this, Revan has also shown the ability to manipulate objects to a subatomic level, as demonstrated by the creation of his Sith Holocron as I elaborated on above. He is also said to be skilled in Force Whirlwind, Force Wound, and Force Scream. Additionally, as you will learn below later, Revan is "far more powerful" than a Force-user capable of telekinetically moving Star Destroyer fleets.
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Force Lightning: Contrary to popular belief, Revan is not lacking in this category in terms of feats. He is canonically confirmed to be skilled in it in countless canonical sources. His real prowess in the power comes from Knights of the Old Republic however, when he kills numerous Rancors and Rakata warriors with a Force Storm. This feat is even more impressive when realizing that Revan did this feat injured since he was in a crash landing, but also because the Rakata are renowned for their natural Force Resistance. Upon seeing the Dark Lord's power, the Rakata bowed into submission before bringing him before The One.

"You killed our patrols and war beasts with lightning from the sky."

&#8213;Rakatan Warrior (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)
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i am one with the force and the force is with me
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Force Drain*: Darth Revan was an extensive master in the art of draining the life from other beings on a massive scale.

Revan was an expert in the practice of corrupting Jedi to the dark side of the Force. On Malachor V he learned how to corrupt even some of the strongest of Jedi to the dark side through Telepathy and Mind Control. His corruption abilities were renowned to such a degree that Darth Traya believed that Revan had the capability of creating nexus' with such powerful dark side energies that it would break the will's of Jedi. This is supported by the fact that Darth Revan left a taint of darkness everywhere he went due to the sheer power emitting from him

Force Sense: Darth Revan's greatest ability is generally accepted to be his utterly peerless mastery over Battle Precognition. Battle Precognition, a variant of Precognition, allowed one to sense the flows of the Force. It allowed Revan to know where an attack is going to strike or hit him before it happened, allowing him to anticipate and strike or defend against it. Revan skill in this ability was so great he "said to be able to predict the path of wars, of battles, years in advance."
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Force Resistance: Revan was arguably among the greatest practicers of all Force and mental resistance. Not only was Revan's will capable of resisting Malachor V, but he was capable of drawing on its power to such a degree that it affected entire fleets. This caliber of resistance has never been replicated in the mythos, especially considering Malachor V was specifically used as a world to break Jedi's will's. It even broke the likes of Darth Traya, who was one of the most famed telepaths ever. Revan later resisted the void of Nathema - which created a sensation that he was splitting into trillions of subatomic particles that would scatter across the entire surface. Revan was also one of the two beings in history capable of controlling the Star Forge - something the ancient Rakata masters and supposedly even the ancient Dark Jedi of the time of Ajunta Pall could not do. To control the Star Forge requires one to be "immensely strong in mind," and the consequences for failure is described as being drained and devoured by the stations' dark energies.
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The opinions expressed in this topic clearly do not have full account of the abilities in question for the match.

Darth Revan is the most calculating, devious mind in this match. He is able to cloak. Able to see what will happen before it does. And is also able to drain dark power which emanates from the Lich King.

Also the Lich Kings mind is an everlasting fight between NerZhul and Arthas, and Revan is a master at corrupting minds which should make the Lich Kings mind a rrlatively easy target to corrupt in some ways. Probably to unleash more rage for Revan to drain into himself.
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he is not darth revan though
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FFDragon posted...

he is not darth revan though

Neutral draws from both sides of the force. As a scoundrel he is more predicated on survival at all costs.
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writeup says light side
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Also his mastery and manipulation of the force does not diminish depending on his alignment.
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FFDragon posted...

writeup says light side

Weite up is frm mercs 4 and not the draft mercs.
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well until otherwise noted, he's light side
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FFDragon posted...

well until otherwise noted, he's light side

Why do you troll me so much. Jesus
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Team Sephiroth would win
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i mean he has only light side skills that excludes dark side chains like force choke
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greengravy294 posted...

i mean he has only light side skills that excludes dark side chains like force choke

He is neutral. Was dark. Changed to neutral for this match cuz starting points were not clear at first and i planned to force push at start. Then asked for starting points and realized it didnt work. Boohoo.
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if anyone is trolling you it is kan for botching the writeup (if it is botched)
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FFDragon posted...

if anyone is trolling you it is kan for botching the writeup (if it is botched)

Every merc has there merc 4 ending write up. It is confusing yes. He is neutral tho. From dark.
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what is the point of writeups if they are not indicative of who is actually in the match
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FFDragon posted...

what is the point of writeups if they are not indicative of who is actually in the match

Would probably take him too much time to sift out all the differenxes and abilities added to them and such. I drafted 3 or 4 mercs I read what they had in the write ups and realized it was wrong cuz they no longer had the upgrades. *looking at you yuna specifically*
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someday, probably when this project is ending, all the draft mercs will be on the actual draft merc pages with their proper writeups instead of m4 ones
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well I'll roll back to an abstain until writeups are confirmed
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Drakeryn posted...

someday, probably when this project is ending, all the draft mercs will be on the actual draft merc pages with their proper writeups instead of m4 ones

I'm working on filling out the pages and also drafting a new fights template as well

My respect for the M4 admin team swells with each passing day as work keeps piling up

To clarify, Revan is a Neutral jedi with no special leanings. The writeup is in error (an error carried over from M4 because Revan's writeup was always off compared to what he actually was, no less). I will now tag players who voted for Team Lich King so they are aware and may change their votes if this sways them.

@DoomTheGyarados
@Lopen
@Eddv
@Kamekguy
@FFDragon

I think that's everyone (bar trdl who has been notified elsewhere).
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I'm good.
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Nah no change here. I honestly thought that he was Neutral just based on the leanings of mentioned force powers, should probably read the write-ups instead of just the arguments and then backup research on who I think I don't know well enough (Arthas in this case).
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Revan specifically as posted above has an affinity for feeding on dark energy. While he is neutral, he is a scoundrel who is able to do so and as so would in order to survive. Arthas and the frozen throne are bastions of dark energy to feed upon. He once fed on a whole planets dark energy to oower himself and his army. Malachor IV.
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No change but does make me buy the stealth strategy, which would not quite win the match, more
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no changes. I took Corrik at his word earlier and didn't check the writeup just because I know Revans writeup pretty well "woops".
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no change; I was just going off what Corrik said and didn't notice the writeup was different
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No change. Arthas is still OP.
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Lich King

There really isn't any place to stealth or the like, the several page dissertation on revan doesn't help that much in a situation where they are forced to go to fight the lich king, and not the other way around (LoS plague is a good way to force people to come to you or die). And for all the power Id has, I have to say Arthas doesn't bring more damage than him, but he definately brings a whole lot more durability. Forcing the enemy to come to you also means Zack dies before Akuma (which isn't much i grant you that)

Beyond everything, it just comes down to the fact that most everything is relatively equal but the pre-battle loss of bayonetta put you a guy down, and i can easily see whoever isn't focus engaged just going wild, causing whatever fight ends up a 2v1 to be fatal relatively quickly. I will say if Bayonetta wasn't offed by a retargeted scum, it would have been just an overpowering scenario.

ZeeksFire posted...

Lich King

There really isn't any place to stealth or the like, the several page dissertation on revan doesn't help that much in a situation where they are forced to go to fight the lich king, and not the other way around (LoS plague is a good way to force people to come to you or die). And for all the power Id has, I have to say Arthas doesn't bring more damage than him, but he definately brings a whole lot more durability. Forcing the enemy to come to you also means Zack dies before Akuma (which isn't much i grant you that)

Beyond everything, it just comes down to the fact that most everything is relatively equal but the pre-battle loss of bayonetta put you a guy down, and i can easily see whoever isn't focus engaged just going wild, causing whatever fight ends up a 2v1 to be fatal relatively quickly. I will say if Bayonetta wasn't offed by a retargeted scum, it would have been just an overpowering scenario.

There is zero reason my team goes to them as my team has the stronger ranged magic. It also is not in any of the enemy team's personality to let the enemy come to them. Lastly, the stealth is a literal cloak. He could stealth on any terrain.
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Request a draw as I think the answer cannot be readily achieved in this time frame and that my team would ultimately prevail with more research into Revan's, Id's, and Sephiroth's powers.

Surely you can agree with that reasoning, Johnbobb? Let's chop it up and prepare for following weeks instead of staying invested in this prolonged matchup.

Thank you.
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good one
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Johnbobb posted...

good one

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Johnbobb posted...

good one

Thanks for agreeing. Okay. Chop it up, Kanz. Thanks.
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