Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Fox McCloud vs. Kirby!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Fox McCloud has challenged Kirby to a fight! Location of the fight: Bubbly Clouds - Fighters battle in the sky on thick clouds that are for some reason able to support weight, as seen in Kirby's Dreamland. The clouds are dense enough that jumping from cloud to cloud is reasonable, and many are large enough to hold several fighters per cloud, but missing a jump causes a fall of thousands of feet to the ground. The clouds extend infinitely into the distance, separated by varying distances between each other, and are destructible with a concerted effort. Attackers and defenders will start the fight separated 150 meters from each other.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Fox McCloud is as he appears in the Star Fox series, piloting the fully upgraded Arwing in all-range mode as seen in Star Fox 64 in from the nearest convenient location to his team. He has no bombs. He may leave the cockpit but will only have his Blaster from Star Fox: Assault if he does so.

~VS~

Kirby is as seen in the Kirby Super Star and Smash series. He has full use of his Smash Brothers Moveset along with the moves from his Sword, Fire and Ice forms. (He has also inhaled Fox's Arwing, gaining a set of moves fitting it). He cannot inhale enemy fighters nor create helpers from his abilities during the match, but can inhale anything else and will not lose access to his forms due to taking damage. He is piloting the fully upgraded Arwing in all-range mode as seen in Star Fox 64 in from the nearest convenient location to his team. He has no bombs. He may leave the cockpit at any time.

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A duel in the skies, in which only one mercenary can become...THE TOP GUN. FIGHT!
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@Johnbobb
@Tom_Bombadil

The floor is yours for this match. Go!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvH5EMLQ_t8
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Tom's argument:

Straight one on one dogfight. Too bad he can't beat me- I got a bettah ship!

FOX
-A lot more training and experience in aerial combat
-No stranger to dueling ships of very similar (or even better!) capabilities- just look at all the Star Wolf fights.
-Kirby has homefield advantage...but it's some clouds. How much is that really gonna matter? Fox has had to adapt on the fly to much more complicated and treacherous locales (see: Venom) so I don't see him being so completely befuddled that a rookie pilot (with Kirby's keen strategic mind) will be able to exploit that enough to make a difference.
-Should Arwing vs. Base Kirby somehow happen, I think Smash gives us a good idea of how lopsided that'd be. It's a puffball fighting a spaceship, and if previous mercses are any indication, I remember Kirby being dumb and bad :(

KIRBY, ACE PILOT
-I'm not sure how well he can even reach and maneuver the controls with his little stubby arms and no fingers!
-I'm not sure whether it's canon or just popular fan theory, but Star Fox pilots have amputated legs in order to handle the G-Forces. If that is canon, I don't see Kirby handling that particularly well- might at least rule out some of the cooler maneuvers the Arwing can handle.
-Kirby is generally interpreted as being not REALLY as good as what he's copying, so I think he's a slightly inferior pilot at best, even if the above points don't do anything for you.
-He's also, just...not quite clever enough to outmaneuver Fox.

KIRBY, ACE ARWING
-Even when Kirby is transformed (like the UFO), he tends to have more Kirby-like parameters than transformation-like parameters. He doesn't gain Sonic's speed, or DK's power, (or Kirby enemies' fragility) just their moves. A Kirbwing is not gonna hold up against an Arwing very long, even if it will be more natural for him!
-I also imagine that would give him Fire and Ice, but I don't know what that will help
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Johnbobb's argument:

Kirby and his trusted Arwing, finally reunited, and ready to face their true rival.

This is not going to be a shutout one way or the other. This is going to be an epic battle. Now Fox may be the one with the pilot's license, but Kirby returns from Mercs 4 canon with plenty of combat flight experience.

Now, let's get into the heads of these two. Fox is trained in Arwing combat, but has he ever BEEN an Arwing? I would argue not! Kirby has literally been an Arwing, and thereby knows the inner workings of the vehicle better than even the most experienced pilot can.

But let's not disrespect Fox here. These two soar around Kirby's homefield of Bubbly Clouds, Kirby's knowledge of the skies strongly countering Fox's flight intuition.

They match hits. Blow for blow. Blast for blast. There has seldom been a more adequately matched pair. The night wears on, the sky darkening, but neither shows hesistation. As their ships weaken, their wills only grow stronger!

And then it happens. Kirby lands a killing blow to Fox's Arwing. Fox returns the blow, and both are spiralling down. The fight has gone to a draw as both barrel roll toward a fiery death. They have no choice to abandon ship and leap to safety on the majestic clouds as their ships exlode in the distance.

BUT WAIT. WHAT IS THIS?!

It appears that, yet again, Kirby has transformed into the legendary KIRBWING. After coming to an even 1v1 fight, the weakened Fox is left fighting Kirby, who has become a sentient Arwing all his own!

Poor Fox, always vigilant, is simply unprepared to handle a 2nd living Arwing after both of their original ships have been scrapped. And as his fate is sealed, the Kirbwing soars off into the distance, eager for his next challenge.
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this is dumb
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fox
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Arti posted...

this is dumb

I think you mean AWESOME
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Fox
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In my heart of hearts, I know fox wins this.

But I really desperately want to vote Kirby after that writeup from jb.
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In response to John's opener:
-I don't see Kirby surviving an Arwing crash (to be fair, I don't see Fox doing so either?)
-I don't agree he gets M4 memories!
-how would "knowing the inner workings" give him an edge if he did?
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Eddv posted...

In my heart of hearts, I know fox wins this.

But I really desperately want to vote Kirby after that writeup from jb.

Guess I'm not the only one huh

Like this is legit interesting to me and I wouldn't rush to voting for it, because yeah Fox is probably the better pilot, but Kirby is a mini arwing and gets a second chance. It's tricky IMO.
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Eddv posted...

In my heart of hearts, I know fox wins this.

But I really desperately want to vote Kirby after that writeup from jb.

I am half rooting for Kirby and I am Fox's leader >_>
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I'm confused, is Kirby piloting an airwing or is he an airwing?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Now, let's get into the heads of these two. Fox is trained in Arwing combat, but has he ever BEEN an Arwing? I would argue not! Kirby has literally been an Arwing, and thereby knows the inner workings of the vehicle better than even the most experienced pilot can.

I don't think this is true. Like, I'm a human but I don't understand the inner workings of the human body like a surgeon or athletic trainer does!
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MZero11 posted...

I'm confused, is Kirby piloting an airwing or is he an airwing?

I believe the short answer is "yes"

The long answer is that he's piloting one but can also turn into one >_> (but like I said, I think becoming one would be a lot weaker!)
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or at least, like, an arwing hat
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Yes, Kirby is piloting a full-sized Arwing and is ALSO in Arwing form. Which could mean anything from 'he's basically riding the UFO form' to 'he's a literal mini arwing'.
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Everybody knows that when Kirby is falling after an explosion he does that tumble fall thing and therefore would not be able to change forms before he fell to his death

Science
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this isn't canon but I want it to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H10Tl3sTpWM
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Serious answer, though

I think the difference in Arwing skill between Fox and Kirby is too great for Kirby's weaker second chance to even matter
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Fox

In a relatively equal fight, I have to give it to Fox for a single reason. Experience. Fox has a lot more understanding of the Arwing, how it works, and more importantly how to fight against other ships like the Arwing, after all, there was all the fights against the Wolfen class ships.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txWWi2n76FI

Kirby doesn't need understanding of how the Arwing works. Dude has the power and has shown he knows how to intuit these kinda things, and so he will naturally excel at it, exceeding the capabilities of the original as he is wont to do. Good instincts!
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This would have been a better one-on-one fight sans Arwings. Kirby tries to suck Fox. Fox drops the reflector. Kirby sucks himself and disappears into nothingness.
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what's he gonna do, breathe fire at me?
https://youtu.be/d_Z1h_H5wpQ?t=56s
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Lopen posted...

Kirby doesn't need understanding of how the Arwing works. Dude has the power and has shown he knows how to intuit these kinda things, and so he will naturally excel at it, exceeding the capabilities of the original as he is wont to do. Good instincts!

This

One of Kirby's best skills is being great at things immediately upon using them.

Take Planet Robobot for an example. Kirby discovers a crashed mech suit, jumps in, and is instantly a master at using it.
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Lopen posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txWWi2n76FI

Kirby doesn't need understanding of how the Arwing works. Dude has the power and has shown he knows how to intuit these kinda things, and so he will naturally excel at it, exceeding the capabilities of the original as he is wont to do. Good instincts!

I'm not sure this is logical.

Kirby is good with a Sword in his sword form because it's an extension of the form. The Arwing isn't an extension of the Arwing form, so it doesn't follow that he'd automatically be good at it.

He'd exceed at BEING an Arwing, not being in one!
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Johnbobb posted...

Lopen posted...

Kirby doesn't need understanding of how the Arwing works. Dude has the power and has shown he knows how to intuit these kinda things, and so he will naturally excel at it, exceeding the capabilities of the original as he is wont to do. Good instincts!

This

One of Kirby's best skills is being great at things immediately upon using them.

Take Planet Robobot for an example. Kirby discovers a crashed mech suit, jumps in, and is instantly a master at using it.

Temptation levels....spiking
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Yeah Kirby makes sense here. Like...Johnbobb is right. Kirby ISN'T the robobot, he is PILOTING it. And he masters that ASAP. I don't have issues seeing him get up to Fox's level, and if he loses by inches, the kirbwing form is enough to take it home against a highly damaged Arwing imo. This isn't a stomp, it's a very close battle.
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People voting kirby here are just being cute. This is not even in the stratosphere of being close.
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Eddv posted...

In my heart of hearts, I know fox wins this.

But I really desperately want to vote Kirby after that writeup from jb.

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yeah i think a second arwing is enough to give kirby the edge

kirby games have some space shooter segments (admittedly cartoonish) so he should have some idea of what to do from that as well...not to mention that a 1v1 in the opponent's area of expertise is kind of his thing - see meta knight
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Fox routinely 1v4's Star Wolf when they're using technically better craft than him. I don't see him losing a 1v1+1.
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BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE

and it's coming right out of Planet Robobot too

MAJOR MAJOR SPOILERS

https://youtu.be/C7y6A8_Zpvc?t=803
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Fox stomps tbqh
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How is Kirby surviving getting shot down, to come back with his knockoff arwing form? I'm not aware of there being an ejector mechanism or anything (it's a spaceship, after all), nor is he tanky enough to survive a crash.

I still don't think the controls are gonna be too great for him anyway, and even if you DO give him technical expertise to match Fox (I don't- the copy is never as good) I still don't think he can out strategize him.
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Really should've posted that video in my argument, actually

In short, in Planet Robobot, Kirby mech-absorbs the Halberd, turning into a Kirbified Halberd, which he then pilots to take down the final boss in space
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kirby routinely gets weird overhype
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did somebody say taking down final bosses in space? because that's kinda something fox has done a few times
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FFDragon posted...

kirby routinely gets weird overhype

wish that coulda happened when I had him!
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FFDragon posted...

kirby routinely gets weird underhype

fixed that for you
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hey I had him too once upon a time
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Tom Bombadil posted...

did somebody say taking down final bosses in space? because that's kinda something fox has done a few times

Exactly! Which puts Kirby and Fox on even ground

except for the fact that Kirby turns into a mini-Arwing as well, which gives him that slight edge
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Kirby can pilot the Robobot armor because it's literally designed for things shaped exactly like him. The Haltworker grunts that pilot them are basically black Kirbys

The Arwing is definitely a different situation.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

FFDragon posted...

kirby routinely gets weird overhype

wish that coulda happened when I had him!

Hard to when Wang deliberately tries to overnerf him in match topics imo
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Never give up! Trust your instincts (Fox)!

But yeah Fox is a better Arwing pilot by a huge margin imo
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greengravy294 posted...

Never give up! Trust your instincts (Fox)!

But yeah Fox is a better Arwing pilot by a huge margin imo

Same pool. You can't vote in the match. Same with johnbobbs vote in our match.
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Is that actually a rule. If so I've made a good few invalid votes so far I think.
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Lopen posted...

Is that actually a rule. If so I've made a good few invalid votes so far I think.

same here
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Luis_Sera89 posted...

Fox routinely 1v4's Star Wolf when they're using technically better craft than him. I don't see him losing a 1v1+1

very true, Fox often has to do heavy lifting for his lesser teammates

Fox
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did kirby inhale fox or the arwing? im confus ed
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