Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Lightning/Kyo/Alucard /Morrigan/Tira vs. Crono/Sabin/Leon /Terra

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lightning, Kyo Kusanagi, Alucard, Morrigan and Tira have challenged Crono, Sabin, Leon Kennedy and Terra Branford to a fight! Location of the fight: Mt Kolts - Winding paths, bridges, and cave systems make up the mountain that is the site of Sabin's battle with Vargas. Access to the rest of the world is banned and no monsters, bears or rogue martial art students are present. Attackers start at the entrance to the mount, with defenders starting at the site of the boss fight with Vargas. Which side will win?

Guidelines
- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Lightning is as she appears in the endgame of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, with a schemata set-up featuring a balance of her strongest physical, magical and debuffing skills and equipment, and with limited use of Curaga.

Kusanagi Kyo is as seen in the King of Fighters: Online, at max level with a kusanagi sword, assassin's bloody blade, ranger's crossbow, dancer's blade, scimitar, and killer boots, though he hasn't purchased any pills. He will protect Lightning to the best of his ability during battles.

Alucard is as he appears through the second castle of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. He is equipped with the Cross, has access to his best non-broken equipment and relics up to that point, and does not have the Shield Rod or his intro equipment. He has the Mist relic, but no Mist time extension or poison. The only familiar he has with him is the Bat, which summons more bats to help Alucard when he transforms.

Morrigan is as seen in Dragon Age: Origins and Inquisition (though she has not drank from the Well of Sorrows), with typical endgame equipment and 3 Lyrium Potions. She has mastered the first three spells of the Lightning, Cold, Shapeshifter, Anti-Magic, Healing, Enhancements spell trees, and Mind Blast.

Tira is as she appears in Soul Calibur V, with access to all her moves, although she must charge her Critical Edge/Brave Edge moves before using them.
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~VS~

Crono is as he appears in Chrono Trigger (DS), with his best non-broken equipment and all his techs save for Life. Dual/Triple techs with other Crono Trigger characters are allowed.

Sabin Figaro is as he appears at the end of FF6A. He comes to battle equipped with Tigerfang, Godhand, Red Jacket, Red Cap, Genji Glove, and Hero's Ring. He is able to cast all spells from the espers Alexander and Gilgamesh, though he may not summon them.

Leon Scott Kennedy is as he appears in Resident Evil 6, equipped with a knife, dual Wing Shooters, Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle, Lightning Hawk, some hand grenades, and the Chicago Typewriter (from Resident Evil 4).

Terra Branford is as she appears in Dissidia and at the end of FF6A, equipped with full Genji armour, Apocalypse, a Hero Ring, and a Gold Hairpin. She has all her natural magic, as well as those gained from Unicorn and Bahamut, including Raise, Arise, Teleport, Break, Graviga, and Meltdown. She will be in Trance form (which also grants her access to EX mode) for the entire fight.

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Clash of the leading ladies! Who's the queen of Final Fantasy? FIGHT!
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@eaedwards6400
@MajinZidane

Your match is up. Go nuts!
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fuck as much as I hate to say it

is there anything stopping lightning from soloing?
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FFDragon posted...

fuck as much as I hate to say it

is there anything stopping lightning from soloing?

ex-mode Terra will probably keep her from outright soloing the match, but there's still four other people on her team

Team Lightning
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FFDragon posted...

fuck as much as I hate to say it

is there anything stopping lightning from soloing?

Getting petrified (Break = Petrify) or Graviga'd then Ultima'd for double power probably helps with that some

Though yes, the question is if Lightning SOLOS or not.
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Break is banned I thought.
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I mean I see it in the writeup, but I still thought it was.
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FFDragon posted...

Break is banned I thought.

Nah, Terra is in special unnerfed mode, check her writeup. Basically Gravy sent her to the unbought pool, eaed fished her up with Epoch, and this means she's in broken permatrance mode with access to Graviga, Arise (revive on death automatically) and the instant kill of petrification. It's a funny quirk of her final build, she hulks up if she leaves her team and then returns to the battlefield like whoa.
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Oh I skimmed permatrance whoops

Then yeah Lightning doesn't solo.

But she probably still puts the beatdown on her while everyone else beats down the others.
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Considering Alucard jobs really fast to Break here... Terra does have better support, given that Sabin has a support build.

Toss in the mountainous terrain and the fact that Leon is the only gunner on the field and this is a match.
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If Leon had turned Lightning into a G-Type (don't know if it was available to do so) I'd say Terror Baltimore could do it.

As is I don't think so.
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Teleport, Graviga, Break, and Meltdown make for a lot of pause that flips an otherwise Lightning solos situation to Terra doing most of it. With teleporting, Leon may bes good enough backup
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FFDragon posted...

If Leon had turned Lightning into a G-Type (don't know if it was available to do so) I'd say Terror Baltimore could do it.

As is I don't think so.

Kyo eats anything aimed at Light i think
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Also worth keeping in mind that light probably loses any drawn out battle with Terra because terra has access to more healing.
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if I had a vote it'd probably be for unnerfed terra
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basically I see Lightning casting Haste and Bravery on herself and smashing anything she sees with Army of One

Lightning is too ridiculous
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This is not an open and shut case be made against my team. If we have Sabin cast haste on Terra. She is going to be casting spells at an alarmingly fast pace. And not just any spell but powerful spells. As already mentioned, Alucard is going to be very vulnerable to Break so she is going to be able to get him petrified and he basically becomes a nonfactor. Kyo is not really a number advantage here because he is going to be too busy protecting Lightning to do any really damage so that is really on going to be Morrigan and Tiro. So lets get to Morrigan and Tira vs Terra, Crono, Sabin, and Leon. So then we can have Terra weaken the rest of Lightnings team down with AOE spells including Graviga to weaken the rest of Lightnings team. Sabin, Crono, and Leon can take them out with ease. Not to mention that Leon will likely to a high point in the terrain to take out people with distance shooting. No one from their teams is going to be able to fight from a distance away like Leon can and as argued against me in my last fight, Leon excels from a distance. Add that with the power of Sabin after he casts Haste on his allies this is his home terrain. He's fought here he has trained here you can argue that he knows it like the back of his hand. It has even been argued this week that Crono would do a number on Tira in his own right. So if Crono takes on Tira that leaves Sabin and Leon to take on Morrigan while Terra is still dominating with fast and powerful spells. So I think that the team could overwhelm Lightnings team before lightning really damages my team too much. So when the rest of their team is down. It is a minimum of 4 on 1. Kyo is likely to go down with the rest of the protecting Lightning from Terra. And I haven't had Terra use EX Mode yet. Terras spells are doing twice the damage in EX Mode and she can shoot spells at twice the speed as before. If you have Crono and Sabin hitting Lightning from behind while she also being snipped at by Leon it would be easy to see that we would just have the numbers on Lightning to pull this thing off.
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Arti posted...

basically I see Lightning casting Haste and Bravery on herself and smashing anything she sees with Army of One

Lightning is too ridiculous

My entire team has the ability to be hasted to keep up with her.
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Can Lightning actually get to Terra

I mean unnerfed permatrance Terra is probably flying nonstop and throwing spells. I don't give Terra a ton of respect normally but in this form I'm not sure she can be stopped.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Raise, Arise, Teleport, Break, Graviga, and Meltdown. She will be in Trance form (which also grants her access to EX mode) for the entire fight.

alright home now so lemme go through this...

Teleport - has her teleport the party in the game. simple enough, she can teleport herself and her allies. don't think this has evidence of usage against enemies so won't bother with that. i mean, forced teleportation is a thing even in the FF worlds but... don't think it's shown as something she can do so whatever.

Graviga - a few interps possible for this. first thing to be clear is that the in-game effect is a 75% cut to the opponent's HP. 3/4 of their life, gone in one hit. personally, gravity spells are magic that creates a gravity field that, in addition to slowing them down, also inflicts damage through those forces. this is what matches the flavor text and the effects in a few games/similar games (XI, KH, Dissidia). considering that Gravity is a Bravery attack that Terra uses in Dissidia which a) drags the enemy, b) damages the enemy, and c) stuns the enemy, i'm pretty sure this fits the bill best as almost all the not-turnbased games have these effects. also bear in mind that the attack there is Gravity whereas this is Graviga, a tier higher. this is honestly the biggest issue of the match because if she nails this, Lightning suddenly is heavily damaged, slowed down, possibly stunned, and either Terra can follow it up or she's slowed down enough that Leon might be able to.

a weaker interp of this would be more gameplay focused: this is just a 3/4 cut. as in she uses this one spell, boom, 75% damage to the enemy in a large AoE. simply going Graviga -> Meltdown/Flare/Holy should settle it for most cases and since she's in Esper/Trance form, this shouldn't take long or demand any effort. Kyo can't really protect her against large AoE spells, he'd just kinda... die in the process.


Break - causes petrification. straightforward enough. coupled with the gravity issue, could become a bigger one.


also for reference, Arise = full life/life 2. it's not auto-life, kan.
but this is basically an issue where, if Terra does hit the other team with Graviga, she can essentially win the match. considering that Sabin should know where they are very well and Terra probably has a good idea having been in this place before too canonically, they've got good terrain knowledge and the means to get around. add in that the terrain has "Winding paths, bridges, and cave systems," plenty of brutal chokepoints to be had. ...or, if you're creative with gravity magic, broken bridges and cave-ins for your opponents.
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Teleport - has her teleport the party in the game. simple enough, she can teleport herself and her allies. don't think this has evidence of usage against enemies so won't bother with that. i mean, forced teleportation is a thing even in the FF worlds but... don't think it's shown as something she can do so whatever.

I hadnt even thought of this.

Leon under these conditions is really dangerous.
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With Teleport Leon is even more dangerous. You think you know where Leon is and then he is suddenly able to swap Leons location to somewhere else.
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well, leon probably can't snipe them very easily. Kyo and Lightning can normally handle bullets well enough, Kyo's in a series with sniper bullet blockers (as that other topic referenced), including some significantly under his pay grade. based on FF13 getting more absurd every iteration, i assume Lightning can too. but that's just normally, not in combat trying to shoot down a flying mage or if Graviga hits.
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If nothing else, by time we get to Leon sniping Lightning, even if he is more of a distraction, that means Leon could be annoying enough that she might take her attention off of Terra enough to be beaten down by Terra's spells even more.
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Yeah on Mt Koltz I think I'm giving the edge to the flying pink rage monster. Just plays to her strengths a lot more, and no one's really equipped to deal with her.

Team Terra
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Team Terra

I read the topic title and laughed that this was a match. I saw Terra's write up and stopped laughing.
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Oh whoops, sorry Wang. Good catch.

Also I want to point out two things:

A) Graviga and Break automatically hit before magic evasion. Hitrates of 100 and 120 are kinda nice like that.
B) Sabin's support suite is really good yo. I don't know if it's come up before, but Sabin has Valor, an FF6A special spell from Gilgamesh. Valor triples the damage of the next physical attack for the entire party. Imagine if a Persona/SMT dude could cast a 300% Power Charge that worked teamwide and you got the idea here. So 300% sniping from Leon, 300% Frenzy from Crono, etc. Add to this that Sabin also gets Quick for self-usage (or Terra's usage...as per the conventions, characters can share equipment and 'yo let's give the doubleturn move to super Terra' seems like a kind of obvious thing, doubly so since her and Sabin are from the same game), and he's not a joke by any stretch.

Also worth noting...

Arti posted...

basically I see Lightning casting Haste and Bravery on herself and smashing anything she sees with Army of One

Lightning is too ridiculous

Lightning has not a single buff in her LR appearance. N O N E.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Lightning_Returns:_Final_Fantasy_XIII_abilities

See for yourself. She has debuffs aplenty, but buffs? ahahaha no. Pick twelve abilities from this list. That's all she's got.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

300% sniping from Leon

disagree with this interp

the gun doesn't get buffed
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Also worth noting: Lightning has a limited amount of Esunas she can pull off if you think she spell races Terra. Esunada is the only version she has and it costs EP. To make a long story short, EP (or Energy Points) are a resource Lightning uses for her most valuable techniques, such as her timeslow or her Limit Break, Army of One 3.0. She has a total of 9 EP available to her. So she can cure 9 ailments, no more than that...and that's if she's purely using her EP defensively. I don't know about you guys, but I feel like this battle isn't over in nine casts of Break.
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FFDragon posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

300% sniping from Leon

disagree with this interp

the gun doesn't get buffed

IIRC it buffs Edgar's autocrossbow, so don't see why not. Obviously it's interp, but if something gunlike gets the benefits Leon probably should. Even so though, triple damage from Crono and Sabin is pretty nice and means their opening volleys can do serious damage.
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It just makes zero sense. The gun doesn't impart any additional force no matter how big your muscles are.
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autocrossbow being buffed seems gameplay mechanics to me
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Its magic.

The bullets hit harder because magic.

Its not like there arent guns in final fantasy and the same mechanics are in play in SMT where they use a lot of guns.
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It's magic that boosts physical attacks.

I don't count guns as physical attacks because there is nothing physical about it tbqh.
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i concur with my colleague ffdragon
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Im just saying we're talking about a series where a guy throws playing cards and hits as hard as a sword or a spear or a gun (ultima weapon)

asking for logic to apply isnt the most fruitful.
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asking for logic in illogical situations is the foundation of mercs
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Gau can fire a gun at someone just by pretending to be a guy he once saw using a gun
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dunno why you're hung up on 300% gun damage when you actually have a character with "broken" spells that circumvents the typical "broken" clause that does far more "broken" things than amplify a single bullet into 3 bullets.
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Alternately, if you boost say Vincent's strength in FFVII his attacks would do more damage. Why would this be different?
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greengravy294 posted...

dunno why you're hung up on 300% gun damage when you actually have a character with "broken" spells that circumvents the typical "broken" clause that does far more "broken" things than amplify a single bullet into 3 bullets.

Mostly because it can matter down the line probably. My respect for Leon definitely increases a lot if his first ambush shot is pretty much guaranteed to explode some poor dude's head into fine mist.
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yeah, what gravy said there. i mean i get that it's a possible argument to work with thanks to the buff working on edgar's crossbow but petrification and a 75% cut to HP/heavy gravity effects that utterly ruin people in an AOE are just better. add in her being in trance/esper mode where she's got flight, speed, and casting speed all in one? yeah. ruin 'em with gravity and nuke 'em/snipe 'em.
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sounds like either you think it works or if you don't think it works

i don't think it works.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Alternately, if you boost say Vincent's strength in FFVII his attacks would do more damage. Why would this be different?

I also consider this gameplay mechanics.
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greengravy294 posted...

sounds like either you think it works or if you don't think it works

i don't think it works.

Can you explain this for me then?

eaedwards6400 posted...

Alternately, if you boost say Vincent's strength in FFVII his attacks would do more damage. Why would this be different?

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mm... edgar, vincent, eddv has a point with setzer too.

hell, it'd work on the Magitek armor too wouldn't it?
i mean i get the argument, i just am more entertained by the fact that it's being made really clear why broken means broken.
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if you believe that buffs are strictly applied to the individual, buffs shouldn't work to foreign weapons. what does a buffed gun mean, exactly? is the bullet faster? does the bullet itself just have extra penetration power, which in turn changes the impact had of the target?

swords or melee weapons are easier, it's based on that person's strength and we're assuming the swords or whatever ain't so weak they can't take the extra pressure against 'em.
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FWIW btw, going over the characters on Boko's team and how they handle Terra's broken spells:

-Morrigan: Actually really valuable because she has Dispel Magic to erase status effects and healing to tend to her team. Liable to be Leon's priority target for this exact reason.
-Kyo: Poor guy. Really bad terrain/situation for him.
-Tira: Poor Tira :(
-Alucard: If he gets Break'd he's FUCKED. We all remember being petrified by medusa heads I bet. Medusa Heads are much worse at this than Terra I think.
-Lightning: Can spell race but only a limited amount. Has magic to shoot back at Terra, but an interesting fact about Lightning is that most of her big spells are hot garbage in Lightning Returns. The way that game works is that you spam -ra spells for stagger (especially Aerora, which is probably her super core spell because it's the best at it), then you go in with melee. By contrast, something like Ultima takes a shitload of AP for a single hit of damage that is going to run into the damage cap all of her attacks can reach, and has a long-ass casting time (six-eight seconds?). What she might want to use is Magnet to pull her in, but I think it's not unlimited range so it might not do enough.
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(fwiw I am leaning terror baltimore now, but I want to hear boko's side of things first

I just disagree vehemently with that buff interpretation)
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