Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Lightning/Morrigan/ Dizzy/Poison/Ansem v Kefka/Shlk/ Sorey/Flynn v Kuja

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kefka, Shulk, Sorey, Lailah and Flynn have challenged Lightning, Morrigan, Dizzy, Poison and Ansem, as well as Kuja to a fight! Location of the fight: Grove - A forbidden area of the Devil's Forest where Dizzy attempts to seclude herself from the rest of the world, as it appears in Guilty Gear XX. Attackers and defenders will start separated by a distance of 10 meters.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Sorey is as he appears in Tales of Zestiria, with all orbs and talismans (though they buff only himself and his seraphim) and an endgame skill build. He enters the battle with 5 Blast Gauges and may armatize freely with his seraphim and Kefka during the course of the battle, but armatization cannot be used to revive anyone. He does not have access to Siegfried.

Lailah, Mikleo, Edna and Dezel are accompanying Sorey into battle. They are as they appear in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. They will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges, and will be permanently invisible and inaudible to Flynn, Morrigan, Poison and Shulk. Only one Seraph may be on the battlefield at a time, with Lailah beginning on the battlefield, and the others dwelling inside him. He may swap between them as seen in the game, and inactive seraphim will heal gradually over time, including from death, but they are considered defeated once Sorey is killed.

Flynn is as he appears by the end of Shin Megami Tensei IV, equipped with only the Plasma Sword, Plasma Gun, Almighty Rounds, White King armor set, and Hero Earrings. The only skills he has are all -dyne level elemental spells, Great logos, Spiritual focus, Luster candy and Salvation. The only apps he has are MP Recovery 2 and Auto-Pinpoint, and he cannot summon.

Kefka is as he appears in FF6A in the last battle, having access to all attacks and skills from the fight aside from Trine and Heartless Angel. He additionally has all his Brave and HP attacks from Dissidia: Final Fantasy, as well as the Exhilarating Magic skill.

Shulk is as he appears in Xenoblade Chronicles, with all arts and skill trees learned and fully upgraded. He is equipped with the Monado II and Glory set of armour. Shulk also has access to his Super Smash Bros 4. version of Monado Arts, though they only affect him and have their drawbacks as well.
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~VS~

Morrigan is as seen in Dragon Age: Origins and Inquisition (though she has not drank from the Well of Sorrows), with typical endgame equipment and 3 Lyrium Potions. She has mastered the first three spells of the Lightning, Cold, Shapeshifter, Enhancement, Hexes and Anti-Magic spell trees, and Mind Blast.

Poison is as she appears in Ultra Street Fighter IV and Final Fight Revenge, with access to all her super moves, provided she builds up the meter to use them. She will lose 1/8th of her maximum health every minute from an incurable poison effect.

Ansem, Seeker of the Darkness is as he appears in his first two phases of the final boss fight in Kingdom Hearts. He may freely summon Xehanort's Guardian and use all of his attacks from both KH1 and Chain of Memories. Riku will not influence him and he may not summon Darkside or any other heartless.

Lightning is as she appears in the endgame of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, with a schemata set-up featuring a balance of her strongest physical, magical and debuffing skills and equipment, and with limited use of Curaga.

Dizzy is as she appears in the Guilty Gear series, at the height of her powers, with access to all her moves other than gameplay mechanics, and she will not self destruct upon defeat. She will not engage in combat of her own choice unless attacked first.

~VS~

Kuja is as seen in Final Fantasy IX under the effects of Trance, with all of his spells and abilities shown within, though he may not use Ultima. Additionally, he has access to all of his Brave/HP attacks from Dissidia, though the actual Brave/HP mechanics do not apply. He will fight as a neutral in battle, hostile to everyone.

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Behold, the awe of a godly shepherd and the Awe of She! FIGHT!
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@greengravy294
@MajinZidane

The floor is yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_662pJDtRg
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This fight is in melee range for Shulk which makes this a fairly good range for him to be at, obviously. Shulk can shield his team from fatal attacks with Monado Shield and Speed. Since there's just Lightning and Dizzy who really can compare to the rest of his team (Poison and Morrigan are out of their element here) Shulk won't have his hands full protecting his team with his visions. Also there's Kuja. Oops forgot him.

Dizzy will not be immediately hostile which is pretty good. Whenever she enters the engagement it will be moments into the battle. In such a small arena, these seconds can be pretty crucial. For what it's worth she will probably by hit by some sort of AOE (Flynn's Great Logos hits all enemies; so does Kefka's Goner). Shulk is very effective against robots, too. Surely he's very effective against a half-gear/half-human!

Anyway Sorey armatized with Lailah is a beast in melee range. He can also armatize with Kefka for a huge parameter boost and be unequaled in power in this fight. The various Seraphim on the field have magical abilities that can buff, steal buffs (whatever Morrigan can use with Enhancement, for instance) as well as deal damage and heal. They are pretty versatile.

Flynn here has access to Spirit Focus (200% self buff to magic) and Great Logos (an Almighty spell that regularly shows lesser demons to be disintegrated). He also has Salvation to heal his party and Luster Candy that applies buffs -- though I don't think much buffing is going to occur in this fight but yeah. He also has good reaction feats (dodging lightning from Odin) and a plasma gun (and sword)!!

TL;DR: Shulk has great reflexes and can protect his party with Monado artes. Dizzy isn't initially hostile which takes her out of the fight briefly. Beyond her initial disinterest in fighting, there's four highly competent fighters plus a Seraphim against Lightning and Dizzy. Also Shulk deals with laser beams in Xenoblade from Mechons so he can be effective against Dizzy.

Shulk reaction featz btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwqoqnDdYUM&feature=youtu.be&t=12
https://youtu.be/bSbeIJZgKDw?t=182
https://youtu.be/rgERZsyAMWI?t=188

addendum: Kuja is also here so uh, he indiscriminantly attacks everyone, who knows what he does. Maybe he gets the ire of Dizzy. WHO KNOWS.
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Normally, in close range like this, I think Dizzy's pacifism clause is pretty useless. Enemy opens fire immediately, self-defense kicks in, and there's basically no difference from a normal fight.

BUT Shulk has precognition.

Is Shulk's precog broad enough to show him something like "if we don't attack her, she won't attack us"? Or is he limited to death visions? (which would tell him "dodge/shield here to avoid getting nuked" but wouldn't be nuanced enough to tip him off not to attack in the first place)
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Death visions I think? He sees dooms, so I think that's a bit out of reach.

...Plus, y'know. Kefka. That dude is a thing and he's not gonna give a damn about aggroing Dizzy or not.
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Well Drakeryn in the second link I posted Shulk has an extended vision of Metal Face's actions causing some spire to impale him and stuff.

Also Shulk has entire visions of the future too, but I'm unsure of the context there.
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Also it's true that Kefka's just going to PROBABLY try to blow everyone up.

But she's not going to attack immediately, so it does actually neuter her a bit. One less threat for Shulk to protect at the start is far more manageable imo, considering how potent Monado Shield can be.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Plus, y'know. Kefka. That dude is a thing and he's not gonna give a damn about aggroing Dizzy or not.

this is true
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Yeah, early on Shulk has visions of stuff that happens later in the game. It's about a bunch of stuff, not just people dying. He also gets visions about needing items when you pick up a quest item before you take on that quest. So I buy him getting a vision telling him about Dizzy's pacifism.
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how would a pacifism vision even work

like he sees events, all he would really see is someone striking back after being hit. seems like a stretch to see that and go, oh hey. they only attack if i attack them first
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X_Dante_X posted...

how would a pacifism vision even work

like he sees events, all he would really see is someone striking back after being hit. seems like a stretch to see that and go, oh hey. they only attack if i attack them first

well, he could (maybe) see two potential futures: one where they attack her and she attacks back, and one where they don't attack her and she like runs off to avoid fighting

but yeah Kefka makes this argument moot
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well i do mostly agree. but i feel like if the vision is along the lines of GameFAQs Dizzy Shulk would see that Dizzy retaliates w/ the nuke attack which is 'bad'. Shulk does see alot of cause and effect stuff.
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well I do think that there is a possibility that kefka goes after kuja on basis of them both being spellcasters and wanting to show his magical supremity.

but i didnt actually finish ff6, so this MAY BE WRONG.
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Dizzy's immediate retaliation would have to be pretty severe for Shulk to have a vision of her demeanor changing. He can't see how an entire 3 minute match would play out or anything like that.
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Kuja is a lot more likely to aggro Dizzy here I think. At this range Kefka is probably using Havoc Wing on aggressors, while Kuja is backing off and dropping AoEs
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In battle, visions are generally given about 15 seconds before any of Shulk's allies or himself are either KO'd or put to like 20% or lower HP by an enemy attack, though it also can give it in advance much longer depending on the severity of the attack. One of the examples is when fighting Egil, he has a move where he attempts to use the Mechonis sword to attack the Bionis, killing hundreds or thousands of people living on Bionis. Shulk has an in-battle vision of this at least a minute in advance to prevent it, despite being in the head of the Mechonis and not threatened by the attack.

By cutscenes, the visions are either nonstop or incredibly thorough, given he abuses them nonstop to do almost every single battle he has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgERZsyAMWI#t=3m10s
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Drakeryn posted...

Normally, in close range like this, I think Dizzy's pacifism clause is pretty useless. Enemy opens fire immediately, self-defense kicks in, and there's basically no difference from a normal fight.

BUT Shulk has precognition.

Is Shulk's precog broad enough to show him something like "if we don't attack her, she won't attack us"? Or is he limited to death visions? (which would tell him "dodge/shield here to avoid getting nuked" but wouldn't be nuanced enough to tip him off not to attack in the first place)

Can you include the Poison passive in the write-up
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Can you include the Poison passive in the write-up

Tch, I could've sworn I put that in...

Addendum to Dizzy's writeup: She will follow Poison's orders in combat, though this will not override a berserk mentality.
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Shulk

Deeper team, more varied in their power houses, 100% less likely to get fucked by Kuja due to precog.
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Ok so with Poison doesn't matter if Shulk can pre-cog anticipate Dizzy or not -- Poison can tell Dizzy to attack and she will. Dizzy says she won't do it on her own choice, but it's not her own choice: it's Poison's.

I think that if Dizzy fights asap, which with Kuja or Kefka likely proccing and Poison oders, she will, it puts the fight in her favor here.
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I take it that only lasts as long as Poison is alive, which...is not going to be very long at all
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Once Poison is dead though, self-defense will have kicked in.
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true

however dizzy isn't getting any sort of first strike advantage here and that's what really matters. she's one less problem for shulk to have to protect at the onset of the fight which is very good.
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How long does it take for Poison to say, "Dizzy, use Nuke!"?
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aw yeah the GameFAQs Dizzy brigade's here.

anyway if she wants to nuke her entire party she's welcome to it, but shulk can AOE negate the attack for his team with monado shield so it sounds "pretty bad" in such a small terrain.
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If anything remotely resembling a strategy = "lol GameFAQS Dizzy" then sure, but I think this is trademark "Gravy whining when people assert things that counter his argument."

That being said, this is definitely a place where Shulk can be tearing it up, especially if he catches Dizzy before she takes to the skies. How exactly does his anti-mech stuff interact with Dizzy's status as a half-Gear? I don't really understand how "robot" that actually means.
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also she'd totally kill herself in such a small terrain this seems rather bad
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oh yeah the traditional ad hominem attack i certainly appreciate the hostility.
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Poison presumably doesn't want to get herself nuked to death, unless you can point me to her being the type to sacrifice herself for the greater good.
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Drakeryn posted...

Once Poison is dead though, self-defense will have kicked in.

True, but Dizzy will probably be hit by something if Poison is. Plus, the enemies aren't going to avoid Dizzy if she's following orders and attacking as instructed. Poison and Dizzy are "ideal teammates," so Poison is going to tell Dizzy to do something at the start of the fight. I'm not trying to argue that Poison orders an elaborate series of attacks on specific people using specific techniques, just that she tells her client to nuke something!
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Drakeryn posted...

Poison presumably doesn't want to get herself nuked to death, unless you can point me to her being the type to sacrifice herself for the greater good.

That's definitely a good point, she's the manager after all, she wants her "client" to make her look good, not kill her.
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sounds like you should have bought Glados and erased Dizzy's typical peaceful nature.

'cuz quite frankly she doesn't fend off attackers with big gunz and i don't see her wanting to kill her team -- let alone shulk being able to anticipate this and being able to nullify it with monado shield.
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I think Dizzys team is well suited vs Kuja as well. With Morrigans anti-magic spells, likely Lightning will have an edge on Kuja trancing around for a short length of time (which is a long-ass time in this fight) with a sheild from Morrigan on her
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greengravy294 posted...

sounds like you should have bought Glados and erased Dizzy's typical peaceful nature.

'cuz quite frankly she doesn't fend off attackers with big gunz and i don't see her wanting to kill her team -- let alone shulk being able to anticipate this and being able to nullify it with monado shield.

Glados doesn't work vs Dizzy's passive. Poison does. I suggest you try underhyping less and focus more on your boys. So far I have yet to hear why Lightning using Imperilga or Deprotectga doesn't completely fuck Shulk over. His gimmick is '#Megabuffz', Lightning's gimmick is '#Megadebuffz' and she's considerably faster than him between being naturally speedier before Monado boosts and having an ability that freezes time and lets her perform the single biggest limit break in Final Fantasy history.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I suggest you try underhyping less and focus more on your boys.

sounds like you're biased here, pal
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I also that Lightning's slew of mega debuffs will be super useful here vs Shulk in particular!
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greengravy294 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I suggest you try underhyping less and focus more on your boys.

sounds like you're biased here, pal

The interaction between the two mercs works, he's saying that flat out.
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Anyway I have said that Shulk can protect his team with monado shield which nuliifies fatal attacks so uh I don't know why I really need to speak much to Lightning's debuffing. She can make them take more damage from phys/magical skills but if he's going to both 1) speed up his team so they evade attacks and 2) nuliify attacks that will deal a shit ton of damage I don't see this being very much relevant at all.
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Voter's note: I think Gravy is focusing on a bad point here, making it seem like Dizzy's peaceful nature is crucial. It's actually not. She doesn't tip the scales for her team even when aggro'd.

Also if Kuja is in the middle he is just as likely to aggro Dizzy first.
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tl;dr on why Lightning is super important here and I want to hear something about her:

-She has no casttimes on her debuffs at all and has timehacks, so she's going to beat Flynn and Shulk at the buff/debuff game.
-She herself is physically pretty impressive and they aren't.
-Her team also has a really strong buff game on top because of Morrigan. With this setup Morrigan can inflict elemental vulnerabilities teamwide and then grant her team elementally aligned attacks if they lack them. It takes a whopping two seconds of casting time to do both these things combined. This means Lightning's already high physical strength is pretty amplified (to the tune of like a doubling plus the damage added by Morrigan's elemental enhancements themselves).

Like why are we talking about Dizzy so much? She's not her team's only powerhouse. Shulk doesn't get to play the support role here because Lightning is going to rampage all over his team and demolish them if he does. He needs to step up and fight, not play Vision Quest.
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Also Shulk uses his buffs on a need to use basis, as in he nullifies fatal damage as it occurs. So debuffs aren't very handy here. The power of the Monado is supreme
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monado abilities are instant cast too, shulk fights all the time in xenoblade cutscenes and in the game proper while aiding his team. him being some dedicated support is factually incorrect
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Kanz I feel like you should know that Vision Quest (...was that a dungeon in Persona 4?) is how he steps up and fights. There are several cutscenes where his eyes are glowing and he is shredding enemies. It's not an either or thing.
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greengravy294 posted...

Also Shulk uses his buffs on a need to use basis, as in he nullifies fatal damage as it occurs. So debuffs aren't very handy here. The power of the Monado is supreme

This doesn't answer who checks Lightning. Sorey can probably take care of Ansem, and Kefka and Kuja will keep Dizzy busy, but that leaves...who, Flynn to stop Lightning if Shulk doesn't get dragged into a swordfight with her? There's no chance that goes well for him.
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By the way, I stand by that Shulk is the 100% best team merc in mercs forever due to his power suite. I remember when I owned him people thought I was BSing because I am the hype man but Shulk is just straight up dumb.

Also I voted for his team because Sorey is a fucking monster by the way. I got to play his game since M4 good grief.
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greengravy294 posted...

Anyway I have said that Shulk can protect his team with monado shield which nuliifies fatal attacks so uh I don't know why I really need to speak much to Lightning's debuffing. She can make them take more damage from phys/magical skills but if he's going to both 1) speed up his team so they evade attacks and 2) nuliify attacks that will deal a shit ton of damage I don't see this being very much relevant at all.

Well, Shulk isn't going to have time to cast every buff he wants -- and even when he does, Lightning is well equipped to debuff them in a single action.

Morrigan can dispel as well with her anti-magic skills!
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i don't interpret the fight as you "interpret" it so i don't have much to say to you, sorry, just go ahead and vote the way you've been saying you'd vote ever since you have been hostile to me. thanks.
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like why wouldn't shulk fight

thats fucking insipid
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kefka & friends