Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - Says here 'Ragger' had 'Anal'... (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

CeraSeptem posted...

The first one Jon killed in Hardhome

This reminds me, no wights collapsed when he killed it, right? I guess it's possible that that particular Walker didn't raise any of the wights that were around.
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In before the war is lost and the undead are going apeshit through westeros. And, Jon Snow stabs Bran, who is the Night King, through the heart to kill the Night King before Bran ever went back and became him. The entire army shatters and Jon Snow takes the throne but is driven mad by having to kill his cousin.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

I'm getting worried that Dany and crew will eliminate the Lannister threat fully tomorrow, and next season will just be Fire vs. Ice. Hope I'm wrong and it's not that straight forward.

The iron bank is still a wild card left to play, and I'm not sure they make a play in the coming ep. Without that i think you need Cersei alive. Unless they show up on Cerseis side, in which case she still doesn't die.

So i think Cersei remains at power.

Euron has felt like the fish they are throwing us this season, so i feel like he dies somehow.

The chains were already there, there's a pontoon (errrr, crossing, some kind of ferry on a chain like in lotr when the wraith is chasing the Hobbits) on the lake.

And the one wight not falling apart makes perfect sense for the scouting party. You don't want all of your scouts immediately dying if someone kills the WW. So you keep one wight of your own (raised by the night king) to keep tabs on the scouting party and know where the enemy is.
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Bospsychopaat posted...

The chains were already there, there's a pontoon (errrr, crossing, some kind of ferry on a chain like in lotr when the wraith is chasing the Hobbits) on the lake.

And the one wight not falling apart makes perfect sense for the scouting party. You don't want all of your scouts immediately dying if someone kills the WW. So you keep one wight of your own (raised by the night king) to keep tabs on the scouting party and know where the enemy is.

Lol
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Bospsychopaat posted...

And the one wight not falling apart makes perfect sense for the scouting party. You don't want all of your scouts immediately dying if someone kills the WW. So you keep one wight of your own (raised by the night king) to keep tabs on the scouting party and know where the enemy is.

i considered this, but recently, the wights have not shown signs of being intelligent enough to be useful in that regard
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The intelligence of the wights is definitely not clear cut.

it's been inconsistent. S1's wights *pretended* to be dead until they were at castle black, at which point they reanimated and tried to assassinate the old bear. that's extremely high-level stuff - maybe the less decayed ones are more intelligent?

(edit) i'm purely speculating idly. i know that D&D almost certainly do not have consistent answers for us, either.
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I don't think the wights need any intelligence of their own. Seems to me like the walkers just basically have complete control over them.
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Bospsychopaat posted...

The chains were already there, there's a pontoon (errrr, crossing, some kind of ferry on a chain like in lotr when the wraith is chasing the Hobbits) on the lake.

And the one wight not falling apart makes perfect sense for the scouting party. You don't want all of your scouts immediately dying if someone kills the WW. So you keep one wight of your own (raised by the night king) to keep tabs on the scouting party and know where the enemy is.

would have been neat if this was established anywhere ever
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SeabassDebeste posted...

it's been inconsistent. S1's wights *pretended* to be dead until they were at castle black, at which point they reanimated and tried to assassinate the old bear. that's extremely high-level stuff - maybe the less decayed ones are more intelligent?

(edit) i'm purely speculating idly. i know that D&D almost certainly do not have consistent answers for us, either.

This is the second time you (or someone else) has said that.

I don't think anyone was pretending to be dead in S1. They were dead and didn't reanimate until they got to Castle Black.
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That might be the case, but I'm not sure it makes sense if the Wall is specifically designed to fight undead magic. I wouldn't imagine the White Walkers could reanimate something on the south side of the Wall.
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My Immortal posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

it's been inconsistent. S1's wights *pretended* to be dead until they were at castle black, at which point they reanimated and tried to assassinate the old bear. that's extremely high-level stuff - maybe the less decayed ones are more intelligent?

(edit) i'm purely speculating idly. i know that D&D almost certainly do not have consistent answers for us, either.

This is the second time you (or someone else) has said that.

I don't think anyone was pretending to be dead in S1. They were dead and didn't reanimate until they got to Castle Black.

I always just assumed it was a timing thing. Like it takes a while for a corpse to animate unless a White Walker does it directly.
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StifledSilence posted...

The Benjen ex-machina and the one Walker conveniently surviving to be captured were the only things that bugged me. Great episode otherwise.

This is where I stand as well. And I think Benjen ex Machina won't bother me as much in the coming years, although I imagine it'll bother the fanbase at-large more and more, haha.

The one wight surviving is really dumb though.
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I feel like this may have been the last time anyone goes beyond the Wall, so this was like their last chance to "resolve" the hanging Benjen plot. So they wrote for Jon to stay behind as a way for him to see Benjen. Though I mean they could've easily just had them find Benjen while on the hunt for a wight and still had him die while buying Jon enough time to get back on Drogon or whatever.
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Everyone's been focusing on Arya regressing in her character arc in the Winterfell scenes, but Sansa has been almost as bad. Every conversation she's had with Arya, she's handled in exactly the worst way she possibly can. It's not really her fault because Arya is really on the offensive here, but it still feels wrong. Sansa trying to turn her suffering into some sort of pissing contest was gross (but also, her suffering doesn't matter to Arya because she and Lyanna Mormont are huge badasses!). They want to show her being TOUGH AND STRONG but she's doing it in dumb ways that just make everything worse. Arya being paranoid at least makes a little sense, but Sansa's distrust of Arya doesn't work at all! It started because she was put off by seeing that Arya's a good fighter? She knew Arya would try to train with the boys at Winterfell and was actually learning swordfighting when they were in King's Landing together. Not sure why that's the breaking point.

I dunno, it just feels extremely unnatural to me. Hopefully the payoff is worth it.
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Okay. Let me see if I've got all of this right:
--Team Idiots, despite launching from the literal Obsidian Mine, did not bother to equip themselves with obsidian weaponry.
--Team Idiots is at least a 24-hour walk from the Wall. Presumably more.
--Team Idiots spends 24 hours surrounded by the entire Army of the Dead. During this time, Gendry runs all the way back to East-watch-by-the-sea, a raven is sent to Dragonstone, and Dany somehow flies all the way back up north.
--Dany somehow finds Team Idiots in the middle of hundreds and hundreds of miles of indistinguishable tundra.
--I literally could not tell who was getting hurt because literally everyone on Team Idiots looks the same to me because they've all got black hair, beards, are white, and are wearing the same clothes. I couldn't even make out the redness of Torgen's hair, the colors were so... saturated? Is that the right word? Whatever. Admittedly, that one's on me, but still! You could at least let the Red Priest wear red!
--Team Idiot's glorious leader, Jon Snow, is immune to cold now or something. This is somehow one of the least stupid things this episode.
--Despite our already having established that the Army of the Dead is LESS THAN 24 HOURS FROM EAST-WATCH-BY-THE-SEA, the characters still figure there's sufficient time to get to King's Landing, convince everybody re: Impending Doom, put all of everyone's armies on a bunch of boats, and sail north.
--And because of the writing quality of the show, they're gonna be right.

On the bright side: at least Team Idiots paid for their idiocy by giving the Night King a Blue-Eyes Wight Dragon in attack mode.
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mnkboy907 posted...

I feel like this may have been the last time anyone goes beyond the Wall, so this was like their last chance to "resolve" the hanging Benjen plot. So they wrote for Jon to stay behind as a way for him to see Benjen. Though I mean they could've easily just had them find Benjen while on the hunt for a wight and still had him die while buying Jon enough time to get back on Drogon or whatever.

Pretty much. Benjen literally can't go south of the Wall, so they threw him 45 seconds to go out in a (literal) blaze of glory, making good on his promise to Bran last season that he'd keep fighting until he couldn't.

He saved Bran. He saved Jon. He did plenty. And now his watch is ended.
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That whole storyline just feels like a D&D campaign to me. Been getting those vibes since that scene with Gendry and the two guards. Now you have the idiot players going off-rails on a ridiculous plan, causing a TPK, and the DM having to bail them out. Except he's mad about it so he comes up with a way to make their lives miserable in the future when they have to have the final boss fight.

I couldn't hate it if I tried.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Benjen literally can't go south of the Wall

Can't he, because the captured wight did and it was so perfunctory they didn't even show it
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

That whole storyline just feels like a D&D campaign to me. Been getting those vibes since that scene with Gendry and the two guards. Now you have the idiot players going off-rails on a ridiculous plan, causing a TPK, and the DM having to bail them out. Except he's mad about it so he comes up with a way to make their lives miserable in the future when they have to have the final boss fight.

I couldn't hate it if I tried.

...I can't argue with this.

God dammit I want to, but I can't.
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Jeff Zero posted...

mnkboy907 posted...

I feel like this may have been the last time anyone goes beyond the Wall, so this was like their last chance to "resolve" the hanging Benjen plot. So they wrote for Jon to stay behind as a way for him to see Benjen. Though I mean they could've easily just had them find Benjen while on the hunt for a wight and still had him die while buying Jon enough time to get back on Drogon or whatever.

Pretty much. Benjen literally can't go south of the Wall

Just like the White Walkers and Wights but guess who's coming south of the wall next season?

Seriously, the logical fallacies people use to defend poor writing is ridiculous.
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D&D defending themselves: You want a good show but you need the bad writing

OliviaTremor posted...

Just like the White Walkers and Wights but guess who's coming south of the wall next season?

Seriously, the logical fallacies people use to defend poor writing is ridiculous.

i'm all for ripping the writing currently

but using future events (that have yet to happen) to claim that past events are failures is just plain wrong

it's a pretty common theory that the wall goes down, in fact, which would make no inconsistency wrt white walkers
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SeabassDebeste posted...

OliviaTremor posted...

Just like the White Walkers and Wights but guess who's coming south of the wall next season?

Seriously, the logical fallacies people use to defend poor writing is ridiculous.

i'm all for ripping the writing currently

but using future events (that have yet to happen) to claim that past events are failures is just plain wrong

it's a pretty common theory that the wall goes down, in fact, which would make no inconsistency wrt white walkers

Which is why I was picking apart Jeff's argument that they needed the Benjen scene. I was saying the walkers are gonna make it south of the wall so Benjen could too. You missed my critique. Also, you and others have been using rampant speculation not supported by the show to justify the writing since this episode aired. Everyone does.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

My Immortal posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

it's been inconsistent. S1's wights *pretended* to be dead until they were at castle black, at which point they reanimated and tried to assassinate the old bear. that's extremely high-level stuff - maybe the less decayed ones are more intelligent?

(edit) i'm purely speculating idly. i know that D&D almost certainly do not have consistent answers for us, either.

This is the second time you (or someone else) has said that.

I don't think anyone was pretending to be dead in S1. They were dead and didn't reanimate until they got to Castle Black.

I always just assumed it was a timing thing. Like it takes a while for a corpse to animate unless a White Walker does it directly.

This is accurate, Benjen explained as much back in S6 when he met up with Bran and Meera. He says a White Walker stabbed him in the gut with a sword of ice and left him to die, but the Children of the Forest found him and stopped the magic that would have made him a wight from taking hold by shoving a piece of dragonglass in his chest.

The S1 wights were other rangers from the party that Benjen led beyond the wall, so presumably they met the same fate as Benjen but for whatever reason the Children didn't save them, perhaps because they had already died (though why they didn't burn the corpses is questionable). When the Night's Watch found them and brought them back they hadn't turned yet.
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Do we even know if it's going to be a fire or a ice dragon?
I mean I guess we do since leaks exist and it might or might not appear in the last episode
But let's assume for a minute it doesn't and we don't know the answer

Hmm

How does it even work, the lance pierced his "fire tank"
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i haven't really tried to justify the writing beyond the wall, just the sansa/arya stuff! the show has been taking writing shortcuts but i've basically shut down my critical mind because show's been doing its best to deliver fist-pumping moments. basically justifying the means (bad writing) with the ends (dragons versus zombies! tormund and the hound bromancing!). it's a very different way of enjoying the show versus S1-S4 (or even episodes like 7x04), but i've decided the issues are too gaping to single out at this point!
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Also sorry to everyone in getting frustrated with. Just real disappointed in the episode and I was highly enjoying this season.
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Nanis23 posted...

Do we even know if it's going to be a fire or a ice dragon?
I mean I guess we do since leaks exist and it might or might not appear in the last episode
But let's assume for a minute it doesn't and we don't know the answer

Hmm

How does it even work, the lance pierced his "fire tank"

If it doesn't have ice breath I'm going to be pissed.

If it had fire breath it'd probably nuke itself the first time it tried to use it so yeah I'm assuming ice
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My impression was that when people die north of the Wall, they become wights when night falls. Burning dead bodies works because you have time to burn them before they reanimate.
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That makes as much sense as anything, also fits with them burning Thoros in this ep. I mean I guess you could say he was killed by the bear but it wasn't clear if that was the conclusive cause of death or if he also just froze or what.
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MrGreenonion posted...

If it had fire breath it'd probably nuke itself the first time it tried to use it so yeah I'm assuming ice

Oh yeah there is also the matter of wights being burned easily and weak to fire
But then the question comes of what exactly makes wights wights and what makes them "White Walkers"
Like, we know that Craster babies turned into "White Walkers" and people that just die..and then the Night King raise his arms..they are turned into wights

So is the dragon a "Wight" or a "White Walker (err, Flier)"?
It's important to know if it resist fire or not >_>
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Mac Arrowny posted...

My impression was that when people die north of the Wall, they become wights when night falls. Burning dead bodies works because you have time to burn them before they reanimate.

Jon did tell Stannis to "burn the dead before nightfall," so yeah
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I think the worst part of the episode is when Sansa tells LF that she hasn't heard from Jon in weeks.

Like... Bro, you if you can't spare the half day teleport to show your face in Winterfell and explain your suicide mission, how did you not at least send a raven from any of the places you were at to explain your suicide mission?
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FFDragon posted...

if you can't spare the half day teleport to show your face in Winterfell

... nice
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(and don't say EW didn't have ravens since it hadn't been manned in forever -- they sent one to Dragonstone)
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i believe ravens are homing. it's possible that the raven from EW was brought from dragonstone and only delivered to dragonstone.

... however, tormund was dispatched from winterfell to man EW, so it makes zero sense that they would not have winterfell ravens there.
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Sansa is just not important enough

Or Littlefinger burned all the letters, who knows
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My guess is that Littlefinger is intercepting the ravens. I hope.
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so i haven't watched the series in like 3 seasons and forgot most of what i watch but i checked out this episode

what's so special about the ww's weapons that it fucked up that dragon like it was nothing
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OlDirtyNumbers posted...

so i haven't watched the series in like 3 seasons and forgot most of what i watch but i checked out this episode

what's so special about the ww's weapons that it fucked up that dragon like it was nothing

Magic
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Speaking of Sansa and Littlefinger, was anyone else hoping Sansa was gonna find his face in Arya's Bag O' Tricks? Like it was Arya in the scene where they talked about Brienne and she was tricking Sansa into sending her away? I don't know why, I guess so she could safely threaten Sansa because I guess Arya is a villain now? Or she's the good guy and Sansa's the villain? I really don't get what the Winterfell plot is supposed to be.
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MrGreenonion posted...

Speaking of Sansa and Littlefinger, was anyone else hoping Sansa was gonna find his face in Arya's Bag O' Tricks? Like it was Arya in the scene where they talked about Brienne and she was tricking Sansa into sending her away? I don't know why, I guess so she could safely threaten Sansa because I guess Arya is a villain now? Or she's the good guy and Sansa's the villain? I really don't get what the Winterfell plot is supposed to be.

That would mean Littlefinger is dead
And having Littlefinger dying offscreen would be super lame
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If you think there needs to be a hero and a villain in a scene between two characters this late into the show you haven't been paying attention.
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arya is batshit though and pretty bad overall
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