Current Events > why do conservatives have such a defeatist attitude when it comes to shootings?

(+) Yeah! (+)

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

its even weirder bc they get so riled up and militant about so many other issues which don't have effective solutions

"we gotta build a wall to keep illegal immigrants out!" (proven to not work and be a giant waste of money)

"we gotta ban muslims in order to stop terrorism!" (unconstitutional, can't discriminate based on religion)

so are we just gonna treat mass shootings like natural disasters now? is that how bad things have gotten in our country?
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I think they like mass shootings. Justifies their cowboy fantasies. "If I was there I woulda stopped em!!"
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Lightning bolts shot out of the blue sky and killed those people.
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mario2000 posted...

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

its even weirder bc they get so riled up and militant about so many other issues which don't have effective solutions

Actually, they do have a solution to it: More guns. The problem is that Democrats are dead-opposed to that solution. While I'm not sure how well it would work, I can't recall anybody ever even attempting a mass shooting at a gun show despite all the heavy artillery around the place.

Meanwhile, the Democrats' solutions, such as gun-free zones, have coincided with greater deaths in those areas. Ironically, back when schools had rifle clubs, you didn't have kids like Kip Kinkel or the "Trenchcoat Mafia" mowing down the student body.
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Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.
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Zeus posted...

mario2000 posted...

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

its even weirder bc they get so riled up and militant about so many other issues which don't have effective solutions

Actually, they do have a solution to it: More guns. The problem is that Democrats are dead-opposed to that solution. While I'm not sure how well it would work, I can't recall anybody ever even attempting a mass shooting at a gun show despite all the heavy artillery around the place.

Meanwhile, the Democrats' solutions, such as gun-free zones, have coincided with greater deaths in those areas. Ironically, back when schools had rifle clubs, you didn't have kids like Kip Kinkel or the "Trenchcoat Mafia" mowing down the student body.

Do you really thing the Vegas shooting would have been less of a disaster, if everyone had a gun?
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The Admiral posted...

Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.

and that folks is how you spin utter failure and inaction into a win
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the dude was up in a 32nd floor hotel room

how tf was anyone on the ground supposed to stop him if they had guns
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I don't think mass shootings are a result of relaxed gun laws/policies.

mario2000 posted...

the dude was up in a 32nd floor hotel room

how tf was anyone on the ground supposed to stop him if they had guns

the band had guns and one of the members realized how much guns suck

They don't have a defeatist attitude. They just don't want to make getting guns, ammunition, and other supplies more difficult for themselves and their voter base. They just use empty platitudes to keep not doing anything because they don't care.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Unfortunately the firearms the shooter had didn't suck enough.

However, a bullet from a handgun would have been impossible to hit someone 32 floors up. You can see 9mm bullets drop at around 30 yards or so.

that's not what i meant. he realized that he was absolutely helpless even though he was armed because in a situation like that, he could be misconstrued as the perpetrator and shot dead. he came to the realization that in a confusing panic like that, he'd probably have been more likely to get killed if he drew his gun at all

Asherlee10 posted...

I might have a bad opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm not understanding the Democrat point of view on this topic when there is a strong distrust of the current administration (Trump) and a distrust of authority in general, but they want to remove firearms from civilians and only let the authority (who they do not trust) have firearms.

But surely you believe there's a line between banning all firearms and legalized tweaks that make them fully automatic.
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the NRA is in the pocket of conservative politicians and they pass that mentality off to their constituents...Gun sales went up after this past weekend. I'm not going to say they ENJOY seeing it happen, but it unfortunately helps their bottom line...and republican politicians are paid to protect that by doing nothing...
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Asherlee10 posted...

gafemaqs posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I might have a bad opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm not understanding the Democrat point of view on this topic when there is a strong distrust of the current administration (Trump) and a distrust of authority in general, but they want to remove firearms from civilians and only let the authority (who they do not trust) have firearms.

But surely you believe there's a line between banning all firearms and legalized tweaks that make them fully automatic.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to what I was saying about those Democratic points of view that are pushing for full removal of firearms from civilians.

I'm saying you're speaking in broad terms. Which Democrats are advocating for total bans on all firearms across the board?

I don't know for sure, but I feel like maybe you're conflating the vehement calls for gun control of late (which exist because mass shootings keep happening, with total inaction from Congress) with some misconception that Democrats are going to "take the guns away". Maybe you're not, but that's how I'm reading it.
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Asherlee10 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.

I might have a bad opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm not understanding the Democrat point of view on this topic when there is a strong distrust of the current administration (Trump) and a distrust of authority in general, but they want to remove firearms from civilians and only let the authority (who they do not trust) have firearms.

I think we are past the point of small arms being able to overthrow tyranny. If the US government wants to take me out they will do a drone strike, not boots on the ground.

That being said, if it looked like the wind was blowing that guns would be banned I would go buy a bunch and hide them in my walls along with tons of ammo in vacuum sealed bags.
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Because we are not so selfish that we wait for these things to happen to give our politics a talking point. That's so childish. Grow up.
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It's not weird when you consider why they want these things.

They want to own guns, so they maintain that guns should not be banned in whatever way they can.

They want to keep illegal immigrants out, so they cling to whatever methods they can.
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KILBOTz posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.

I might have a bad opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm not understanding the Democrat point of view on this topic when there is a strong distrust of the current administration (Trump) and a distrust of authority in general, but they want to remove firearms from civilians and only let the authority (who they do not trust) have firearms.

I think we are past the point of small arms being able to overthrow tyranny. If the US government wants to take me out they will do a drone strike, not boots on the ground.

That being said, if it looked like the wind was blowing that guns would be banned I would go buy a bunch and hide them in my walls along with tons of ammo in vacuum sealed bags.

I agree that your guns wouldn't protect you individually, but they would protect the citizens of the country itself if the government became tyrannical. You can't drone strike 340 million citizens, and it would be impossible for the military to oppress people on a large scale if everyone was armed. Just look at the difficulty we have dealing with armed citizens in Afghanistan.
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I wonder where a lot of these illegal guns are coming from.

Its better than the democrats lets ban guns, we can go to the house of every American and take their guns from them!!
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Its better than the democrats lets ban guns, we can go to the house of every American and take their guns from them!!

What democratic politician said that? Who is saying anything like that?
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The Admiral posted...

Conservatives have faith that people can be civil .

lmfao

I needed that laugh. Stances on immigration disprove that altogether
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At this point there are really just 3 options:

A) Ban all guns in the U.S.

B) Keep the laws as they are, or maybe just restrict the private-sale.

C) Go all out like they did in that one city in like Kansas or Oklahoma, everyone gets a gun.

A and C are pretty much never going to happen for reasons. And as of now, the only real regulations I can understand would be making it harder to modify guns (which I'm sure the NRA would oppose) or crack down on private sales, and on that front I'm not even sure of the statistics on how much gun crime is linked.

I'm pretty liberal, but this is one issue where I lean a bit more conservative. There isn't a lot we can do, AFAIK there was nothing we could do to prevent this attack. There are too many guns out there on the black market to ban them (look at how that shit worked with drugs and alcohol), we already got background checks, and don't even start on the mental illness part because that's when you start to dehumanize people by throwing a blanket over them and label them dangerous.

All I can say about this is that I'm fucking sick of people using these tragedies to shit on political affiliations, or push agendas when the bodies are still warm. This goes for Dems and Republicans.
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hollow_shrine posted...

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Its better than the democrats lets ban guns, we can go to the house of every American and take their guns from them!!

What democratic politician said that? Who is saying anything like that?

They think gun control means ban guns for some reason. Its really odd.
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Clearly we need authorized RPG carry so that we can defend ourselves from 32nd floor shooters.
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GeneralZhao posted...

The Admiral posted...

Conservatives have faith that people can be civil .

lmfao

I needed that laugh. Stances on immigration disprove that altogether

How so? Illegals have already broken the law and are treated as such.
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Saying "we don't think more gun control laws are the solution" is not the same thing as "we might as well do nothing".

The Admiral posted...

Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.

Lol. So wrong.
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The Admiral posted...

GeneralZhao posted...

The Admiral posted...

Conservatives have faith that people can be civil .

lmfao

I needed that laugh. Stances on immigration disprove that altogether

How so? Illegals have already broken the law and are treated as such.

yes conservatives do indeed treat all illegal immigrants as if they're murderers and rapists
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hollow_shrine posted...

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Its better than the democrats lets ban guns, we can go to the house of every American and take their guns from them!!

What democratic politician said that? Who is saying anything like that?

Politician? I dont listen to those.

Im talking about here, and Facebook. Every time a shooting happens its always can we ban guns now. And I can only assume you all mean go up to every house and politely ask for the peoples guns. I dont know, you guys dont ever go into detail with stuff, its just ban this and ban that.

And didnt everyone on here say its okay to punch a nazi even if they didnt do anything, at all. That sounds like violence. Democrats are obsessed with violence. I mean hell, look at Chicago.
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Its better than the democrats lets ban guns, we can go to the house of every American and take their guns from them!!

What democratic politician said that? Who is saying anything like that?

Politician? I dont listen to those.

Im talking about here, and Facebook. Every time a shooting happens its always can we ban guns now. And I can only assume you all mean go up to every house and politely ask for the peoples guns. I dont know, you guys dont ever go into detail with stuff, its just ban this and ban that.

Well if we're submitting baseless anecdotal evidence, allow me to casually jam a wrench into this narrative.

Congratulations, you now know one liberal internet goon who doesn't want ban all guns, or go door to door collecting all firearms, but who still wants various forms of increased gun control, better tracking the movement of guns and ammo across the country, and more harshly penalizing people who buy and sell guns outside of that purview.
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dodgefan91 posted...

Saying "we don't think more gun control laws are the solution" is not the same thing as "we might as well do nothing".

So what are they doing? Theyre trying to shift the discussion to mental health (and that is part of it) but are doing nothing to help there either. Theyre even making it harder to get access to mental health care. Is their solution its a mental health issue but there is nothing we can do. Necessary evil. Too bad?
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Asherlee10 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Sounds like the opposite. Conservatives have faith that people can be civil and are not inherently prone to mass violence or likely to misuse firearms. Liberals are the ones who think people will always behave like animals and need mommy government to treat them like kids for the public good.

I might have a bad opinion here, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm not understanding the Democrat point of view on this topic when there is a strong distrust of the current administration (Trump) and a distrust of authority in general, but they want to remove firearms from civilians and only let the authority (who they do not trust) have firearms.

Eh, I've wondered this too TBH. Not a bad opinion.
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mario2000 posted...

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

> Implying gun control will prevent them
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Mal_Fet posted...

mario2000 posted...

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

> Implying gun control will prevent them

thx for reinforcing my point
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I'm generally conservative although while I am fine with people owning reasonable guns I can definitely see the point of banning more advanced weaponry or having tougher hoops to jump through to get stuff, etc.

But I think for me at least the problem with the democratic argument of either "Make guns illegal!" or even "Make them a lot harder to get/ban certain types!" is that... America is just SO saturated with guns already. You can make them harder to get, but someone determined to get them will find a place to get them. Too much is out there floating around unregistered already, people will always be able to get what they want eventually. So an outright ban or severe restrictions is going to mainly just take the weapons away from law abiding citizens OR take someone who would've been a law abiding citizen and make them a criminal for not complying.

I mean, not saying its the perfect solution, but if you had a "DESTROY ALL GUNS" button, we could discuss a gun ban. I just don't see how it would be very effective as is.
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imo the answer lies in tackling issues surrounding the guns themselves, but no one seems to want to budge on that shit either or has no answer for those too.
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mario2000 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

mario2000 posted...

"mass shootings will always happen so we might as well stop trying to prevent them"

> Implying gun control will prevent them

thx for reinforcing my point

That the gun control side is still unable to prove their propositions will work and how there's actually evidence against their claims? Like how crime dropped in CA significantly after the assault weapons ban ended
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The Top Crusader posted...

I'm generally conservative although while I am fine with people owning reasonable guns I can definitely see the point of banning more advanced weaponry or having tougher hoops to jump through to get stuff, etc.

But I think for me at least the problem with the democratic argument of either "Make guns illegal!" or even "Make them a lot harder to get/ban certain types!" is that... America is just SO saturated with guns already. You can make them harder to get, but someone determined to get them will find a place to get them. Too much is out there floating around unregistered already, people will always be able to get what they want eventually. So an outright ban or severe restrictions is going to mainly just take the weapons away from law abiding citizens OR take someone who would've been a law abiding citizen and make them a criminal for not complying.

I mean, not saying its the perfect solution, but if you had a "DESTROY ALL GUNS" button, we could discuss a gun ban. I just don't see how it would be very effective as is.

Not to mention how polymers are now advanced enough that anyone with one lower receiver, some molding, and legos can cast as many functional receivers as they want.
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