Board 8 > FBI planning to nab Weinstein before he can escape justice like Polanski

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kenri posted...

Vlado posted...

People must take care of themselves first and foremost. And countries take care of their own people first and foremost. No foreigner must ever take precedence over a native.

Countries aren't real things buddy there is literally no difference between a foreigner and a native.

Don't care about the usual back and forth in these topics, but that's some mighty disconnect from reality.
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yeah Kenri is just like that. there's really no reasoning with him on this subject. he for some reason thinks that because he believes countries should not exist that somehow means that they literally do not exist. even though:

NOUN

a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory

this definition is a thing that is agreed upon by everyone and describes something which does in fact exist in our world
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MariaTaylor posted...

and look it up yourself, it's not that hard. I'm not writing an academic paper here. if you don't care enough about the truth to do your own research then why should I care?

"citation needed" lmfao

okay professor

Anything I've looked at on the studies has ranged from it being where you estimated by anti-immigration studies and about neutral by pro-immigration studies so...
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if you can call anything which sets the estimate as high an "anti-immigration study" and discard it

you're basically saying you've devised a mental system by which you'll never accept any source as valid unless it agrees with what you already believe.

furthermore the cost of educating the children of illegal immigrants is alone from around 10-30 billion. you have allowed yourself to be duped if you think this could even be in the ballpark of "neutral"

HIGH ESTIMATES are around 130 billion total. I did not give a high estimate. I gave a pretty average one. even if my estimate was higher than what the reality is (it's a hard metric to measure) I can guarantee you it does not break even under any circumstances. once again if illegal immigration only brings in about 10 billion in taxes and the spending is from 10-30 billion just in education alone, how could it possibly break even? that's before you even start factoring in other things?
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MariaTaylor posted...

if you can call anything which sets the estimate as high an "anti-immigration study" and discard it

you're basically saying you've devised a mental system by which you'll never accept any source as valid unless it agrees with what you already believe.

I don't get how you say this.

Then follow up with this.

MariaTaylor posted...

I can guarantee you it does not break even under any circumstances.

So we can't disregard an anti-immigration study but we can a pro-immigration study that says it's much, much lower if any at all?

I'm not saying it's either, personally, but that there isn't really a consensus among the studies I've seen and most have political slants for or against it, and have attacked the methodology of the other.
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because I just logically explained to you how it cannot possibly break even
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NET GAIN - 10 BILLION

NET COST OF EDUCATION ALONE
LOW ESTIMATE 10 BILLION
HIGH ESTIMATE 30 BILLIOn

NET COST OF LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE: X

10 BILLION + X > 10 BILLION

not hard to understand
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Social Security tax is not the only economic benefit that immigrants provide
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MariaTaylor posted...

because I just logically explained to you how it cannot possibly break even

No you didn't. You didn't bring up any figure other than a general number of cost a few posts ago.

You're only now just giving estimates on cost of education.
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it's also important to contextualize what ChaosTonyV4 has posted. just posting a source does not make you smart. you have to actually be able to understand what you're looking at. this is something interesting that you might want to consider:

the number of illegal immigrants mentioned in the report is 12.6 million
the amount they contributed in taxes was estimated at 13 billion
(13 is the actual estimate from his own source, I'll be generous and assume he DID actually read his own source and 10 billion was just a nice round number. I do the same myself)

this means the average illegal immigrant was contributing around 1,031 dollars in the year 2010

this number is actually very significant

specifically because it is LOWER THAN ANY AMOUNT PAID by legal american citizens in the same time frame. going by the IRS statistics from 2011, even the lowest income bracket of 25-30k provided on average 1,334 per household.

so yeah it might feel nice and virtuous to make a sick "citation needed" burn and talk about how illegal immigrants pay 13 billion in taxes. then you realize the cost of support illegal immigrants offsets this income. then you realize that the amount they pay, per immigrant, is lower than even the lowest legal american income bracket.
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TheRock1525 posted...

No you didn't.

TheRock1525 posted...

You're only now just giving estimates on cost of education.

so if the cost of education alone is enough to make the numbers even

and you start adding things other than education

then yes... I did just logically prove that the net costs cannot be equal

this might surprise you but this is how addition works
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Where did you get the figure for education?
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nah, that's not how this works.

first admit that I did prove it, then ask for a source. you don't get to make a smarmy remark that I didn't prove it, and then after I explain it for the third time ask for a source because you realize I'm right and are looking for any possible out.
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And keep in mind this is specifically just about government funds, right? Because other studies have talked about first generation illegal immigrants being net drains followed by their offspring and third generations being net gains to state and local budgets. One I'm seeing is $57 million deficits followed by $30 billion and $200+ billion surpluses for future generations.

Which is probably more accurate to the way things develop with illegal immigrants since they're generally poor, uneducated people not unlike legal poor US citizens.
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MariaTaylor posted...

nah, that's not how this works.

first admit that I did prove it, then ask for a source. you don't get to make a smarmy remark that I didn't prove it, and then after I explain it for the third time ask for a source because you realize I'm right and are looking for any possible out.

I didn't make any smarmy remark. I'm not looking for any out, I'm curious where your numbers are coming from and if they're similar to the studies I'm looking at right now.
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MariaTaylor posted...

first admit that I did prove it, then ask for a source.

Pffffffffffffft
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trdl23 posted...

Pffffffffffffft

what's so funny? I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. my assertion is that I logically proved that the net cost of illegal immigration cannot possibly be 0 based on the following parameters:

1. the net income given was 10
2. the cost of one aspect of harboring illegal immigrants was estimated between 10-30
3. there are additional other costs

therefore in the best case scenario, 10 + x > 10

rock says that I did not logically prove it. if he thinks my logic is incorrect then what does it matter what my source is? he's hedging his bets but I'm far too familiar with the low cunning of board 8 to be content letting him have his way.

if he cannot even agree and admit that 10 + x > 10, then there's absolutely no reason I should waste my time proving to him that my 10 + x estimate is valid
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Because it's not logically proven if's based on flawed assumptions.

Without knowing that the three statements are true, the arguement can't be logically sound.

1) 1+3=5
2) A+B=C = C-A=B
3) Therefore 5-1=3

Logically proven, just as much as whatever you said, that I didn't even bother to read.
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MariaTaylor posted...

this means the average illegal immigrant was contributing around 1,031 dollars in the year 2010

MariaTaylor posted...

going by the IRS statistics from 2011, even the lowest income bracket of 25-30k provided on average 1,334 per household.

You realize that a household does not necessarily equal one taxpayer, right?
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*skims the discussion*
Wow, it truly is a lost cause to try to convince globalism fanboys of even the most easily verifiable facts.

Meanwhile, more abuse revelations:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4983662/Former-Pussycat-Doll-says-band-prostitution-ring.html
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MariaTaylor posted...

rock says that I did not logically prove it.

Literally never said that.
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Vlado posted...

The point is that it would allow the immigrants to have a better life. That's more important than preserving any "culture"

1. That's a lie.
2. No, it's not more important. Nobody is entitled to anything in this world, much less "better life." We will not burn millenia of history and culture for the sake of misguided, utopian, impossible idealism.
3. You're dodging my question.
Vlado posted...
More importantly, why are you so fixated on immigration? What good would immigration bring to the average US citizen? Please name concrete things.

The same good any random human living in the country does, i.e. a wide range of value from very negative to very positive depending on the person. No one is advocating letting dangerous people immigrate. We do our best to vet immigrants who will at the very least have a neutral effect on the country, hopefully more than that.

You dodged MY question about where should Native Americans go to preserve their culture?
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Vlado posted...

What good would immigration bring to the average US citizen?

What a great example of how truly out of touch Vlado is with western society and the US in particular

Our country would be NOTHING without immigration (yes, including illegals)
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Jakyl25 posted...

The same good any random human living in the country does, i.e. a wide range of value from very negative to very positive depending on the person. No one is advocating letting dangerous people immigrate. We do our best to vet immigrants who will at the very least have a neutral effect on the country, hopefully more than that.

So the best an advocate of immigration can give me is that it would bring some good and some bad. Figured out why non-indoctrinated people don't support it yet?

Jakyl25 posted...

You dodged MY question about where should Native Americans go to preserve their culture?

Acquire enough power to be capable of preserving it.

foolm0r0n posted...

What a great example of how truly out of touch Vlado is with western society and the US in particular

Our country would be NOTHING without immigration (yes, including illegals)

lmao
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BTW, excellent news from Austria!

https://www.rt.com/news/406796-austria-vote-results-europe/
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Vlado, just so I know you aren't trolling, how long have you lived in the US? Also, how well did you do in your US history classes in middle school/high school?
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MariaTaylor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

No you didn't.

TheRock1525 posted...

You're only now just giving estimates on cost of education.

so if the cost of education alone is enough to make the numbers even

and you start adding things other than education

then yes... I did just logically prove that the net costs cannot be equal

this might surprise you but this is how addition works

Social security isnt the only tax, but ok.
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I do love the hypocrisy of Vlado, a Bulgarian with no actual ties to the U.S., lecturing us on the dangers of globalism, while simultaneously deriding the efforts of our country to ferret out foreign influence on our culture from Eastern Europe. "Oh that's just a deep state conspiracy to further globalism!" Well that "conspiracy" holds a lot more weight given the growing mountain of evidence, than your "Islam is trying to take over the world" panic.

For fuck's sake, you are literally a foreigner trying to push an agenda to change U.S. culture to match YOUR ideals. How is that ANY different than the threat you claim exists from "Islam"?
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Vlado posted...

So the best an advocate of immigration can give me is that it would bring some good and some bad. Figured out why non-indoctrinated people don't support it yet?

Uh no?

Almost everything comes with some good and some bad. You're the one saying how we shouldn't strive for utopia
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Espeon posted...

I do love the hypocrisy of Vlado, a Bulgarian with no actual ties to the U.S., lecturing us on the dangers of globalism, while simultaneously deriding the efforts of our country to ferret out foreign influence on our culture from Eastern Europe. "Oh that's just a deep state conspiracy to further globalism!" Well that "conspiracy" holds a lot more weight given the growing mountain of evidence, than your "Islam is trying to take over the world" panic.

For fuck's sake, you are literally a foreigner trying to push an agenda to change U.S. culture to match YOUR ideals. How is that ANY different than the threat you claim exists from "Islam"?

Because he thinks that all Americans who are not "globalist puppets" already share his ideals because literally everything he has ever "learned" about America has been from infowars.
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Vlado posted...

Acquire enough power to be capable of preserving it.

So you're saying that if we globalists can wipe out "western civilization" then that's just too bad so sad for you? Cool
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Vlado posted...

lmao

see
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Vlado posted...

Acquire enough power to be capable of preserving it.

You are taking a really wrong angle on this.

You should be arguing that Native Americans are exactly an example of how immigration can obliterate and erase huge, ancient cultures from history. You might have a very strong and diverse culture, but if you are too compassionate to the immigrants and give them too much space, they will massacre you and take all your land for themselves, leaving you some token reservation land at best.

That would actually be a relatively strong argument from the nationalist and white supremacist side. That muslims and africans are going to "trail of tears" white people.
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Appropriately enough also to Oklahoma
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TheRock1525 posted...

Literally never said that.

TheRock1525 posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

because I just logically explained to you how it cannot possibly break even

No you didn't.

is this really the level we've fallen to

outright denying easily verifiable information that can be obtained by scrolling your mouse up like 10 posts
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MariaTaylor posted...

yeah Kenri is just like that. there's really no reasoning with him on this subject. he for some reason thinks that because he believes countries should not exist that somehow means that they literally do not exist. even though:

NOUN

a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory

this definition is a thing that is agreed upon by everyone and describes something which does in fact exist in our world

I didn't say they don't exist, I said they're not real things. And your definition supports me tbh.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Social security isnt the only tax, but ok.

okay so you actually didn't read your own source that you posted. well, that's good to know at least.

god damn some people will try really hard to look smart when they are the furthest thing from it.

kevwaffles posted...

You realize that a household does not necessarily equal one taxpayer, right?

this is true, yeah. that actually slipped my mind since I was just skimming through data and crunching numbers quickly this morning. not sure how this changes the comparison exactly. while it's true the illegal immigrants are probably filing by household as well, I based their contribution per person based on their total numbers while the legal citizens I based it on the listed average taxes for their bracket.

not sure how to make a better qualitative comparison, though. I'd have to think about it for a bit.
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Sooo... This boils down to

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us.gif

vs

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/bg.gif
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not at all, no. it's law abiding legal immigrants vs law breaking illegal immigrants. whether they come from mexico, canada, or atlantis.
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Meh, I'm at a loose end these days (no save mys or rankings to keep my interest) but a lot these seem to be "U.S. V Vlado" episodes.
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oh yeah I don't pay attention to people arguing with Vlado anymore.

good call.
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MariaTaylor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Literally never said that.

TheRock1525 posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

because I just logically explained to you how it cannot possibly break even

No you didn't.

is this really the level we've fallen to

outright denying easily verifiable information that can be obtained by scrolling your mouse up like 10 posts

My mistake. I was only thinking I literally didn't say it as opposed to indirectly saying it by disagreeing with your assertion.
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MariaTaylor posted...

oh yeah I don't pay attention to people arguing with Vlado anymore.

good call.

Because you agree with vlado or some other reason?

(vlado auto corrected to "black" for some reason there)
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Because you agree with vlado or some other reason?

I think for anyone to continue to argue with vlado after this long is a sign of a serious lack of intelligence and critical thinking ability. especially the people who neurotically claim that there is no value in talking to him but then continue to do so. the best way to explain it, which I have before is like this;

you have a guy who you perceive as the dumbest human being on the planet and yet you spend day after day punching down on him to make yourself feel smart. what does that actually say about your own level of intelligence?
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You don't argue with vlado, you argue around him
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MariaTaylor posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Because you agree with vlado or some other reason?

I think for anyone to continue to argue with vlado after this long is a sign of a serious lack of intelligence and critical thinking ability. especially the people who neurotically claim that there is no value in talking to him but then continue to do so. the best way to explain it, which I have before is like this;

you have a guy who you perceive as the dumbest human being on the planet and yet you spend day after day punching down on him to make yourself feel smart. what does that actually say about your own level of intelligence?

Okay just checkibg
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MariaTaylor posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Social security isnt the only tax, but ok.

okay so you actually didn't read your own source that you posted. well, that's good to know at least.

god damn some people will try really hard to look smart when they are the furthest thing from it.

lmao classic maria
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Jakyl25 posted...

Uh no?

Almost everything comes with some good and some bad. You're the one saying how we shouldn't strive for utopia

Uh yes? You've failed to make a compelling argument in favour of immigration. You've failed to state, with concrete examples, how it would be good for the average US citizen. Therefore, there is no reason for a non-indoctrinated person to support it. You only support it because of your religi... I mean ideology.

Jakyl25 posted...

So you're saying that if we globalists can wipe out "western civilization" then that's just too bad so sad for you? Cool

"Might is right" has always been the only law that has been truly valid in the world. There is no escaping from that fact, whether I like it or not.

And that is why resistance, and powerful resistance, is necessary before it's too late. Fortunately, as Austria also has just shown, resistance is there, and globalism's path towards quietly subverting the world, which had been working quite well until a few years ago, is gone completely.

The only way globalism has now is through sheer force. And any such victory is but a temporary one.

I'm not saying we've already won, but, on a timeline of 100+ years, there is no way for us to lose unless humans literally become cattle in a matrix-like dystopian future. But for the globalists, that would be like a single player putting the game on 2-player mode and beating up the opponent who isn't even moving. What would be left of the world in such a case would not be worth winning.

So yes. As long as free thinking exists, globalism is destined to lose. Just like communism before it. Because the two are essentially the same inside, just the package is different.

MariaTaylor posted...

you have a guy who you perceive as the dumbest human being on the planet and yet you spend day after day punching down on him to make yourself feel smart. what does that actually say about your own level of intelligence?

They don't even think that, regardless of what they're trying to portray in their posts. It's quite obvious that I am very intelligent given even just simply the structure and compositions of my thoughts that I share in my posts here. They are just so baffled that somebody intelligent can also be so mercilessly anti-liberal because they don't know better. That's literally all that they have been taught in the indoctrination environment they've sadly had to live in - that liberals are "right" and "smart" and conservatives are "wrong" and "stupid."

That's why, to them, to be conservative is to be "wrong" and "stupid." Despite the obvious contradition they see before their eyes, i.e. my intelligently laid out thoughts, they can't say anything different. Whereas I have no problem perceiving and admitting their varying intelligence, despite it being applied in the wrong direction. I take no offence. They simply do not know better.
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Vlado posted...

It's quite obvious that I am very intelligent given even just simply the structure and compositions of my thoughts that I share in my posts here.

Tempting sig
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MariaTaylor posted...

what does that actually say about your own level of intelligence?

It's not necessarily intelligence, it's more likely to display a crippling amount of self doubt and insecurity that can be massaged by -in their minds- winning an online argument to reinforce their own strength.
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