Board 8 > [VGMC] Video Games Music Contest 12 - Bracket and Discussion, round 3 and beyond

(+) Yeah! (+)

seething trumpet hate
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I like how the worst P5 song in the contest retired and the best song was the first one eliminated

Overall good group of retirees, no outright bad songs and only one I find kinda boring
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Janus5k posted...

seething trumpet hate

trumpet is pretty bad but there are a few cases where it works (jazz)
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HBJDubs posted...

I like how the worst P5 song in the contest retired and the best song was the first one eliminated

Overall good group of retirees, no outright bad songs and only one I find kinda boring

Behind the Mask is the best song? Um, no.

.
Results, day 65:
Amusement Park > Dr. Fetus' Castle, 28-16
In This Cage < Terrible Monster Attacking Crew!, 18-22

Normally 16 is a respectable total for a losing song. In this case, it was a beatdown, nearly a doubling. On one hand, the song I didn't want to see won advanced handily, but on the other, we had 44 people voting in the match, so the masses truly have spoken here. (And only one was a new voter. Everyone else is just coming out of the woodwork for the final matches, it seems.)
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FL81 posted...

trumpet is pretty bad

says the man with a Touhou song winning bracket B
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true ideal retirees:
Ground Theme
Riot at the Bat Rack
Your Reality
Devil Went Down To Georgia
SEXY FAIRIES
Transformer Robot Sing Wheels on the Bus
[insert touhou fangame song here]
that Dikembe Mutombo song I guess (honestly I'm just glad it wasn't Dr Fetus' Castle or Blue Radiance)

my rankings of the retirees

Fire Emblem Fates - End of All (Land)
Persona 5 - Rivers in the Desert
Ginga Force - Zenith
Granado Espada - Laguerra del Mundo
Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana - Sunshine Coastline
Ar Nosurge - Hidra Heteromycin
Persona 5 - Last Surprise
Nier Automata - Amusement Park

some are pretty close though so my votes may not reflect these rankings

rivers > sunshine > surprise > amusement > hidra > laguerra > end of all > zenith

/effort
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Since we have retirees, we now also have Ultimate Losers for each division:

A1: LdM > True Hero > Pendulum > Spiral > Second Dark Matter Battle
A2: Rivers > Cosmic Hero > Undertale > Kaze > Floral Fury
A3: Sunshine > Frost > Sky > LastPandemic > Divinity: OS 2 Theme
A4: Surprise > Phantom R > Ignition > Into the Light > The Devil Went Down to Georgia
B1: Hidra > Hopes > AA > Light of Nibel > ENDYMION
B2: Zenith > Glass > what > seriously how > STULTI
B3: End of All > Octopunch > Fallen Angel > Foundation > Your Contract Has Expired
B4: Amusement Park > Fetus > OVERDOSE > Heavenly Flight > The Last Game We Ever Play

I nominated or supported half of those :(
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Stulti losing so bad is sad since I like it way more than any of those others.
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I surprisingly nominated or supported none of them. Then again, I assume that less than 10 of my noms/supports made it into the contest.
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even more incentive to want Last Surprise and Zenith to lose now.
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It may be an ultimate loser but STULTI still didn't lose as bad to Id ~ Purpose as I thought it would

To put it in perspective, I'm gonna replace '>'s with 'v's.

Granado Espada - Laguerra del Mundo
v
v
v
v
Ar Nosurge - Hidra Heteromycin
v
Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana - Sunshine Coastline
v
v
Ginga Force - Zenith
v
v
Persona 5 - Rivers in the Desert
v
v
Fire Emblem Fates - End of All (Land)
v
Persona 5 - Last Surprise >= Nier Automata - Amusement Park

The first one is my worthy winner; the next 3 are good, yet a little underwhelming; the last 4 would be not-so-good winners imo.
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Results, day 66:
Laguerra del Mundo > Rivers in the Desert, 24-19
Preserved Valkyria > The Queen of Soldier, 28-11

Huh. I honestly did not expect that. Well, I mean, I expected Preserved Valkyria to win, but not the other part. I think I'm happy. I mean, LDM was my find. I had pretty much assumed Rivers was going to go the distance, though, and made peace with that. Now I feel like you guys are just setting me up for the most soul-crushing finals possible.
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persona failed but falcom and gust will save us still
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Janus5k posted...

FL81 posted...

trumpet is pretty bad

says the man with a Touhou song winning bracket B

no one's perfect
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Laguerra del Mundo won...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs" data-time="
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End of All vs. Amusement Park is the true final match. The matches after that will just be formalities.
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OrangeCrush980 posted...

End of All vs. Amusement Park is the true final match. The matches after that will just be formalities.

Best final here
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barreldragon88 posted...

OrangeCrush980 posted...

End of All vs. Amusement Park is the true final match. The matches after that will just be formalities.

Best final here

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I'm always amazed at this point of the contest how polarized and contradictory the posts become, with people alternating between saying a song is the best possible winner and the worst, and having these comments somehow spanning every remaining song and usually every potential combination of songs. One would think that as we get toward the end, we'd gradually arrive at some kind of consensus over what constitutes the best songs in the contest. Instead, we seem to become increasingly contentious. Some of this is because people have a greater impulse to say "my favorite is great and that one song isn't" at this stage when it seems increasingly likely those are the options you have left, but still...what is it about music that sparks such widely differing opinions?
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VGM is particular is really split for a few reasons I think. The first is obviously game bias. While we'd all like to say we aren't picking based on game, there is that little bit of influence there that wants the better game to win. Somewhat tying into that, is that most VGM needs context. A lot of VGM doesn't stand on its own outside of the game. So while we may really like and think a song is good, part of that may be because of the context from the game. For example, I love Amusement Park. I REALLY love Amusement Park. I think it's a fantastic track, and my favorite from Automata. But, a part of that might be because of the moment I got to the amusement park in game. It was strange, it was odd, it was a little creepy, I was confused, I didn't know what to think. Then this track starts playing, and it just perfectly fit all those thoughts I had. I loved the track, I loved everything that was going on, I loved everything. So, tracks where we have that context in head, we associate the track to, making it better. When we don't, we just hear a song. A song that likely doesn't stand as well on it's own. I don't think a lot of these final songs are that great. I think most of the best songs got eliminated early in the contest, to which baffles me.

Then of course, there are, well, Strong Opinions. Liking what you like and screw everything else. I've seen a lot of that in a "Save That" I'm running.

My hypothesis for a while on that subject has been that by this point most people's favorites are out and that most of the songs that can make it this far are ones that land in the "good but not great" category for many people.
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azuarc posted...

I'm always amazed at this point of the contest how polarized and contradictory the posts become, with people alternating between saying a song is the best possible winner and the worst, and having these comments somehow spanning every remaining song and usually every potential combination of songs. One would think that as we get toward the end, we'd gradually arrive at some kind of consensus over what constitutes the best songs in the contest. Instead, we seem to become increasingly contentious. Some of this is because people have a greater impulse to say "my favorite is great and that one song isn't" at this stage when it seems increasingly likely those are the options you have left, but still...what is it about music that sparks such widely differing opinions?

We're a bunch of bitter people
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There's definitely a bit too much hate from people I feel like...
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Popcorn_Fairy posted...

VGM is particular is really split for a few reasons I think. The first is obviously game bias. While we'd all like to say we aren't picking based on game, there is that little bit of influence there that wants the better game to win.

That may be true, occasionally, but not very often for me any more. Truthfully, I can count the number of games I've played that have come out in the last five years on my hands. If I appreciate a newer game's soundtrack, it's purely because I appreciate that game's soundtrack. This goes for almost anything that's less than twenty years old. And when a game I've played does come up, I'm mostly able to separate the context, with a few specific exceptions where the moment is particularly dramatic. (Say, Suicide Mission, for instance.)

No, I don't want the better game to win. I want the better song to win.

pyresword posted...

My hypothesis for a while on that subject has been that by this point most people's favorites are out and that most of the songs that can make it this far are ones that land in the "good but not great" category for many people.

If songs are good but not great, then why is there so much animosity, and all these claims of worst contest winner or horrible champion or whatever?
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Well I was mainly coming from the angle of "their favorites are gone so they are just generally unhappy". So more like they're upset their song lost and are just projecting that onto whatever's left.

Also at least in my case--even though I don't have any particular problem with any song remaining, there's a couple I wouldn't be happy with as winners just because my response towards them is generally apathetic. Like my threshold for complaining about a song is much higher when just listening to the song than it is when that song is selected as this year's best VGM, especially when it's a case where I find difficulty seeing anything about the song for people to latch onto at all.
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pyresword posted...

especially when it's a case where I find difficulty seeing anything about the song for people to latch onto at all.

Why-what-ev-er-do-you-mean, py-re-sword? What-song-would-make-you-think-like-that?
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I'll give you a hint it's not Amusement Park.
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But like I said it's probably mostly just that I'm salty that there's not really any songs left I would say that I love.
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Re: Blue Reflection OST-- glad to hear some love for the soundtrack and what people enjoy from it. The trigger for my own listenthrough was actually Mac's post in the pre-nomination topic! Other than the tracks I nominated, I like hallucination and hope a lot (I probably prefer to OVERDOSE at this point); favourite boss theme as a whole is probably DNF FW15C right now. I like that even the tracks that might have been filler in another OST have some charm-- I'm partial to Triangle, Square, and Circle (Disc 1 track 22), for example. Listening to Qualia, it's pretty nice as well.

Re: polarized opinions-- this is how I see it:
-outsize statements draw outsize reactions-- when someone says a track is 'trash', or starts an arms race for number of inequality signs used in a post, there's going to be several people who genuinely like the track (it needed the explicit support of at least three individuals to make it into the contest!), and some of them will probably respond in kind;
-related to the above-- a lot of people take their taste personally so they'll feel at least a bit hurt if a track they like is put down harshly or repeatedly (making it seem like an insult to their taste), making a harsh response more likely;
-it's more about perceived disparity in track quality than absolute quality-- if a track is 'okay' by one person's standard, that person isn't going to make any statements about it winning a first-round match against mediocre competition, but if it beats a track they really like, you're more likely to hear a response like 'I really don't understand why people like this track'-- a sentiment that really starts to set in when that same track keeps moving on and even makes it to retirement. Take, as an easy example, Amusement Park-- from what I remember it wasn't a track you hated so much as found totally unremarkable, but when it's made it to retirement after taking out a track you nominated, you're a lot more likely to spit invective at it. For most people, I think, the retirement tracks consist of a couple they like and a bunch more that they're ambivalent on that beat competition they liked a lot more. There's definitely no real consensus on track quality, even in the finals

kaonashi1 posted...

Take, as an easy example, Amusement Park-- from what I remember it wasn't a track you hated so much as found totally unremarkable, but when it's made it to retirement after taking out a track you nominated, you're a lot more likely to spit invective at it.

I've been talking crap about it since round 1, though, and not because I love Blue Radiance.
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well there's always bad taste outliers jk
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Results, day 67?:
Sunshine Coastline > Last Surprise, 29-13
MAIN MEN < Deep Forest, 15-26

Well, thanks for joining us in the post-retirement rounds, Persona. Glad you could make it. I'm so sorry you had to go home early, but we'll save you a spot next year, don't worry. Because Life Will Change will retire next year, right?
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If you were to ask me which of my noms would have the highest placement in its bracket, I don't think I would have guessed Deep Forest.

It's going to die horribly to Preserved Valkyria, but still.
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Everything dies horribly to Preserved Valkyria. Even Xeus will die horribly to Preserved Valkyria. (Or TMWC.)
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Well, uh, consider that SC went 22-17 against LWC, and 29-13 against LS. It's pretty clear which song is actually stronger!! also clear that azuarc's seeding was bad <_<
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Petition to change "give us the damn bracket" to "give us the damn seeding."

Kappa
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trdl23 posted...

Kappa

PogChamp
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Results, day something:
Hidra Heteromycin > Zenith, 20-18
Xeus > Terrible Monster Attacking Crew!, 18-17

So close...
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damn if I had remembered to vote
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hail
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disappointed that Zenith lost, but fully expected

Gallant Gunshot had better go the distance
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nice, guaranteed good winner for side bracket, and a good chance the main contest will have a decent winner, too. guaranteed not awful now at least.
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Results, day T-3:
End of All (Land) > Amusement Park, 23-22
Preserved Valkyria > Deep Forest, 23-16

This roller coaster has run out of track. (Heh, heh, get it? Get it?)

Lots of main match-only voters.
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host bias finally claims its victim
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Contest host saved.

Kind of a shame though, I didn't vote for it often but AP's run was pretty cute
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Hey, I didn't DQ the Amusement Park vote that was iffy. I totally could've. And since it didn't matter, I wouldn't have even felt bad about it.
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Welp. Amusement Park was my last guy. And with the Persona tracks out too, I'm out of guys I'd like to see win. Time to work on a list of noms for next year. Been fun.