Board 8 > Survivor: Ghost Island Topic 3 - This Cursed Season Has Matured Into A REAL Idol

(+) Yeah! (+)

pls no
---

I mean she's probably one of the most likely returnees from this season, along with Chris and Domenick.
---

I dont understand why Laurel never turns on the guys. I want to understand.
---

So since when was Angela status quo? I foresaw a scenario with Donathan jumping with her and Kellyn but I guess it wasn't meant to be
---

Laurel knows they both have idols so I would assume she is afraid of being collateral damage if they play that.

Which I guess doesnt work as an excuse tonight because she had immunity.
---

Peridiam posted...

I dont understand why Laurel never turns on the guys. I want to understand.

Well, you see, Wendell let her have immunity tonight, so it would have just been really mean to turn on him. I mean, he's been so nice so her and everything...
---

The Mana Sword posted...

Laurel knows they both have idols so I would assume she is afraid of being collateral damage if they play that.

Which I guess doesn?t work as an excuse tonight because she had immunity.

You know how Wendell said tonight that laurel plans to win by them splitting the votes between each other. You don't think she's saying that in honestly do you?
---

QJD1381 posted...

Peridiam posted...

I don?t understand why Laurel never turns on the guys. I want to understand.

Well, you see, Wendell let her have immunity tonight, so it would have just been really mean to turn on him. I mean, he's been so nice so her and everything...

Lol yeah cause things more cut throat have never happened in this game. Like a guy wasn't totally convinced to give someone else immunity, did so, and then was voted out. That has never happened.
---

I mean if thats laurels plan its terrible because it means she still needs to somehow get at least 4 votes at FTC when shes on track for 0.
---

Peridiam posted...

I dont understand why Laurel never turns on the guys. I want to understand.

The only reason I can see is that you're not you when you're hungry
---

This season is utter garbage, and Laurel is a major part of that.
---

It hasn't been that bad. But I like it less than HHH. I'll know for sure in a month when I rewatch.
---

For some reason I dont think its the blowback from two idols. The fact that weve had several tribals now with windows to take a shot and they dont play them and still nothing?
---

Even back on Malolo, Laurel just sides with people in power and doesn't make waves, even if it might be beneficial to behave otherwise.
---

Inviso posted...

This season is utter garbage, and Laurel is a major part of that.

Like, bottom 5 garbage?
---

Underleveled posted...

Inviso posted...

This season is utter garbage, and Laurel is a major part of that.

Like, bottom 5 garbage?

Honestly? Yes. This is One World levels of trash.
---

Underleveled posted...

Inviso posted...

This season is utter garbage, and Laurel is a major part of that.

Like, bottom 5 garbage?

I posted before that I so far had it in my bottom 5 replacing Guatemala. Hasn't given me a reason to put it any higher!
---

Yes but iirc Inviso has Guatemala pretty high.
---

The Mana Sword posted...

The season seems pretty easy to map out. Sebastian and Angela are the next two gone, order doesn't really matter.

RIP
---

How the hell is Guatemala bottom 5? I guess I can see someone not being entertained by it but no way is it actively offensive like at least 6 or 7 seasons are.
---

Oh it's better than one world but worse than HHH.

But after consultating my ranking that lets it only be between 27-31.
---

eaedwards6400 posted...

Oh it's better than one world but worse than HHH.

But after consultating my ranking that lets it only be between 27-31.

Oh, it's not better than OW. It's just on that level. OW, at least I'm impressed by Kim as a winner, and there wasn't as much unnecessary production interference.
---

If you think 6 or 7 seasons are actively offensive, then it's not a stretch to believe that personal opinion allows Guatemala to deviate 2-3 spots from consensus
---

Inviso posted...

Donathan is so fucking terrible.

I read this as a negative but after seeing your chart, this was more of a critique of his game ability?
---

To this season's credit if Dom or Wendell win they are both more entertaining than Kim but if Laurel pulled this out well then it very well may be as bad.
---

GTM posted...

Inviso posted...

Donathan is so fucking terrible.

I read this as a negative but after seeing your chart, this was more of a critique of his game ability?

It was more me hating, at the time, the fact that he was unnecessarily stirring shit up when it was the perfect time to be secretive and blindside
---

I think Dom is definitely more entertaining than Kim

but I have a hard-on for hating wendell right now

Also, HHH had a bad ending but I really liked the journey, all-in-all I thought it was a good season
---

Season Ranking Since Cambodia Ruined The Franchise:

Kaoh Rong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH > Game Changers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MvGX > Cambodia > Ghost Island
---

Inviso posted...

Season Ranking Since Cambodia Ruined The Franchise:

Kaoh Rong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH > Game Changers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MvGX > Cambodia > Ghost Island

I mostly agree with this except that I was pretty okay with MvGX. HHH was also a solid mid-tier season until the last two episodes.
---

Underleveled posted...

Inviso posted...

Season Ranking Since Cambodia Ruined The Franchise:

Kaoh Rong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH > Game Changers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MvGX > Cambodia > Ghost Island

I mostly agree with this except that I was pretty okay with MvGX. HHH was also a solid mid-tier season until the last two episodes.

HHH and GC are similar to me in that both were actually pretty solid seasons right up until those last two episodes ruined everything.
---

"More entertaining than Kim" isn't a high mark. Everyone left is more entertaining than Kim, even Sea Bass and Angela.
---

You ranking of Cambodia continues to make me want to gag and continues to not be the norm. And I'm not doing this conversation again so I'll stop there lol.
---

Angela is for sure more entertaining than Kim. Sea Bass though... honestly probably not.

this season imo is the only bad one since... BvW (newbies vs returners is the absolute worst format). though i'm not exactly liking the trend since the two seasons before this.
---

All this talk does remind me. I think we might be due for a rank down of some kind this off-season... or did we do one last summer
---

I think last time we did it Cagayan was the most recent season.
---

Tier 1
KR

Tier 2
HHH

Tier 2B
Cambodia
MVGX

Tier 3
GC

Tier 15
GI
---

15?! Lol
---

eaedwards6400 posted...

You ranking of Cambodia continues to make me want to gag and continues to not be the norm. And I'm not doing this conversation again so I'll stop there lol.

My opinion on Cambodia not being the norm is exactly why Survivor has gone downhill. Cambodia is not a good season, but it ticked a lot of boxes for most fans, especially since a lot of people were extra-invested in the season after they personally got to pick the cast. But because Cambodia is so popular, I feel like the producers have taken a lot of the wrong lessons from it and applied them to new seasons. Hence why every season filmed since Cambodia has been less than stellar (in one way or another.)

20-person cast? MvGX/GC/GI
6-person finale? MvGX/GC/GI
Multiple swaps that make it difficult to truly understand in-game dynamics? GC/GI
Overabundance of idols and advantages? MvGX/GC/HHH/GI
Strategy taking precedence over character development (leading to horribly underedited characters)? MvGX/GC/GI

All the negatives introduced by Cambodia...continue to influence modern Survivor for the worse. Whether you like Cambodia or not, the season's popularity is why we continue to get mediocre season after mediocre season.
---

checking back in and i guess apparently Jacob ended up being the most entertaining part of the season?

I think it has more to do with production not making a difference between returning player and newbie seasons. Things we see in returning player seasons should not happen in newbie season because it scares the players into not doing anything. I think the reflection is better shown on GC on 35/36 than it is on Cambodia over the whole field.

Honestly, Cambodia probably had the perfect amount of idols and advantages.
---

Yeah hold on. Cambodia only had 4 idols, and 1 advantage. That's really not that much. Even for then.
---

Actually, the more I think about it. Your hypothesis only works for 20 person. 6 person finale (which comes with a 20 person season). Game changers shouldn't really count because of it being more complicated on purpose. It's called Game Changers for crying out loud.

The swaps and the overabundance probably comes more from Game Changers.
---

Man this season has been pretty bad, huh? I hope next season is more exciting, because yikes has Ghost Island been a snooze.
---

I'm not saying Cambodia is the first season to really push idols as the pinnacle of Survivor. There are a bunch of seasons with a bunch of idols in them. But it's more that Cambodia had that final six round where two idols get played and no votes are counted and Jeff got to pull out his John Madden board at the live reunion. Since Cambodia though, they just amp things up, because events like the Andrew blindside, or the Stephen blindside, are what the producers WANT, and only happened because of idols/advantages. So just throw more and more advantages into the game, creating a situation where the advantages become more important than the players.

Also, Cambodia had the 10/10-6/6/6-7/7 series of swaps, which again is set up in such a way where the swaps become more important than the characters. Cambodia/Game Changers/Ghost Island have followed a similar format, and all of them had similar outcomes. 10/10 to start, one tribe loses twice, then a swap before those original tribes even got a chance to really work things out, then another swap. And in all three seasons, we see ONE original tribe get utterly decimated: 6/7 pre-mergers in Cambodia were Ta Keo, 6/7 pre-mergers (and the merge boot) in Game Changers were Mana, and now 5/7 pre-mergers in Ghost Island were Malolo.
---

Inviso posted...

10/10 to start, one tribe loses twice, then a swap before those original tribes even got a chance to really work things out, then another swap. And in all three seasons, we see ONE original tribe get utterly decimated: 6/7 pre-mergers in Cambodia were Ta Keo, 6/7 pre-mergers (and the merge boot) in Game Changers were Mana, and now 5/7 pre-mergers in Ghost Island were Malolo.

From a game play perspective it makes sense to stick with your original tribe and then the swaps are intended to break up those giant alliances like with Laurel/Donathan this season. Frankly, it feels more coincidental than anything else that all three fell to the same fashion. The bonds on those first 6 days shouldn't be that strong.
---

you know what in cambodia needs to come back? Hidden Idols at challenges

also "Hidden" idols
---

I don't get what Angie and Seabass are doing. Kellyn has a weird edit for her to go out in this spot. Is this the most telegraphed final three ever?
---

eaedwards6400 posted...

Inviso posted...

10/10 to start, one tribe loses twice, then a swap before those original tribes even got a chance to really work things out, then another swap. And in all three seasons, we see ONE original tribe get utterly decimated: 6/7 pre-mergers in Cambodia were Ta Keo, 6/7 pre-mergers (and the merge boot) in Game Changers were Mana, and now 5/7 pre-mergers in Ghost Island were Malolo.

From a game play perspective it makes sense to stick with your original tribe and then the swaps are intended to break up those giant alliances like with Laurel/Donathan this season. Frankly, it feels more coincidental than anything else that all three fell to the same fashion. The bonds on those first 6 days shouldn't be that strong.

The problem is that the swaps are happening too soon. In all three cases, one tribe loses two immunity challenges and then they swap. Of course that first tribe is fucked. One, that tribe has voted out two people. That's ENOUGH strategy for a hierarchy to form, but not so much so that the tribe can become unified in a common alliance. Cambodia had the issue of one alliance getting blindsided with Vytas' boot, followed immediately by a flip that took out Shirin. Ta Keo was split in essence. Game Changers was more swapfucking than anything, as they were more united. But then Ghost Island, Gonzalez/Jacob get booted, but you have an established group of five versus a group of three, and that division shone through in Malolo's overall inability to work as a unit.

MEANWHILE, point two, the tribe that wins twice never has to really establish a hierarchy or show their hand, so you have situations like with Kellyn, where they think they're completely secure, and it's smarter to stick with the original tribe than trying to make a new alliance with the minority. If the swap happened a few rounds later, even if the tribe won four immunities in a row, cracks would still have formed at that point to MAYBE make people question the whole "Naviti Strong" notion.
---

Yeah but none of that is ground breaking. That flip that early is fine in a returning player season but the feedback is out there that it shouldn't happen in a newbie season.
---

I'm just saying that the producers took the wrong lessons from Cambodia specifically because it was popular, and have made no effort to fix the problems.
---