Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 448: Money in the Briefcase

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheRock1525 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't like invincible characters who win all the time, who dominate matches and are rarely allowed to look weak as the top babyface.

You sure picked the wrong company then

Not really. Most "invincible" babyfaces are at least asked to sell and seem like they're in trouble before they overcome their odds. What is Braun overcoming? Nothing. He's the biggest, strongest guy who never loses and always dominates his matches.

He lost to Kalisto once! <___<
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Braun might be unbeatable and all that, but Raw is still built around Roman right now. They work in so many references to him in unrelated segments.

Yeah, RAW is pretty close to unwatchable when it's two top babyfaces are bland and blander.

I mean, by default with no Brock around their top heel is Kevin Owens. Who has been repeatedly destroyed by Braun over the weeks ending with him being the first person completely taken out of the MitB match.

But I'm sure his buddy Sami Zayn is doing O-oh he just got squashed by bland babyface Bobby Lashley.
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Because Kalisto did a lucha thing.
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Strife2 posted...

Because Kalisto did a lucha thing.

Was it a good lucha thing?
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TheRock1525 posted...

There's nothing much to explore more on a personal level between those two

Miz said that he has to carry the company because Bryan quit. Bryan returned. So why does Miz not respect him? That's the big piece of what to explore on Miz's side.

On Bryan's side: Miz said that he has to carry the company because Bryan quit. Bryan returned. So why isn't Bryan out for some just vengeance? Has Bryan lost that killer edge that got him started in WWE?

TheRock1525 posted...

they've already said what they're gonna say and the promos themselves won't do much leading up to the match.

In 2016, neither man was a father. There is a lot more at stake now. And inserting that quality into the feud continues the trend of the realism surrounding Daniel Bryan while at the same time continuing the trend of Miz exploiting his family, except now, someone can actually call Miz on his bullshit when he commercializes his daughter's birth. There's a lot to work with. Does fatherhood change the attitudes of each guy, and in what way? Is Miz more desperate now than ever to disprove what he said about Bryan, or can Bryan let it go?

TheRock1525 posted...

Like not unless you have Miz go a more blood-feud route and try to end Bryan's career again or something.

And that's how you might eventually build it. It's not blood-feud; it's desperation. And it's something Miz's character has always been good at it; this is a great opportunity to tear Miz down at the end of a feud so he can experience just a LITTLE bit of evolution.

Then put the title on either of them and you have another feud down the line that could be built on something ELSE special.

You want a superficial change to the status quo, and I'm asking for something with a little oomph.
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And by all means, don't let me piss in your cheerios about Braun if you like him. I get the appeal, but it just does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not normally an NXT guy but the gulf between how they handle their babyfaces vs. the main roster is just huge.
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Fucking whatever man, I'm not going to argue with you anymore about how I feel about something. They literally didn't go the route I wanted so it doesn't matter.
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I actually agree Braun has lost a lot of his edge. Like I'm not nearly as excited about a potential Braun run as I would've been 9 months ago

I just think someone with as little focus as he has in the grand scheme of things "ruining the product for you" is peculiar
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Lopen posted...

I don't see how it matters that much though.

Like his show relevance to me has felt more on par with The Undefeated Tatanka lately. I mean yeah he wins a lot but he's just a guy. He's not hijacking the entire show's focus or anything. I'd understand it a lot more if he actually was clearly the top guy.

He's the focal point of the main event storyline for the past month or so. And by focal point I mean the entire story is "can 7 other people combined stop him? probably not". He might not be the clear top guy but he's certainly a big deal
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TheRock1525 posted...

Yeah, RAW is pretty close to unwatchable when it's two top babyfaces are bland and blander.

This is where we disagree. I think Roman is dull and Raw is pretty close to unwatchable, but Braun is one of the few entertaining things about Raw to me.
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Lopen posted...

I just think someone with as little focus as he has in the grand scheme of things "ruining the product for you" is peculiar

He's gonna be the next world champ! He is the grand scheme!
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I'll just be honest - I really like it when Gargano loses.

Ciampa actually feels like he deserves to win.

That's not my preferred flavor of wrestling.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Fucking whatever man, I'm not going to argue with you anymore about how I feel about something. They literally didn't go the route I wanted so it doesn't matter.

I don't... understand why having an enjoyable conversation about how we see a feud differently is an argument.

This is literally what this topic is for.
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TheRock1525 posted...

He's gonna be the next world champ! He is the grand scheme!

I dunno man if MitB history serves he's going to start a losing streak right about now
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scarletspeed7 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Fucking whatever man, I'm not going to argue with you anymore about how I feel about something. They literally didn't go the route I wanted so it doesn't matter.

I don't... understand why having an enjoyable conversation about how we see a feud differently is an argument.

This is literally what this topic is for.

Yeah, nobody is going on a MWC style rant on anyone else here, this is really civil for a wrestling discussion.
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Eddv posted...

I'll just be honest - I really like it when Gargano loses.

Ciampa actually feels like he deserves to win.

That's not my preferred flavor of wrestling.

I mean, at this point, I'm just along for the ride and enjoying where the story goes. The characters keep evolving and I'm loving it.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't... understand why having an enjoyable conversation about how we see a feud differently is an argument.

Because it wasn't enjoyable, it basically just became "your feelings are wrong" when I'm literally describing how I feel about the situation.

To me, there's nothing much new to revisit to Miz/Bryan without a new wrinkle. You add fatherhood when it's literally something both of them have used in promos. And other people have used against Bryan too, like Samoa Joe recently, so why would Miz using it be any different?

A cash-in, a direct wrestling interaction, would add a new dynamic to it that would make the matches more interesting, to play into previous points while creating new ones.
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Not to mention above all things: Miz needs a world title run. It's ridiculous how good he's been running for multiple years now and has not held the top title again.
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He was actually not saying your feelings were wrong as much as the facts you were stating behind those feelings were wrong. Like if you say

there's nothing much to explore more on a personal level between those two

and he gives you examples of things they could do that don't involve a world title crutch that are new, in some ways what you said about that was wrong.

Like I guess the difference is that he wasn't trying to attack your opinions as I read it, more just trying to explain that there were a lot of options to go with for that feud.
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I would also like to say that Joe was quietly booked as the second best guy in the match behind Braun, so I'm assuming that AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe will be your next WWE title feud.

God, it really is hard to see who Styles drops the title to now.
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I think the story youre describing is still possible even without the briefcase, but I think it needs to be kept in mind that AJ is still REALLY popular and won't just disappear so any story you're telling involving the title is going to necessarily involve AJ which is going to muddy up your story
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Lopen posted...

He was actually not saying your feelings were wrong as much as the facts you were stating behind those feelings were wrong. Like if you say

there's nothing much to explore more on a personal level between those two

and he gives you examples of things they could do that don't involve a world title crutch that are new, in some ways what you said about that was wrong.

Like I guess the difference is that he wasn't trying to attack your opinions as I read it, more just trying to explain that there were a lot of options to go with for that feud.

I don't agree with this, mostly because the ideas he suggested have been tapped into already.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Because it wasn't enjoyable, it basically just became "your feelings are wrong" when I'm literally describing how I feel about the situation.

I literally just was saying how I feel in response to how you feel, so I can learn more about your position but if you want to play the victim card that's fine.

TheRock1525 posted...

To me, there's nothing much new to revisit to Miz/Bryan without a new wrinkle. You add fatherhood when it's literally something both of them have used in promos. And other people have used against Bryan too, like Samoa Joe recently, so why would Miz using it be any different?

Well IN MY OPINION, I think there's something different when you put faux fatherhood up against real fatherhood. And I don't mean that I think Miz is a bad father, but I think his character is disingenious and Bryan calling him out on it would be a great way to give that feud further emotional anchoring. But I can see where someone else might not think so, since it;s just an OPINION, and one I thought I would enjoy hearing more about in a conversation but clearly you aren't interested so I will stop.

TheRock1525 posted...

A cash-in, a direct wrestling interaction, would add a new dynamic to it that would make the matches more interesting, to play into previous points while creating new ones.

I agree with that general statement but I think the emotion is just too good to dilute it with too much at once. I think maybe I would enjoy the cash-in if it happened in like November and the Bryan feud had passed a seeming conclusion. But again, I like storytelling in feuds that goes for a long period of time. Omega/Okada is a great recent example of a story that really stretched over time but added new elements to each character so that a return to it mattered. But, again, this is just an opinion and since I offend you with mine so much, I will stop.
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They have? I must have missed those episodes of Smackdown where Miz and Bryan had much of any interaction at all since Bryan returned.
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Lopen posted...

They have? I must have missed those episodes of Smackdown where Miz and Bryan had much of any interaction at all since Bryan returned.

I'm not saying that they've been tapped into for direct interactions with each other, just that they've been used for character development purposes already.

It's like when Ambrose calls John Cena a part-timer and then Roman Reigns calls John Cena the same. I don't go "whoa, what a new wrinkle this is!"
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TheRock1525 posted...

just that they've been used for character development purposes already.

It's like when Ambrose calls John Cena a part-timer and then Roman Reigns calls John Cena the same. I don't go "whoa, what a new wrinkle this is!"

I don't think anything he's mentioned has really been explored with Miz or Bryan in any sort of feud context with either guy and any opponent yet but okay.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Lopen posted...

They have? I must have missed those episodes of Smackdown where Miz and Bryan had much of any interaction at all since Bryan returned.

I'm not saying that they've been tapped into for direct interactions with each other, just that they've been used for character development purposes already.

It's like when Ambrose calls John Cena a part-timer and then Roman Reigns calls John Cena the same. I don't go "whoa, what a new wrinkle this is!"

I don't want you to believe this is an attack, but in my opinion, no one has talked to the Miz about how he uses his role as a father disingenuously at all. And no one Miz has faced has being the role of fatherhood in their character's persona since he became one.
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And I apologize for snapping, but it's basically like you're accusing me of wanting a lesser thing for wanting a cash-in involvement, like I'm deliberately saying "yes, I want the worse thing" when to me it clearly isn't the worse thing, it's the better option.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't want you to believe this is an attack, but in my opinion, no one has talked to the Miz about how he uses his role as a father disingenuously at all. And no one Miz has faced has being the role of fatherhood in their character's persona since he became one.

Miz had an entire segment on commentary talking about how being a dad was the best and changed his life, and the commentators were figuratively rolling their eyes about it.
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TheRock1525 posted...

And I apologize for snapping, but it's basically like you're accusing me of wanting a lesser thing for wanting a cash-in involvement, like I'm deliberately saying "yes, I want the worse thing" when to me it clearly isn't the worse thing, it's the better option.

No, I definitely feel like you've misread my words. I'm really trying to say (and pardon me if it doesn't come across this way), "Why waste two feuds in one?" It becomes too clean and tidy and neat and I think that you lose opportunities to develop characters. Like I said in one of my posts, the cash-in could be great later, but I think you miss out on some great potential storytelling first.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

And I apologize for snapping, but it's basically like you're accusing me of wanting a lesser thing for wanting a cash-in involvement, like I'm deliberately saying "yes, I want the worse thing" when to me it clearly isn't the worse thing, it's the better option.

No, I definitely feel like you've misread my words. I'm really trying to say (and pardon me if it doesn't come across this way), "Why waste two feuds in one?" It becomes too clean and tidy and neat and I think that you lose opportunities to develop characters. Like I said in one of my posts, the cash-in could be great later, but I think you miss out on some great potential storytelling first.

Well for one thing, Bryan might not be around much longer. It's great to think long term but dude's contract is almost up.

For another, we have no idea how much longer he will wrestle beyond just contract issues.

Finally, these are two 37 year old guys who have had long, productive careers. How much longer do you think you need to drag this out?

And to me, I don't think you miss out on potential storytelling, I think you add to it. You don't have to lose anything, you're giving it more stakes.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Miz had an entire segment on commentary talking about how being a dad was the best and changed his life, and the commentators were figuratively rolling their eyes about it.

I know they did, but there are several reasons why that doesn't matter:

1) Please don't disregard this, but the commentary team is such a joke that no one takes their opinions THAT seriously.

2) The in-ring universe and the commentary universe are kind of isolated from one another. An actual confrontation on a mic is in a different realm of mattering that what Michael Cole says. There is a certain level of finality to what happens between wrestlers that doesn't exist with the commentary team. They could say, "WWE is entering a new era," and everyone would ignore it until, like, AJ said so and then created a new match type or something.

3) Eye rolling from Coach never matters because Coach (and Byron) have been neutered and made to feel as if they are literally the worst things on Earth by Corey, therefore destroying their credibility. It almost does more to help Miz's case than harm it.
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Miz wrestling the style he wrestles and with the schedule he has now (he's not exactly an every show workhorse) could go for another 15 years without really losing a step if he really wanted to I think. I don't think he would, but I do think he could.

Bryan peacing out is definitely a real concern though. Building a rich feud mythology with a guy who could very well leave this summer is a risky venture. But they'd probably secure a new contract for him before committing to anything anyway.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Well for one thing, Bryan might not be around much longer. It's great to think long term but dude's contract is almost up.

For another, we have no idea how much longer he will wrestle beyond just contract issues.

Finally, these are two 37 year old guys who have had long, productive careers. How much longer do you think you need to drag this out?

I tend to not think about contract stuff when I'm thinking of storytelling, personally. It's a fair point, but I don't really like getting lost in the weeds on that. I guess it's pragmatic but it's so uninteresting to get caught up in contract disputes.

I don't think being 37 matters. I'm talking about a timeline that ends at Wrestlemania 2019. Like I mentioned with Okada/Omega, I just see several opportunities to touch on it multiple times. That feud has only gone about two years now, but it's been able to return with different wrinkles several times, and I think Miz and Bryan have that potential. Bryan is an amazing face, Miz is a great heel, they have a certain chemistry built into the feud... I just see that sort of off-and-on potential for a couple years.

TheRock1525 posted...

I think you add to it. You don't have to lose anything, you're giving it more stakes.

This is probably the place we really separate because I hate the notion of needing more stakes in a personal feud. It reminds me of Ric Flair and Sting. There were times where it was about a title, and there were times when it wasn't. But it was an evolving feud, and it ran personal to professional; it never needed stakes because the chemistry was there.

But that's just me. It's like throwing zombies into Pride and Prejudice because it would make the story more physical.
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For what it's worth, your idea is probably better than mine for a WWE feud. They can't write worth a damn, so at least your way means the feud matters even without the shitty fucking terrible schlock that passes for quality there right now.
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Does anyone else think that Braun will go the RVD route? "I'm a better man than Brock Lesnar and now I'm going to have a title match that he can't hide from me! No triple threat, no rules just me vs the BEAST!"
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I can see braun trying to cash in on some RAW and brock escaping with heyman saying his client doesn't fight without proper buildup for $$$
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What's next for Nakamura

I can see this feud not being over with still
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ffmasterjose posted...

What's next for Nakamura

I can see this feud not being over with still

Jeff Hardy over the US title.
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Hey guys, if you have time, check out the WWE24 on the Hardys. It's actually pretty great.
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Also I just reminded myself that Alexa Bliss is women's champion again.

Blaaaaaaaaargh.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Hey guys, if you have time, check out the WWE24 on the Hardys. It's actually pretty great.

I just watched it too. It is indeed pretty good.
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Underrated thing from the Kizuna Road show that just happened.

Okada looking like a sad lost puppy without his title belt.

Seriously, I felt bad for him.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/1008528681453654017/photo/1

For @Jakyl25
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G1 Climax Blocks

A Block
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Kazuchika Okada
Togi Makabe
Michael Elgin
Minoru Suzuki
EVIL
Jay White
Yoshi-Hashi
Bad Luck Fale
Hangman Page

B Block
Kenny Omega
Kota Ibushi
Tetsuya Naito
Hirooki Goto
Tomohiro Ishii
Toru Yano
Tama Tonga
SANADA
Zack Sabre Jr
Juice Robinson

OMG IT'S HAPPENING
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I am fine with anyone having the Raw Women's Title over fucking Nia Jax. Nia Jax is the dirty worst performer and she is incredibly unsafe. I hate watching her matches because it always seems like we're just waiting to see if she legitimately hurts people. She almost hurt Ronda legitimately no less than three times. Nia had one big spot to take a shoulder dive into the corner and took the weakest most lamest shoulder dive ever, then Ronda takes one from Alexa and totally outshines her.

Screw Nia Jax. Don't let her have the title. I wish it were someone other than Alexa, but I will always take Alexa as champ over Nia, especially when Nia has this schizophrenic booking and this Ronda feud made the Nia/Alexa feud utterly meaningless.
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The thing I like about yet another Alexa reign is that she can talk circles around any woman on Raw, and pretty much everybody on SD too. If only her in ring work could match her character and mic work, she'd be one of the best ever. Imagine if she could have Charlotte's in ring ability with the rest of her skillset. It'll never happen, but it'd be great!

Overall though, I still wish it would have been Becky.
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Left kind of pissed at the company in spots, May just denounce RAW.

Kind of like just because they've been around longer and run longer they get all the fuckin' breaks.

That said, I don't mind Strowman with the case.
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I will say Ronda is ridiculously good in the ring for someone with no wrestling experience. She sold like crazy for Nia, almost with Sasha levels of abandon (crazy bumps but more control if that makes any sense). She actually made a Nia match watchable.

Imagine what happens if she faces someone actually good.
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Oh, and FUCK Alexa.
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