Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 448: Money in the Briefcase

(+) Yeah! (+)

Only...70% of the time
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Interesting debate between Dave and Bryan: Did Ronda sell TOO much? Should she be more dominant?

My opinion is no. I think, character-wise, we know she has incredible skill and can beat you in seconds if youre not careful, but the big question mark was toughness. We saw in UFC how poorly she reacted to someone getting the advantage on her.

I think it was important to show that she could take a beating and still come back and be in position to win.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Interesting debate between Dave and Bryan: Did Ronda sell TOO much? Should she be more dominant?

My opinion is no. I think, character-wise, we know she has incredible skill and can beat you in seconds if youre not careful, but the big question mark was toughness. We saw in UFC how poorly she reacted to someone getting the advantage on her.

I think it was important to show that she could take a beating and still come back and be in position to win.

Yeah, I agree. The booking was actually really great in that match. It's such a far cry from the build-up!
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Its just weird given that the other 8-9 big name MMA talents turned wrestlers, just sell differently.

and it works very well and like Ronda, nearly all those guys took in some cases heavier beatings in MMA.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Interesting debate between Dave and Bryan: Did Ronda sell TOO much? Should she be more dominant?

My opinion is no. I think, character-wise, we know she has incredible skill and can beat you in seconds if youre not careful, but the big question mark was toughness. We saw in UFC how poorly she reacted to someone getting the advantage on her.

I think it was important to show that she could take a beating and still come back and be in position to win.

Not sure if it was intentional or not but I like that pretty much everything that really messed with her was stuff that's really un-MMA, the tackle into the corner, headbutt, being slammed into the barricade. It kind of sells that if you fight Ronda on her terms she'll destroy you, but she can be caught off guard by stuff she's not used to and needs to actually take some of those hits before she can really know if she can handle them or not. It certainly opens the door for better matches and booking for her if you don't make her look invincible to everything.
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I'll put it one more way to close the discussion on my end

Bayley feels like a person in a wrestling match playing a character
Alexa feels like a character having a wrestling match

Bayley has always been iffy on the character front in the actual matches. Even in NXT the surrounding story is what drove her to be compelling by facilitating situations where her character was inherently believable. But like, in a contextless match with no stakes I never really had a grasp of what Bayley is about beyond the entrance and the one taunt or two.

She's a pretty good wrestler if given the time and motivation but on the character front I've always felt she's the type that can be carried to put it in wrestling terms. But it's not really her fault. I think most wrestlers nowadays that go through NXT aren't much better. I think NXT highly standardizes a lot of things and only people who have a really good mind for the business or acting can get through that.
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This is a good point:

Owens essentially took the exact same bump as Foley did off the Cell, and he will get none of the benefit
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I thought Rollins/Elias was fantastic, but I also tend to look at stuff in a vacuum

I actually have trouble going "Well, this was good, but X was better." I'm definitely the type that looks at the details of the specific match at hand, and then I just don't really consider too many outside factors.

Rollins looked like a million bucks and elevated Elias. Elias worked his ass off and looked better than he ever has. Both did their jobs better than expected, and so I very much enjoyed it.
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It's more about passing the eye test, rather than a booking perspective. Did Ronda feel like a wrestler, rather than CM Punk, who felt like a person pretending at being a fighter and sucking badly? Ronda is already really solid despite some glaring flaws. I think people can look at this and think, "Ok. Most matches from now on are must see affairs," instead of "must miss dumpster fires." The crowd was invested from the word go, and Ronda held her end of the bargain better than anyone could have hoped for.

We saw what happened when good wrestlers (Asuka) go from great wrestlers (Charlotte) to shitty ones (Carmella). The matches suffer, the builds suffer, and by extension, the crowd doesn't give a crap. No one gave Ronda or Nia a chance to be good (or at best) were intrigued by the possibility it could be a carwreck.

The challenge now is ensuring Ronda keeps people invested by NOT putting her in matches unless its monthly/bi-monthly. Do the Brock Lesnar thing, but do it where she actually shows the fuck up. I think that's all people want out of this. Ronda being good is helping the division, because she made Nia look like a million bucks. I can only imagine what Ronda and Charlotte or Ronda and Natalya could do.
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Jakyl25 posted...

This is a good point:

Owens essentially took the exact same bump as Foley did off the Cell, and he will get none of the benefit

Diff is Foley made a career out of being a Fucking Living Breathing Crash Test Dummy who *willing* to DIE for his craft to the point Vince told him ''Mick, I respect the hell outta whatcha did but NEVER *ever* do something like that again you crazy son of a bitch!''
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Also, that outside sequence where Elias dodged the dive and very quickly ran Rollins into the barricade/post/steps/etc. was possibly my favorite thing of the night. Like, it played me. Even though I knew it wasn't going to end there, I had a moment of fully believing it could end there.

EDIT: ...Second favorite thing, actually. Miz being a genius at the start of the MitB was amazing.
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Strife2 posted...

good wrestlers (Asuka) go from great wrestlers (Charlotte) to shitty ones (Carmella).

Did you imply Charlotte is a better wrestler than Asuka here though
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No. I like Charlotte more as a "WWE product," but Asuka is better at different things (mostly striking and submissions). Asuka matches feel like she's kicking the shit out of people, while Charlotte is very well-rounded and athletic. They are each good at different things.

Anyway, I forgot to mention that Ronda made the Nia match look good, but just because two wrestlers are great, they might not have the chemistry to back it up (Styles v. Owens for a recent example). The prospect of Ronda versus better opponents is there, but there is no guarantee the matches themselves will be better just because of said name. Odds are slim, but who knows.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Don't know if anyone else has seen this Youtube channel, but this guy reorchestrates wrestling themes and they are really, really, REALLY good. His latest is Naito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeoe0Trl0RQ" data-time="

Also, highly recommend this Kevin Owens one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBMZepiMf00" data-time="

His Marty Scurrl song is leaps and bounds better than the actual theme.
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Yeah, didn't want to spam too many, but go listen to the others if you enjoy them! I normally don't like Marty's theme but that changed my opinion a lot.
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Also I'm having like a meltdown just thinking about how amazing the G1 is going to be. This will be the first one I've followed from start to finish.

Preliminary thoughts: Block B is the most stacked thing I've ever seen, and unfortunately it all but confirms my worries that Naito will not be main eventing Wrestle Kingdom this year.
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Btw, I appreciate how Samoa Joe DGAF when dealing with Braun. I appreciate a good old fashioned badass heel who does take cheapshots and cuts corners but isn't chickenshit. Like I don't even mind he's a bit more talk than action, he never panics or appears scared in dealing with anyone.
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The thing is whenever they build up Joe for Brock, it all falls apart like Pissed-on bog roll.
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Ishii vs. Yano
Ishii vs. Ibushi
Ishii vs. Naito
Ishii vs. Omega
Ishii vs. Goto
Ishii vs. ZSJ

Looks like Ishii makes his annual run at best brawler starting now.
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Jakyl25 posted...

This is a good point:

Owens essentially took the exact same bump as Foley did off the Cell, and he will get none of the benefit

Yuuuuup.

He was a moron to take that bump.

At the very least save it for the one on one blowoff to this feud with Strowman.
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voltch posted...

Ishii vs. Yano
Ishii vs. Ibushi
Ishii vs. Naito
Ishii vs. Omega
Ishii vs. Goto
Ishii vs. ZSJ

Looks like Ishii makes his annual run at best brawler starting now.

I cant wait for Yano to win this block
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Well, Owens did have a crash pad.
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Also Foley only retroactively benefited from it.
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https://www.wwe.com/shows/wwe-united-kingdom-championship-tournament/article/wwe-launches-new-uk-series

UK Tag Titles and UK Womens Title incoming
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ExThaNemesis posted...

unfortunately it all but confirms my worries that Naito will not be main eventing Wrestle Kingdom this year.

How are you figuring this? To me the most obvious path is having Naito beat Kenny in block play, win the belt at KOPW, and defend against G1 winner Okada at WK.
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Jakyl25 posted...

This is a good point:

Owens essentially took the exact same bump as Foley did off the Cell, and he will get none of the benefit

This makes me sad. Owens is so damn good and should be in a better position. Hard to do a lot on Raw though with the whole absentee champion thing. Hopefully only a few more months of that!
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Eh. Owens has done well for himself.

You dont need to be at the "entire show revolves around me" level to be a star. Plus he already had that once and frankly it was only okay.
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Eddv posted...

Eh. Owens has done well for himself.

You dont need to be at the "entire show revolves around me" level to be a star. Plus he already had that once and frankly it was only okay.

If you're talking about when he was the champion, the whole show didn't revolve around him. It revolved around the Authority. That was the whole issue.
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NBIceman posted...

If you're talking about when he was the champion, the whole show didn't revolve around him. It revolved around the Authority. That was the whole issue.

This. Owens might have been Universal Champion for a while, but he was never the focus of the show. With most first title runs, he wasn't given a real shot to run with it and show what he can do. I want them to give him a real run, just like I want Becky to be given a real run. I don't need it to be something like AJ or Roman get, but I'd like to see them get something.
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Eddv posted...

Eh. Owens has done well for himself.

You dont need to be at the "entire show revolves around me" level to be a star. Plus he already had that once and frankly it was only okay.

Owens and Mick Foley's careers are pretty similar, when you think about it.
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Alexa can do that double jointed arm thing where her arm looks severely broken. Guessing that gets utilized if she feuds with Ronda.
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Uh. It is super fucking shitty that Ronda just assaulted her friend Kurt for no reason.
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Well, this is one way to keep her off TV for a while.
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That was actually decent acting work by Ronda there too. Keeps her off TV until the next PPV so she's not in the title hunt, and leaves people wanting to know what she does next. Great start to Raw (at least in my eyes)
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Ronda just wrecking people. Good work.
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I wonder if he's gonna drop it next week.
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"Money in the Contract."

Cole picked up things from Jojo.
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My boy with the IC Title!
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Coach still butthurt about Twitter.
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I swear to god.

I have been hearing the same commentary during every match with Sasha Banks and Bayley in it for the past six months.
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Well, if the last six months have taught us anything, it's that they're going to ignore all of this Sasha Bayley buildup and keep slow burning this feud, instead of actually getting it over with.
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That could have been a lot better if one of those two could act.
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Oye. I hope this doesn't mean that Roman is getting Brock next. Even though Braun has the briefcase Roman is still the person they're building around.
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Lashley and Roman, two of the worst talkers in the business, in a verbal showdown. This is horrible.

Would still prefer to see Lashley instead of Roman again.
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I give up on Raw. I'm going to sleep.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I swear to god.

I have been hearing the same commentary during every match with Sasha Banks and Bayley in it for the past six months.

What even is this angle?

Lashley vs Zayn, okay, thats just typical WWE writing at its absolute worst.

Sasha and Bayley are some new weird variant of bad writing that takes a long term commitment not often seen in WWE
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Wait so Dolph likes secondary titles now?
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I want the Sasha vs Bayley feud to just end already

It hasn't even started yet and it's still gone on for months longer than it should have
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Owens is so good
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WWE 2K19... One of the most anticipated video games in history? That's absurd even by WWE claim standards.
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