Board 8 > Han FINALLY watches Infinity War, with live updates!

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean, they killed off half the universe. Makes sense to undo it.

They're clearly setting up the original Avengers for their swan song. Next movie will have the deaths that stick. Though I expected more non-snap deaths in this movie.

I was convinced they were going to kill Pepper. That's a death that would ruin me.
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Waluigi1 posted...

So are you then arguing that Infinity War was poorly written and acted?

no. I'm defending the idea that it's possible for people to not be invested in infinity war and still enjoy other movies. which is just basic common sense but well we are on the internet so this is what happens.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

honestly idgaf if it's considered a bad argument

I'd rather people defend stuff that I like with good arguments rather than bad arguments.

(not that I think you specifically are guilty of this anyway -- you weren't the one making those bad arguments.)
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

honestly idgaf if it's considered a bad argument, you just have to be the type of person who can get invested in the emotions of the characters in the moment and really feel for them. Suspension of disbelief, sure you can write it off as that I guess. Doesn't affect how great I think the movie and ending is, all you're doing is depriving yourself more of enjoyment really which I guess I feel bad for you then.

Some people are just so....disillusioned I guess could be a word for it? "OH MAN YOU KNOW IN REAL LIFE ALL THESE STARS AREN'T GONNA BE LAID OFF CONTRACTS SO THEY CAN'T REALLY BE DEAD." Alright yea sure, but in the moment in this universe and for these characters this is real shit. Again some people really can't get past it, they're just not built for it. Which is fine, more for me to enjoy. One might say it's more about the journey rather than the destination eh?

Yeah to be clear I do think this also.

I knew what was going to happen from comics.

I know they're coming back from comics.

The emotional punch, at least for me, came from how well RDJ and Tom Holland acted it out. Other people might not have got that emotional punch due to the knowledge I had going in, while for some others the acting just might not have sold it. And that's just kinda what happens because different people have different reactions.
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I also don't really get some of the reactions. Did I feel an emotional punch when Spidey bit it? Sure I did, but I also afterwards went "well, whatever, he's coming back anyway in A4" and that's that.

I feel like nobody will care about Infinity War once A4 comes out, and if from next year you do some kind of Avengers watchthrough it'll exist in this weird limbo where it is a really enjoyable movie to watch but it also maybe doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
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I didn't feel that much of an emotional punch, but I felt awe from the kind of narrative originality I had just seen.

I mean, you don't see this kind of thing happen in a blockbuster. Maybe in a comic, but MCU is constantly treading new ground for movies, and IW just reached a new level.

They wrote a movie whose main character is a villain, and it was a 2 hour show of the villain winning. It started with him winning, and ended with him winning. It was utter and complete victory for him. There isn't even an epilogue, he wins and then it ends. Post-credits scene just shows him winning even more. And then the following movie has another post-credis scene with him winning more. There will be another movie, but nothing hints at it. We only have a release date, but not a name.

That's the stuff people praise MCU for. They break the boundaries of what blockbuster films are allowed to do, and cash in bigger than everyone in the process.

Empire Strikes Back?

How is it not the Empire winning, and then continuing to win until after it ended.
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

There will be another movie, but nothing hints at it. We only have a release date, but not a name.

yeah I did like this aspect. if you want to talk about infinity wars as its own artistic property it was really nice that they didn't include anything IN the movie that actively broke this immersion. especially given marvel's adherence to the teaser post credit structure it could have been very easy for them to include some kind of pointless scene that hints at people coming back, which would have really undermined the impact of the final act of the movie.
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profDEADPOOL posted...

Empire Strikes Back?

I dunno... maybe? It's not the same thing imo, it has back and forths, and it ends with the heroes going to rescue Han. And the villain's final victory is a thing that only happens at the end of it.

A better comparison would be film that was entirely focused on Darth Vader and whose final scene was Luke falling in the pit.

Like, Empire is a film where the empire wins, but it's not a film about the empire winning.

IW is Thanos - The Film. It's his show. It's the story of how a man decided to kill half of the universe and focuses on his journey. Nobody gets his level of character development. The stuff with the heroes battling on Earth is basically filler, the meat of the film are the scenes with Thanos.

The film even ends with him considering if it was worth it. That's it, a complete history.

I think I'm having a hard time to express myself, but point it, they gave Thanos's arc a sense of closure that is normally only reserved for the good guys. It could end here and it would be a complete history.

MCU has a bunch of mediocre villains, and Thanos almost makes up for all of them.

MariaTaylor posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

There will be another movie, but nothing hints at it. We only have a release date, but not a name.

yeah I did like this aspect. if you want to talk about infinity wars as its own artistic property it was really nice that they didn't include anything IN the movie that actively broke this immersion. especially given marvel's adherence to the teaser post credit structure it could have been very easy for them to include some kind of pointless scene that hints at people coming back, which would have really undermined the impact of the final act of the movie.

I mean if it was DC we would have seen a scene with Thanos stopping to see a replay of Captain Marvel fighting.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Like, Empire is a film where the empire wins, but it's not a film about the empire winning.

IW is Thanos - The Film. It's his show. It's the story of how a man decided to kill half of the universe and focuses on his journey. Nobody gets his level of character development. The stuff with the heroes battling on Earth is basically filler, the meat of the film are the scenes with Thanos.

The film even ends with him considering if it was worth it. That's it, a complete history.

I think I'm having a hard time to express myself, but point it, they gave Thanos's arc a sense of closure that is normally only reserved for the good guys. It could end here and it would be a complete history.

MCU has a bunch of mediocre villains, and Thanos almost makes up for all of them.

Yeah I see what you're saying about how Thanos was the protagonist, not just someone who won throughout the entire film.
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MariaTaylor posted...

no. I'm defending the idea that it's possible for people to not be invested in infinity war and still enjoy other movies. which is just basic common sense but well we are on the internet so this is what happens.

OK, but then people should differentiate between them. Why did IW not cause that suspension of belief when others did?

The answer tends to be that we know about the future of the MCU, which means Infinity War is treated differently to other movies. It's not standalone or isolated and people are knowledgeable and jaded.
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XIII_rocks posted...

OK, but then people should differentiate between them. Why did IW not cause that suspension of belief when others did?

I don't feel like they're obligated to defend every single movie they've ever liked. saying that they didn't like one movie is enough for me to believe them that they really didn't like it.

and I don't feel like they need to justify that dislike to me because... well, I dunno. I don't see myself as the arbiter of others good taste.

XIII_rocks posted...

The answer tends to be that we know about the future of the MCU, which means Infinity War is treated differently to other movies. It's not standalone or isolated and people are knowledgeable and jaded.

sure, many people have admitted as much. I don't personally think it makes their opinion less valid or anything. do you think there's some magic potion they can drink that will make them less jaded? otherwise there isn't really anything they can do. they can either admit that they didn't enjoy it, or they can pretend to enjoy it to make you happy.
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I thought the snap was neat to see, but I still didn't feel any real emotional impact from it aside from Spider-Man (because of the acting) and Groot (because it's Groot).
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MariaTaylor posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

OK, but then people should differentiate between them. Why did IW not cause that suspension of belief when others did?

I don't feel like they're obligated to defend every single movie they've ever liked. saying that they didn't like one movie is enough for me to believe them that they really didn't like it.

and I don't feel like they need to justify that dislike to me because... well, I dunno. I don't see myself as the arbiter of others good taste.

Blatantly not what I was suggesting. I was more saying that when discussing Infinity War, it would perhaps be helpful to explain why this peril was so unaffecting when it is affecting in others? I think in the absence of that GK's point was fine. It's not about going through each and every movie or something. It's more about clarifying a position on Infinity War specifically by using a comparison.

MariaTaylor posted...

sure, many people have admitted as much. I don't personally think it makes their opinion less valid or anything. do you think there's some magic potion they can drink that will make them less jaded? otherwise there isn't really anything they can do. they can either admit that they didn't enjoy it, or they can pretend to enjoy it to make you happy.

OK, so your original post doesn't fully and truly apply to Infinity War, then. It was a broad look at what suspension of disbelief is and how you can't always draw direct comparisons but it didn't really account for the outside knowledge that a huge amount of people have and that is easily accessible to others regarding IW. I would say that if you're going to end IW with Thanos winning, suspension of belief in the way you were talking about would be virtually impossible. It doesn't apply in the same way.

I don't get why you keep making this into an issue of other people being judgemental, either, or so it seems anyway:

I don't personally think it makes their opinion less valid or anything

I don't feel like they need to justify that dislike to me because... well, I dunno. I don't see myself as the arbiter of others good taste

Is the implication here that, say, GK is, or I am?
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implication - no. when I'm talking about myself this is not implying anything about anyone else. it's just me talking about myself. very, very rarely do I mean anything beyond exactly the specific words that I have said (with the caveat that I do use colloquial definitions for words fairly often just as a result of this being casual chat)

GK - no, probably not. I think he just said something dumb without considering the broad-sweeping implications of it. as a writer myself this really bugged me. specifically the fact that (as I mentioned in my original post) it doesn't give due credit to people who CAN force suspension of disbelief, but also simultaneously apologizes for writers who fail to do it properly. just saying 'well if you can't suspend disbelief for infinity war how can you suspend disbelief for any movie' makes it sound like he's either saying infinity war is objectively the best movie ever made, or he's overlooking the fact that different people will just react differently to things than he does.

you - I have no idea. do you think his opinion is somehow less valid just because he's jaded? that seems like 'arbiter of others good taste' behavior to me. if you think that describes you then yeah I guess what I'm saying applies to you.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Blatantly not what I was suggesting. I was more saying that when discussing Infinity War, it would perhaps be helpful to explain why this peril was so unaffecting when it is affecting in others?

no, I get this. I'm just saying I don't feel like someone criticizing a movie is required to do that to earn my respect or for me to consider their point valid. if they say that they didn't like it I'm generally going to believe them. why would they lie???

obviously I think a person who writes a critically engaging and informative essay on a movie is going to produce more interesting content, but I also fully acknowledge that not everyone CAN do that and not everyone wants to do that in every topic where the subject comes up.
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Personally, this conversation broke my suspension of disbelief ages ago. Wayyyy worse than Infinity War.
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makes perfect sense. I don't think anyone was trying to get you to suspend your disbelief with this conversation.
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save
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,foiuy
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