Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic #??: Time for Blizzcon

(+) Yeah! (+)

Did we get that free pack from picking a team? I got 6 when I launched Hearthstone, but that was it.
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Shrivallah was my free legendary.

Out of my 75~ packs I got

Wardruid Loti
Zul'jin
GOLDEN Bwonsamdi
Princess Talanji
Oondasta

Pretty good I think, I really wanted Oondasta and Zul'jin plus a golden legendary is never bad.
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Outside of the legendary cards I opened in packs, I also crafted Zul'jin and Krag'wa. I might craft two of those Dragons that do seven damage as well. I expect them to be bad but when I play a theme deck I like to go full theme.

davidponte posted...

Did we get that free pack from picking a team? I got 6 when I launched Hearthstone, but that was it.

I didn't.
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I will say that as bad as Griftah and Hir'eek are, the whole set is pretty bad, so my other two Legendaries being Gral the Shark and Jan'alai the Dragonhawk is pretty awesome, especially considering I actually tried running Odd Mage last expansion to pretty bad results.

So far I've played nothing but mirror matches and hunters, plus one poor guy trying out Even Rogue.

Also, I shoved Astromancer in the deck with all those draw mechanics in the hopes of some sweet 8- and 9-drops on Turn 7. Of fucking course the first minion I'd get off of it in the new expansion is Hir'eek himself. He won't leave me alone!
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i actually think the do 7 dmg dragons will be good cards in odd warrior. Like people compare it to like blazecaller, but I think it's actually much closer to Rend Blackhand.
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it reminds me a lot of north sea kraken with a more strict activation requirement. I guess as a mostly arena player (especially back then) this is the card that comes to mind for me immediately when I see a high attack low health minion that deals damage to the board on play.
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got all this upon logging in

- my rewards from last season

- 6 free packs

- rogue spirit and loa (is this normal? did everyone get rogue? or do you get other classes? is it common to get the spirit + loa from the same class? what is it based on? is it because I've been playing a lot of rogue lately or was it just random?)

opened my packs
1. a pack with 3 rares, nothing noteworthy
2. a typical pack with garbage
3. a typical pack with garbage
4. a typical pack with garbage

(got a lot of weapons so far. I guess weapons feel more common this expansion?)

5. a typical pack with garbage (god damn I hate springpaw)
6. got my legendary in this one, it was shirvallah

woo this means I don't have to buy any packs to trigger my first legendary from this set, and I can keep hoarding gold...
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Damn, I didn't open a single copy of the 3/3/2 Warrior card with Execute attached either, that's at least four epics I'd need to craft to go full Dragon Warrior.

The most obnoxious part of every expansion release day is not getting the epics you want while you get three copies of one you'll never use. This time around, I got three copies of the Warlock spell that cuts decks in half, out of a total of something like eight epics.

MariaTaylor posted...

- rogue spirit and loa (is this normal? did everyone get rogue? or do you get other classes? is it common to get the spirit + loa from the same class? what is it based on? is it because I've been playing a lot of rogue lately or was it just random?)

Everyone gets a random Loa and two copies of the spirit from the same class. I got the Priest set.
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I didn't even get any epics in my first 6 packs
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I was going to play Dragon Warrior and OTK Paladin, but apparently there's a Banana Quest Mage deck and I can't not play a deck called Banana Quest.
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north sea kraken is a fucking 9-7
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oh really. it's been a while, for some reason I was thinking it had 5 health lol
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First thing I tried was Even Shaman with the following additions:

Belligerent Gnome to protect Flametongue totems and knife jugglers.

Shieldbreaker (2 mana silence OPOP?)

Cheaty Anklebiter (as a 1-of, replacing the 1-of Vicious Scalehide. Anklebiter isn't great, but my gut instinct says Scalehide is even worse soooo...).

I think these additions are probably good if the deck is still viable buuuuuut I also strongly advise against playing Even Shaman on ladder right now. All of your 2/2s like Knife Juggler and Dire Wolf Alpha will just die horrible deaths to Odd Mage which is about 50% of the ladder right now.

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As it happens, I also opened Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk, so I went and played some odd mage. Picked the deck recipe, missing 10 cards including Frost Lich Jaina and Dragon's Breath. OK...added Blackwald Pixie and Clockwork Automaton. Still need 6 more cards. Added Kirin Tor Mage and some secrets. Done! Expected the deck to be trash, queued up some ladder and...to my shock winning most of my games so far.

Decks right now aren't really set up to beat Ragnaros on 7. Daring Fire Eater is 3 mana deal 4 damage summon a 1/1, which is fantastic. Clockwork Automaton is much less impressive, as 7 mana deal 4 damage summon a 4/4; like a shitty firelands portal. But sometimes Clockwork Automaton lives, and then things get funny (second Automaton and Daring Fire Eater is 16 damage to the face).

I'm sure people will figure out how to beat turn 7 Ragnaros in a few days (or maybe everyone will just play deathrattle hunter or odd paladin, cause both of those sound good against it). But for now this seems to be the day 1 expansion deck that people haven't figured out how to beat.
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I've seen more than zero Kingsbanes on ladder today, which is awful.
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Just faced a Druid who played Stampeeding Roar (which got counterspelled) and then played Oondasta (which died to a 7 damage explosive Runes with spellpower from Black Cat).

Wow that felt dirty.
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I'm seeing a crap ton of hunters today, not just that I'm playing against but all the streamers I see keep running into hunters.
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Wedge Antilles posted...

I'm seeing a crap ton of hunters today, not just that I'm playing against but all the streamers I see keep running into hunters.

People trying out Zul'Jin in spell hunter, or Oondasta in big hunter.
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You haven't experienced real cancer until you've faced a Kingsbane and a Shudderwock in back to back games. The two worst cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Easily the worst 25 minutes of Hearthstone I've ever experienced, despite going 1-1.

Fuck Shudderwock.
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That was a straight up Ulti post, damn.

I'm still very upset that I was subjected to those two games, twenty minutes after closing the application and going to lie down.
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I'm playing around with Zul'jin right now, trying to see if any of the targeted spells are worth playing when they can hit your own minions. So far, I'm 100% in rolling positive outcomes for those spells.

The last game made me feel a bit of an idiot, though. Opponent plays Rexxar, and then I play Zul'Jin on my next turn. Two turns later I play my own Rexxar. We essentially do nothing but trade our hero power beasts for a number of turns until he plays... Lab Recruiter? What? And the history bar doesn't tell me where the hell it came from, and I spend the entire rest of the match trying to figure out what the hell happened.

About five minutes after the game was over, I remembered I was playing against a Rogue.
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I have somehow managed to dodge this entire topic until today. Go me?
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Assuming the answer is yes to both, maybe someone here knows the answer for sure. When Zul'jin casts a secret you already have in play, or when it casts one and your secret tree is full, does the opponent see which secret it is? I know Yogg used to work like this, not sure if it's still the same or not.

I'm trying out a Subject 9 version now and I have way too many different secret types for Zul'jin to ever play all of them.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Caverns Below is worse, dave.

Holy shit you're right. I must have completely scrubbed that card from my brain because of all the bullshit I've had to deal with due to it.

We've got a solid top 3 though with the two I mentioned.
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Odd mage list that Im playing right now:

### Odd Mage
# Class: Mage
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (1) Arcane Artificer
# 2x (3) Black Cat
# 1x (3) Gluttonous Ooze
# 2x (3) Lone Champion
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (3) Voodoo Doll
# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
# 2x (5) Arcane Tyrant
# 2x (5) Blast Wave
# 2x (5) Bonfire Elemental
# 2x (5) Dragon's Fury
# 1x (5) Elise the Trailblazer
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (7) Baron Geddon
# 2x (7) Flamestrike
# 1x (7) Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk
# 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
# 1x (9) Frost Lich Jaina
#
AAECAc2xAgjQAtPFAs/HApvTAsPqAp74AqCAA6iHAwvsB5vCAsrDAtHTAtvTAtfhApbkAr fxAs7yAr36AqaHAwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

I guess its fairly similar to the recipe, though I didnt build off of it. I took out most of the 1-cost cards in exchange for some more threes, and some more value cards. It might still need Alexstraza in the future, but its working really well playing as a more defensive deck right now.

I'm living that Galvadon life, and I'm loving it.
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You know, the more I play with Clockwork Automaton in odd mage, the more I think it belongs in the deck. (At least in a version that doesn't have Frost Lich Jaina).

Firelands portal was deal 5 damage, summon a 5 drop for 7. Clockwork Automaton is deal 4 damage summon a 5 drop for 7. 4 damage is...noticeably worse than 5, but honestly probably still marginally playable. But automaton also has combos.

Combos with Daring Fire Eater for 8 damage. If an automaton lives a turn, second automaton + Daring Fire Eater is 16 face damage (I've done this twice now, both times against hunter I think).
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It's still early but I'm getting pretty convinced that spell hunter will be that deck that's just a little too strong but blizzard ignores it for months because "rotation is coming and we hate nerfing stuff".
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https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/brian-kiblers-rastakhans-elemental-odd-mage/

I've been playing that Kibler list to mostly medicore results.
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I've been playing a non-elemental version of Odd Mage that I just plopped together myself that incentivizes value over everything else.

### Custom Mage
# Class: Mage
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (1) Arcane Artificer
# 2x (1) Daring Fire-Eater
# 2x (3) Black Cat
# 1x (3) Ironbeak Owl
# 1x (3) Mind Control Tech
# 2x (3) Pyromaniac
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (3) Voodoo Doll
# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
# 2x (5) Blast Wave
# 2x (5) Dragon's Fury
# 1x (5) Elise the Trailblazer
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 2x (7) Astromancer
# 2x (7) Flamestrike
# 1x (7) Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk
# 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
# 1x (9) Frost Lich Jaina
#
AAECAf0ECKIC3gXPxwKb0wLD6gKe+AKggAOohwML7Aebwg
LKwwLX4QKW5AK38QLD+AK9+gKkhwOmhwPNiQMA

I've noticed that if you're leaning on Dragon's Fury to win you the game, it's probably because you're preparing to play it on Turn 5. So the inclusion of Elise in the deck really doesn't affect your Furies all that much.

I just took Gluttonous Ooze out for MCT, because in a dozen or so games, it hasn't been useful once. I think people really slept on Daring Fire-Eater. It's probably been this deck's best card so far. Super helpful in the early-game, super helpful in the late-game too, after becoming Frost Lich. I had a paladin plop a Lich King on a board with just a 3/3 Water Elemental, I guess hoping I didn't have a Voodoo Doll (which I didn't), but Zilliax + Daring Fire-Eater is a hell of a lot of reach.
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Hunter right now is why Blizzard should stop giving classes overpowered nonsense to push their agenda for a class to be what it isnt. Surprise, give hunter a broken hero card and a broken spell stone and theyll be late-game. Oooo, so fancy.

I think we can objectively say any game where a hunter plays a fully upgraded spellstone on 5 is not a well played game. Its just some bullshit.

MrSmartGuy posted...

I think people really slept on Daring Fire-Eater. It's probably been this deck's best card so far. Super helpful in the early-game, super helpful in the late-game too, after becoming Frost Lich. I had a paladin plop a Lich King on a board with just a 3/3 Water Elemental, I guess hoping I didn't have a Voodoo Doll (which I didn't), but Zilliax + Daring Fire-Eater is a hell of a lot of reach.

I mean, people evaluated Daring Fire-Eater were thinking about not-odd decks.

Playing it in an odd deck it's just obviously an extremely good 3 mana play. Shadow Bolt is a 3 mana spell that sometimes gets played in control warlock that deals 4 damage to a minion. Daring Fire Eater is deal 4 damage with no target restriction AND it summons a 1/1. Just...good. (3 damage on the other hand is really weak).

ColZach posted...

I think we can objectively say any game where a hunter plays a fully upgraded spellstone on 5 is not a well played game. Its just some bulls***.

I mean, I think there are problems with hunter right now, but spell stone is manageable. Most 4-5 mana board clears in standard right now are 3 damage AoEs. And even if you have something like Mind Control tech, that comes pretty close to equalizing the board (three 3/3s to two 3/3s).

Don't get me wrong, I think the secret package is quite good, I think the spellstone is a great card, but the secret package does have downsides. Like...I tried putting the deathrattle package and the secret package into the same deck once. The deck was...bad. Like...ok, it could dump its hand real fast, but if the opponent had one board clear then you were like...topdeck a single secret, play it and pass turn :/

In order to run the secret package, you either need to be super aggro and embrace running out of cards, or you need to have a super high end with stuff like Lich King and Ysera and Emeriss, using secrets and spellstone mostly as a way to stall till you can start dropping legendaries.
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Or have Deathstalker Rexxar and never care about what you topdeck again.
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Or have Deathstalker Rexxar and never care about what you topdeck again.

This is my biggest complaint honestly.

After my salt fest though I got my shit together and it turns out skill means more than netdecking.

GANON1025 posted...

I'm living that Galvadon life, and I'm loving it.

Decklist? I dont know any of the new cards
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Or have Deathstalker Rexxar and never care about what you topdeck again.

Well...yeah. I found that relying on one single card was pretty...unreliable if I was trying to make an actual control deck though (which is why I have a hunter deck with Ysera+Lich King+Emeriss and a bunch of 7-8 mana plays).

Hunter decks that run out of cards but have 1x Rexxar are kind of just frustrating for everyone, though. Either they draw Rexxar and it's frustrating for the opponent ("most of the cards in your deck cost 2 and you'll never run out of cards in hand now") or they don't draw Rexxar and it's frustrating for the player ("Guess I'll topdeck a single Freezing trap and play it. Exciting turn :/" )
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ColZach posted...

Hunter right now is why Blizzard should stop giving classes overpowered nonsense to push their agenda for a class to be what it isnt. Surprise, give hunter a broken hero card and a broken spell stone and theyll be late-game. Oooo, so fancy.

Well you can blame the community's utter hatred of Face Hunter or even more aggressive midrange versions for that. Ever since ONiK and the Call of the Wild nerf that's been the case. Of course when people hate what the class is and you have to build a new identity, you're gonna have to push cards.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well you can blame the community's utter hatred of Face Hunter or even more aggressive midrange versions for that. Ever since ONiK and the Call of the Wild nerf that's been the case. Of course when people hate what the class is and you have to build a new identity, you're gonna have to push cards.

I think it would be better, though, if there was a toned down version of Rexxar that was a quest, or had an even/odd restriction and start of game trigger, though. The feast or famine between "draw Rexxar" and "don't draw Rexxar" is kind-of extreme for some decks.

davidponte posted...

I've seen more than zero Kingsbanes on ladder today, which is awful.

I just played against Kingsbane rogue with double Cannon Barrage and double Raiding Party. My guess is that people are playing Kingsbane because of Raiding Party. A lot of the creaturess that buff weapons are pirates, and Raiding Party can draw your Kingsbane. I'm not sure about Cannon Barrage in the deck, though.

(I don't think I've actually lost to Kingsbane yet with my variant of Odd Mage, but my Odd Mage is probably more aggro than the default build).
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

ColZach posted...

Hunter right now is why Blizzard should stop giving classes overpowered nonsense to push their agenda for a class to be what it isnt. Surprise, give hunter a broken hero card and a broken spell stone and theyll be late-game. Oooo, so fancy.

Well you can blame the community's utter hatred of Face Hunter or even more aggressive midrange versions for that. Ever since ONiK and the Call of the Wild nerf that's been the case. Of course when people hate what the class is and you have to build a new identity, you're gonna have to push cards.

I'm sure anyone who has read more than a few of my posts in this topic knows how much I agree with this. honestly just bring back a decent aggressive package for hunter and stop trying to make it into what it is now.

a hunter is literally someone who can snipe targets at range for high damaging, shreding through the health of opponents no matter what is standing between them. hunter's weakness should be that if they don't protect their own face they can get killed just as quickly by direct attacks. hunters weakness should not be that if you play a bunch of taunts they for some reason can't reach you because blizzard hasn't printed a face damage card in almost 2 years.
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and then you get absolutely disgusting cards like deathstalker rexxar because it's the only way to make the class work currently. this is a card that 100% of people would be complaining about if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of them simply have fun playing it.

remember the bitching about tuskarr totemic? the variance between a 1/1 and a 3/4 result was just too much. what exactly do you think the variance on deathstalker rexxar's hero power is??? discover adds a bit of consistency but it doesn't feel good when you need a taunt and you're offered no taunt options, but it feels even worse when your opponent needs exactly lifesteal and rush to survive and they make a huge one...
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metroid composite posted...

I think it would be better, though, if there was a toned down version of Rexxar that was a quest, or had an even/odd restriction and start of game trigger, though. The feast or famine between "draw Rexxar" and "don't draw Rexxar" is kind-of extreme for some decks.

True, but the consistency of the quests and start of game triggers are a problem in the opposite way (Kibler talks a lot about this, but look at how strong Quest Rogue and Even/Odd decks have been). Plus those create deck building criteria and it's clear Blizzard wants multiple midrange decks to be viable. Maybe there is room for toning it down and having it still be good like building with smaller beasts or simply discovering a beast.

I'm dont know if there's an easy solution to the type of "value haymakers" they have to keep making to make midrange playable. It feels bad to keep seeing those card types but the game is so tempo based that swing turns are the best thing to do.
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The Kingsbane decks that are essentially Pirate Rogue with Kingsbane thrown in aren't too annoying, but I've faced multiple straight up Kingsbane decks and they are not fun for anyone.
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i love kingsbane. i genuinely think it's one of the best cards they've printed in a very long time. they almost never succeed at making a new type of deck, but they pulled it off there.
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metroid composite posted...

which is why I have a hunter deck with Ysera+Lich King+Emeriss and a bunch of 7-8 mana plays).

I'd be interested in this list if you have time. I've got both Ysera and Emeriss and have never been able to find much use for the latter in particular.
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I like having kingsbane in the meta just because the type of decks I normally play usually obliterate them
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