Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 224: The Congressional Contempt for Political Buggery

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

But Alabama probably blew its load

So they have like 10 days to abort this law or they will have to carry it to term

This is why you are the best at creating topics.
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Its in my chromosomes and all that
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Reminder: While women will go to jail for an abortion, a bus driver who raped a 14-year-old girl got probation in New York State.

And apparently now in Alabama: An 11-year-old girl can be raped by a 45-year-old man, be forced to give birth to his child, then share custody of that child with her rapist.
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Stupid question about the abortion debate in the US: Why do so many people support allowing abortion when the pregnancy is from incest? I get why some people who oppose most abortions could be fine exceptions for the woman's health or rape, but I can't see any logic behind allowing a special exception for incest.
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Xeybozn posted...

Stupid question about the abortion debate in the US: Why do so many people support allowing abortion when the pregnancy is from incest? I get why some people who oppose most abortions could be fine exceptions for the woman's health or rape, but I can't see any logic behind allowing a special exception for incest.

Presumably to protect the child from health problems resulting from incest.
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Xeybozn posted...

Stupid question about the abortion debate in the US: Why do so many people support allowing abortion when the pregnancy is from incest? I get why some people who oppose most abortions could be fine exceptions for the woman's health or rape, but I can't see any logic behind allowing a special exception for incest.

I'm actually glad you brought this up because I was pondering the same thing today. Particularly because "health of the fetus" is usually already a thing that most of these draconian laws will allow exceptions for, so it seems like something that is outside of just that reason.
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So I guess this is probably just my ignorance as I haven't looked it up.

What sort of "requirements" need to be met? Is it like brother/sister level stuff or is it like "oh these guys are third cousins so that's technically incest"? Does some sort of genetic condition need to be known for the fetus?

I'm completely ignorant about this so some of these questions may be stupid so oops if they are.
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Well, in many cases incest and rape are related. So you can think of incest in broad strokes as including violent crime that needs to be accounted for. There's also "health of the fetus" as mentioned though this is a bit of a grey area. Also the typical pro-life stance doesnt usually take into account the life of children after birth so there's that inconsistency. But there are good reasons.

I'm not too familiar with specific exceptions for incest. If you are thinking like an exceptions made specifically for "conensual incest between two adults that produces a healthy zygote in states where incest is legal" then there might be some latent eugenics influence.
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Of course, and I don't mean to minimize that at all, but wouldn't that still just fall under the rape exception?
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, in many cases incest and rape are related.

See, that just makes it even weirder to me. If you have an exception for rape, you don't really need one for incestuous rape unless you want to make sure the rape goes unreported.
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I imagine its the social issues involved, because I thought they released a study that said health risks for first time incest are actually low, its repeated inbreeding that causes the wild shit.
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Xeybozn posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, in many cases incest and rape are related.

See, that just makes it even weirder to me. If you have an exception for rape, you don't really need one for incestuous rape unless you want to make sure the rape goes unreported.

What if it is really hard to prove rape occurred but easy to prove illegal incest occurred? It just covers all bases.

Edit: or obviously even legal incest can be dubious with no proof, I didnt need the qualifier
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Well, there are a lot of gross things that could go into getting an "exception" for rape (e.g. they could require a conviction (which would probably take too long even if it reliably happened) or a police report (which could incentivize false reports)), which could in principle be streamlined for incest cases.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I imagine its the social issues involved, because I thought they released a study that said health risks for first time incest are actually low, its repeated inbreeding that causes the wild shit.

I think this is correct

And I imagine its the same standards for incestuous marriage which is also not allowed, which I believe is third cousins are ok, anything closer is not

That may vary by state
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

TIL 60% of Pakistanis marry their second cousin or closer o_0
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

TIL 60% of Pakistanis marry their second cousin or closer o_0

Worldwide, more than 10% of marriages are between first or second cousins.

This is the even more shocking statistic to me.
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I know they marry their cousins in Shelbyville
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Lots of states let you marry your first cousin in the US. And it isn't just the ones you'd think!

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I imagine its the social issues involved, because I thought they released a study that said health risks for first time incest are actually low, its repeated inbreeding that causes the wild shit.

And yeah this is exactly how it works. From a population genetics standpoint, first cousin incest isnt that bad. But it adds up. Maybe that explains why it's more legal.
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rudyyyyyyy
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https://twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1128735398157594626?s=21

If a 12 year old is raped by her father and the father takes her to get an abortion, the evidence of the crime will be destroyed and he will go on molesting his victim for years. If however the child is born, his crime will be discovered and she will be rescued from the abuse.

Now this is a take
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The Governor of Alabama has signed the abortion bill
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Lots of states let you marry your first cousin in the US. And it isn't just the ones you'd think!

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I imagine its the social issues involved, because I thought they released a study that said health risks for first time incest are actually low, its repeated inbreeding that causes the wild shit.

And yeah this is exactly how it works. From a population genetics standpoint, first cousin incest isnt that bad. But it adds up. Maybe that explains why it's more legal.

Yeah, marrying your first cousin is only slightly worse than marrying someone from the same ethnicity as you, assuming you're both quite homogeneous (think dog breeding issues). But yeah, you and your future family should mix it up every now and then.
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This is so fucked up.

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1129042703340244995?s=21

JFC
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https://twitter.com/jysexton/status/1128637353633951744?s=21

Remember when Donald Trump told Chris Matthews he believed women whod had abortions should be punished and everyone said, come on, its Trump, hes just saying stuff, and then Republican legislatures moved for 99 years in prison?

Believe. Them. When. They. Tell. You.

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It wouldn't be good conservatism if they weren't sticking it to the Jews!

Everything about Republican politicians is revolting.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1129042703340244995?s=21

JFC

Legit surprised they acknowledge the Holocaust as real
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The prison sentence is for the doctors. None of these states have sentencing guidelines for women.

But, hey, I guess disinformation is easier than debate!
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The prison sentence is for the doctors. None of these states have sentencing guidelines for women.

But, hey, I guess disinformation is easier than debate!

Its for anyone who performs an abortion

And who do you think will be performing abortions if doctors cant because of the law
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1129042703340244995?s=21

JFC

Also I like how youre on my ass for allegedly spreading disinformation but no comment on this pile of disinformation from the actual Alabama legislature
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Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1129042703340244995?s=21

JFC

Legit surprised they acknowledge the Holocaust as real

The suffering of minorities is only real when it serves a purpose to them.
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Seriously, the only reason the alt-right isnt the exact same as the establishment right at this point is that the establishment still has too many warmongering financial ties to countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

The prison sentence is for the doctors. None of these states have sentencing guidelines for women.

But, hey, I guess disinformation is easier than debate!

Its for anyone who performs an abortion

And who do you think will be performing abortions if doctors cant because of the law

I mean that's a pretty big stretch to assume that women will be inducing abortions by themselves without the aid of someone else. And if they somehow did, how in the world would they be prosecuted? You're just fearmongering to get people riled up. You're better than this.
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Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1129042703340244995?s=21

JFC

Also I like how youre on my ass for allegedly spreading disinformation but no comment on this pile of disinformation from the actual Alabama legislature

I didn't realize I had to respond to every link posted here.

This also isn't disinformation. It's questionable math and dopey logic, but nothing about that sentiment is untrue if they equate fetal life with human life.
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Seriously though, I am quite pro-fetus murder (since a little act of evil in my own life paved way for my success and happiness), but you're all acting like hysterical mental patients.

The Post fact-checked claims that the Georgia Bill criminalized women who terminated their own pregnancies and found those claims incorrect

The news headlines and social media headlines that speculate about the bills unintended consequences are at the very least not productive. At most, theyre harmful, Planned Parenthoods Staci Fox told The Post on Friday.

This applies to the Alabama bill as well.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I mean that's a pretty big stretch to assume that women will be inducing abortions by themselves without the aid of someone else.

So you dont understand the history of abortion in America, thanks for coming
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

It's questionable math and dopey logic, but nothing about that sentiment is untrue if they equate fetal life with human life.

The fact that you think this time window only applies to fetuses shows you dont even fully understand whats going on
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Also in unrelated news fuck Bill de Blasio
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I mean that's a pretty big stretch to assume that women will be inducing abortions by themselves without the aid of someone else.

So you dont understand the history of abortion in America, thanks for coming

I understand it quite well. The clothes hangering days were back when abortion was illegal in 48 states. I highly doubt this would happen again.

Regardless, my point still stands. No one will be able to prosecute women for terminating their own pregnancy because it would be impossible to prove and any court would dismiss this case if they tried. The intent of the bill is clearly to deter physicians from performing them.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Seriously though, I am quite pro-fetus murder (since a little act of evil in my own life paved way for my success and happiness), but you're all acting like hysterical mental patients.

The Post fact-checked claims that the Georgia Bill criminalized women who terminated their own pregnancies and found those claims incorrect

The news headlines and social media headlines that speculate about the bills unintended consequences are at the very least not productive. At most, theyre harmful, Planned Parenthoods Staci Fox told The Post on Friday.

This applies to the Alabama bill as well.

Source please
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

It's questionable math and dopey logic, but nothing about that sentiment is untrue if they equate fetal life with human life.

The fact that you think this time window only applies to fetuses shows you dont even fully understand whats going on

You're making a very intellectually lazy case for yourself here by just posting "no you're wrong!" without substantiating anything other than nitpicking semantics.

Switch out "fetal" and "fetal/embryonic" and my point still stands.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I mean that's a pretty big stretch to assume that women will be inducing abortions by themselves without the aid of someone else.

So you dont understand the history of abortion in America, thanks for coming

I understand it quite well. The clothes hangering days were back when abortion was illegal in 48 states. I highly doubt this would happen again.

Why? Thats an opinion you need to elaborate on
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Seriously though, I am quite pro-fetus murder (since a little act of evil in my own life paved way for my success and happiness), but you're all acting like hysterical mental patients.

The Post fact-checked claims that the Georgia Bill criminalized women who terminated their own pregnancies and found those claims incorrect

The news headlines and social media headlines that speculate about the bills unintended consequences are at the very least not productive. At most, theyre harmful, Planned Parenthoods Staci Fox told The Post on Friday.

This applies to the Alabama bill as well.

Source please

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/us/alabama-abortion-facts-law-bill.html

Women who have abortions will not be prosecuted under the measure, but, if the courts allow the law to stand, doctors could be charged with a felony and face up to 99 years in prison for performing the procedure.

You are acting like a hysterical loon. Will you admit that you are spreading FAKE NEWS yet?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Regardless, my point still stands. No one will be able to prosecute women for terminating their own pregnancy because it would be impossible to prove and any court would dismiss this case if they tried. The intent of the bill is clearly to deter physicians from performing them.

What is the point of it then if women will still do it?
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I also dont know why you keep trying to shame me into calming down when you know full well that I would fight to the death for abortion rights
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Jakyl25 posted...

What is the point of it then if women will still do it?

To make more women die from abortions, obviously. Pro-life yo!
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Something more productive than yelling at simpletons about it

https://yellowhammerfund.org/

Donate if you can
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Okay, USA Today says

Currently, breaking abortion law in Georgia can be punished with imprisonment "for not less than one nor more than 10 years." The newly signed bill gives no indication as to who would be charged with penalties and what, if any, those penalties would be.

Some have speculated that since the bill recognizes unborn children as "natural persons," that women who choose abortion or miscarry or the medical professionals who help them, would face murder charges, but the term has been used routinely in the previous criminal code, which the measure does not repeal.

Alabama's bill would punish a doctor or abortion provider who performs a procedure with a Class A felony punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison. Attempting to perform an abortion would be a Class C felony, punishable by one to 10 years in prison. The woman seeking an abortion would not face charges under the bill.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/15/alabama-abortion-bill-georgia-abortion-ban-heartbeat-law/3676635002/

This makes it sound like to me that the bill itself is unclear with regards to what happens to a woman who tries to perform her own abortion. Still looking for the actual text of the bill to read myself
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Section 5. No woman upon whom an abortion is performed or attempted to be performed shall be criminally or civilly liable. Furthermore, no physician confirming the serious health risk to the child's mother shall be criminally or civilly liable for those actions.

That is pretty unambiguous. But note that this does not exempt anyone who helps a woman obtain an abortion (like a family member who drives her to the abortion clinic) from accomplice liability.
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That text only exists in the Alabama bill. The Georgia one is more vague and does not have such language. Jakyl's excerpt even states as such.
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