Board 8 > Big Brother/Survivor Summer Topic 2 - Frickin' Khal Drogo

(+) Yeah! (+)

The casuals I know are all cheering for nicole
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Espeon posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

The thing is that Sarah did play really cutthroat. They just cut it all from the edit so we got things like "I'm gonna play like a criminal" without any examples of it.

Well thats the OTHER problem. Fans dont like passive, social gameplay, but they also dont like women (with negative edits), so female winners need to be completely whitewashed and inoffensive, then overpimped and obvious in the edit, to avoid as much backlash as possible.

The craziest thing about that is the last female winner with an indisputable villain edit (Parvati) is so popular that we still have half the young women on every season comparing themselves to her.
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"Go fuck yourself"

I stan my unicorn queen
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So Michie you're saying that if they had never considered taking out Holly you would have cut her at F4 okay.
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Underleveled posted...

So Michie you're saying that if they had never considered taking out Holly you would have cut her at F4 okay.

Could be fake lines fed to him in the Diary Room.
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Ugh why Kat
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Nick such a skeezeball
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Nick is a fucking scumbag
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That was so much more terrible nick
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*points at Michie like Nelson* HAHA!

Oh by the way I've been thinking about this fan favorite thing, and I'm thinking do we wanna just not take the risk that Nicole wins the whole thing and give it to Kat?
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I am looking forward to Bella formally dumping Nick at the finale. I wonder if the show will give her the floor to call him a dirty, cheating scumbag in front of everyone. I hope so. But sadly, it's looking like we're getting another rushed finale, despite them having ample time to have accelerated the remainder of the show.

What's appalling is that we're getting half an episode dedicated to the jury house AND an hour-long filler recap episode. This jury segment is nice - they can ditch the recap to do the final HOH.
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As bad as Michie was earlier in the season, this self-serving, self-righteous, self-stroking shit from the past few weeks has been completely insufferable.
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Underleveled posted...

As bad as Michie was earlier in the season, this self-serving, self-righteous, self-stroking shit from the past few weeks has been completely insufferable.

It really has. Michie sucked the first month, when he was in power. Then he had a month of being outcast and going against a dominant alliance. And then he's been in power for so long that he thinks he's God's gift to Big Brother.
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Ugh seriously why would you bring back that F3, especially JC
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I really REALLY hope that Michie's entitled ass loses to one of the girls. He's been such a shithead, but expects everyone else to treat him with kid gloves at all times.
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Nicole is the only acceptable winner left.

Michie is bottom tier not just for the season but FY (spoilers but not really).

And Holly has just been playing Michie's game for him. She's gotten better lately but then she goes and throws the HoH because he begged her to not because of any sort of deal but for his own benefit.

It's amazing how the roller coaster went for this season. It started out extremely uncomfortable, then got decent to pretty great post-Camp Comeback, then it went to shit after the DE.
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Nicole would be a wonderful winner, and her beating Michie would be like the gender-reversed ending to BB17. We already had to watch awkward, white guy mediocrity take out one of the best players never to win, so it's only fair that awkward, white girl mediocrity (if I'm being honest, Nicole really is Steve levels of gameplay) get to role reverse that shit and take out Jackson in third.

Holly winning would be good, only because Michie is SO shitty, and I want the casuals to lose their minds when neither fan favorite Nicole, nor challenge beast/strategic dominator Michie gets to win.

Michie just sucks. He's an overdog that has been arrogant and entitled almost all season, and managed to blow ALL the good will he earned in that early jury phase of the game. That being said, I STILL appreciate him more than Paul/Tyler as an overbearing force that just won a bunch of shit and controlled the flow of strategy. Paul was a complete asshole that went out of his way to make everyone else act like assholes, so that he didn't have to work on his own jury management. And people still worship the ground Tyler walks on, like he's the most amazing person ever to exist. Michie is an asshole, but he's been an asshole of his own accord and hasn't hidden it. It's a small difference, but Michie > Tyler > Paul. Hoping he loses just like they did.
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As an avid live feed watcher, everything from jury on has been pretty great. Last season it was dead once Brett won the veto to send Scottie home the first time. That was a lot of season to fall asleep to in that regard.

This season has been popping off literally every week and mostly in a good way. Its a shame Jackson won the F4 veto but it happens. BBCAN6 can attest to a very similar endgame (with a good ending).

Im just hoping Nicole can win at least Part 1 or 2 of this final HOH. Otherwise its a bit of a snooze going into the finale.
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Also, that jury segment? Jesus Christ, Nick is just REALLY trying to keep Jackson from claiming the absolute bottom spot on my ranking. He's SO terrible.
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different priorities on what are good qualities, but nick is definitely below jackson for me, jack too
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Nicole winning would be fantastic. I want that narrative so bad. Perfect ending compared to the monstrous train we started with through the first few weeks, culminating in Unde9able stomping and clapping in a pitiful hate orgy in the HOH room.

Any other outcome would be less-than-amusing. Jacksons set himself up well but his martyr approach is disappointing. He doesnt want to own his game, and theres a slight chance itll cost him.

Probably not though. I think Jackson beats Holly in the F2 at the moment. Womp womp.
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bbcan6 was great, I would love to see kaela/paras levels of shouting and passion in the final jury questioning again
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Inviso posted...

I really REALLY hope that Michie's entitled ass loses to one of the girls. He's been such a shithead, but expects everyone else to treat him with kid gloves at all times.

I loved it when Paul lost twice. I too am hoping that happens again, only with Michie giving off holier-than-thou Hantzian answers to questions and alienating just enough jurors to lose 5-4 or 6-3. "We respect your game, but we don't respect YOU. Jerk."

Who wins against whom, you guys think? I really don't know. Would love to see Nicole or Holly beat Michie.

Also, Jackson Michie > Nick. At least Jackson was aware that he was disliked by America and adjusted his behavior accordingly; while he's very unlikable, he at least has complexities that make him relatable to the smallest of extents. Nick is completely unaware at how much of a scumbag he is and is in for quite the rude awakening when he gets out of the house. Nick has zero redeeming qualities, while Michie at least has a few.
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Pretty much exactly how I feel at the moment. Though if Michie is rewarded with a win, I think that MIGHT put him over the edge in the Nick vs. Michie battle.
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Inviso posted...

Michie just sucks. He's an overdog that has been arrogant and entitled almost all season, and managed to blow ALL the good will he earned in that early jury phase of the game. That being said, I STILL appreciate him more than Paul/Tyler as an overbearing force that just won a bunch of shit and controlled the flow of strategy. Paul was a complete asshole that went out of his way to make everyone else act like assholes, so that he didn't have to work on his own jury management. And people still worship the ground Tyler walks on, like he's the most amazing person ever to exist. Michie is an asshole, but he's been an asshole of his own accord and hasn't hidden it. It's a small difference, but Michie > Tyler > Paul. Hoping he loses just like they did.

Michie winning would be less offensive to me than Paul or Tyler would have been because unlike those two there was a stretch of the game where he was a legitimate underdog and did have to work to maintain his spot and status in the game, and every single alliance he was a part of imploded on itself at some point and said implosions provided good television in one way or another, either in the moment or the resulting chaos, while Paul and Tyler cakewalked to the end.

And of course, I may have said this before when I went over my 2016-17 FY rankings, but BB19 Paul may be my most-hated contestant ever among all of the Big Three. If he had won it would be him for sure 100%, but because he lost I'm allowing TAR6 Jonathan to slink in there with that maybe. But if Jonathan gets it it's REALLY really fucking close. Nobody has ever single-handedly ruined a season of RTV as fucking badly as Paul did. Russell Hantz wishes he could ruin a season like that.
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Underleveled posted...

Inviso posted...

Michie just sucks. He's an overdog that has been arrogant and entitled almost all season, and managed to blow ALL the good will he earned in that early jury phase of the game. That being said, I STILL appreciate him more than Paul/Tyler as an overbearing force that just won a bunch of shit and controlled the flow of strategy. Paul was a complete asshole that went out of his way to make everyone else act like assholes, so that he didn't have to work on his own jury management. And people still worship the ground Tyler walks on, like he's the most amazing person ever to exist. Michie is an asshole, but he's been an asshole of his own accord and hasn't hidden it. It's a small difference, but Michie > Tyler > Paul. Hoping he loses just like they did.

Michie winning would be less offensive to me than Paul or Tyler would have been because unlike those two there was a stretch of the game where he was a legitimate underdog and did have to work to maintain his spot and status in the game, and every single alliance he was a part of imploded on itself at some point and said implosions provided good television in one way or another, either in the moment or the resulting chaos, while Paul and Tyler cakewalked to the end.

And of course, I may have said this before when I went over my 2016-17 FY rankings, but BB19 Paul may be my most-hated contestant ever among all of the Big Three. If he had won it would be him for sure 100%, but because he lost I'm allowing TAR6 Jonathan to slink in there with that maybe. But if Jonathan gets it it's REALLY really fucking close. Nobody has ever single-handedly ruined a season of RTV as fucking badly as Paul did. Russell Hantz wishes he could ruin a season like that.

Hmm...

You know, I can't say I disagree with that. If I think VERY hard about it, the only people in Paul's league are Phillip Sheppard in Caramoan (even though he's out at ten, he's just such an unbearably-stifling presence in the season, and he doesn't even get a proper comeuppance, since the Three Amigos allow him to become a martyr for the eventual winner's alliance), and Dave (of Dave & Connor in TAR24, in which he is not only self-righteous and obnoxious for a guy who broke the roadblock split rule, but he won the fucking season.) But both Caramoan and TAR24 seemed destined to fail, regardless of Phillip or Dave. BB19 COULD have been decent, but we'll never know, thanks to Paul.
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Inviso you should take the lead on the FY list from the start this time. And didn't someone else want to get in on it with us? Andy maybe?
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i actually really liked Paul in 18 and thought he deserved to win. 19 was another story, of course. i was also rooting for Tyler last year, though at least KC was likable and played a great game, unlike Nicole in 18.
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Paul in 18 was a mixed bag for me - decent when he was working against the majority, awful when he was in it (except for Paulie's eviction week, in which he was both in the majority AND awesome). And since the balance of power shifted so frequently during that season, it was a week-to-week basis with him as opposed to arcs of the season.
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BB19 is just a full season of Frank's boot week in BB18 (aka the week where Paul gaslit Bridgette and bullied her while she was already all alone.)
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Now I've never watched Big Brother, so I don't know how bad this Paul guy is. But between this topic and the last 2 seasons of TAR, I think I have an idea now. If he could lose to someone like Nicole and turn a bore like Cody into a fan fave just by being the opposition, this guy has to be around Caramoan Phillip tier. If anything, it makes me think you're exaggerating these other two guys because they can't find someone that bad 3 seasons in a row, can they?

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Underleveled posted...

Inviso you should take the lead on the FY list from the start this time. And didn't someone else want to get in on it with us? Andy maybe?

Sure, I'll join you. I can do that at work sometime... well if I still have a job by then. Might have to quit this one given how poorly it's going >_>
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Now I've never watched Big Brother, so I don't know how bad this Paul guy is. But between this topic and the last 2 seasons of TAR, I think I have an idea now. If he could lose to someone like Nicole and turn a bore like Cody into a fan fave just by being the opposition, this guy has to be around Caramoan Phillip tier. If anything, it makes me think you're exaggerating these other two guys because they can't find someone that bad 3 seasons in a row, can they?

Paul had great moments of humor, but was overall was the ringleader of a cliquey mindset that bullied those already on the outs for no reason other than to feel superior. He was also someone who sincerely lacked self-awareness because he insulted jurors' intelligence in goodbye messages (when houseguests leave a video message for the people they're evicting) acting as if he didn't know they were leaving, when his ally consistently bussed him to those jurors so he'd get their votes at the end. Said ally defeated Paul in the F2.

Paul was also a veteran player his second time - the only on his season - and his unnecessary presence single-handedly ruined what could've been an all-time great season. Without him, maybe the chaos of the first three weeks - the beautiful kind - would've subsisted.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Now I've never watched Big Brother, so I don't know how bad this Paul guy is. But between this topic and the last 2 seasons of TAR, I think I have an idea now. If he could lose to someone like Nicole and turn a bore like Cody into a fan fave just by being the opposition, this guy has to be around Caramoan Phillip tier. If anything, it makes me think you're exaggerating these other two guys because they can't find someone that bad 3 seasons in a row, can they?

In terms of being unbearable television and a downright disgusting human being, Tyler and Michie are not even close to Paul's level. But all three got to the end by playing insanely aggressive strategic/competition games and lost (or will lose in Michie's case) by totally ignoring the fact that the jury are human beings with feelings and also compare notes, not unlike a certain best Survivah playah of ahll tahm, and in the same vein, they all have a significant portion of the BB fanbase bitching that they should have won all this time later.

Also Cody is actually really great TV. He may not be a big cartoony character, but he's a borderline sociopath who low-key hates everyone and doesn't put up with bullshit from the other contestants or the producers, which makes him really unique in an era where everyone in all three shows wants to be either a perfect player or a fan favorite. His reaction to winning fan favorite in BB19 was literally, "There must be some mistake." Which I think perfectly sums up how few shits he gives. It's great.
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paul is fine when he's not leading an army to "sick em"
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Team anyone but Nicole over here. Michie and Holly have earned it. Screw an underdog story, give it to those who dominated the majority of the season. They're all there to win the money, those who do the most deserve it.
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You can argue that nicole has done the most of the three. Jackson and Holly have been protected by wins for most of the weeks and they have been sleeping in their HOH room, Nicole actually had to do things and maneuver around the game. (This is a generalization of the season as a whole)
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Okay, just to give a brief recap:

BB18, Paul comes into the house as one of twelve newbies, competing against four veterans. He buddies up with Victor (of Nicole & Victor), and he's a big, vocal proponent of getting rid of the veterans. Fine. Of course, Paul was also THAT GUY for BB18. "THAT GUY" in Big Brother terms is a young white guy who shouts in the diary room and is the go-to character when the producers wants someone's reaction to an event in the house. It doesn't matter if he's smart or good at the game...he gets to narrate the season.

Now, given that his alliance (Victor, Jozea, himself) were anti-veteran when Nicole was the first HoH, he was put on the block several times early on. But Jozea and Victor took the hits in those first two weeks, and then Paul began kissing copious amounts of ass to get in good with the dominant, veteran majority. And eventually he wormed his way in good with Paulie, the brother of Cody from BB16 (who had a connection with Nicole from pre-season). And Paul's thing is...Paul...is an asshole. When Frank and Bridgette (and to a lesser extent Natalie) were on the outs with the majority alliance, he took PLEASURE in shitty on them and making them miserable.

Frank and Bridgette were on the block week five, and Frank was going home. Period. This would leave Bridgette almost completely alone in the house. And Paul spent the back half of that week whispering lies in Bridgette's ears. He convinced her that Frank had campaigned against her and hated her and had done a lot of unspeakable shit behind her back. Keep in mind...Frank was going out, an he would not even be on the jury. There was ZERO reason to do this, other than Paul just wanting to bully and outsider (who is, like Nicole this season, one of the sweetest people I've ever seen on the show.)

Soon after this, it became clear that Paulie was running the show and trying to be the puppetmaster, so Paul got roped into a coalition to take out Paulie, and suddenly he was working for the good guys (Paulie/Nicole/Corey were kinda assholes, running the season up to that point.) And for the rest of the season, Paul was mostly inoffensive, if I'm being completely honest. He and Victor (who won two returnee competitions) stuck together and were a likable bromance, and Paul wound up losing in the finals, in large part because he DID make some wildly sexist comments against Natalie, and shit on Da'Vonne before his turn to the light side by targeting Paulie.

This all leads to BB19. Paul was a decently-entertaining character in BB18, who became less problematic, halfway through the season. But the whole of BB19 was tailored to his success. The show pretended to add a twist to get him into the game (gave the cast of newbies a "choice" that only one person needed to accept to trigger Paul's entrance into the house), and then gave him an ungodly amount of early power (he had the house campaigning to him for safety in the day two boot of the season). And Cody, the one person in the house who wasn't snowed by his returnee status, because an outcast and spent the early part of the season getting shit on for having DARED to target Paul. Paul spent the entire season in power, and every week, he found a new player (or couple) to outcast and treat like pariahs, essentially bullying people all season long, and forcing his allies to join in that bullying. This created a toxic and unpleasant atmosphere in the house, all season long, and it was actively terrible, because he NEVER faced solid opposition at ANY point. Thankfully, he lost in the end, but only after he'd suctioned the life from the season.
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Inviso posted...

Thankfully, he lost in the end, but only after he'd suctioned the life from the season.

To be fair, he lost to a guy who should have been a goat of Phillip Shepard proportions, which is the most appropriate and entertaining way for a guy like that to go out.

Inviso's write-up neglects to mention that Paul had such a godlike control over the house in BB19 that he managed to convince everyone in the house to throw a footrace to a woman with a broken leg (the fact that she was even allowed to participate in that challenge probably hinged on this plot as she had been barred from competing in much less physical challenges prior to that; shame on production for giving into this shit). It was truly one of the most vomit-inducing things to watch.
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Okay, so just to recap:

Week 1 - Paul comes into the house, and fifteen of the sixteen newbies kiss his ass to try and get immunity from the day two eviction. The eight he doesn't choose are forced to compete for safety, resulting in Cameron's elimination from the game. Shortly thereafter, production reveals a twist that America gets to vote to give a secret power to one houseguest (in this case, three weeks of immunity, unknown to the rest of the house.) Naturally, since Paul is the only person the voters know that early in the game (I'm pretty sure the vote was offered shortly after the first episode aired), he wins the power. Oh, and all the powers came with "consequences", and in Paul's case, the consequence was that someone ELSE (randomly selected) had to go on the block at some point in the next three weeks. Cody tries to take a shot at Paul, fails due to the immunity, and he winds up getting blindsided when Paul's majority alliance takes out Jillian over Christmas.

Week 2 - Paul wins HoH, after the competition allows the house majority to just give him a bunch of free passes to try rolling a ball down an obstacle course, and he successfully backdoors Cody out of the game.

Week 3 - During the days before Cody's eviction, Dominique said or did something during one of her fun little "someone is getting evicted, so let's have a talk show" segments, so Paul got mad and demanded she get evicted that week, which happened.

Week 4 - Cody wins the buyback competition to get back into the house, after the house unanimously votes Paul to compete for them to try and keep the winner (unknown to be Cody at the time) out. Jessica wins HoH, despite the whole house egging her and Cody on to try and get them to fall from the endurance competition. But then she allows Ramses to go home. That's on her, really. Jess always seemed desperate to be in the cool kids, and I feel like if Cody hadn't targeted Paul week one, she would've been right up Paul's ass with all the rest.

Week 5 - Paul wins HoH, tries to take out Cody, but Jess got voted the power to cancel an eviction, so she does. But because Paul is physically incapable of dealing with the notion that someone might not do exactly what he wants, he tries to bully Jess and Cody. This is the point where Paul REALLY starts to get awful, rather than just being a Boston Rob figure that has everyone doing his bidding. He starts berating the outsider showmance, and sends his various attack dogs to yell at, and insult them (including belittling Cody's military service), in the hopes of Cody snapping, punching someone, and getting ejected from the house, all so Paul's HoH week isn't wasted.

Week 6 - Paul's ally, Josh, wins HoH, and since Cody won immunity in a temptation competition, Jessica gets nominated and subsequently evicted.

Week 7 - Alex wins HoH, Cody gets evicted. During this time however, Mark and Elena (and to a lesser extent, Kevin), all talk with Cody, rather than outcasting and isolating him completely. Thus, when Cody goes out, Marlena become the new scapegoats, and Paul turns the whole house against them, sending Elena out in the double-eviction.

Week 8 - Production introduces a new "Tree of Temptation" twist, but Mark is the only one who uses it, because Paul threatens everyone else into never touching the tree. Mark's temptation also happens to be immunity for one OTHER person, so naturally Paul gets it, because everyone needs to kiss his ass at all times. Mark is evicted nonetheless.
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Week 9 - At this point, you have Paul, the showmance of Matt/Raven, the friendship pair of Alex/Jason, the friendship pair of Christmas/Josh, and token old guy Kevin. This is the point in the season where, with Cody/Jess and Mark/Elena out, Paul turns EVERYONE against Kevin. So here's this old guy (55, so old by BB standards), and he has the whole house isolating him and treating him like shit, and this is the point when Paul starts puppetmastering everyone against each other. Kevin's name is constantly floated as a pawn, but Paul turns Jalex against Maven, forcing them to get the blood on their hands for his dirty work. And of course, he leaves these pussy-ass goodbye messages about how he had no power and couldn't prevent his allies from getting booted.

Week 10 - As Darkx alluded to, this is the week where Paul single-handedly convinced the entire house to throw the HoH comp (a running race, essentially), in order to gift the win to Christmas (who had a broken leg.) Again, everyone thought Kevin was going home, and everyone was encouraged to treat Kevin like shit, only for Jason to get booted instead (and he left the house furious at Alex, thinking she betrayed him because that was the atmosphere Paul created in the house.) Naturally, Alex won the double eviction HoH and took out Raven next, but still.

Week 11 - Still more Kevin bashing (picture Alecia in Kaoh Rong, how Jason/Scot kept her in the game, only to shit on her constantly), only for Alex to go out after Paul blow smoke up her ass about how their relationship really meant nothing to him. And then FINALLY Kevin went out later in the week after Paul AGAIN convinced people to throw the comps.

Week 12 - Josh wins the final HoH and takes Paul to the end, where Paul gives a rehearsed speech about how awesome he was, yet continues being fake about the game he played (because the only lesson he learned from BB18 was to FAKE being nice, rather than actually...you know...BEING nice). And then Paul loses in a 5-4 vote, to his most vocal and obnoxious attack dog. Poetic justice for fostering a toxic atmosphere in the house and having everyone cater to his every whim all fucking season long.
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...did you just give a recap of your recap?
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...or a longer recap of your shorter recap
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I had to explain in detail >_>
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78027525
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You know...given just how famewhoring and desperate this cast is...I have to wonder how many of the cast would vote Nicole to win, just because they think she's well-liked (aligned with Cliff, plus Christie/Jackson/Analyse were definitively voted as unpopular by America), and they want to look good to America.
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I think best case scenario is a Nicole/Michie F2...

Holly votes Michie (showmance)
Cliff votes Nicole (power duo)
Tommy votes Michie (anti-outsiders)
Christie votes Nicole (despises Michie)
Jess votes Nicole (close friends, dislikes Michie)
Nick votes Michie (assholes of a feather flock together)
Kat votes Nicole (hates Michie)

If either Analyse or Jack is still mad enough at Michie (or desperate enough for a minimal amount of redemption by voting for an outsider to win), Nicole gets it.
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It felt like Julie was kinda doing damage control in her interview with Cliff. Like she was trying to get him to realize it was HIM who was the idiot and not taint the jury against Michie. I imagine she's probably tired of the jury being bitter and voting for the worse game player year after year.
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the game is flawed!
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Six Shooters, Level 6, Amanda, Charla & Mirna, and Survivor: Cambodia suck
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