Board 8 > ProJared - "You've been lied to"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Metal_DK posted...

Casual revolution 2.0 i think is reserved for when deepfakes become overwhelmingly prevalent, which is certaintly soon

I'm going to regret asking this but why are deepfakes the defining factor here?
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Metal_DK posted...

Casual revolution 2.0 i think is reserved for when deepfakes become overwhelmingly prevalent

Why is that?

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The thing with all these sexual assault allegations, is that either people are being trashbags making false allegations to ruin someone's life, or they're being trashbags and being sexual deviants. The biggest problem is in that most cases we won't know which one it is, so how do you as an outside observer react? "boycotting" their content if they were completely innocent is a shit thing to do, but continuing to support them if they were guilty is just as bad.

If nothing else, it goes to show you that in this day and age, you can't trust anyone if you have any measure of fame or success. I don't think I could live that lifestyle, and I would never want to be famous for this reason.
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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

The thing with all these sexual assault allegations, is that either people are being trashbags making false allegations to ruin someone's life, or they're being trashbags and being sexual deviants. The biggest problem is in that most cases we won't know which one it is, so how do you as an outside observer react? "boycotting" their content if they were completely innocent is a shit thing to do, but continuing to support them if they were guilty is just as bad.

When I watch a video on youtube, I simply don't give a fuck about who the content creator is having consenting sexual relationships with.

It's that simple.

Who are you having sex with?
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Like I know this is not an apples to apples comparison but the whole he should have not made the blog because of the potential of underaged persons coming into it and shifting all the responsibility in that aspect to him when it does happen to be very flimsy. Dont get me wrong, I think it was a dumb idea in the context of who he was as an internet figure, and something most people would not do, and something that in his case should have not done. but maybe not something nornal people should not do.

But take say youtube for example or what going on with internet copyright as a whole. The resounding creator sentiment and those concerned with virtual liberties are troubled that the worrying shifting of the blame to the platform (like YouTube, but also facebook, twitter, Instagram, any place where user generated content can be found) instead of bad actors or just those who willingly choose to ignore the "do not pass go, do not collect" cards.

Why are is there such a mindset that whenever any form of decent evidence comes out or personal recounts by persons who were linked to cases like these that might refute claims by the accusers, or even just something that might point to maybe not everything is here, is always met with "its still somehow his fault"? Its fucking sickening.

This is why cancel culture is so bad. Not that they are drawing attention to important issues that need to be addressed, but that the need to make a point... an example... is so great that they are willing to destroy people who might not fit their belief system or they (the ones who "cancel") just dont even bother to check up on... hey are these initial accounts straight type deal.

Look at like ghost busters reboot and when James Rolfe did his non review. He was blasted by people for being sexist etc. And while not exactly "cancel culture" exactly it was very clear that a lot of outlets that reported on the video either didn't watch it or just chose to ignore the actual content. Like the whole thing blew over for him mainly because AVGNs good will is very strong, and that James has always done a lot to try to stay out of drama and tries to keep his work separate from personal life. But for a brief moment in time, people, celebrities, "news sites" were so ready to have a dictionary example of a "problem with today's society" that they targeted one of the, especially among creators themselves, most beloved and respected internet personalities ever.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I'm going to regret asking this but why are deepfakes the defining factor here?

As of now it seems to be the next step to the living a lie culture explosion that 2007 saw. Obviously living a lie has always been a thing, but 07 was when it seemed to exponentially explode due to social media

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KokoroAkechi posted...

But take say youtube for example or what going on with internet copyright as a whole. The resounding creator sentiment and those concerned with virtual liberties are troubled that the worrying shifting of the blame to the platform (like YouTube, but also facebook, twitter, Instagram, any place where user generated content can be found) instead of bad actors or just those who willingly choose to ignore the "do not pass go, do not collect" cards.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow. The specific complaints here are both on the bad actors and the platform. The blame falls on the platform because they fail to uphold their own moderation standards, and in fact stand to benefit from not enforcing them adequately. I also don't see how this relates to cancel culture.

And again I have to point out that while "cancel culture" may exist as a mindset, it doesn't fucking work. You have people yelling that X is cancelled and people like yourself railing against it, but the majority of people DO look at the story and make a decision. In this very topic you can see that. People have looked at the accusers' story and Jarad's and decided that, at the very least, it's weird as hell and the accusers could still be semi-credible. Some will be turned off enough to not watch his content, others won't. This is a normal part of discourse, and it's important to not declare ANY criticism of a creator as "cancelling" them. And ProJared himself isn't even "cancelled." He lost 200k subs over this, leaving him with a mere 800k, and appears to be climbing again. He's probably lost his WotC sponsorship, but he'll be fine.
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Also I'll admit if I'm proven wrong. Can anyone give me a good example of someone who was successfully ruined by quasi-credible accusations? I admit I don't follow much internet drama with ecelebs, but the big names I can think of are all still fine. JonTron is still going strong, even though I personally feel uncomfortable with that whole situation but he's still around, doing charity stuff, and I'm sure his content is still great. Obviously PewDiePie thrives off any negativity he receives. Whenever Dunkey makes a shitty video, which he does occassionally, he gets a lot of criticism while his fans complain he's being "cancelled" but of course that's not what's happening so it never sticks. Who has the internet mob destroyed so far?

Like we couldn't even cancel R. Kelly, the dude had to catch some more cases.
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Dunkey makes shitty videos?
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"Cancel culture" is actually a bad name for what's going on. it's just one that's been recently used to explain the situation. It's more like Outrage or Call-Out culture i'd say is a better name (also names that have been used but not as commonly in recent times). I'd think those who care or follow this would know that the name doesn't exactly fit the situation.

I already said it's not an apples to apples comparison. I'm saying that we give liberties or protections to people or outlets that are doing things that benefit us or that would directly impact us in someway if they were gone or had to go through unneeded steps to protect themselves. I'd say making a website or platform liable for everything a user might post to be unreasonable as long as reasonable signposts are set among other things. You can argue if the signposts that Jared had set were reasonable or enough, but you cant argue that they were not there. The thing is that Jared's situation does not really affect most people. Just him, and his immediate friend base and business partners, etc.

Also, you can't use this website, especially this board, as a sample size of the internet and for those who are actively involved or attempt to be actively involved in situations like these. While, I admit, in recent times I have become rather antagonistic because quite honestly, I find myself often clashing view points with people here when I do post here in ways that I don't find very helpful or beneficial to overall conversation, I do find that in general people on this board are less likely to jump to conclusions and generate their own ideas based on more than the first thing they see. Not ALL members mind you, but I'd say a lot of them who care enough to post.

I'd also want to say that going from 1M to like 800K subs is not all of the story. Yeah he still has a lot of subs, but the whole ordeal basically caused him to stop uploading for months. That's a lot of revenue and good will he has to try to rebuild. He might never get to a point where we can be rely on just being a youtuber ever again. Now, do I think that's going to be the case? Probably not. But, a lot of the youtubers and internet personalities I watch have spoken out about just how much work actually goes into making their videos and how, while they love what they do, just how important it is to have consistent uploads etc. Not saying that some people can't just upload whenever and still do well (look at JonTron) but he's a pretty rare case.

TheRock1525 posted...

Dunkey makes shitty videos?

He got a lot of flak for his really lazy Octopath Traveler video a year ago, which prompted him to do a really lazy response video recently. Kind of a bad look, because I do not watch Dunkey for serious critical analysis but he seems to think he's actually good at it.
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dunkey is actually good at it

it's just up to you if you agree with his tastes or not

he's only bad if you are tired of his schtick
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Metal_DK posted...

Casual revolution 2.0 i think is reserved for when deepfakes become overwhelmingly prevalent, which is certaintly soon

The laziness you use in coming up with new era names is the true sign of the casual revolution 2.0
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What about

Neo-Casual Revolution Gaiden Electronic Bugaloo HD REmastered 4K 2.0 Dolby ATMOS 5.1 surround IMAX experience in VR. Build 0.142.24 (beta)?

Tournament Edition
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KokoroAkechi posted...

"Cancel culture" is actually a bad name for what's going on. it's just one that's been recently used to explain the situation. It's more like Outrage or Call-Out culture i'd say is a better name (also names that have been used but not as commonly in recent times). I'd think those who care or follow this would know that the name doesn't exactly fit the situation.

Well this is just a semantic argument but I think even these terms are similar in that they're trying to downplay what's actually happening. Why shouldn't people be made aware of dumb shit people did or said if it might affect their enjoyment? won't really deny that this board has more of a discussion focus but I dont think the rest of the internet is as far off in terms of reasonableness as you do. There's just...more going on.

Do you think Jarad's outcome is unfair? I think it's pretty reasonable, maybe even more reasonable for him than I would have expected.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

"Cancel culture" is actually a bad name for what's going on. it's just one that's been recently used to explain the situation. It's more like Outrage or Call-Out culture i'd say is a better name (also names that have been used but not as commonly in recent times). I'd think those who care or follow this would know that the name doesn't exactly fit the situation.

The point is that the situation is not new or special at all. It's normal social judgment based on public facts and various forms of evidence. The main difference is the platform, which is digital media and such, so the result is people get blocked or unsubscribed instead of stoned in the streets like before.

The real reason "cancel culture" exists is for offenders to dismiss public criticisms towards them which are entirely valid. Even uninformed criticism is valid for example, and it can be your responsibility to clear up misunderstandings (like Jared is trying to do). None of this is new or necessarily bad at all, but framing it as new makes it easy to dismiss as evil or invasive.

The alternative is chilling criticism and giving free passes to everyone as an attempt to rid your life of any self criticism. You can see that a lot of anti-"cancel culture" people aspire to that goal.

Compare it to something like GG which could be defended as "normal public criticism" as well. Except GG was predicated on serious threats and actual damage done to innocent people by the public. It's far beyond social judgment and that's what made it special and bad. Do you really think that's happening with Jared and Louis CK and whoever is crying about cancel culture now? Definitely not.
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CoolCly posted...

dunkey is actually good at it

it's just up to you if you agree with his tastes or not

he's only bad if you are tired of his schtick

Not really, though he does have some good insights I enjoy from time to time. But the sign of a good critic is that you don't have to agree with their tastes to understand their criticisms. That's kind of the whole point.

Even when I do agree with Dunkey's tastes it's iffy. For example his recent SM64 video was mostly just gushing over the game and not really saying anything that's interesting or non-obvious.

The humor is generally on point though but again that's why I'm even there
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Side note yeah pretending it's a semantic argument is really dumb. It's not that everyone agrees "cancel culture" exists and is bad, just the name is inaccurate. The concept itself is what's flawed.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

He got a lot of flak for his really lazy Octopath Traveler video a year ago

Just watched it again, what's lazy about it?
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It just comes down to do you think that he should be punished because you think that what he did might be morally wrong, or if you think he should not be punished because he might not be legally in the wrong. I mean, that's really not the whole story but those are the "goalposts" that the farsides of the arguments seem to set up and there is much more than 100 yards between them.

I said that the issue is not that they want to draw attention to something dumb or things that need attention, but that their willingness to destroy no matter what, in the face of anything, is what's concerning.

As for the outcome. I don't know yet, it's not over. As for like harassment. Do I think some of it was fair? Yeah, like I think when you put yourself out there even if it was in a private setting, the way he did (by posting compromising photos etc) he sets himself up for hey... maybe if this gets out I'd get made fun of. What kind of bugs me though is that lets say he did this just because he liked to and posted them publicly and didnt do it as an exchange program. Do you think people would commend him for bravery in that situation? Yeah he'd still run into trouble because of it but the change in circumstances would probably paint a different picture.

IMO, things like "cancel culture" is just an aftereffect of the internet basically being a breeding ground for what I'm going to call the subreddit effect. Where it has become so easy just to find a group of people who follow your beliefs or moral code etc that big enough groups can weaponize it.

The internet makes people more accountable... but also makes it easier to sling mud and have it stick.
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The internet is the focal point of the worlds problems today

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TheRock1525 posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

He got a lot of flak for his really lazy Octopath Traveler video a year ago

Just watched it again, what's lazy about it?

Well it's mostly an excuse for him to trash on JRPGs, which is fine and expected from him, but it's mostly just him listing things he thinks are bad or he didnt like and exaggerating the game for comic effect as his usual style. But it's in this weird spot where it isn't insightful enough to be a good review and it isn't humor-focused enough to be a comedy video? It's really confused and low-effort, so as a result people were confused and treated it as both.

People specifically took issue with his portrayal of the battle system - Octopath has very fast-paced combat for a traditional turn-based JRPG but because Dunkey doesn't enjoy turn-based combat (which again is fine), he doesn't go into detail on WHY this particular battle system is bad, and actually misrepresents it as a joke. And that's fine for a short video just to vent but it demonstrates why it's a bad review, and Dunkey's response seemed to indicate he did think of it as a real review video.
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But even that wasnt a real problem - the problem happened when a youtube nobody made a video about it and how in his opinion he didn't think Dunkey was a good reviewer. It was meandering but made an alright case. He then made a follow-up video after Dunkey posted a thread on reddit in response to people saying his video was bad and he should feel bad.

Dunkey found this a year later and put it in his game critics 2 video and basically misrepresented his argument as a joke so he could complain, while of course making sure to specifically say not to harass the dude. Internet fans are terrible though and ignored that, spamming the dude's page with memes which maybe isn't harassment but is still annoying. And if course when people pointed out (with various degrees of anger) that hey, Dunkey should probably know better than that and maybe doesn't respond to criticism very well, the fans just complained that people were trying to "cancel" him.
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That is way too many words on a dunkey video.
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TheRock1525 posted...

That is way too many words on a dunkey video.

Well tl;dr the issue isn't even the video, it's that even MILD criticism and discussion led to "why are people CANCELLING Dunkey?"

And yes part of the anti-outrage brigade's strategy was "it's just a joke why does anyone care?"
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Dunkey got temp-banned from League of Legends for being an asshole and proceeded to make a video about how the game sucked and it was the game's fault that he was being toxic.

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Yeah and I think everyone knows Dunkey is an asshole and may not care. I disagree with how he handled this and still watch him. Maybe you dont even care that much. Whatever.

My main point that I was making before asked about the specific content of the "controversial" Dunkey video was that what was labeled as "cancel" or "call-out" or "outrage" culture was really just people having a normal discussion on the internet.
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Philly D's coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Vu6AmeKr4" data-time="

Doesn't add too much but includes Heidi's response.
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wg64Z posted...

Philly D's coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Vu6AmeKr4" data-time="

Doesn't add too much but includes Heidi's response.

You're obsessed with this aren't you

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Also I'll admit if I'm proven wrong. Can anyone give me a good example of someone who was successfully ruined by quasi-credible accusations? I admit I don't follow much internet drama with ecelebs, but the big names I can think of are all still fine. JonTron is still going strong, even though I personally feel uncomfortable with that whole situation but he's still around, doing charity stuff, and I'm sure his content is still great. Obviously PewDiePie thrives off any negativity he receives. Whenever Dunkey makes a shitty video, which he does occassionally, he gets a lot of criticism while his fans complain he's being "cancelled" but of course that's not what's happening so it never sticks. Who has the internet mob destroyed so far?

Like we couldn't even cancel R. Kelly, the dude had to catch some more cases.

Channel Awesome (deservedly) lost all their good content creators and is a relic now. Though even with that I think Nostalgia Critic is still going, somehow.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

got caught by his wife

my understanding was she knew about it
but he was also boinking a friend's exwife
but she knew about that too maybe?
IDK

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wg64Z posted...

Philly D's coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Vu6AmeKr4" data-time="

Doesn't add too much but includes Heidi's response.

The famed youtuber, Dave Chappelle
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Jakyl25 posted...

Channel Awesome (deservedly) lost all their good content creators and is a relic now. Though even with that I think Nostalgia Critic is still going, somehow.

I dont know who this is, but spill the tea sis

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cant wait to hear what Philly D said about ProJared! Thats two proper nouns that I definitely understand the significance of.

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If youve never even heard of The Nostalgia Critic, the whole endeavor that was Channel Awesome is going to take a long time to explain

heres the document of ex-creators from the channel explaining their grievances

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/mobilebasic#


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Ironically, arguably the best content creator on the network (Larry bundy jr) won the "Channel Awesome hunger games". As a kind of joke. Also as like a thing where no one even knew he was part of the channel.

Also, nostalgia critic was always the driving force behind Channel Awesome. It's been enough of an internet brand to stand on it's own for quite some time.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Dude was married, consented to letting fans send him nudes when they requested (assuming this is even true, but I'll give Jared the benefit of the doubt here), got caught by his wife, and now he's playing the victim?

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that she initially said she was cool with him getting nudes. Then they broke up, and she retroactively decided she wasn't cool with him getting nudes any more.

But also what Tombolo said probably?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Channel Awesome (deservedly) lost all their good content creators and is a relic now. Though even with that I think Nostalgia Critic is still going, somehow.

Oh, true! I haven't thought about that dude except tangentially in relation to the creators that walked out on him. I guess I viewed it more as an internal matter at the time but the audience had the same kind of reaction.

Digging around he probably lost a lot of money from that (I can't find his Patreon anymore) but the channel sub numbers haven't changed much.
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Jakyl25 posted...

If youve never even heard of The Nostalgia Critic, the whole endeavor that was Channel Awesome is going to take a long time to explain

heres the document of ex-creators from the channel explaining their grievances

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/mobilebasic#

goodness that is 70+pages

But the vibe I get is that Nostalgia Critic ran a thing and didn't run it well? He used to come in to my restaurant and seemed like a nice dude :\

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I like Channel Awesome, mostly because of Tamara. Nostalgia Critic is ok sometimes.

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Tom Bombadil posted...

goodness that is 70+pages

But the vibe I get is that Nostalgia Critic ran a thing and didn't run it well? He used to come in to my restaurant and seemed like a nice dude :\

Hes by no means the worst part. He was just ignorant of how youre supposed to manage people when you bring them all together to film professional movies, and wasnt empathetic to how his business decisions as the face of the site affected other people on it.

The people above him behind the scenes, his brother and a couple other guys, are the real villains here.

well, and also former creator JewWario, but hes dead now

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How much of those TGWTG complaints do we even take seriously, though? I remember when Linkara tried chiming in with MarzGurls accusations of sexism, and all he had to add were a bunch of petty complaints about stuff nobody cares about, like I got a sandwich 5 minutes later than I was promised during a collab.
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