Board 8 > Survivor: Island of the Idols Discussion Topic #3: We are thankful for Noura

(+) Yeah! (+)

I also meant to include Dalton Ross in that last statement since he announced the tape-delay.

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and stepping back myself and reflecting, dean's a fun guy and I enjoyed him this season. He's definitely not as bad as Tommy.

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I also just saw the episode, had the same "weird commercial break/there's no way there's a tied vote?" reaction, and then when we learned why...

I remember after the merge episode saying, after that cluster, the Feely Dan saga would never be brought up again. And I guess I was wrong! Though it was technically never brought up or referenced at all until that moment.

First thing I thought of was the reward last episode, went back to it to doublecheck and sure enough, Dan was sitting beside Tommy's girlfriend, Rachel, around that table. Now that was Day 31 and his ouster only happened Day 36 so maybe not; but if it wasn't a contestant then who else? I imagine they don't get too close to the camera folks...

Well now that Elaine's out there goes the finale. Time to dream about two could-have-been scenarios:

-Final 6 with Elaine and without Dan, Dean plays his "legacy advantage" and gets embarrassingly voted out, Elaine/Lauren/Noura final 3, Elaine/Lauren win

or

-Noura voted out this ep so final 5 of Tommy, Janet, Dean, Lauren and Elaine. Dean wants to "resume build" and rallies for Janet votes & uses his idol nullifier on her. Elaine wins F4 immunity and takes Lauren, Dean > Tommy in fire, fuck Dean's "resume", Elaine/Lauren win

Ah, what could have been...

MartinFF7 posted...

but if it wasn't a contestant then who else? I imagine they don't get too close to the camera folks...

From what I saw on twitter, it sounds like it happened on the way back from an immunity challenge while getting into the boat.

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Ah I didn't even think to look on there, allegedly a hand on the leg of a producer.

https://people.com/tv/why-survivor-contestant-dan-spilo-removed-from-game/

So... South Pacific and RI-style season with Dan Foley and Dan Spilo as returning contestants when?

MartinFF7 posted...

So... South Pacific and RI-style season with Dan Foley and Dan Spilo as returning contestants when?

Well I know you're being facetious but I'm pretty sure that this ejection disqualifies Dan Spilo from ever playing again.

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MartinFF7 posted...

So... South Pacific and RI-style season with Dan Foley and Dan Spilo as returning contestants when?

How do you delete someone else's post?
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lol

what about Survivor: Island of the Dans then

except no contestants ever visit them and production abandons them entirely

Ranking the Dans of Survivor:

Lembo > Kay > Barry > Rengering > Brown (GC) > DaSilva (Wardog) > Lue > Foley > Spilo

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Do this last episode officials means Richard Hatch will never play on Survivor again now?

The all time 5 most vial players:

1. Richard Hatch - rubbed bare genitals against unwilling female.
2. Ted Rogers Jr - rubbed clothed genitals against unwilling female.
3. Dan Spilo - rubbed non-genital skin against unwilling female. Stopped by production before it escalated.
4. Rob Zbacnik - rubbed non-genital skin against unwilling male in attempt to murder. Stopped by production before it escalated.
5. Jenna Morasca & Heidi Strobel - exposed bare genitals to the eyes of unwilling male.

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Troyzan posted...

Do this last episode officials means Richard Hatch will never play on Survivor again now?

I think the fact that he wasn't cast on the all-winner season after all the trouble they went through to try to get him approved to leave the country for HvV and Redemption Island made it seem pretty official.

Troyzan posted...

Rob Zbacnik - rubbed non-genital skin against unwilling male in attempt to murder.

Okay, you're being just amusing enough to not put on ignore.

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2 b's, guys, 2 b's.
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Yes; the men in the Amazon were very unwilling lol
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Butch was!
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Yes; the men in the Amazon were very unwilling lol

https://i.imgur.com/lJM6Mxp.png

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Every time I see Dan Lembo's name mentioned I only think of that big fucking chair and that alone is worth ranking him over every other Dan.

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Dan Lembo is the only really GOOD Survivor Dan.

Dan Kay (RIP) and Dan Barry are pleasant, and Dan Rengering/GC have decent stories, but all the others suck.

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Centurion posted...

Every time I see Dan Lembo's name mentioned I only think of that big fucking chair and that alone is worth ranking him over every other Dan.

same, except I also think of his exit interview with rhap

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CoolCly posted...

Long post.

So I think this is a good season, and that Survivor Production has done a good job trying to navigate a really difficult and real issue.

I agree that it's not easy for production to make a decision concerning Dan and how to act on it. As awful as it sounds, I would absolutely never put it past a contestant with particularly broken morals to lie about harassment when there's precedent that it can lead to a cumbersome competitor being eliminated. People do it outside the show and people could do it for a prize. Production had to take this and legal considerations in mind before performing any actions, and they were evidently not prepared. There's a lot of talk about CBS being sued over this as well, and it's something they had to discuss. The decision couldn't be immediate, and it's a first. They are so very lucky the Sue Hawk situation happened when it did, or that the claims against Bob from Gabon could be so easily swept under the rug, just as an example. But this is a different time and women are not afraid to speak up, and I seriously understand why this is a very complicated issue from a production standpoint. I do.

But... as a viewer of a show, should I care about the behind the scenes difficulties? If I hear a certain product has had a difficult development period, do I care? Should I look at something with different lens because of its history and the context of its production? Maybe you care, but I just don't care. All I saw was this stank-ass feely older guy existing in a season while we watched a woman break down on camera for it, and then surviving for several episodes and being a fun-suck every minute of screentime he got and becoming one of the least likable people on the show's history. Don't get me wrong either, as dark/controversial as the merge episode was, I posted about it here before and I found it absolutely fascinating as a representation of something that is really important. Survivor had never been such a strong microcosm of society as it was in that double episode following the aftermath of Kellee's claims. I found it great television, uncomfortable as the topic is. Some people had a less positive overview and that's totally valid, too. Not everyone wants to tune into Survivor to watch these things.

My biggest personal gripe is not this, however. I feel like the last few episodes have just been really disappointing. I actually love Dean as a character; he's layered enough as a player and entertaining enough as a personality that I can get behind him.

My personal issues (especially with the merge, since I do like the pre-merge) are:
a. The season's theme, on principle, is a bad idea that takes up too much time that could be devoted to literally anything else. The "lessons" have for the most part being hollow, and the "challenges" pretty silly. We've been lucky that Rob/Sandra have tried their best, but they are still just pointlessly long scenes for characters to get advantages.
b. Tommy's by-the-books winner's edit has been irritating; whether he wins or not is irrevelant, really. He's one of the most boring, one dimensional major characters I've ever seen on this show, which was fine pre-merge when he wasn't getting as much attention, but as we approached the finale, it's gotten worse and more blatant. As a viewer, it's always a bit frustrating to watch everyone throw their games for one player, and when that player isn't even good, then oof.
c. Rather unexciting gameplay that tends to benefit a stale power alliance. I feel like Karishma did her best to keep it more interesting with her idol play and booting Missy, but even Karishma ended up just being cut off unceremoniously. The most exciting move of the game was Kellee taking out Jack and saving Dean, but it is hurt in hindsight by Kellee following him out the door. Karishma's idol play could have been much more entertaining if Elizabeth's boot hadn't been so telegraphed.
d. Very bland solo immunity challenges. This is common in Survivor these days with the creativity level being pretty low, but I can only watch so many endurance challenges with Jeff's generic filler voiceover.
e. Yeah, Dan sucks, and his presence on the show was actively detrimental to it. Remember how they just stashed Will away in World's Apart once he became completely unlikable? I honestly would've preferred this. He contributed nothing that wasn't the equivalent to the buzzing of a fly.
f. Lauren's inconsistent edit leading up to her being built as the biggest threat. She's quickly falling into production's "will she ever flip on the guy who will beat her at the end?" go-to narrative which is never a pleasant story to watch unfold when the answer is no. Janet was similarly irrelevant before merge, although she would pop up from time to time, but it makes her difficult to see as a contender unless she's just being underedited like other female winners before her. I expect production wouldn't really know how to edit her as a winner anyway, since she's very little of a strategybot and very much someone who plays by her instincts (see: Kelly Wiglesworth in Cambodia), so I'm more forgiving here.
g. I love Noura and Dean as characters, but they're just there to provide some levity and are not very serious contenders, which is disappointing heading into a five-person finale. Dean's delusion can easily rub others off and I totally get it as well. Noura's constant need to suck up to the power alliances by fessing up by throwing her allies under the bus can be frustrating too.
h. There's way too many idols and advantages. Production has to stop hiding idols in plain sight the second they're played at tribal. I appreciate that idol hunt scenes have been cut down in length since I always found them really boring, especially since we used to get a main narrator that makes it clear who will find the idol way ahead of time, but in their place they've been replaced by ubiquitous, constant idol find scenes. Stop. I don't want a second coming of Ben, even if Ben is replaced by someone like Janet who doesn't tend to benefit from idols. An idol used to be so much more important than it is now. People are much less likely to want to save their idols for key moments, and it undermines the importance of being capable of reading the room.
i. Also, why is Jack a juror, again? lol
j. The season having such a strong pro-women narrative pre-merge that set certain expectations, just to then become increasingly clear that it's more about covering production's ass concerning Dan.
k. Probably many more reasons; these are just what came to mind first and not some in-depth analysis.

My biggest positive takeaway from this season will be the pre-merge edit, because I think they got a lot o

Surskit posted...

i. Also, why is Jack a juror, again? lol

I sort of addressed this in a post that I think got lost among the sea of reactions to the ejection, but I'm guessing they were anticipating the possibility of Dan getting ejected.

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People would've complained about how Survivor handled this regardless of what they did. If they removed Dan, "they should've done it on day one!!!" (when that makes no sense) or "that's not fair, let the players decide like always!" They did a fine job of navigating something complex, especially given their lack of experience in doing so. The biggest whiners are like the heterophobic idiots who blasted Sarah Lacina for not understanding "THAT" when it happened... like she's supposed to be psychic or something? Uh, hello. She reacted like a normal person. Survivor had to deal with this in a way that made sense for the game and they're not one to interfere as much as Grodner. And for that, I respect them. They did fine.

Also, Feely Dan's edit sorta tapered downward, with them only showing relevant content, after the merge episode. I preferred this to them constantly dragging it back into the show, which some of the serial whiners wanted them to do. What is with those people? They want this to taint Survivor even more than it already has? They'd probably have complained about it being brought up again, too.

ranking teh Dans

1. Dan Lembo - actually an interesting and complex guy. Also had a memorable exit interview that I plan on listening to again after my next Nicaragua rewatch... which needs to happen soon.
2. Dan Rengering - a compelling character, with having lost all that weight and now being a "stud" while still acting like a spoiled brat. Not the most likable guy but certainly entertaining.
3. Dan Kay, Jr. - unquestionably the most likable Dan... but not great TV. Still, RIP.
4. Dan "The Wardog" DeSilva - Very entertaining and a unique type of strategic thinker... but the guy's ego is really off-putting much of the time and this was at times visible in the edit of his season. Still expect we might be seeing him back sometime.
5. Dan Barry - "Psst... I'm an astronaut."
6. Dan Lue - Early out, but somehow more likable than... certain others.
7. Danny "GC" Brown - A twit who should never have been out there. He was not mature enough nor was he equipped to handle it all. Even so, he was one of the key cogs in the beautiful trainwreck that was Gabon, so I'll give him that.
8. Dan Foley - He's not a horrible person so much as he is a socially clueless dumbass who was trying to be funny, but only ended up being offensive. Guy's the least mature person over 45 the show's ever had.
9. Feely Dan Spilo - Fuck this guy.

Surskit posted...

when that player isn't even good, then oof.

Tommy IS good, though. Being a good Survivor player is wholly separate from being good TV. Tommy is a good Survivor player, but he's probably the most boring contestant the show's ever had. And from what I've seen on social media... it's the edit's fault. Tommy is a LOT more likable than the edit is letting on, and he actually has a pretty good sense of humor. I don't know why we're not seeing it, unless that humor doesn't translate well to confessionals or something.
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Underleveled posted...

I sort of addressed this in a post that I think got lost among the sea of reactions to the ejection, but I'm guessing they were anticipating the possibility of Dan getting ejected.

It's a good point. Worst case scenario, he isn't ejected and they have an 11 person jury. Just weird, when's the last season they had a pre-merge juror (other than the obvious EoE exception)? Heroes vs Villains?

In any case, gotta avoid the dreaded 3 finalist / 9 jury member finale!

I liked that they tried giving Tommy some moments in the last episode. Particularly the "jealous girlfriend" line, and him calling Dean a goat, which is hilarious when you consider how Dean views himself in the game.

I believe noted Survivor afficionade Nietzsche once said, "And if you gaze long into the goat army, the goat army also gazes into you."

MartinFF7 posted...

when's the last season they had a pre-merge juror (other than the obvious EoE exception)? Heroes vs Villains?

Yes, that was the most recent one. Before that, Cook Islands, Fiji, and Gabon did it, although I still say they intervened and delayed Gabon's merge. Those final two challenges SCREAM post-merge (the immunity was totally meant to be an individual challenge, and the golf reward challenge was obviously designed to be 3v3v3).

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The other workaround is bringing back the "reward-challenge-to-eliminate-jury-member" to fix a bad jury count.

Which also reminds me of two questions I meant to ask (completely unrelated):

(1) After the Nicaragua shitshow, did they make it a rule that any quitters would not be on the jury, or is that just the ideal scenario I imagined?

(2) Does anyone else skip the 10 or so "flash forward" seconds at the beginning of the episode? I hate when they introduced that, like why even do that, damn it...

MartinFF7 posted...

After the Nicaragua shitshow, did they make it a rule that any quitters would not be on the jury, or is that just the ideal scenario I imagined?

Supposedly it's at the discretion of the producers, which pretty much means no.

The only time since then we've had a post-merge quit was in San Juan del Sur, and it was immediately after the merge. Jeff confirmed in an interview that if they had gone to tribal council that night, the person voted off wouldn't have been on the jury, so they didn't need to invoke this clause.

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I think Jack is a juror cause they really like the peanut gallery reactions and a larger jury adds to it

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It was possible that when they all go to IoI that they would've played for a juror removal advantage to get it down to 10. Though with Dan gone that's not going to happen now.

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They still could, they have an unused final 6 immunity challenge they could use for something else

probably will just be an advantage for the final immunity or something now

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Who was that guy in the early seasons who got voted out real quick. He was a weirdo, kinda like if THE board 8er got on survivor. He knew he was going home after the contest and frowned and a girl smiled at him and he thought he had a chance with her.

Anyone remember who that was?

Billy Garcia from Cook Islands.

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BlueCrystalTear posted...

Tommy IS good, though.

I meant as a character, should have clarified.

Also, if calling Lauren a jealous girlfriend is "a moment" then you know the bar is way, way low, lmao.

I also don't think they ascended Jack into jury for the sake of a potential quit/medevac/removal, that's just weird. It rubs me the wrong way to put someone who hasn't met everyone in the game in the jury, tho.

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At least Jack met everyone left in the finale. So we aren't getting another Reem situation.

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Omniscientless posted...

Also, if calling Lauren a jealous girlfriend is "a moment" then you know the bar is way, way low, lmao.

I meant it was a funny bit of personality, at least something from a guy we've gotten pretty much nothing from. Yeah I'm starving here for any character moments!!

GTM posted...

they have an unused final 6 immunity challenge they could use for something else

I'm under the impression that the F6 immunity challenge was played and will never be seen. Speaking of which...

Mewtwo59 posted...

They probably had the foresight to give Dean the necklace before the Final 5 challenge just so we aren't confused that someone else had it.

With all the stuff they've been trimming down over the past few seasons, they probably just won't show the necklace being handed back and it will go largely unnoticed except for the most eagle-eyed fans.

By the way, the last person left in the game who hasn't been to IoI is Tommy. Should be interesting to see his reaction among four people that lied about it the whole time.

And my ranking of the cast, which I feel is pretty much set in stone and I don't see how the finale could change much except for maybe Lauren up or down a few spots.

1. Noura

2. Jamal

3. Elaine
4. Karishma
5. Kellee
6. Janet
7. Vince

8. Jack
9. Chelsea
10. Jason

11. Lauren

12. Ronnie
13. Molly
14. Tom

15. Tommy
16. Aaron
17. Missy
18. Elizabeth

19. Dean

20. Dan

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I can agree with darkx's rankings. Just move Chelsea above Jack, put Tommy in his own tier (but keep his position the same) since he's not a bad person at all like those other three, and move Dean above Tommy because even though he's a complete dumbass who has 0% chance to win, Dean is at least entertaining, while Tommy is not. I don't hate Tommy; I simply have no strong feelings toward him. That is pretty unforgivable for the winner of the season, and that in turn makes me have strong feelings toward his editorial deprivation. (If Tommy somehow doesn't win, then maybe things will be different, but I don't expect that...)

This was a bad season and Survivor is going to struggle to wash themselves of this blight. 2019 is the worst year for Survivor ever - yes, it's somehow worse than 2011, which had my least favorite season ever (South Pacific) and Redemption Island. Simply put, EOE and IOI showcase two separate things that Survivor should NOT be. One was completely ruined by a twist that overshadowed the game and its contestants. The other was completely ruined by a predator and a toxic fandom that would find fault with the show's handling of that situation regardless.

All of this is making me want to become a casual. I've already decided to forgo being an RHAP patron any longer, as I am getting no value out of that money (especially since Rob refuses to do a Live KIA in the Midwest). Perhaps I will treat S40 as the coda like many are and then figure out what the hell I'm going to do next.

Ah well, at least we have Survivor AU All-Stars and Survivor SA8 to look forward to in 2020.
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Why the f*** do you people like Noura so much

goatknight posted...

Why the f*** do you people like Noura so much

She's basically a mix between Debbie and Angelina, two other characters we loved, so this shouldn't come as any surprise.

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I also like Darkx rankings, with a few exceptions. I liked Aaron, and Tommy. I would put them up with Lauren. I would also raise Elaine up with Jamal. Also, Karishma drove me nuts so I would lower her too. Maybe I'm not as close as I thought because I found Dean entertaining idiot like a dime store Keith Nale.

The Dan situation ruined this season. I thought it was gonna be with DvG with the premerge, I enjoyed it that much and it has had a colossal collapse and like I even like the episode after the thing BUT then they did that twist that split tribe into 2 that forced a pagonging. And went from a top half season to a bottom half for me, and a bottom 3 for most people.
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so what are we expecting at the reunion and how is it going to be framed? will dan be mentioned by name? will they mention the blowback on how production handled it?

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I don't think we have much to expect. With Dan not present, I'm not sure if they'll address it at all.

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I expect half the reunion to be spent on S40 hype, at least.

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Maybe there will be a small tribute to Rudy

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Just watched all the winner reactions (their immediate reaction to their victory) and ranked them.

Vecepia
Fabio
Bob
Chris D
Todd
Parvati
Mike
JT
Tina
Michele
Richard
Natalie W
Adam
Amber
Danni
Sophie
Sandra (HvV)
Ethan
Tyson
Earl
Sandra (PI)
Tom
Yul
Kim
Jeremy
Denise
Ben
Wendell
Brian
Nick
Jenna
Chris U
Tony
Aras
Natalie A
Cochran
Sarah
Rob

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Jenna above Rudy? Seriously?

Is actually right. This is my Borneo ranking from my rewatch almost two years ago:

Jenna is actually amazing in Borneo.

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Russell is currently claiming that Brandon was officially ejected from Caramoan and that the oral vote was staged for the camera. Corinne is backing him up.

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Underleveled posted...

Russell is currently claiming that Brandon was officially ejected from Caramoan and that the oral vote was staged for the camera. Corinne is backing him up.

I mean, I thought this was known.

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"Whoa whoa whoa. Dan isn't the first scumbag to get ejected. Remember US?!?!?!?"

A very Hantz thing to do.

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Poor dan, didn't get a probst massage with his ejection

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CoolCly posted...

"Whoa whoa whoa. Dan isn't the first scumbag to get ejected. Remember US?!?!?!?"

A very Hantz thing to do.

Why would you want your name attached to this lol

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Dan finally dropped an "apology" it is half assed: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/survivors-dan-spilo-breaks-silence-192502187.html

But here is something important, CBS talks about their mistakes and improvement plan from season 40, season 41 and beyond...

https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/17/survivor-inappropriate-touching-cbs-statement/
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