Poll of the Day > Illegals will get a hand out in Cali

(+) Yeah! (+)

*smh*

Damn Gavin, you were doing so well up until now

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oh no not illegals

MICHALECOLE posted...

oh no not illegals

you already know how this topic will go lol

gonna stay safe in my Animal Crossing escapism thread from now on

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this topic is oof city

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So youd rather they were out and working?

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Mead posted...

So youd rather they were out and working?

That's about my attitude. The point of the stimulus is to ensure that people don't starve to death (or, more realistically, resort to stealing to survive) while working is ill-advised. Working isn't any less ill-advised nor is starvation without income any less imminent for illegals. Keep them home and not looting grocery stores, same as is being done with everyone else in the state.

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This is exactly why we're going to need a very strong border and very strong immigration enforcement before we even think about implementing any sort of UBI...unless we're prepared to write a blank check to anyone that can set foot on American soil.

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The circumstances are a little different this time

You either want the virus to spread or you don't.

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They are not really illegal in Ca either, it's kinda like pot in some states, CA has basically opened it's arms to "illegals".

They hire them as nannies, to clean their homes, they go to veggie/fruit stands where even the person at the register barely speaks English.

Do I agree with that? No, I think that if your going to hire them etc, they should have an avenue to be a legal citizen and since many drive, they should need to get a license and insurance etc like everyone else.

That isn't the case though, and you have to live with reality. They are not really illegal if they have been invited in.

When I taught at El Roble, half of the parents did not speak any English. We had to have their own kids translate for us (I did remember/pick back up some spanish over time at least, but have forgotten most of it again).

As far as giving money right now, shrug, I don't know honestly it seems like buisiness as normal here in WA, people are out doing normal things and ignoring the SAH order all together. I don't think it's as lax in CA (heard you have to wear a mask etc), but if it's anything like here, everyone should just go back to work.

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Pretend to be illegal and collect extra money. I legit can't think of a way they'd be able to stop you. Hell I'm only a state away, I might drive over and collect.

EDIT: Ok Census information might be a good way to filter it since even illegals can fill it out but that's supposed to be completely anonymous, not everyone has done it, and those that have probably tossed their Census ID which would be the only "good" way of prevent fraud.

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Veedrock- posted...

Pretend to be illegal and collect extra money. I legit can't think of a way they'd be able to stop you. Hell I'm only a state away, I might drive over and collect.

I mean honestly how would they stop someone from collecting multiple times?

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How will they?
Being in a college town, there are lots of students on visas and what not and I figured they probably won't get this despite how much they actually contributed to this country. So, yeah, if they can still benefit from this, please let me know so I can share it.

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WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is exactly why we're going to need a very strong border and very strong immigration enforcement before we even think about implementing any sort of UBI...unless we're prepared to write a blank check to anyone that can set foot on American soil.

why not just give UBI to only US citizens?

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Mead posted...

why not just give UBI to only US citizens?

The best idea I've heard for doing it is as a reverse income tax of sorts. You file your taxes, and if your income at that point is below a certain threshold, you get topped up to that threshold. The convenient side effect of that is that you're only giving it to people who file their taxes, which means any illegals that do take advantage of it are ones that are at least trying to pay taxes and therefore basically the same as actual citizens. The downside is that it makes working under the table (as many illegals do) and other forms of tax evasion become significantly more damaging and would need to be cracked down on.

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Mead posted...

why not just give UBI to only US citizens?

Honestly I don't know if UBI is a good idea yet, what I would like to see is something that balances the rediculous amount of rent most have to pay.

Basically it's UBI but in the form of rent relief and food stamps only (not directly cash).

And it's based on both the rent you pay (which needs to be reported) and the income you make.

You still qualify for UBI as long as your rent is over 30% of your income per month basically.

Meanwhile food stamps become universal for everyone at 50$ a week per person.

This would not be enough to make anyone happy/live comfortably, but it would keep everyone off the streets and fed, drastically reduce crime, but still give incentive for everyone to work if they can.

As time goes on and less jobs are available it could be expanded on.

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Mead posted...

why not just give UBI to only US citizens?

Why not just give this stimulus check to only US citizens? If we can't get thru a month or several of this without cutting illegals a check too, how far do you think a full-on UBI is going to pan out before that also gets lumped in?

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Mead posted...

why not just give UBI to only US citizens?

Because you can be a non-citizen and pay taxes!
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number

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illegal immigrants are people too

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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Why not just give this stimulus check to only US citizens? If we can't get thru a month or several of this without cutting illegals a check too, how far do you think a full-on UBI is going to pan out before that also gets lumped in?

Even giving a stimulus check to illegals is going to be very hard since there is no way to identify them.

There would be no way to give UBI to them, but...that doesn't mean UBI could go to citizens that use it to help support illegals, which is what will probably end up happening.

Also the illegals are mainly accepted so much (At least in CA) because they are VERY useful doing jobs that Americans don't want to, or won't do. Those jobs, will probably not go away anytime soon.

It's actually even more messed up than our current system when citizens will literally get free money every month, need to do nothing, and the illegals will be in the fields doing back breaking work for less money by far.

But whatever, slavery has basically been in effect throughout most human history, so nothing new to see here.

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wolfy42 posted...

Honestly I don't know if UBI is a good idea yet, what I would like to see is something that balances the rediculous amount of rent most have to pay.

Basically it's UBI but in the form of rent relief and food stamps only (not directly cash).

And it's based on both the rent you pay (which needs to be reported) and the income you make.

You still qualify for UBI as long as your rent is over 30% of your income per month basically.

Meanwhile food stamps become universal for everyone at 50$ a week per person.

This would not be enough to make anyone happy/live comfortably, but it would keep everyone off the streets and fed, drastically reduce crime, but still give incentive for everyone to work if they can.

As time goes on and less jobs are available it could be expanded on.

That's something that a lot of federal minimum wage proponents ignore: Cost of living is very much not static across the country. Minimum wage in a region should reflect the cost of living in that region, and to that end I'd like to see an algorithm established that would define it accordingly instead of trying to set a flat number. Base it off of median rent (or possibly a lower value like the first quartile) within a half-hour walk of the workplace, include median car/gas costs if you want to expand that to a half-hour drive, and maybe you'd be getting somewhere. As it stands, $15/hour would do nothing in Silicon Valley, but it'd let you live like a king (and, by extension, bankrupt your employer) in many small towns, and that's just a silly, silly idea.

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wolfy42 posted...

Even giving a stimulus check to illegals is going to be very hard since there is no way to identify them.

If a non-citizen filed their taxes with the IRS with an ITIN, they could technically receive a stimulus check just like any other tax filer.

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OH KNOW! The horror of helping people indiscriminately! THE HORROR!


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RCtheWSBC posted...

If a non-citizen filed their taxes with the IRS with an ITIN, they could technically receive a stimulus check just like any other tax filer.

While possible, it's rarely (Extremely rarely) done. Most of the jobs are under the table, and even US citizens don't file taxes on them.

It would leave a method of identifying them open though it's true, but for now it wouldn't help much.

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adjl posted...

That's something that a lot of federal minimum wage proponents ignore

I've been looking around for somewhere cheap to move to in WA, and just rent a studio apartment. I will eventually
be living on about $1000 a month (i'm renting a room and doing that now) but I don't want to live the rest of my life renting a room.

I looked all over WA and it's almost impossible to find a studio apartment right now for less than $800, and then you add utilities + internet (internet is not an option) on that, and yeah.

It's gotten so out of control, I'm not sure how anyone who is retired etc can actual rent a place of their own, without significant savings. It is cheaper in other states of course, but...that requires a long move, and redoing health care etc. I might not have an option long term. Some form of rent control or help for the elderly with rent payments (just for the smallest apartments) is really going to be needed in the next decade for sure.

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wolfy42 posted...

It's actually even more messed up than our current system when citizens will literally get free money every month, need to do nothing, and the illegals will be in the fields doing back breaking work for less money by far.

But whatever, slavery has basically been in effect throughout most human history, so nothing new to see here.

The option to enter legally was always there.

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WhiskeyDisk posted...

The option to enter legally was always there.

Given the lengthy process and that many are fleeing their homeland out of fear of a violent death, it isn't.

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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Why not just give this stimulus check to only US citizens? If we can't get thru a month or several of this without cutting illegals a check too, how far do you think a full-on UBI is going to pan out before that also gets lumped in?

maybe by requiring citizenship to receive UBI? Just a crazy thought

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Mead posted...

maybe by requiring citizenship to receive UBI? Just a crazy thought

the stimulus should be given to everyone in the US because being undocumented doesnt make you any less able to contract or spread covid and the whole point is to help people make ends meet while staying home

Yeah, the stimulus is an emergency measure meant to keep the population afloat through a crisis situation. Comparing it to a long-term solution to crippling poverty - as much as they bear many similarities - isn't the most valid comparison to make.

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The stimulus shouldn't be given to any of the tons of people I saw out today acting like everything is normal. I didn't even get to go shopping because it's not safe at all right now.

Seriously people were standing at bus stations like normal (shoulder to shoulder) going to taco stands, walking down the street. I honestly couldn't tell the difference today from a normal day in April in Tacoma WA. They are completely and totally ignoring the SAH order.

What is worse, because they are doing so, how are people who are high risk (like me) even supposed to get food?.

I guess I can try tomorrow morning during the high risk/elderly hours but the lines were crazy last week. I have backup emergency food, but I would like some fresh food at this point and it ssouldn't be impossible for me to get some without putting myself at risk.

If the virus spreads through this area it's going to be as bad as NY was cause nobody is doing anything to protect themselves (I did not even see one person with a mask today either. Perhaps everyone in WA figures that we already weathered the storm and it's over?

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ca loves helping criminals
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MICHALECOLE posted...

oh no not illegals

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

Krazy_Kirby posted...

ca loves helping criminals

So do many governors and the current president.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

So do many governors and the current president.

All politicians are criminals so it makes sense.

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wolfy42 posted...

All politicians are criminals so it makes sense.

Kirby is very pro government and mass media though. "Believe what they tell you to believe" is his motto. He eats it up and bam, he becomes it.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Kirby is very pro government and mass media though. "Believe what they tell you to believe" is his motto. He eats it up and bam, he becomes it.

i listen to both sides, not just one source bias. the left has just become crazy for socialism
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Referring to people as "illegals" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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Hes been doing this since he was elected. Them and dead people are the biggest voter base here!

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Do they have tax returns from last year or are they just walking the streets throwing money at people who look illegal?

Since I started my job in 2018, my opinion on the illegals issue has shifted a bit, seeing as how my job employs a LOT of illegals. Certain things I did not know beforehand changed my opinion a little.

Some of these people actually buy people's SSNs. There was this kid, couldn't be much older than 16, he would brag that he has some 40 year old dudes SSN. Not sure how this is accomplished but I'm not interested in knowing either.

A lot of the illegals did something it seems to me to be a bit more common in that they would get a work visa for 1 or 5 years, and just not go home when it expired. There's people working with me been here for 25+ years, but only the first years were legal visa stays.

The main thing is, all of these people received paychecks (saw it with my own eyes) that were taxed both by the federal and state governments. Yeah, I'm certain there are tons of illegals working under the table that don't pay taxes. But a lot of them do and I can vouch for it myself.

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Right now for the sake of arguement why would you not want to deal with a potential vector. f we put them into make shift Concentration camps courtesy of ice all you are doing is compounding the infection chances and then if they do escape from one they are carriers until they hit symptomatic levels and physically become to ill to spread the disease as easily.

So bottom line unless you can fine detain each subject with their now sugesed 12 foot of distancing giving them benefits would probably be the best until a vaccine is developed then let the left vs right fight it out.

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ScritchOwl posted...

Right now for the sake of arguement why would you not want to deal with a potential vector. f we put them into make shift Concentration camps courtesy of ice all you are doing is compounding the infection chances and then if they do escape from one they are carriers until they hit symptomatic levels and physically become to ill to spread the disease as easily.

So bottom line unless you can fine detain each subject with their now sugesed 12 foot of distancing giving them benefits would probably be the best until a vaccine is developed then let the left vs right fight it out.

Or just give them nothing then when they do what they have to do to survive, blame them for spreading the virus and use it as a motivator to enforce immigration law.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Or just give them nothing then when they do what they have to do to survive, blame them for spreading the virus and use it as a motivator to enforce immigration law.

Isnt china doing that with the afrikan population right now.


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Think Cali could slip me a Costco membership on the down low while we're at it.

Jen0125 posted...

Referring to people as "illegals" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

well if they came here illegally then that is what they are
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

well if they came here illegally then that is what they are

Have you ever called someone "a legal" before?

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RCtheWSBC posted...

Have you ever called someone "a legal" before?

Yeah telling my cousing he was a legal and that I should call ICE just incase there was confusion. That didnt go over well well with him. His mother was laughing because she caught the joke before he did. Yes they are hispanic.

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ScritchOwl posted...

Yeah telling my cousing he was a legal and that I should call ICE just incase there was confusion. That didnt go over well well with him. His mother was laughing because she caught the joke before he did. Yes they are hispanic.

What does Hispanic have to do with anything other than pointing out you judge them differently?

Anyone can immigrate or emigrate...anyone.

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ScritchOwl posted...

Isnt china doing that with the afrikan population right now.

No, China is just blaming everybody who's black because they're black. They're not forcing black people to act up, they're attacking pre-emptively.
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pedro45 posted...

What does Hispanic have to do with anything other than pointing out you judge them differently?

Anyone can immigrate or emigrate...anyone.

Only one other ethnicity has a border with the US though.
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