Poll of the Day > Why are people upset about the athletes kneeling

(+) Yeah! (+)

My neighbor told me that "they're not standing up for what they believe in anymore!" right they're kneeling for what they believe in...?

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Conservatism is literally a commitment to traditional societal norms.

One of those rules is that you stand during the national anthem.

There needs be no deeper meaning for this to offend conservatives. You're breaking a norm, and that is bad in and of itself.

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They're upset because the world is changing and they don't like it changing to something not in favor of them.

athletic scientists tell us the kneeling should only occur for two more months

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WastelandCowboy posted...

They're upset because the world is changing and they don't like it changing to something not in favor of them.

If you make no real effort to actually understand the people who disagree with you, and simply dismiss all of their opinions with facile mockery and disdain, you probably shouldn't be surprised when those people dismiss your opinions as well and make absolutely no effort to come around to your way of thinking or actively oppose what you consider to be progress.
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Clench281 posted...

Conservatism is literally a commitment to traditional societal norms.

One of those rules is that you stand during the national anthem.

There needs be no deeper meaning for this to offend conservatives. You're breaking a norm, and that is bad in and of itself.

Yes, strictly adhering to a rule, makes it easy to lose sight of the reason behind the rule.

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who cares cause it isnt like anybody stands for the anthem watching it on TV

ParanoidObsessive posted...

If you make no real effort to actually understand the people who disagree with you, and simply dismiss all of their opinions with facile mockery and disdain, you probably shouldn't be surprised when those people dismiss your opinions as well and make absolutely no effort to come around to your way of thinking or actively oppose what you consider to be progress.

The more I understand people who disagree with me the more disagreeable they become.

they like police brutality

it's also why they try changing the the subject by saying it's disrespecting troops even though nobody mentioned troops and the anthem is not exclusively for troops in the first place

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American exceptionalism is a religion and anything that implies that America is anything but great is blasphemy

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They get paid millions of dollars to play the game, so they should shut the fuck up and do their job.

This same capitalist system that people believes oppresses them so much, is the same system that gave them their millions and the right to play their sport.

They have no right to complain or protest about anything.

Raze_Razel posted...

They have no right to complain or protest about anything.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

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Raze_Razel posted...

They get paid millions of dollars to play the game, so they should shut the f*** up and do their job.

They don't get paid to play the game during the national anthem. THAT would be disrespectful.

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papercup posted...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite#:~:text=noun,whose%20actions%20belie%20stated%20beliefs.

The guy is trying to make an argument, and he failed; so he has no right to his argument.

Raze_Razel posted...

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite#:~:text=noun,whose%20actions%20belie%20stated%20beliefs.

I didn't say they can't get upset, I'm saying I don't see the point of it.

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Raze_Razel posted...

The guy is trying to make an argument, and he failed; so he has no right to his argument.

What the fuck are you talking about

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That's not even a strawman. That's like... a strawblobfish or something.

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papercup posted...

What the fuck are you talking about

No sir, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm talking about the athletes kneeling for whatever they are protesting, but little do they know it's the very system they are protesting that allowed them to be where they are today. They have no right to their argument, because they benefited and are only biting the hand that feeds them.

Raze_Razel posted...

No sir, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm talking about the athletes kneeling for whatever they are protesting, but little do they know it's the very system they are protesting that allowed them to be where they are today. They have no right to their argument, because they benefited and are only biting the hand that feeds them.

Oh I think they know, and that's the point, isn't it? They recognize society works for some, but not everyone. You don't have to like everything about the system just because you benefit from it. And, again,
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment idk where you're getting this idea that because you don't like somebody's argument they don't have a right to that argument. That's fucking bonkers.

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This BLM movement is a giant cult. And the whole world is just submitting to their will for fear of being called racist. BLM is less about BLM than it is about overthrowing "white supremacist" capitalism in favor of a communist system. It's a political movement funded by corporations and prominent democrats. On top of it all, they wanna break up the nuclear family so they can indoctrinate your kids into their dystopic hellhole. And before you say im a conspiracy theorist, this is all on their website. It's public information.

Their donations are public as well. Mostly from giant corporations because the giant corporations know that overthrowing the white capitalist system only means overthrowing the middle class and eliminating small business. The big corporations will have their competition wiped out for them

ParanoidObsessive posted...

If you make no real effort to actually understand the people who disagree with you, and simply dismiss all of their opinions with facile mockery and disdain, you probably shouldn't be surprised when those people dismiss your opinions as well and make absolutely no effort to come around to your way of thinking or actively oppose what you consider to be progress.

Very true. I get it, though. Traditionally, you stand for the national anthem, take off your hat, place your hand over your heart (or where you believe your heart to be), and recite along with the speaker. Kneeling and doing nothing else isn't following traditional and that's, like Clench said, the adverse of the fundamentals of conservatism. Same with abortion, gay marriage, marijuana legalization, etc - all practices and actions that are traditionally prohibited or outlawed and the idea that society is or is moving towards legalizing these practices is abhorrent to their beliefs.

Because they're deliberately engaging in an act of disrespect against something signifying America and by extension protesting America? The better question is why do we keep having this shitty topic when it's been answered countless times already?

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Zeus posted...

The better question is why do we keep having this shitty topic when it's been answered countless times already?

The same reason people repost everything else. For the likes, karma, upvotes, comments, retweets, etc.

An arrow to the knee is no laughing matter!!

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"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and villages that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

https://youtu.be/Pyhy4IvkENg

"Stay in the streets! The system is throwing every diversionary and de-mobilizing tactic at us. We are fighting to end policing and prisons as a system which necessitates fighting white supremacist capitalist heteropatriarchal imperialism. Vet your comrades and stay focused." BLM Chicago, Twitter, June 16, 2020.

"We are anti-capitalist. We believe and understand that Black people will never achieve liberation under the current global racialized capitalist system." Movement for Black Lives (M4BL), of which BLM is a part, June 5, 2020.

"We are an ABOLITIONIST movement. We do not believe in reforming the police, the state or the prison industrial complex." BLM UK, June 21, 2020.

This is a radical organization even if many of the supporters aren't that radical or aren't aware of how radical they actually are

I never understood the bellyaching over the kneeling.

It's during the national anthem (when the athletes aren't playing and nothing else is happening anyway) for a sports event (the absolute definition of "non-essential", Ron DeSantis be damned), when you're supposed to be looking at the flag and not the players on the field anyway.
It's literally impossible to protest in a more unobtrusive way than that.
And if anything, I'd consider kneeling more respectful than standing w/ a hand on your chest...

Conservatives were upset about BLM blocking roads (understandably). Told them to find a way to voice their issues without shutting down essential traffic lanes and commerce.
They did.
Conservatives cried even harder than before.

Any blocked streets or rioting that occurs now? It's on their fucking heads. They asked for this. BLM had a perfectly reasonable means of protesting, and the right went on the mother of all bitch fits over it. Fuck 'em.

I don't recall who it was, but I once saw someone say that if athletes were kneeling to show their support for outlawing abortion, conservatives would remember what free speech was REAL fast.

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if they truly disagreed they would actually try to do something, not just kneel
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

if they truly disagreed they would actually try to do something, not just kneel

Protest out in public in a way that causes disruption to literally any other person's life, no matter how minor? "THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO PROTEST"

Protest in a way that the message has wide reach but doesn't disrupt others lives? "IF YOU CARED YOU'D ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING"

It doesn't matter what they do, because you'll find a way to disagree with it.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

if they truly disagreed they would actually try to do something, not just kneel

what type of protest would they have to engage with to make them agree with / understand the point they are trying to make?

Kneeling is usually seen as subservient. People kneeled to the king in old days. If you want to be counted, stand the fuck up!

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Zeus posted...

Because they're deliberately engaging in an act of disrespect against something signifying America and by extension protesting America?

In what bassackwards universe is kneeling an act of disrespect?

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adjl posted...

In what bassackwards universe is kneeling an act of disrespect?

Because you're supposed to stand, either saluting (active-duty military) or with your hand over your heart (retired military & civilians) while the national anthem is played. Kneeling as protest is being framed as disrespectful, even though the entire kneeling thing was thought of by a Green Beret.

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DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

Because you're supposed to stand

And? Kneeling is almost universally a gesture of respect, regardless of how people expect respect to be expressed at any given time. It stands out because it's different and unexpected, not because it's disrespectful.

And that's without saying anything about the supreme, absurd irony of having strict rules about how one must show respect for "the land of the free."

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Raze_Razel posted...

They get paid millions of dollars to play the game, so they should shut the fuck up and do their job.

This same capitalist system that people believes oppresses them so much, is the same system that gave them their millions and the right to play their sport.

They have no right to complain or protest about anything.

Imagine actually believing something this fucking stupid.

last I checked, no one was kneeling instead of catching a touchdown pass you fuckin genius.

Isn't it amazing how some atheles kneeling during the part of the game where nothing's going on anyway rustles the right's jimmies more than blockading the streets ever did?
They literally cannot stop crying about it. They demand laws to be passed (that would hilariously be shredded to pieces in any court) and NFL rules be changed just to stop it from happening because it hurts them SOOOOO much!

I was originally on their side w/ BLM. BLM's initial tactics went too far, I agreed. Blocking streets is dangerous.
But the right has become a fucking parody of themselves at this point, and now all I want to do is point and laugh at them.

adjl posted...

And? Kneeling is almost universally a gesture of respect, regardless of how people expect respect to be expressed at any given time. It stands out because it's different and unexpected, not because it's disrespectful.

And that's without saying anything about the supreme, absurd irony of having strict rules about how one must show respect for "the land of the free."

All of this.

adjl posted...

And? Kneeling is almost universally a gesture of respect, regardless of how people expect respect to be expressed at any given time. It stands out because it's different and unexpected, not because it's disrespectful.

And that's without saying anything about the supreme, absurd irony of having strict rules about how one must show respect for "the land of the free."

I didn't say it was disrespectful, I said it's being framed that way by people who want to ignore the issues the kneeling is designed to call attention to.

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The other day my mom pointed out the BLM acronym on the baseball mound during a game and asked me if it bothered me.

I said that it did not, as I was just trying to watch a baseball game. My view is, whatever political stuff or whatever you call it, gets into the games(BLM, black power fist, kneeling, etc) doesn't matter. Now I do in general agree with BLM and kneeling, but even so, I'm just trying to watch a game, which is surprisingly easy, without caring about the political side of it.

Some people "want to watch a game" without any of that stuff. I don't care if its in there, as all I'm trying to do is watch a game.

DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

I didn't say it was disrespectful, I said it's being framed that way by people who want to ignore the issues the kneeling is designed to call attention to.

And that is correct.

argonautweakend posted...

Some people "want to watch a game" without any of that stuff. I don't care if its in there, as all I'm trying to do is watch a game.

Pretty much. Although, that's something that's really only that easy to do if you have already considered and made peace with the issue at hand. The folks that would rather pretend the issue doesn't exist than confront it and make a decision where they stand will have a much harder time with that, since its mere mention disrupts their safe space.

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It draws attention to an issue many would like to believe doesn't exist.

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The left thinks kneeling is just protesting and the right thinks it's disrespect towards soldiers that fought and died for this country, I'm not sure why anyone would need to ask this anymore

Honestly I think it would have been better to stop kneeling early, not because it's disrespectful but because pissing off half the country is gonna make it harder for your movement to make any change

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Muscles posted...

The left thinks kneeling is just protesting and the right thinks it's disrespect towards soldiers that fought and died for this country, I'm not sure why anyone would need to ask this anymore

Because blindly following and defending traditions, leads to blind patriotism, leads to just blindly following orders?

Thinking about and reminding people of the "why" is a good thing.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Because blindly following and defending traditions, leads to blind patriotism, leads to just blindly following orders?

Thinking about and reminding people of the "why" is a good thing.

I think you read that in the wrong tone, I'm not saying it's right I'm just showing what both sides think on the matter, it has been well known what both sides think, I think both sides are stupid personally

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Muscles posted...

the right thinks it's disrespect

adjl posted...

In what bassackwards universe is kneeling an act of disrespect?

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I have no idea, that's what they think though, and it's well known that's what they think

I'm not trying to defend that idea because it is stupid

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Muscles posted...

I'm not trying to defend that idea because it is stupid

And yet you suggest accepting their stupidity for the sake of not pissing them off rather than calling them out on it. That's the rough equivalent of giving Karen her milkshake for free because she complained to the manager about it taking three seconds longer than she wanted.

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There is more productive ways to protest imo, a protest won't be successful if you just piss everyone off that you want to come to your side

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If people get pissed off when you press them on something as simple as "how is kneeling disrespectful?", odds are they're actually pissed off about being reminded of and made to confront the issue instead of being able to ignore and forget about it (especially when the vast majority of people getting pissed off by this "disrespect" sit on their asses while the anthem plays on TV, if they aren't treating it as an opportunity to take a leak). The idea that kneeling is "disrespectful" isn't tremendously defensible, for reasons we've already gone over here.

The bottom line is that nobody actually feels that unnecessary police brutality and killings are a good thing. Pretty much everyone can agree that's bad. The challenge, however, comes in actually looking into the details of what's happening in any given case to form one's own opinion on how justified violence is. It means moving away from the comfortable position of being able to trust that your local police are good people with your best interests at heart and facing the reality that some of them are abusing their position, and your moral responsibility to hold them accountable for that. That's really unpleasant, and it's a whole lot easier and more comfortable to ignore the whole thing. That's why people get so uppity about the protests spilling into their sportsball time, even in reasonable, unobtrusive ways that don't actually interfere with the playing of the game in any way. They're trying to relax, but it's hard to relax when you're being reminded that there's a major social issue that you're trying to ignore.

The thing is, that's always going to be a problem for that crowd. They're always going to be doing something that they'd rather just enjoy (or otherwise focus on) in peace instead of having to make significant moral decisions. Without adequate pressure, those decisions will be procrastinated indefinitely, because these people have the privilege of doing so. Yes, that pressure is going to piss people off. People don't like being pressured to do stuff they're trying to put off. But that's no reason to stop applying it.

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it further creates the division within the country. we need a group that looks for unity but all we got is trump vs antifa vs BLM

I get your point, and I'm not saying just stop, go and do interviews about it, pregame, postgame, podcasts, interviews with tv/radio shows, etc. Go out and do charity in brutalized cities, advocate for certain laws/politicians that will help end systemic racism, go to a peaceful protest, there is plenty of other, more impactful ways a famous athlete can help to change the way things are without dividing people further

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