Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic: Back to School Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah this is a pretty nutty expansion all things considered

also I changed my mind on Druid, though I think Guardian Animals/Stealth dude are way worse than lightning bloom

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Oh when your opponent plays a fully invoked Galakrond when you plagiarize you get a fully invoked Galakrond

I don't know about this secret but it's super fun

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With Tour Guide and Lightning Bloom it's now very easy to get multiple double Shudderwock turns in Reno Quest Shaman so that's what I've been doing.

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Apparently people are still playing bomb warrior (one of my least favorite decks) and wow it wrecks highlander Priest

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Grind out a win against Paladin that takes 20 minutes: gain 1 star

Lose the next game against face Hunter on turn 5: lose 1 star

Always nice to be reminded why I don't bother grinding ranked.


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skullbone posted...

Apparently people are still playing bomb warrior (one of my least favorite decks) and wow it wrecks highlander Priest

I would be 100% playing bomb warrior if I didn't need something like 8800 dust to craft the cards I'm missing for it. Wrecks highlander stuff, wrecks Polkelt BS...

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After all the speculation of cards that would break wild...from the first meta report I've seen on wild looks like the answer is...Darkglare. (The warlock 3 mana 3/4 that came out last expansion).

Not what I expected when it was barely played in wild last expansion. Obviously the potential was there--a card in wild that lets you cheat mana. I just didn't expect the card to go from relative joke to massive problem deck so fast.

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Tour Guide and Raise Dead were pretty big for it yeah, zoo is in a similar boat in standard but in wild I guess you have Kobold librarian and like molten giant/reaver and can instantly put a clock on your opponent quickly

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My latest game of battlegrounds came down to four players all going for murlocs.

I had poison and divine shield, but only three total murlocs. One opponent had a board of five poison murlocs but no divine shield. Another had six with divine shield but no poison, and they were all small. The final one was Flurgl and was still on tier 4 so they never had a chance to get a Megasaur, but they had six absolutely massive murlocs, one with poison. A fifth player also technically went murlocs, but they left after turn two or three so all they had was a pair of tier ones.

It was close enough that we went back and forth for something like eight or nine turns doing chip damage to each other. I was able to slowly build up two more vanilla minions with Shudderwocks hero power to kill the hexapoisonous guy and finally win, but that lobby went hard on murlocs.

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Camden posted...

A fifth player also technically went murlocs, but they left after turn two or three so all they had was a pair of tier ones.

I...don't think that counts. That's getting tokens, not going murlocs.

I had a game with a long late game last night, too. I lost in third place on turn 20. The other two players were dragons, and I had some cobbled together build with a poisonous amalgadon, a huge cleave, and divine shields. I was surprised I lasted as long as I did, but I finally got a terrible sequence of attacks against the one guy, who had an enormous goldgrubber + razorgore. My poison whiffed badly. I might not have won, but it was one of the more entertaining games I've played in a long time.

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Balance changes announced.

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/hearthstone/23494815/18-0-2-patch-notes

Kaelthas Sunstrider

• Old: Every third spell you cast each turn costs (0). New: Every third spell you cast each turn costs (1).

Mindrender Illucia

• Old: [Cost 2] New: [Cost 3]

Battlegrounds Minion Updates

• Gentle Megasaur has been removed from the Battlegrounds minion pool.
• Arcane Cannon has been removed from Battlegrounds minion pool.

Rabid Saurolisk

• Old: 3 Attack, 2 Health New: 4 Attack, 2 Health

Rat Pack

• Old: [Tier 2] New: [Tier 3]

Pack Leader

• Old: [Tier 3] New: [Tier 2]

Monstrous Macaw

• Old: 3 Attack, 2 Health New: 4 Attack, 3 Health

Primalfin Lookout

• Old: [Tier 5] New: [Tier 4]
• Now only Discovers minions from your current Tavern Tier or below.

Nat Pagle, Extreme Angler

• Old: Overkill: Summon a 0/2 Treasure Chest. New: After this attacks and kills a minion, add a random minion to your hand.
• Minions generated are from your Tavern Tier or below.

Mama Bear

• Old: [Tier 6] 5 Attack, 5 Health. Whenever you summon a Beast, give it +5/+5. New: [Tier 5] 4 Attack, 4 Health. Whenever you summon a Beast, give it +4/+4.

Goldrinn, the Great Wolf

• Old: Deathrattle: Give your Beasts +4/+4. New: Deathrattle: Give your Beasts +5/+5.

Battlegrounds Hero Updates

• Lady Vashj has been removed from the Battlegrounds Hero pool.

Captain Eudora

• Buried TreasureOld: Dig for a Golden minion! (4 Digs left.) New: Dig for a Golden minion! (5 Digs left.)

Reno Jackson

• Gonna Be Rich!Old: [Cost 2] New: [Cost 0]

The Lich King

• Reborn RitesOld: [Cost 1] New: [Cost 0]

Galakrond

• Galakronds GreedNow freezes the minion added to Bobs Tavern.

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I think removing divine shield from Megasaur would have been good enough but murlocs getting nerfed out of the game is okay too I guess.

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The Reno Jackson hero power has now cost 4, 3, 2 and 0.

Won't complain about Kaelthas, but even if Druid is less obnoxious now I think that it's all but guaranteed that Bloom is going to eventually be a problem again in the future.

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Camden posted...

I think that it's all but guaranteed that Bloom is going to eventually be a problem again in the future.

Drawn winrate stats on Bloom are pretty similar to innervate (the nerfed innervate that gives 1 mana). In the most played Druid deck on HSReplay, it's 47.2% drawn winrate on innervate, vs 45.8% drawn winrate on lightning bloom. In the second most played Druid deck on HSReplay, they're tied (62.5% drawn winrate). Third most played Druid deck, Innervate is 59.7%, and Lightning Bloom is slightly ahead at 59.9%. Looks like statistical variation.

What about deck inclusion rate? Most Druid decks are running both right now, so that's not helpful. Looking in wild, Lightning Bloom is run in about as many Shaman decks (23%) as Counterfeit Coin is run in Rogue decks (21%).

IDK, I would be surprised if Lightning Bloom got a nerf. It's possible, of course, since mana is always kind-of dangerous, but at the moment the power-level of the card just doesn't look that high. Overgrowth is looking like the much more likely nerf when it comes to Druid mana cards.

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Its still Guardian Animals I think, its near UI level but its at 7 mana (though overgrowth helps get there and would be playable at 5). Cabal Acolyte is also pretty high in power.

Think Lich King and Reno might be tier 1 now that their hero powers are zero mana, and Murlocs might still be good, just not oppressively good. Beasts might be a bit too good now that they put Mama at 5 (which I think might be a mistake but who knows)

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Holy shit those are some changes. Like, I heard about the Illucia and Kael'thas already. Regis had a video up. I don't think the Illucia one does much, but Kael'thas is now probably an acceptable level of broken.

But those battlegrounds notes are really something.

• Removing megasaur and cannon is great. The game was devolving into if you could find those two minions or not. And cannon never feels good -- to play with or against.
• Primalfin going to 4 is weird. It means murlocs have something on 4 rather than a big jump from 3 to 5, but without anything to care about on six. (I doubt they really care for Amalgadon.)
• Mama Bear is back to +4, but now it's on tier 5, which just feels a whole hell of a lot better. This on 5 and Goldrinn on 6 makes so much more sense than the other way around. By the time you get Mama, you have to replay all your beasts to get any mileage, which means you basically have to upend your hold comp. Now at least it's more reasonable to do that. Not sure about the other beast flip-flop with Rat Pack and Pack Leader, but Pack Leader hitting early is good for the same reason as Mama.
• New Pagle strikes me as trash. I mean, sure, it can generate for you, which fits with pirates' economy theme, but the reason you want Pagle is to give your board increased longevity, like boat or ghastcoiler. Pagle was a bad boat that had the pirate type. Now he's...I don't know what, honestly. Weird Rafaam hero power?
• Eudora -- probably toast. I didn't think Eudora needed a nerf, honestly, but this will kill the old strategy of dig on 1. It also means you're lucky to get two golden minions from her by game's end.
• Reno and Lich King on 0 make them a lot more attractive. Especially Reno, which was originally believed to be worth 4 gold, and has gradually been dropped to 3, 2, and now free. I imagine turn 1 Wrath Weaver starts to look really nice now. As so deathrattle comps in Lich King. An early Kaboom Bot or Spawn of N'Zoth is going to be massive.

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azuarc posted...

(I doubt they really care for Amalgadon.)

Amalgadon is now their only way of getting divine shield (by magnetizing a mech onto it or getting lucky with the battlecry) so...they probably care.

azuarc posted...

Mama Bear is back to +4, but now it's on tier 5, which just feels a whole hell of a lot better. This on 5 and Goldrinn on 6 makes so much more sense than the other way around. By the time you get Mama, you have to replay all your beasts to get any mileage, which means you basically have to upend your hold comp. Now at least it's more reasonable to do that. Not sure about the other beast flip-flop with Rat Pack and Pack Leader, but Pack Leader hitting early is good for the same reason as Mama.

Yeah, agreed. I don't know about these changes power-level wise (pack leader on 2 in particular is pretty jaw-dropping, like that was a good 3 drop). But in terms of feel, these feel like sensible changes. Get the beast buff cards before you pick up your beasts instead of after you pick up your beasts.

Actually, I guess maybe pack leader on 2 is fine cause there's nothing super strong to pair it with (kindly grandmother? Saurolisk? Yeah...neither of those are very scary paired with a pack leader).

Rat Pack will have fewer copies in the pool, but also be a lot less fought-over now (everyone picked it on 2 because it had good stats for a 2 drop. On 3, most people will leave it unless they are deathwing or have a pack leader/mama bear). So...might actually make rat pack easier to pick up for people going beasts.

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Well shit, forgot Kaelthas can't be dusted.

Edit: Thankfully this was a game I was playing just to concede for the Play 3 quest, which means this was actually beneficial to me.

https://i.imgur.com/l886ZKR.png

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azuarc posted...

Pagle was a bad boat that had the pirate type. Now he's...I don't know what, honestly. Weird Rafaam hero power?

Aggro Zerus

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Honestly killing off cannon, Pagle, and bumping rat pack will at least make it less likely to get blown out of the early game.

I played a little bit and realized games now are way slower with these changes. Think the greedy heroes are really good now and while some tempo heroes are also still strong they lose some power in the late game. Murlocs arent complete garbage either but I think you need a Brann to make them work.

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There's a legit Temporus deck in wild now.

For some reason this makes me happy.

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I played Galakrond today and had the strongest warband in the lobby. I still lost because I wasn't crushingly ahead and I low-rolled a pivotal fight, but he didn't feel awful to play. I would have still rather had Toki because I was using him just to amp up a single minion at a time. There wasn't a turn in the game where I really felt like gee, what I really want to do is completely freeze my board several turns in a row. At best, I could have hit a minion at the end of my turn and then at the start of the next. Not sure why I never did that. Obviously that's about the only way that he's better than Toki unless you are truly going to hold your board for an extra turn. Say, maybe on 7 gold you buy two and hero power, but that implies that on 6 you hero powered as well, which isn't likely unless you have tokens to sell. I don't know. I'll let someone better at the game than me figure out the "right" way to play.

I definitely felt weirdly caught in-between on picking beasts or not picking beasts, though. In my other game, I started collecting murlocs, and then realized that their endgame wasn't really there any more. Like, not just weakened, but completely removed. Ultimately, I ended up with a mech-demon hybrid, but I got bounced by someone with a full Goldrinn comp.

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On turn 10, I just faced a Lich King who had Ghastcoiler and Baron. The Ghastcoiler died, summoned a six and two fives, and then came back to life. I took 31 damage. I had a promising build and was doing pretty well, but suddenly I was cut down and got seventh place. Weren't those the kind of results they want to impede?



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First game without Megasaur went exactly as expected.

https://i.imgur.com/ETxPMm5.png

Edit: Lost because my opponent had four poison murlocs and two Amalgadons with divine shield and poisonous. Murlocs going out with a bang.

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lol. I've definitely encountered a surprising number of poisonous murlocs.

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FFDragon posted...

There's a legit Temporus deck in wild now.

For some reason this makes me happy.

Wait what? I had to look this up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEMNJyB_jFc

I guess Temporus is fine if you use it with Illucia to give your opponent an absolute garbage hand for two turns.

The deck looks a lot like Chef Nomi Priest, though--you basically have to draw Auctioneer or you lose. Actually, Chef Nomi Priest could also use wild pyro + Acolyte of pain instead of auctioneer--I wonder why he's not running Acolyte of Pain?

Regardless, the combo itself seems fine, but I don't think priest really has the draw engine to make the deck as a whole good. Needing to draw auctioneer is just rough sometimes; needing to wait until turn 6 even if you do draw auctioneer can also be rough; I notice that there's an editing cut after every game in that video, and his rank never rises above the rank floor.

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Played twice against Druid just now, glad to know the deck plays exactly the same and at the exact same speed as it did before.

Also, finally lost to one of them.

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My tilt in Battlegrounds has gone through the roof since installing a deck tracker. The amount of 80% games you lose is just stupid.

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skullbone posted...

My tilt in Battlegrounds has gone through the roof since installing a deck tracker. The amount of 80% games you lose is just stupid.

The worst part is when you lose three of them in a row to close out a game. I wasn't aware I could tilt that much, I think I carried it over into the next three games.

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Really glad I made it to Legend before Bomb Warrior became the most prominent deck on ladder, because that shit wrecks Priest hard.

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Im assuming Illucia is still worth crafting for Priest since shes so good against the mirror and other control.

Also, a little surprised about the bomb warrior matchup because I thought priest was favored. Maybe the fact they are all running Galakrond now changes that.

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Priest is easy win for bomb warrior you just have to trade decks right when you're about to draw 10 bombs. 100% win rate please buy my book "How to be a Hearthstone Master" for $19.99

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Oh theyre cutting the pirate package and just running upgrades and Doctor Kaz/Cutting Class

Ok now I think I get it.

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skullbone posted...

My tilt in Battlegrounds has gone through the roof since installing a deck tracker. The amount of 80% games you lose is just stupid.

To be fair, sometimes deck tracker has some really surprising odds. I don't think it's perfectly accurate.

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It runs each battle 1,000 times, right?

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Yeah...pure paladin is fairly consistently negative winrate for me on ladder.

Demon Hunter is doing ok for me though.

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Camden posted...

It runs each battle 1,000 times, right?

Oh, it's accurate most of the time, for sure. And some of those moments where I don't trust it are my own biases. But then I hit weird ones occasionally where there's no way I wouldn't be favored, and I crush my opponent, yet it says I only have 20% odds to win.

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I know it struggles with deathrattles that generate minions but otherwise it seems pretty okay.

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Wild Even Hunter.

Was trying it out. Really only gains one new card (Manafeeder Panthera. People have tried Voracious Reader but from all I've heard your curve is too high when you're loaded up on 2-drops).

Winstreaked all the way from bronze 4 to middle of platinum.

I lost one game at the very start (to a board flood druid when I mulliganed explosive trap thinking it was an ultimate infestation druid) and one game at the very end (to a priest who played Reno Jackson twice, played super greedy on the second Reno, and actually needed it cause I got them down to 3 HP at the end).

Honestly I don't even know why this deck is winning. I guess it's a combination of generally high card quality, while being weirdly ok in a longer game (decent amount of card draw and reach).

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Why the f*** is Rogue finding Raz in a stealth mirror off of Dragons Hoard if not for extreme levels of bad game design?

Why would stealth rogue run Dragon's Hoard in the first place? Like...there's rogue lists out there that run Dragon's Hoard such as Highlander and Quest Rogue, but it sounds pretty awkward in a stealth package.

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The burgle package (Vendetta and maybe Fencer with Hoard) is pretty good with secret passage and questing now but thats not a stealth one, thats just a secret one

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Climbing in battlegrounds sure is a lot slower than falling. Today I've gone 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 8th. To salt the wound, both of those 8th place finishes were Bigglesworth so I never even got to use his hero power.

Playing as Bigglesworth again right now because apparently the game really wants the cat to be one of my two choices, let's see if I can rebound a bit.

Edit: 7th, but the person in 8th quit right away so all I got was a 2/3 murloc. Cat is cursed for me.

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Mr Bigglesworth is one of those heroes where the three most likely places to end up with the hero are 1st, 8th, and 7th (in that order).

Like Alextraza and Funglmancer Furgl (Better than Furgl, worse than Alextraza, but overall the same energy).

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Hm Barov or Soulciologist

my heart says the latter but my brain says the former

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