Board 8 > Hearthstone Topic: Back to School Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

LiquidOshawott posted...

Hm Barov or Soulciologist

my heart says the latter but my brain says the former

Barov is used in slightly more decks right now, because Libram Paladin is so popular and people sometimes put him in that. He's definitely not needed for Libram Paladin. He arguably is maybe a good board clear for control warrior decks like Bomb Warrior, but there's lots of other board clears you can run instead. (And besides, would you rather run bomb warrior, or would you rather run shiny new recruit/big warrior which doesn't even want Barov?) By comparison Soulciologist is just an enabler card (you basically can't run a soul fragment deck without her. You can run a control warrior deck without Barov, it'll just be a deck that swaps out a good board clear for a slightly worse board clear).

---

Wait, which Barov? My brain immediately went to Jandice.

---

Oh I was thinking Lord cause I crafted Jandice

---

Is xav8tr someone from here? I can never keep track. But if you are, your account is sending me a bunch of unrelated messages, like it's been taken over by a bot.

---

I just assumed Barov would mean Lord Barov (since Lord Barov doesn't have any other names) and not Jandice Barov (who if I was going to refer to by a single name I'd call her Jandice).

---

Which is fair, except that contextually Jandice is closer to Malicia because of the classes they're in. I've also been seeing Jandice more recently. If the question had been asked two days after the expansion hit, I probably would have been thinking of Lord Barov.

---

Well, was short on time to play this month, was plat 3 and plat 1 in wild/standard. Managed to sneak in one more game on the plat 1 to get over the line for diamond. But no epic for me this month RIP. (I'm 10 star MMR in both standard and wild, so I really just need to play to get those epics, but it's still more playing than the old system).

---

So Ive been kinda thinking, and this might be a good nerf just because of both standard and wild, but

Sorcerers Apprentice

---

Actually it would probably hurt Mage's deck a lot, but a bunch of 0 mana spells that can be easily generated now just feels silly to play against

---

I almost feel like there should be a general nerf that no card's mana cost can go below 1 (besides cards that start at 0 of course).

---

GANON1025 posted...

I almost feel like there should be a general nerf that no card's mana cost can go below 1 (besides cards that start at 0 of course).

Eh.

Like there have been cards that had cost reduction to 0 that were never terribly strong, or at least not strong for their ability to reduce costs to 0.

Reckless Experimenter is a good example. The cost reduction was good, It was used in a serious deck (Mech'a'thun priest) but not for its ability to reduce to zero. (It got nerfed briefly because of snip snap, and then immediately un-nerfed, when the ability to reduce echo cards to 0 was removed. Last I checked nobody was bothering with the card in wild).

The original druid quest (Barnabus) reduced all cards in your deck to 0 and it was...okay. Not the strongest quest, but also not weak to the point of unplayability, just...okaish.

Scarlet Webweaver allows for some cute meme videos with 0 mana King Krushes, but isn't considered particularly good.

Fire Plume Harbinger--I've used it in a deck, and reduced the cost of things to 0. It's okay, doesn't make the cut in most people's lists.

Frizz Kindleroost: can reduce your 2 mana dragons to 0 mana. With a couple shadowsteps you could reduce all your dragons to 0 mana. It's...a playable card, nothing special, nobody ever bothers shadowstepping it.

Or there's the new warlock quest, which the upgraded hero power is like lifetap except it reduces the cost of the card to 0. It's...kind of a medium strength Ulduum quest; not the strongest, not the weakest.

Or there's Raging Felscreamer in Demon Hunter. Can reduce the cost of a 2-cost demon to 0. Or you can stack two of them in a row, and it reduces a 4-cost demon to 0. The ability to reduce to 0 was not even the strong mode of the card, the strong mode of the card was playing Priestess of Fury on turn 5.

Or there's Mechwarper--only ever really caused problems when Snip Snap was involved. Now that it's back to being unable to reduce snip snap to 0, the card is...overall a high power card obviously, it's a 2 mana 2/3 with a relevant tribe and an upside, but I would be very surprised if it got nerfed--two of them let you dump your whole hand on turn 3 and die to a board clear, but that's not all that valuable--worth noting the relevant wild deck that runs it is packed with a lot of high power card draw spells to try and combat how quickly mechwarper decks just run out of resources.

(I also enjoy playing with a lot of these cards, and wouldn't like to see big across the board wild nerfs to cards that aren't really a problem in the format).

---

Okay, Monday morning quarterbacking time: pivot to dragons or stay with murlocs? The Nadina was a Rafaam steal, from a dragon player who did not have a Kalecgos.



I pivoted and managed to win, and the final was easy, but getting there was a little rocky and dependent on some very good RNG in the tavern.

---

I would...lean towards pivot yeah. Murlocs can have a good endgame without megasaur, but when your highest health on any of them is 14, and you only have one poisonous, they're...not terribly close to that endgame.

Whereas you have all the endgame pieces for dragons. Nadina. Macaw to double up on Nadina. Kalecgos. Even a Brann to synergize a little with Kalecgos.

---

I dont like Kaly post turn 10 or so since its pretty slow and you can get blown out by beasts or another complete comp but you are high enough health that you can buy some dragons, hold, and then go off next turn I guess.

---

Yeah if anything that would have been a turn of just buying 2-3 things, and then making the switch next turn. BUt I think personally I would have stayed on murloc there.

---

LiquidOshawott posted...

I dont like Kaly post turn 10 or so since its pretty slow and you can get blown out

This was basically the reason why I was nervous. Obviously we're down to 5 players at that point. Thankfully none of them were worldbeaters. It's been almost a week since I played that game, so I don't remember the deets, but the health total was the only reason I decided to maybe try for it. IIRC, I said "next minion I'm offered that helps decides it" and then I rerolled and was handed a Razorgore.

---

Someone on my friends list is rank 64 legend in Wild. Is that someone here? I have no idea how I'm friends with this person otherwise

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphbMIGELM4

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23509390/18-2-patch-notes

---

The new Barov cards seem fun. Jandice seems really strong, maybe too strong of a hero power to be free. I guess it'll depend on whether or not the card keeps its enchantments when you give it back to Bob

---

That Archwitch Willow change seems odd, costs one less but gets -2/-2 for a card I honestly don't think I've ever seen be it from a deck or randomly generated.

---

I didn't know Willow existed and after checking I own Willow.

---

I forgot all about Willow. The most memorable part about it is the artwork.

I don't think Jandice seems overpowered. Capable, given that you can double-play battlecry buffs, but not as good as Shudderwock in that regard. The place where it's going to shine over the 'wock is in the early game where you can do a sort of Malygos swap with your tokens. So it's okay. I'm more curious what getting 3 coins in a turn is going to do. On one hand, we have heroes (Maiev, Rafaam) that are already pay 1 for a conditional minion, and this has the appearance of being a bad version of Maiev. However, the fact that you can stockpile those coins is pretty significant. Plus, gold can be used to pay for tavern-ups as well. Turn 3, sans tokens, you can maybe nab three gold, then level on 4 and have enough to refresh and grab a 3-star. Going to be interesting to see how the breakpoints play with him. And even moreso with Onu, who I suspect is not very good, but might have some strong options for leveling aggressively. It's like they brought druid ramp to battlegrounds. (Makes me wonder how strong a hero that simply starts with 4 gold would be.)

Anyway, who's up for some battleground parties?

---

But the difference with Jandice is that you can keep playing the same minion every turn. So token generators will be easy goldens in the early game and she's pretty good at pogo as well. I mean you could literally just keep 1 pogo and keep replaying it every turn while playing the rest of the game normal.

Most battlecries are just okay if you're able to replay it but things that buff itself like pogo or battlemaster will be broken if they keep enchantments.

---

skullbone posted...

But the difference with Jandice is that you can keep playing the same minion every turn. So token generators will be easy goldens in the early game and she's pretty good at pogo as well. I mean you could literally just keep 1 pogo and keep replaying it every turn while playing the rest of the game normal.

Oh snap, hadn't thought about how she basically lets you repeatedly buy battecries. I was just thinking about her as a sort-of Yogg Saron random minion buy. The fact that you can buy back the minion you "sell" sounds super busted.

That's going to be good with like...Murlocs getting King Bagurgle every turn, for example. And obviously pogos (the way it's worded the pogo keeps enchantments, so you get to re-buy a 7/7 pogo and have it get +6/+6 and end up 13/13). I think I've seen people post custom hero designs that allowed bouncing a minion, and everyone in the comment section declared it broken. So uhh...yeah.

On nerfs:

Secret Passage: yeah sure. I was just speculating on strongest cards in wild, and the three I came up with based on drawn winrate stats in tier 1 decks were Reno Jackson, Kobold Librarian, and.....Secret Passage. So when you're one of the three best cards in wild, yeah, toning you down is...reasonable. (Also after refinement aggro rogue is good in standard now).

Cabal Acolyte: I'm a little surprised about this one. Good card, don't get me wrong. It was certainly in the top 5 of drawn winrate cards for Priest, but Priest isn't...really a problem deck is it? Like in the Vicious Syndicate report Priest had...two decks in tier 3.

Totem Goliath: That's going to be a scary card now for totem shaman. Card is averagish in totem shaman already. This is basically a full mana buff (removing one overload isn't a full mana buff, +1 attack isn't a full mana buff, but the two of them together kinda do add up to a full mana buff).

Archwitch Willow: O..kay?

Darkglare: You know, obviously this is a nerf targetting wild Darkglare Warlock. But I'm actually kind-of excited for this change, because they also buffed it to 2 mana which makes the card even, and wild even warlock is the deck I used to get legend a while back. I've been wanting to try out new cards like Raise Dead and Flesh Giant in even warlock. Although...with only 1 mana restored, IDK if it's good enough. Certainly Darkglare+tap on 3 doesn't do much (you get 1 mana which you...float because you're an even deck). Darkglare+tap+2 mana play on turn 4 is...fine I guess? Basically makes Darkglare a 2 mana 2/3 that draws a card and deals 2 damage to you, which is...fine, build your own ghetto Questing Explorer. On turn 5 Darkglare + tap + double Vulgar Homunculus? That's cool I guess, but Kanrethad Ebonlocke can also reduce the cost of Vulgar Homunculus to 1, and nobody is actually running that card in evenlock. Ehhh...maybe Darkglare just isn't good in Even Warlock post-nerf.

You know, I think maybe I was expecting Darkglare to be nerfed to a 4 mana 3/4 with the same card text. This would allow for some real mana shenanigams starting around turn 5 in Even Warlock, where lifetap would be a net mana gain, Vulgar Homunculus would become free, and Raise Dead would become old school innervate. But with the card text change--only 1 mana restored it's...just not that exciting. It like...reduces the cost of your self-damage cards by 1 mana, so ok cool, it's almost mechwarper for self-damage cards, but...it's really not because you still need mana to play your self damage card before you get the mana refund, so you can't do darkglare+Vulgar Homunculus on turn 3 for example (whereas you can do mechwarper+2 drop mech on turn 3).

So overall...meh. If you get it to restore 2 mana for you in ways that actually allow you to use the mana that turn and don't just cause you to float 1 mana it's...a 0 mana 2/3, which...doesn't sound bad, but might not be worth the card slot in a deck that plays 0 mana 8/8s.

---

Darkglare might be ok still in zoo tbh, Has some synergy with Kanrethad and Tour Guide with a decentish curve


---

azuarc posted...

Anyway, who's up for some battleground parties?

I'd join. I apparently no longer know how to play though, if the last two weeks worth of results is anything to go by.

---

I could probably be talked into a battlegrounds party if the schedule worked out well for me.

LiquidOshawott posted...

Darkglare might be ok still in zoo tbh, Has some synergy with Kanrethad and Tour Guide with a decentish curve

I mean, yeah, sure, it's now ghetto mechwarper for self-damage cards, so it could still fit into a zoo deck with a bunch of 1 mana self-damage cards.

Darkglare Warlock might also just live on as a combo deck, cause you can draw both your Darkglares using Sense Demons, and then play both on 4 mana, get 2 mana back for each ping of self damage.

I just...don't think Darkglare slots into Even Warlock anymore.

---

I've been experimenting with trying to make a new Quest Paladin deck.... it's not going great yet

---

Hearthstone Dev confirmed that minions swapped by Jandice keep their enchantments. So yeah she's completely busted. Someone on the reddit posted this too and I never would have thought to do this:

"Magnetic - You can play a Magnetic minion on board, buff it and attach other magnetic minions to it. Once you find a mech you like (probably Foe Reaper) you can hero power it to put it back in the shop and all of sudden you have a huge Foe Reaper."

Then of course all of the other silly cards like pogo, battlemaster, amalgadon.

---

So sick of dying on turn 8 in Battlegrounds. I don't know what changed to make the game so fast but I wish it would go back to how it was before the pirates update.

---

Ive only played a little bit but I always thought it was slower since they took out cannon and put rat pack to 3 since you arent gonna get blown out in the early-mid game as much

---

Yeah it's slower now than it was but it's still crazy fast compared to before pirates.

---

I only see someone dead by turn 8 in maybe half of games. Usually when something happens to me, it's just rolling defeats where I think I have an okay-ish board but I keep getting nibbled to death, never for more than 8 damage at a time, but also not winning or tying. That said, other builds can result in some very sudden and swift death, but rarely does it come that early. I got a Kalecgos on turn 7 last night after power-leveling Maiev with a guaranteed triple coming through her hero power, and right after that I started steamrolling. Didn't hit anyone for less than 20. But I also hit the nuts. (I was also taking losses along the way and down to 15 health.)

---

The magnetic thing is kind-of whatever. You could also just hold a bunch of magnetic cards in hand waiting for a foe reaper, so I guess it just makes you not die while you wait for a foe reaper. That's cool with me, that's the kind of thing a hero power should do.

Battlemaster and Amalgadon are definitely scarier. But...are they scarier than Fungalmancer Flurgl when he survives till tier 5 and finds exactly the minions he wants? Well...maybe not. Right or wrong there are heroes that are weak earlygame, but get really, really scary when they get to tier 5 and don't die. Maybe a hero could have those kinds of ineractions on tier 5 and not be completely busted. Maybe.

But I just don't see how Pogo is reasonable. It's tier 2 and relatively uncontested.

---

Lets say you get a Pogo turn 3, trade it, and sell and buy it again

3/3
8/8
15/15
24/24
35/35

Hey that has potential until the opponents either outscale it or find poison

---

I think your math is a little off there but yeah what else are you going to bounce until you get to Tier 5/6? I don't think you keep rolling on 2 until you find a pogo but basically guaranteed top 4 finish if you find one early enough.

---

Yeah I think you can feasibly power level with it tbh, ala when Pyramad gets Micro Machine

---

LiquidOshawott posted...

Lets say you get a Pogo turn 3, trade it, and sell and buy it again

3/3
8/8
15/15
24/24
35/35

By my calculations it's...

...assuming you just sell the ranom minion you get back from bob and see pogo immediately on 5 mana...

3 mana 1/1 (5 mana turn)

5 mana 3/3 (5 mana turn)

7 mana 7/7 (6 mana turn)

9 mana 13/13 (7 mana turn)

11 mana 21/21 (8 mana turn)

13 mana 31/31 (9 mana turn)

15 mana 43/43 (10 mana turn)

Overall it's a bit like investing in a golden wrath weaver. Buying and selling a demon--2 mana spent to get +4/+4, except you can only do it once per turn, but you can get more than +4/+4 after a while.

The one thing about this is that you will struggle to get 7 unit slots filled if you keep selling the random unit you get from Bob's shop. So maybe it doesn't completely steamroll the earlygame?

---

Oh I added a +1/+1 for some reason each time

I really do think this strategy is comparable to the micro machine strategy with pyramad but maybe that's just me

---

Considering you could find additional pogos along the way, I think I'd pay 15 mana for a 43/43. Just imagine how quickly your scenario changes once it's a golden pogo.

---

I just had an eventful battlegrounds match. After a terrible slide I've been on I finally got a first place, and did so in a game where Hearthstone froze on me three times, each time forcing me to close and restart the game which isn't a quick process on my computer. One was quick enough that I didn't miss anything except combat results, but I missed an entire buy phase on one of them and on another it froze after I used the discover bonus you get for tripling, so I ended up with a random minion. Sorry Floating Watcher, you didn't help my mechs.

Has anyone else had problems with Deck Tracker recently? Each time after reconnecting to battlegrounds it was no longer displaying results so I had to restart it as well, and after the third time I just left it closed. After that everything was smooth.

---

You must have been killin' it otherwise.

---

VeryInsane posted...

I really do think this strategy is comparable to the micro machine strategy with pyramad but maybe that's just me

It definitely grows a lot bigger. Like I googled "micro machine pyramad" and watched two different games of it, typically it ended up as a 20/20 on the final board, and if the game went really long it would be like 30/20.

The flip side is that this pogo definitely costs more mana. You're investing 2 mana each turn instead of 1 mana per turn with micro machine.

---

azuarc posted...

You must have been killin' it otherwise.

I finished with something along the lines of

16/19 Foe Reaper with shield/taunt
14/13 Bronze Warden
15/14 Deflect'o
8/4 Iron Sensei
5/2 Deflect'o
4/7 Egg
24/27 Harvest Golem with shield/taunt

Definitely helped that the lobby pretty much went full murlocs, and all of them went poison instead of stats outside of a single murloc that apparently got all the buffs and ended up at something like 95/110.

---

So I came across an annoying bug, the Shaman I was just playing against hit me with Devolving Missiles and I ended up with the Warlock dormant minion that buffs your hand when it wakes up. You know the sound effect dormant minions make at the start of the turn? It did that again the turn after it woke up. Then it did it again the next turn, and the next turn, and the next turn all the way until the game was over which was seven cards deep in fatigue. Something like 25 turns of that sound effect, and when I got the Priest dormant minion from my hero power it just doubled the sound effect while it was on the board.

And the cherry on top, when the Warlock one woke up my hand was just seven spells, so I didn't even get anything out of it.

---