Current Events > I don't agree with the people who say "Everybody should vote"...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Firstly it usually assumes the person is going to vote to agrees with you, which is a flawed assumption. But even ignoring that.

People who know they are ignorant shouldn't vote. If I know my vote is going to be for shallow superficial reasons, and I don't want to vote anyway, I shouldn't vote.

I'd agree with the statement "everybody who feels they have a solid informed perspective should vote." But people just voting blindly or arbitrarily don't need to vote IMO.

On my ballot I abstained on a couple minor offices that I didn't feel I had adequate knowledge to cast an informed vote on. I think this is a good system.

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Firstly it usually assumes the person is going to vote to agrees with you,

it doesn't assume that at all.

Go vote.

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Straight blue, all the time. I disagree with the Republican Party on pretty much everything. I don't care who the representative is, I'm not voting for a person that represents everything I stand against.

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I don't think abstaining is an issue, but you should at least vote.

If politicians know turnout is low they won't feel obligated to pass laws in your interest. It's part of why young people have a tendency to get fucked by politicians who bend over backwards for the boomer vote.

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I agree. Honestly I feel like someone has to be ignorant to vote for Trump.

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SandTarpit posted...

Firstly it usually assumes the person is going to vote to agrees with you,

it doesn't assume that at all.

Go vote.

No, I've often see it do that. I agree some don't. But many do.

Like I've seen a bunch of videos dunking on Trump for a while and then at the very end they say something like "be sure to get out and vote". And it's clear they wouldn't really want that if they thought the person was going to vote for Trump.

This SNL vid basically did that, but they make it pretty clear who they want you to vote for, they never say "Go vote for Biden" they just say "use your voice and use your vote"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alaen4fno20

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SandTarpit posted...

Go vote

DID YOU JUST TELL ME TO AGREE WITH YOU?

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If you're watching a video that's anti Trump it's a reasonable assumption. That seems like a weird thing to be picky about.

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Saying that everybody should vote is shorthand for saying that everybody should be an active participant in the process. That includes taking the responsibility of making yourself informed.

I get this in most cases. But when one guy is letting a disease run through the country while basically saying "it is what it is, I don't care", I'd say you know enough.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

I don't think abstaining is an issue, but you should at least vote.

If politicians know turnout is low they won't feel obligated to pass laws in your interest. It's part of why young people have a tendency to get fucked by politicians who bend over backwards for the boomer vote.

But an ignorant vote is just as likely to support the person who fucks over people anyway, maybe even moreso.

IMO shallow votes can't fight bad policy because they aren't aware of policy.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

If you're watching a video that's anti Trump it's a reasonable assumption. That seems like a weird thing to be picky about.

It's SNL, not MSNBC. Watching it doesn't mean you will necessarily vote for Biden, so that's the context in which I'm saying that the "go vote" command seems to assume you will vote the way they want, even when that isn't necessarily an accurate assumption.

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Tenlaar posted...

Saying that everybody should vote is shorthand for saying that everybody should be an active participant in the process. That includes taking the responsibility of making yourself informed.

Well that would be good advice. But I don't think most people take it that way.

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TC is right. When people clearly favor one politician over the other and then adamantly implore people to vote, the subtext is, "vote for the obviously superior candidate"

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joe40001 posted...

It's SNL, not MSNBC. Watching it doesn't mean you will necessarily vote for Biden, so that's the context in which I'm saying that the "go vote" command seems to assume you will vote the way they want, even when that isn't necessarily an accurate assumption.

If more than 50% of viewers vote for Biden it's still worth it, viewing things from this cynical perspective. They're not being graded.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

If more than 50% of viewers vote for Biden it's still worth it, viewing things from this cynical perspective. They're not being graded.

Yeah, I get that logic. But it does feel weird when you know they aren't sincerely imploring the Trump voters to vote.

They are saying "everybody get out and vote" but what they really mean is "everybody listening to this should get out and vote because we think a good majority of the people listening to this would vote for Biden. Yes, it would be ideal if only the people listening to this who would vote for Biden would vote and the others would not. We really would prefer Trump get less votes, but we can't really tell anybody to not vote. It's not that we want Trump voters explicitly disenfranchised, but we would prefer if they just not vote because we know they are wrong. But there is no way to respect democracy and make this demand so instead we will act like we are happy to have the Trump votes too when really we aren't."

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joe40001 posted...

But an ignorant vote is just as likely to support the person who fucks over people anyway, maybe even moreso.

IMO shallow votes can't fight bad policy because they aren't aware of policy.

This.

Uninformed votes are counterintuitive to democracy. People who insist that every single person should vote usually say so because either they hold voting in some moral high ground for themselves, or because like TC said, they secretly want you to vote for the same things they do.

The responses in this thread are a great example lol.

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LostForest posted...

This.

Uninformed votes are counterintuitive to democracy. People who insist that every single person should vote usually say so because either they hold voting in some moral high ground for themselves, or because like TC said, they secretly want you to vote for the same things they do.

The responses in this thread are a great example lol.

Lmao pretty much.

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We're all uninformed votes. You're not some genius or anything, LostForest. Get over yourself.

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SandTarpit posted...

We're all uninformed votes. You're not some genius or anything, LostForest. Get over yourself.

Where do you get that we're all uninformed voters?

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SandTarpit posted...

We're all uninformed votes. You're not some genius or anything, LostForest. Get over yourself.

What do you define as uninformed voting?

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the0rebirth posted...

Where do you get that we're all uninformed voters?

Well, unless you're all-knowing...

Evening_Dragon posted...

What do you define as uninformed voting?

Voting based on personal interests or feelings on matters. Raising taxes on the rich, for example

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SandTarpit posted...

Voting based on personal interests or feelings on matters. Raising taxes on the rich, for example

Then we are not all uninformed voters.

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LostForest posted...

Uninformed votes are counterintuitive to democracy. People who insist that every single person should vote usually say so because either they hold voting in some moral high ground for themselves, or because like TC said, they secretly want you to vote for the same things they do.

Or maybe they realize a healthy democracy requires high levels of voter participation

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Evening_Dragon posted...

Then we are not all uninformed voters.

What do you mean? What are you 100% certain about on matters, and the other side is just flat-out wrong?

As Obi-Wan said once...You're going to find that many truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

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October 2020 5 karma account actually trying to make an argument that only omnipotent beings can be informed voters.

SandTarpit posted...

What do you mean? What are you 100% certain about on matters, and the other side is just flat-out wrong?

As Obi-Wan said once...You're going to find that many truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

Who said I was 100% certain? You assign too many personal variables to simple definitions.

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Frolex posted...

Or maybe they realize a healthy democracy requires high levels of voter participation

Then people should first be properly educated as to make informed decisions that won't bite them in the ass later.

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the0rebirth posted...

Then we should first educate them to make informed decisions that won't bite them in the ass later.

Sure. Everyone should still vote

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I am fine witb someone choosing not to vote.

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Frolex posted...

Sure. Everyone should still vote

Why?

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the0rebirth posted...

Why?

Frolex posted...

a healthy democracy requires high levels of voter participation

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the0rebirth posted...

Why?

Because we are a Democracy, and voting is vital to being a citizen. Whether college educated or homeless...?

Aren't you a Liberal?

Why am I explaining unalienable rights to you?

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Voting is gambling

So I don't vote
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I think everyone should vote. High voter turnout is good for democracy.

The idea that people who don't vote with the level of information you would like just reminds me of tests they used to make black people take in order to vote.

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Could you please elaborate, @Frolex ? Because I don't see the value of voting from a place of ignorance.

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CableZL posted...

I think everyone should vote. High voter turnout is good for democracy.

The idea that people who don't vote with the level of information you would like just reminds me of tests they used to make black people take in order to vote.

Those tests were made so that they could always be interpreted to be failed regardless of answer.

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CableZL posted...

I think everyone should vote. High voter turnout is good for democracy.

The idea that people who don't vote with the level of information you would like just reminds me of tests they used to make black people take in order to vote.

Correct. Thank you for being an actual Liberal.


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the0rebirth posted...

Could you please elaborate, @Frolex ? Because I don't see the value of voting from a place of ignorance.

who gets to decide which voters are too ignorant to be represented democratically?

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Frolex posted...

who gets to decide which voters are too ignorant to be represented democratically?

the0rebirth, apparently. He is the arbiter of knowledge: he will tell each citizen whether they are able to vote or not.

Like an American Sorting Hat.

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Frolex posted...

who gets to decide which voters are too ignorant to be represented democratically?

No one said the right should be taken away.

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Frolex posted...

who gets to decide which voters are too ignorant to be represented democratically?

This isn't about a theoretical mandate on who should and shouldn't have the right to vote. This is about the idea that everyone, no matter how uninformed they are, should still go out and vote. I don't see the value in encouraging that.

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SandTarpit posted...

Firstly it usually assumes the person is going to vote to agrees with you,

it doesn't assume that at all.

Go vote.

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Evening_Dragon posted...

No one said the right should be taken away.

great. they should all be represented

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SandTarpit posted...

the0rebirth, apparently. He is the arbiter of knowledge: he will tell each citizen whether they are able to vote or not.

Like an American Sorting Hat.

*rolls eyes* If you're not going to argue in good faith, then I'm not going to acknowledge your replies. Deal?

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Frolex posted...

great. they should all be represented

Now you're just being disingenuous.

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the0rebirth posted...

This isn't about a theoretical mandate on who should and shouldn't have the right to vote. This is about the idea that everyone, no matter how uninformed they are, should still go out and vote. I don't see the value in encouraging that.

Then you don't see the value in democracy.

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Evening_Dragon posted...

Now you're just being disingenuous.

why?

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I am arguing in really, really good faith. I'm arguing on the correct side of history: against poll taxes, and literacy tests, and education tests.

You're the one arguing in bullshit faith, buddy. You're actually, genuinely arguing that people need a certain level of intelligence and knowledge to vote

*Rolls eyes*

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Frolex posted...

why?

Good question. Why are you being disingenuous?

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