Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 340: Back That AZ Up

(+) Yeah! (+)

This guy, however, is my hero and spirit animal

https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324604041180098561
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324606259878907905

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we might disagree on the specifics but we're all working towards improving america. arguing differently is unamerican

when a foreign country invades the nation, our military doesn't only protect the people that voted for the current leader

trump actively worked to harm those that voted against him. that is unamerican. no president should do that

i hope you can agree

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Very cool of Cyclo to blame a woman for shit that her husband did

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fuming posted...

someone who was good friends with Strom Thurmond

Strom Thurmond! Drink!

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banananor posted...

we might disagree on the specifics but we're all working towards improving america. arguing differently is unamerican

when a foreign country invades the nation, our military doesn't only protect the people that voted for the current leader

trump actively worked to harm those that voted against him. that is unamerican. no president should do that

i hope you can agree

Generally agree on the first two. What things has Trump done to harm people who voted against him? I mean beyond threatening to do it.

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2020 and somebody is still harping on "basket of deplorables" without the context.

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So how many other people here have family members that will now forever believe this election was rigged?

I have absolutely no hope for the future of this country. Not in the short term anyway.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Very cool of Cyclo to blame a woman for shit that her husband did

someone who defended their cheating husband who abused his authority with another woman and someone who is accused of using his authority to abuse another woman

I guess if you want to make stuff up we can do this real quick.

Hes pretty clearly not blaming her for what Bill did, hes blaming her for defending Bill!

Didnt Hillary literally accuse Monica of seducing Bill? Lolll

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StealThisSheen posted...

2020 and somebody is still harping on "basket of deplorables" without the context.

I didn't bring it up, it was related to what people were discussing. Nor does the context change anything I said.

and not sure why people keep calling me 'cyclo', or why anyone is accusing me of blaming Hillary for what Bill did, just for defending it and attacking his accusers, which is the opposite of feminist. I have told multiple people in this topic who I am, and posted on twitter several of you have seen, why I am on a new account.

sigh

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Wait...who are you again?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I guess if you want to make stuff up we can do this real quick.

Hes pretty clearly not blaming her for what Bill did, hes blaming her for defending Bill!

Didnt Hillary literally accuse Monica of seducing Bill? Lolll

I'm pretty sure she backed off of that position. You know I'm as harsh a critic of Hillary as anyone, but that's a very normal reaction to finding out your partner is cheating on you.

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https://twitter.com/alissacaliente/status/1324569673082507264?s=09

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

To me, this says there are anti-Trump voters who picked Biden and went GOP down ballot.

uh...not great!

Dude, every single pro-Trump Republican is calling Joe Biden an Evil Socialist right now.

The fix isnt for progressives to work on their PR, its for the Democrats to prove their government programs actually help the average American and never back away from that message.

Its just like the common logic that a politician can never admit or apologize for something bad because it makes the bad reality, every time Democrats hem and haw and hedge about progressive causes they make another Dems = evil socialists headline.

I really think you're overestimating the American public. As much as you think it doesn't go far enough, the ACA was a massive piece of progressive legislation that the Democratic Party had to expend ALL political capital just to get it passed. And what was the reward? The Democrats lost 63 House seats and control of the House for the rest of Obama's term, and after getting a filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate, at the first possible opportunity, they lost a Senate seat in MASSACHUSETTS, and then lost 6 more Senate seats in the 2010 election (including one in ILLINOIS).

People love to shit on the Dems for neglecting down ballot races after Obama won in 2008, but the ACA was something the Congressional Dems FOUGHT FOR, and by all measures, it bit them in the ass in a massive way. It doesn't matter how good it is (for example, Kentucky loves Kynect), because all the GOP needs to do is say "Obamacare", and suddenly that policy is HATED by half the country. Hell, Trump can run on repealing it (which he failed to do for four years), offer no replacement plan, and he's still going to finish this election with over 70 million votes.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Wait...who are you again?

The "hot topic" feature is not fun
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red sox 777 posted...

I'm pretty sure she backed off of that position. You know I'm as harsh a critic of Hillary as anyone, but that's a very normal reaction to finding out your partner is cheating on you.

A very normal reaction for Hillary is definitely lying and blaming someone else, yes.

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Progressives need to work on their PR.

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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324612560646262785?s=21

democrats are gonna end life
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UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/alissacaliente/status/1324569673082507264?s=09

Religious fervor is nothing new in America. Half the voting population denying reality about an election is.

Well, I'll wait until polls come out asking Republicans if they think the election was rigged before I use "half" again, but I'm not optimistic.

I went on facebook for the memes...it was a mistake.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Wait...who are you again?

I PM'd you! just realized that one of the previous persons I messaged has blocked me (presumably for pointing out their lie that they have been asking who I am for the last month when my account is only days old) so that's nice.

fuming posted...

I PM'd you! just realized that one of the previous persons I messaged has blocked me (presumably for pointing out their lie that they have been asking who I am for the last month when my account is only days old) so that's nice.

can you pm me too? Im curious because I was running on the assumption you were cyclo when I replied to you on Twitter.
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red sox 777 posted...

I've only heard of two of those people, and I was speaking about non-politicians. That said, did these politicians ever call out their co-partisans on the left for making such statements? Did other Democrats?

What statements are you referring to? Random comments online? Of course public figures aren't responding to those. When it comes to more prominent incidents, I have plenty of examples.

Kathy Griffin was condemned by left moderates, including politicians, for that picture with Trump's head. Michelle Wolf was heavily criticized by left moderates for her speech at the White House Correspondent's dinner.

I've read articles by Kelefa Sanneh criticizing White Fragility and by Zadie Smith (admittedly not an American, but published in an American magazine) debating attacks on cultural appropriation.

There was an open letter published in Harper's this summer and signed by numerous intellectuals, many of them moderate/liberal criticizing the rise in cancel culture online.

This is all rather scattershot, but without having any actual examples to go off of, I'm just doing what I have off the top of my head.


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He is Bernie's alt.

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oh pm me too

where is cyclo these days

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fuming posted...

I PM'd you! just realized that one of the previous persons I messaged has blocked me (presumably for pointing out their lie that they have been asking who I am for the last month when my account is only days old) so that's nice.

You dont seem to want it known so I wont tell, but for what its worth, I literally thought your old account was also Cyclo lol

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we all just really want Cyclo to be here

whenever hes not on screen were asking wheres Cyclo?
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it isn't that I didn't want it known, just that my account has limited messages because it is new, but since it is such a big issue I am forced to post about it anyway. (i am GG)

Inviso posted...

I really think you're overestimating the American public. As much as you think it doesn't go far enough, the ACA was a massive piece of progressive legislation that the Democratic Party had to expend ALL political capital just to get it passed. And what was the reward? The Democrats lost 63 House seats and control of the House for the rest of Obama's term, and after getting a filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate, at the first possible opportunity, they lost a Senate seat in MASSACHUSETTS, and then lost 6 more Senate seats in the 2010 election (including one in ILLINOIS).

People love to shit on the Dems for neglecting down ballot races after Obama won in 2008, but the ACA was something the Congressional Dems FOUGHT FOR, and by all measures, it bit them in the ass in a massive way. It doesn't matter how good it is (for example, Kentucky loves Kynect), because all the GOP needs to do is say "Obamacare", and suddenly that policy is HATED by half the country. Hell, Trump can run on repealing it (which he failed to do for four years), offer no replacement plan, and he's still going to finish this election with over 70 million votes.

Despite the GOP's sabotage, the preexisting conditions bit of the ACA is very popular across party lines, to the point where Republicans were too afraid to repeal the ACA outright and now have to go around back through the courts to do so. Basically the idea should be to keep doing these very popular things, and to attach popular things to things that WILL become popular and need time for people to come around on, and build goodwill.

Obamacare also had a terrible rollout, which was awful PR. Going back to 2018, the Dems ran on healthcare and won, but didn't actually do anything with it. You and I know why this is, but voters don't care about stupid excuses like "our government is a nightmare of obstructionism specifically designed to prevent progress." If you don't help them, they'll drop you. Democrats don't need analysis and meticulously crafted plans, they need a god damn PR firm.

For all his faults, Trump understands the value of good PR. Literally everything he does is for optics. Even when he tried to use his office to undermine his political opponents, he didn't want Ukraine to actually investigate Joe Biden. That doesn't matter, he wanted them to announce an investigation so he'd look good!

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Going back to 2018, the Dems ran on healthcare and won, but didn't actually do anything with it.

I mean...

....

........

...how?


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Did the Dems run on healthcare, or did they run on checking Trump's power? Because a lot of those flipped seats were moderates.

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Inviso posted...

Did the Dems run on healthcare, or did they run on checking Trump's power? Because a lot of those flipped seats were moderates.

Both, the thing is that they had a pretty unified vision. Republicans are trying to take your healthcare, we'll protect it and make it better.

Suprak the Stud posted...

........

...how?

bruh literally my next point is that it doesn't fucking matter that they can't, voters DO NOT CARE about you if they don't think you're helping them

The GOP manages to get votes while actively fucking their voters over, the Democrats also need to learn how to spin doing nothing positively, because the competition is incredible at it

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Yesmar_ posted...

What statements are you referring to? Random comments online? Of course public figures aren't responding to those. When it comes to more prominent incidents, I have plenty of examples.

Kathy Griffin was condemned by left moderates, including politicians, for that picture with Trump's head. Michelle Wolf was heavily criticized by left moderates for her speech at the White House Correspondent's dinner.

I've read articles by Kelefa Sanneh criticizing White Fragility and by Zadie Smith (admittedly not an American, but published in an American magazine) debating attacks on cultural appropriation.

There was an open letter published in Harper's this summer and signed by numerous intellectuals, many of them moderate/liberal criticizing the rise in cancel culture online.

This is all rather scattershot, but without having any actual examples to go off of, I'm just doing what I have off the top of my head.

Well, if we're expanding it to the whole universe of people on the left, sure, some people have said some nice things. I do apologize if my speaking in generalities results in a misunderstanding that I am talking about literally everyone. I am not saying that. I am talking about a portion of people on the left, whose presence I think is large enough to make an impact on the world. I use "people" as a shorthand for "enough people with enough influence to make a meaningful impact."

I am not talking about people being too mean to Trump. Trump has a very thick skin and can handle it; moreover, he expressly invites it by being the troll-in-chief of the country. I actually find it dismaying that so many people will come to Trump's defense when he gets insulted in an over the top way they won't do the same for, say, a factory worker.

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Down to 665 in Georgia.

7,658 remaining.

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red sox 777 posted...

Trump has a very thick skin and can handle it

actually laughed out loud at this one

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Both, the thing is that they had a pretty unified vision. Republicans are trying to take your healthcare, we'll protect it and make it better.

bruh literally my next point is that it doesn't fucking matter that they can't, voters DO NOT CARE about you if they don't think you're helping them

The GOP manages to get votes while actively fucking their voters over, the Democrats also need to learn how to spin doing nothing positively, because the competition is incredible at it

bruh then blame republicans and elect more democrats if you want them to fucking do something.

Like I get it but I'm not going to blame the democrats because people are morons. They passed COVID relief like seven months ago, which is wildly popular, and the senate sat on it forever. That isn't the democrats fault, either. Blame republicans. Blame democrats when they suck, but I'm not blaming them when Mitch holds the senate and doesn't want to do anything.

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That last GA Update was an 816 vote cut by Biden, BTW.

GA is over.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Down to 665 in Georgia.

7,658 remaining.

Next Clayton batch should do it.

I didn't want to sleep tonight anyway!

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LordoftheMorons posted...

actually laughed out loud at this one

He does have a thicc skin. Maybe it was a typo.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

That last GA Update was an 816 vote cut by Biden, BTW.

GA is over.

It really depends on what is left in the final group not included in this.

It is provisionals, which typically sway heavily democrat but the prognosticators seem a bit less certain because these are day of which has been leaning more republican. Plus whatever military ballots weren't included or received until just now. So it is a weird batch and it is hard to tell who has an advantage there.

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Related to "how were Democrats supposed to do anything with only the House" is that Democrats insist on playing by the rules, which is another way they deliberately handicap themselves. They gotta start playing hardball.

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https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1324551698535354368?s=20

(That's what I'm basing that on, fwiw)

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Related to "how were Democrats supposed to do anything with only the House" is that Democrats insist on playing by the rules, which is another way they deliberately handicap themselves. They gotta start playing hardball.

This makes no sense legislatively when they don't hold the presidency. They can't magically do anything at the federal level.

Again, place the blame where it really belongs.

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"mysterious ballots discovered at 4 in the morning"

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It's so weird to think that if AZ, GA, and PA go Biden which it cautiously looks like they will... my pre-Election Day map will have been 48/50 with misses only on Florida (which honestly I started feeling really bad about in the 36ish hours after I posted it but before Election Day but I didn't want to make more modifications), NC (which was at least quite close), and ME-2 (which I specifically called out as the most likely place to go Trump if he overperformed my map's prediction)

Because it sure doesn't feel that way (that I was actually pretty close) still.

Senate and House though blargh.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

bruh then blame republicans and elect more democrats if you want them to fucking do something.

Like I get it but I'm not going to blame the democrats because people are morons. They passed COVID relief like seven months ago, which is wildly popular, and the senate sat on it forever. That isn't the democrats fault, either. Blame republicans. Blame democrats when they suck, but I'm not blaming them when Mitch holds the senate and doesn't want to do anything.

I do blame Republicans for this!

I'm blaming Democrats for different reasons: they also know people are morons, they also know it's Republican's fault, but they - the Democrats themselves - SUCK at getting people to vote for them, despite their money, influence, and power. THAT is their fault. After 2018 they haven't capitalized on it at all, and I think it's fair to call them out for that.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

This makes no sense legislatively when they don't hold the presidency. They can't magically do anything at the federal level.

Again, place the blame where it really belongs.

I think the point is that thered be more Dems in office if theyd actually promise people things they want and then standby them when some Republican shmuck tells you its bad.

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I mean...if you want to be super optimistic no one has any clue what is left in that NC batch. Could be anything. It could even be a boat!

That's like 95% Trump, but not 100%.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I do blame Republicans for this!

I'm blaming Democrats for different reasons: they also know people are morons, they also know it's Republican's fault, but they - the Democrats themselves - SUCK at getting people to vote for them, despite their money, influence, and power. THAT is their fault. After 2018 they haven't capitalized on it at all, and I think it's fair to call them out for that.

Oh ok cool.

Forgive me then we actually agree on everything!

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Suprak the Stud posted...

This makes no sense legislatively when they don't hold the presidency. They can't magically do anything at the federal level.

Again, place the blame where it really belongs.

Look your mistake here is thinking that not having total power means they don't have any power.

Off the top of my head, they waffled on the Mueller Report, they capitulate to Republicans to avoid government shutdowns, and during impeachment proceedings they did not even try at any point to have Trump's accomplices arrested for contempt of congress which they would have been well within their rights to do! They're just scared of looking divisive, which is a separate issue. They still have powers.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Look your mistake here is thinking that not having total power means they don't have any power.

Off the top of my head, they waffled on the Mueller Report, they capitulate to Republicans to avoid government shutdowns, and during impeachment proceedings they did not even try at any point to have Trump's accomplices arrested for contempt of congress which they would have been well within their rights to do! They're just scared of looking divisive, which is a separate issue. They still have powers.

Theres also we have many arrows in our quiver about ACB, and then she skated comfortably to the Supreme Court, and in fact the Republicans were complimented for their handling of it lol


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