Poll of the Day > LA Mayor to 'Criminalize' Homeless Behavior/Habits...

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/la-mayor-eric-garcetti-signs-032041623.html

Think its a good way to end/curb this Social Ill on Society?

Garcetti is a piece of shit

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Why fix homelessness when you can just make it illegal instead?

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I mean, how illegal are they making it, like, you spend a night in jail and get food and drink while there illegal? What are they gonna do, fine them?

Seriously how do they make it actually negatively impact the homeless, and what are they gonna do if the thousands of homeless just ignore it?

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"you don't get it, the REAL victims of homelessness are the people who have to see the homeless."

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Dear homeless, if you sleep on the sidewalk or near underpasses we are going to punish you by making you sleep inside a building on an actual bed and giving you hot food, entertainment, easy access to an actual bathroom and finally a blanket!!

Take that you evil homeless people!!

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wolfy42 posted...

I mean, how illegal are they making it, like, you spend a night in jail and get food and drink while there illegal? What are they gonna do, fine them?

Seriously how do they make it actually negatively impact the homeless, and what are they gonna do if the thousands of homeless just ignore it?

If most other anti-homeless legislation is anything to go on, they'll be fined, obviously never pay that fine, spend a night or two in jail for missing their court date for not paying said fine, then pick up where they left off when they get out and repeat the cycle again. Periodically, if too many homeless people are gathering in one spot, you'll see large police raids to disperse them, at which point they'll go somewhere else.

The end result of this, of course, is a whole lot of money spent on police and legal resources with absolutely nothing to show for it and a homeless population that will never never have the credit rating they need to rent a place of their own (since those missed fines destroy it). But hey, at least some voters might not have to look at quite as many homeless people. That's gotta count for something, right?

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Clench281 posted...

"you don't get it, the REAL victims of homelessness are the people who have to see the homeless."

yeah, just let them camp outside your houses, shit everywhere, start fires, start fights, etc...
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What do they realistically expect these people to do

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

yeah, just let them camp outside your houses, shit everywhere, start fires, start fights, etc...

I lived literally next door to a homeless encampment for two years. They are generally nice people because--shocker--they are people. I've had more problems with my housed neighbors than my unhoused.

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adjl posted...

If most other anti-homeless legislation is anything to go on, they'll be fined, obviously never pay that fine, spend a night or two in jail for missing their court date for not paying said fine, then pick up where they left off when they get out and repeat the cycle again. Periodically, if too many homeless people are gathering in one spot, you'll see large police raids to disperse them, at which point they'll go somewhere else.

The end result of this, of course, is a whole lot of money spent on police and legal resources with absolutely nothing to show for it and a homeless population that will never never have the credit rating they need to rent a place of their own (since those missed fines destroy it). But hey, at least some voters might not have to look at quite as many homeless people. That's gotta count for something, right?

Bingo.

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Mead posted...

What do they realistically expect these people to do

Realism was purposely left out of the equation. Its the same magical reasoning that assumes climate change will be fixed by the return of our lord and savior Jesus Christ on judgement day.

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Build them some cheap homes somewhere. Problem solved.

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But then how can we tell real people apart from the homeless?

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Muscles posted...

But then how can we tell real people apart from the homeless?

we can dye them

Im thinking Lilac

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Given the homelessness situation in Los Angeles, who is this ordinance truly meant to punish? I have heard of folks who are homeless but not jobless, for various reasons. But I doubt said ordinance is meant to target those with an income and unable to find affordable housing.

EDIT: I have read/heard of the homeless not wanting to seek homeless shelters for whatever reason. Not feeling safe, stuff getting stolen, etc. But I still doubt said ordinance is meant to encourage folks to seek whatever social programs that exist, assuming said program is not overwhelmed.

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Muscles posted...

But then how can we tell real people apart from the homeless?

Homeless people are real people???
W
T
F


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InfestedAdam posted...

But I doubt said ordinance is meant to target those with an income and unable to find affordable housing.

it is meant to target all homeless that are visible to the general public

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Jen0125 posted...

Homeless people are real people???
W
T
F

I thought it was obvious that I was joking, Mead understood

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Muscles posted...

I thought it was obvious that I was joking, Mead understood

Honestly you say really dumb shit all the time so I never assume you're making jokes. You say some seriously ignorant things.


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Criminalising dumping their shit in the middle of the street, not homelessness. Any homeless person worthy of any respect doesn't make themself a public nuisance, it's not hard.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Any homeless person worthy of any respect

fuck you dude

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Mead posted...

Build them some cheap homes somewhere. Problem solved.

Itll be a metric fuck ton cheaper than the court costs theyll never be able to pay.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Criminalising dumping their shit in the middle of the street, not homelessness. Any homeless person worthy of any respect doesn't make themself a public nuisance, it's not hard.

eat shit

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Mead posted...

it is meant to target all homeless that are visible to the general public

So an attempt at sweeping stuff under the rug or out of sight, out of mind mentality?

I live in Los Angeles County and about 10-15 miles from Downtown Los Angeles. I am willing to support programs to help the homeless but I am truly stump on what would really make a difference regarding said issue. I have read/heard stories from former street dwellers about how mental issues are a major thing and said people must want to seek help instead of help being given/forced on them.

I have read meaningful and detailed explanation from others on what probably needs to be done but I still cannot help but feel a lot of these good ideas are only ever good on paper. Even then, I feel we still gotta try.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Criminalising dumping their shit in the middle of the street, not homelessness. Any homeless person worthy of any respect doesn't make themself a public nuisance, it's not hard.

You are a bad person

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adjl posted...

Why fix homelessness when you can just make it illegal instead?

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Every place that they have tried programs of just giving homeless people cheap housing, things have turned out much better.

Turns out that by far the biggest challenge that homeless people face is HOMELESSNESS. It can be tough enough to get things done in life when you have a place to recharge and be alone and rest. Imagine trying to get things in your life done and see doctors for your health while you are stuck living on the street. Its really not feasible, there are too many challenges to just survive, how are they ever supposed to get their life together somewhat?

Im not saying there are perfect solutions for the problems of the world but things like guaranteed basic housing and a modest UBI would alleviate so many problems in America and we are more than wealthy enough as a country to make it happen.

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adjl posted...

Why fix homelessness when you can just make it illegal instead?

That is a fix, the same as curbing other criminal conduct.

adjl posted...

If most other anti-homeless legislation is anything to go on, they'll be fined, obviously never pay that fine, spend a night or two in jail for missing their court date for not paying said fine, then pick up where they left off when they get out and repeat the cycle again. Periodically, if too many homeless people are gathering in one spot, you'll see large police raids to disperse them, at which point they'll go somewhere else.

The end result of this, of course, is a whole lot of money spent on police and legal resources with absolutely nothing to show for it and a homeless population that will never never have the credit rating they need to rent a place of their own (since those missed fines destroy it). But hey, at least some voters might not have to look at quite as many homeless people. That's gotta count for something, right?

Why should it be any different than the rest of the criminal justice system? >_>

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Mead posted...

What do they realistically expect these people to do

Leave, well more like give protection to people harassing them into leaving.

I gave a mini-van to a friend (ex-roomate) who was homeless for awhile and had no where to live. He went to the LA area (his brother was near there) and said that it was very hard to sleep in the van over night there, because the police would come by and force you to move. There is a big homeless problem there, but it seems like they are making life difficult even for people who are not disrupting things.

In LA and The Bay Area etc, many people live in cars/vans etc because rent is so high, even while working. Live in a Van for $0 a month or pay over $2000 a month for a small 1 bedroom. Even if your making a salary of 30k+ a year, it's very tempting to live in a van there vs paying so much for rent.

The solution is simple, affordable housing. Make it available. I know, if affordable housing is available won't it just fill up and more and more people will move into the area and be homeless again?

Maybe if you just made a small amount, but go JAPAN on the problem and build TONS of VERY SMALL but VERY CHEAP affordable housing. Flats that are simply 1 room, no kitchen, no bathroom, simple room. Shared bathrooms on each floor, perhaps one for every 10 rooms (with 2-3 actual toilets, and 1 shower (probably have a sign up sheet for shower times).

Make each such building have a few thousand freaking rooms and rent em for CHEAP (Like $200/month + utilities). Internet can be shared between multiple rooms easily as well (so each pays like $5 for internet access).

Build a bunch of the Mofos so that every freaking US citizen can at least have a roof over their head.

If your homless, you get a FREE 6 months to stay there before having to pay any rent at all. Gives you a chance to get on your feat and start making some income.

IF your on SSI etc, you can easily afford to live there, eat, and pay for medications.

SIMPLE solution, wouldn't cost that much (much less than is being spent on police/jails/shelters etc for homeless right now). It would also help reduce the FREAKING INSANE RENTAL COSTS for the rest of us, since if you can rent a freaking room for $200, a 1 bedroom will probably no longer be $2000+.

At least that would do something positive. It wouldn't solve the entire problem (since some homeless are there because of mental issues etc), but it would be a good start.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Criminalising dumping their s*** in the middle of the street, not homelessness.

So... make it illegal for homeless people to own more than they can carry on their person at all times. Got it.

InfestedAdam posted...

I live in Los Angeles County and about 10-15 miles from Downtown Los Angeles. I am willing to support programs to help the homeless but I am truly stump on what would really make a difference regarding said issue. I have read/heard stories from former street dwellers about how mental issues are a major thing and said people must want to seek help instead of help being given/forced on them.

I have read meaningful and detailed explanation from others on what probably needs to be done but I still cannot help but feel a lot of these good ideas are only ever good on paper. Even then, I feel we still gotta try.

Look into what Medicine Hat, Alberta did. To oversimplify it, they pretty much just gave every homeless person a home. They then immediately proceeded to also offer whatever supports were needed (since it's so often much more complex than just "I can't afford a home), along with routinely checking up on people to make sure things were on the right track to get their lives in order. It's a little more nuanced than that, but the bottom line is that they've successfully eradicated chronic homelessness and the vast majority of the people they've gotten off the streets that haven't already graduated from the program are well on track to do so. Even better, they've saved money doing it, because it's actually cheaper to just pay for a barebones apartment for somebody than to pay cops to chase them around indefinitely and for emergency medical care on a regular basis. Who knew?

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Zeus posted...

That is a fix, the same as curbing other criminal conduct.

Does making homelessness illegal stop people from being homeless? Has anyone in the history of ever even once said "you know, I was going to be homeless today, but that would be illegal, so I don't think I will"? No? Then it's not a fix.

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I'd expand on the above btw. Perhaps give EVERY tenant 6 free months, homless or not, which they can use at will (either at start, or later in case they loose a job/get sick etc) that way they are not kicked out on the street if something happens.

Also not all need to be that extreme, build those first, so EVERYONE can have a place, so focus on making as many as you can, until you start seeing vacancies, so some rooms are not being used.

THEN start building more full sized apartment complexes but still at affordable prices. Upgrades from the base units above (similar to some in Japan) but still extremely cheap to rent. These would have their own bathrooms (biggest deal) and possibly a small kitchen, similar to Studio apartments.

If you look for studio apartments in most areas you'll see there are almost none available, too much demand for them. So make a bunch in each area and rent em for double the other cost (so about $400 a month). With utilities/internet bringing that up to $500, that is STILL way within the means of someone on base SSI (which is around $1000 a month btw).

Not only would this save money on tons of other resources that are being used right now (jail, medical expenses for people using ER due to being homeless, police efforts and city efforts to clean up after homlessness etc), but it would, eventually, MAKE money for the government because they don't have to pay taxes etc, so all the "rent" is pure profit (other then maintanence). It may take a few years to pay for the initial cost of building it, but after that, it would actually generate a profit.

That would solve the homeless problem (also offer tons of jobs while doing it), possibly within the next 3-5 years.

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adjl posted...

So... make it illegal for homeless people to own more than they can carry on their person at all times. Got it.

Nah, just not dumping it in the road. Keep your shit out of sight and you're not running foul of the law.

I'm enjoying the people who've never been homeless thinking they can speak on the state of homeless people and virtue signaling their arses off because they're so damn ignorant.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Nah, just not dumping it in the road. Keep your s*** out of sight and you're not running foul of the law.

The legislation in question is pretty explicitly saying that they can't leave their stuff anywhere on any public property, so...

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Criminalising dumping their shit in the middle of the street, not homelessness. Any homeless person worthy of any respect doesn't make themself a public nuisance, it's not hard.

You are worse than the trash they dump.

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I'll never understand punishing the homeless, for being homeless.

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Lil_Bit83 posted...

I'll never understand punishing the homeless, for being homeless.

You should. Because once they're gone, you're next.

It's NIMBYism.

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Lil_Bit83 posted...

I'll never understand punishing the homeless, for being homeless.

There's a very widespread attitude that anyone that is homeless is homeless entirely because of their own failures, and therefore they deserve whatever suffering they're experiencing. There's also a widespread attitude that they should experience that suffering somewhere where people who aren't homeless don't have to see, because being reminded that people are on the streets is upsetting to people that would prefer to ignore society's problems. Punishing them for being homeless is just a part of that attitude. People would rather see homeless people suffer for daring to tarnish their view of the world around them than actually solve the problems.

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adjl posted...

The legislation in question is pretty explicitly saying that they can't leave their stuff anywhere on any public property, so...

There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with that.

adjl posted...

The legislation in question is pretty explicitly saying that they can't leave their stuff anywhere on any public property, so...

It explicitly says "public right of way", which is the paths the public take, not just any public land i.e. if you're out of the way as you're supposed to be, there's no problem. This is what most homeless do, the ones that don't are the degenerates who make a good living off guilting you.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It explicitly says "public right of way", which is the paths the public take, not just any public land i.e. if you're out of the way as you're supposed to be, there's no problem. This is what most homeless do, the ones that don't are the degenerates who make a good living off guilting you.

yes, but have you considered shutting the fuck up?

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adjl posted...

There's also a widespread attitude that they should experience that suffering somewhere where people who aren't homeless don't have to see, because being reminded that people are on the streets is upsetting to people that would prefer to ignore society's problems.

It's as though distasteful things don't need to be on display. We know pigs need to be slaughtered for bacon, but we don't allow open air abattoirs in the middle of the street as it's unsightly and unnecessary.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It's as though distasteful things don't need to be on display. We know pigs need to be slaughtered for bacon, but we don't allow open air abattoirs in the middle of the street as it's unsightly and unnecessary.

wow this is the stupidest shit i've read in literally my entire life and i am sincerely not exaggerating wow

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EvilMegas posted...

You are worse than the trash they dump.

let them camp on your lawn then.
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I'd let homeless people camp in my yard if it was more developed in the back. Why not?

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Leave it to Cali's politicians to find some backwards thing they can do that really only hurts their tax paying constituents.

"Hey, we have identified a problem."
"Oh good. We were worried you didn't get the billion memos in the last decade alone."
"So we are going to fix it . . . by doing the exact opposite."
"...wat"

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

let them camp on your lawn then.

Lawns are stupid wastes of water, even more so in California

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Clench281 posted...

Lawns are stupid wastes of water, even more so in California

on the plus side, they won't burn for days and days

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