Board 8 > What's the hardest optional non secret/super boss you can think of. (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

For me, Ive been thinking about this for some days now, and its really difficult for me not to say Diablos from FF VIII. Hes a fast as hell murder machine that rips just rips through your team over and over once you get that lamp from Cid after the SeeD exam.

Gades from Lufia 2 if he counts.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Gades from Lufia 2 if he counts.

You would have to explain to me why it doesnt.

If you play cards and make tornado with the sandworm cards you can junction tornado to Squall's elemental attack and beat Diabolos easily.

My pick is fighting Fire Man as Oil Man in Mega Man Powered Up.

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MooglesRUs posted...

You would have to explain to me why it doesnt.

It's not literally an optional fight. It's a required fight that you're expected to lose, but you can win. So in a way you could say it's optional whether you want to keep trying until you win it.

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Missed "optional." Oops.

Probably any Monster Hunter thing with a suboptimal weapon. Like trying to Hammer a Diablos back before you could make like Attack on Titan. Or Dual Blades on Plesioth's backwards hipcheck.

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SSJSephirothGokuX123 posted...

If you play cards and make tornado with the sandworm cards you can junction tornado to Squall's elemental attack and beat Diabolos easily.

My pick is fighting Fire Man as Oil Man in Mega Man Powered Up.

Sure, but something like that is a lot of required work to beat the potential 4th boss of the game.

Not really, Sand Worm cards are pretty easy to get from the guy who runs the gates at Balamb. Plus getting Diabolos early is super beneficial because of mug.

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I'm inclined to say something in Souls because it seems like you can often skip a lot of content before heading to the ending, leading to a lot of "optional" bosses that aren't secret/super bosses.

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And I don't know what else qualifies. There are plenty of hard optional bosses, but super and secret are tricky limitations. The hardest bosses are generally end or postgame optional bosses, they're usually not in the main story path if they're optional, and therefore can be considered secret depending on how hard they are to find, and if they're very hard to beat they could be considered super.

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Some dark souls / Sekiro boss I cant be bothered to think of

I cant think of any so my vote foes to Midgar Zolom.

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Extreme Measures Hades, if that counts. I never beat that

Bosses exclusive to higher difficulties are like the only thing I can think of for this, that and Touhou extra stages

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MooglesRUs posted...

For me, Ive been thinking about this for some days now, and its really difficult for me not to say Diablos from FF VIII. Hes a fast as hell murder machine that rips just rips through your team over and over once you get that lamp from Cid after the SeeD exam.

For a first time playthrough I think I'd agree with this!

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never was able to beat Ozma in FF9

I cannot fathom how you can do that with a lvl 3 zidane or whatever the fuck the challenge is

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Yeah, the real constraining factor here are all the qualifiers you set at the beginning.

You can probably cheese an answer out of Soulsborne or Sekiro by picking a boss off the critical path... but also isn't far enough off to count as secret? Nameless King in DS3?

Putting them aside, I'll go a bit left field and say you could make a decent argument for either Beast III fights in Fate/Grand Order if you fight them at max difficulty and don't go through the effort to de-power them.

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Thought was Gades

Optional non-secret non-super doesn't leave a lot of options though. With less qualifiers this is definitely not an RPG boss but most non-RPGs with tough bosses don't really have optional bosses

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"optional non-secret/super" is such a weird qualifier. wouldn't all difficult optional bosses be considered super bosses? So is the point of this question how difficult a side boss can be before being considered "super"?

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Full power Egg (SaGa Frontier 2) or full power Oblivion (Romancing SaGa 3)? Well at least in those cases fighting them at their "base" power levels is optional and normally you weaken them to the point where you can defeat them by defeating other bosses (so I wouldn't really say that they're "super" bosses despite being the hardest in the game).

I can also think of a few things like Battle of South Moundtop (SaGa Frontier) and Marietta (Yggdra Union) where you can finish the game without beating them, but they're mostly "hard" because they're complete fucking bullshit in design fuck trying to beat them.

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Diablos is literally toothless if he's blinded. Demi is % health you can't die to it. Blind then draw cast demi. I mean I know what you mean about doing it with absolutely no prior knowledge but it's also a game notoriously simple to "break". I always think of Demon Gate or Carry Armor for tough fights but they aren't optional. What about one of the Pokemon legendaries?

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DeepsPraw posted...

"optional non-secret/super" is such a weird qualifier. wouldn't all difficult optional bosses be considered super bosses? So is the point of this question how difficult a side boss can be before being considered "super"?

No, not at all. There are plenty of optional bosses that arent near Super Boss level. Since I started with VIII, using it for example there are probably 15 optional bosses that are not Super bosses

MH3:Tri Deviljho. Dude had way too much HP in that game and showed up as early as the start of High Rank. Game never requires you to fight him to beat the game. He's definitely not Secret since he is basically Monster Hunter's version of the Nemesis from RE3.

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First thing that comes to mind was from Bravely Default - The first fight with Qada is a nightmare because of Dark Breath basically being a guaranteed one-shot

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I don't think this is the actual answer, but Traitor Lord in Hollow Knight is probably up there if he counts (required for most endings but optional for the most basic ending).

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Pre-nerf Absolute Virtue in FF11?

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In an RPG, it would probably be some fight you're expected to lose, but you can actually win if you consider it optional in that regard.

Maybe something like the first fight against Kratos in Tales of Symphonia


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Does fighting lavos in the jar count

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banananor posted...

Does fighting lavos in the jar count

I dont really think so. Hes just the final boss early.

Im in the this question is too oddly specific camp

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masterplum posted...

Im in the this question is too oddly specific camp

Well, it's a completely different question if you include superbosses

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Punnyz posted...

never was able to beat Ozma in FF9

I cannot fathom how you can do that with a lvl 3 zidane or whatever the fuck the challenge is

whoops, to be fair it was like 4 in the morning when I saw this topic

optional

but not a super boss

I guess Ozma is a super secret boss

In Crono Cross, you can fight that one guy, I think he was the original wielder of the Einlanzer, the 2nd Einlanzer for Glen IIRC

You are forced to take that one chick into that fight, and if you never used her, its stupid hard.

But luckily he has a bug/exploit you can use and you can get him into a loop to beat him easily, but obviously that was never intended to be there. It took me a few tries to figure that out

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... sans undertale?

Like I... think that qualifies?

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Kamekguy posted...

... sans undertale?

Like I... think that qualifies?

I would think it does. Hes not a secret boss in the traditional sense.

But would the final boss of a different route really be considered optional? If you're doing Genocide Route he's not optional.

Edit: Like by that logic Nemesis would be optional because you don't need to do Golden Deer in Three Houses

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Are Ultimates in FFXIV considered superbosses? I guess thematically they're similar in scale to regular RPG superbosses in how absurdly hard they are.

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