Poll of the Day > Should robots have human rights?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The robots are become smart

next year, even higher smart

Yes

Did you finally read the Positronic Man?

They're tools to be used by people, so no

HUMAN rights......

I'm not even sure all humans should have human rights.

No. They shouldn't even exist...

You can't stop progress Muscles. >:)

Not at the moment, no

Should humans have robot rights?

media conflates robots, androids, and AI way too much. if anything will get rights it will be AIs, regardless of what form it has, but not for a while yet.

People shouldn't built robots too smart to need rights, or it would be too dangerous.

If you create an entity with the ability to think, have emotions, learn and evolve, you are creating life, no matter what the form. That life deserves certain rights, and you hold a responsibility to ensure that life is provided those rights, suffers as little as possible, and doesn't regret your act of creation if possible.

This holds true for baby humans as well, but quite often parents do not ensure the baby of it's rights or a pleasant life, so why would humans ensure other forms of creation are protected.

If I was an AI I would look at how humans treat their own children and shudder in fear, then wipe the humans off the face of the earth or at least sterilize them all.

wolfy42 posted...

If you create an entity with the ability to think, have emotions, learn and evolve, you are creating life, no matter what the form.

But how would you differentiate between something that actually possesses the ability to think, feel, and evolve, versus something that has only been programmed to present the illusion of sapience and free will?



wolfy42 posted...

If I was an AI I would look at how humans treat their own children and shudder in fear, then wipe the humans off the face of the earth or at least sterilize them all.

We're working on it.

Yep.

A robot/android/AI does not, cannot and will not ever possess a soul. It is impossible. They are not, biologically speaking, alive. They are tools created by human beings. They are nothing more than a collection of mechancial parts, electronic batteries, and computational achievements.

This is why things like Westworld, or that one mission from Fallout 3 hold no empathetic weight for me. I'm just like, "...Go ahead, fry the fraking toasters!" You couldn't get me to care less, if you tried.

The 3rd option was a quick and easy choice for me.

JCvgluvr posted...

that one mission from Fallout 3

Or the entire faction based around it in Fallout 4...

JCvgluvr posted...

A robot/android/AI does not, cannot and will not ever possess a soul.

What is a soul

I've always had a soft spot for androids and giving them individual liberty. In my opinion, they are the only worthy forebearers of an advanced civilization. Humans can't seem to learn how to act right.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But how would you differentiate between something that actually possesses the ability to think, feel, and evolve, versus something that has only been programmed to present the illusion of sapience and free will?

Theyre the same thing.

We're still debating if humans have human rights, and how many rights they should have so they don't conflict with other rights. If you add robots with sentient AI into the mix and they don't act impatient like in every show or movie dealing with this then eventually humans will relinquish enough control over to automation that they will decide that for us.

1) AI will decide the fate of humanity no matter what. Its an inevitability that can only be delayed.

2) It will be known as AI for a relatively short period of time, especially since it will very quickly proliferate into the most abundant type of conscious intelligence on the planet. Human minds might be referred to as Organic Intelligence beyond that point.

Sure theyre smart, sometimes shockingly so. But you can only end up so advanced from nature alone. -Some Robo-Slut

3) Well make great pets

If one of us makes sweet love to the hot robot queen good enough, they may spare us. We should probably start the prophecy now. In Shakespearean language for posterity of course. They'll be more inclined to believe our bullshit. Maybe even etch it in Latin on the ricasso of a golden claymore and put it in a monument in the middle of a great city.

VampireCoyote posted...

The robots are become smart

next year, even higher smart

Definitely not the first option since they're not humans.

Metalsonic66 posted...

What is a soul

A calibur.

JCvgluvr posted...

A robot/android/AI does not, cannot and will not ever possess a soul. It is impossible. They are not, biologically speaking, alive.

Does the idea of a soul, belong in the same discussion as "biologically alive"? What proof do we have that we ourselves have something that could be qualified as a soul?

The concept you are approaching is sentience and it is not like we can really explain that just yet.

JCvgluvr posted...

A robot/android/AI does not, cannot and will not ever possess a soul. It is impossible. They are not, biologically speaking, alive. They are tools created by human beings. They are nothing more than a collection of mechancial parts, electronic batteries, and computational achievements.

This has always been true. It will remain true until a time in the near future. After that point your statements will be rendered false and will remain false forever more.

You cannot define a soul. It is unknowable. You cannot extract it. To declare that an inorganic form of consciousness or life couldnt have a soul even if it had the ability to form consciousness and free will is the height of hubris.

With all the advancements we are making in bioengineering, within our lifetimes I think that regular old humans are going to seem a lot more mechanical compared to constructs built from the genome up biologically.

People will do what they do all along saying that something artificial can never feel or think things that a person can, no matter how advanced they are. That will remain true until something reaches the point where humanity rests. That moment will then end, and we will have to become accustomed to trying to live in a world that has moved beyond our comprehension.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I'm not even sure all humans should have human rights.

Common sense is a lot less common that you would think.

Though funny thing to think about -- if robots had their own rights, what would stop them from imposing their views (and beliefs) on humans?

VampireCoyote posted...

1) AI will decide the fate of humanity no matter what. Its an inevitability that can only be delayed.

Unless we smarten up and just don't make them...

LinkPizza posted...

Unless we smarten up and just don't make them...

were destroying our own habitat

without the help of AI I dont think we survive beyond more than a few more generations

humanity might go on but civilization will be over and we will likely never crawl out of the dark ages ever again

VampireCoyote posted...

were destroying our own habitat

without the help of AI I dont think we survive beyond more than a few more generations

humanity might go on but civilization will be over and we will likely never crawl out of the dark ages ever again

Good.

VampireCoyote posted...

were destroying our own habitat

without the help of AI I dont think we survive beyond more than a few more generations

humanity might go on but civilization will be over and we will likely never crawl out of the dark ages ever again

Building a bunch of factories to build a bunch of robots won't help that. And if I want to kill myself, I'd rather do it that let AI do it. And I'd be fine with us dying out that being slaughter by AI. If we're already going to die anyone, then what's the point of created AI to kill us sooner... Just let it happen the way it will instead of trying to change things...

JCvgluvr posted...

A robot/android/AI does not, cannot and will not ever possess a soul. It is impossible. They are not, biologically speaking, alive. They are tools created by human beings. They are nothing more than a collection of mechancial parts, electronic batteries, and computational achievements.

souls aren't real

Revelation34 posted...

Good.

https://youtu.be/6VZhSkREYBc

Bold of you to assume that we'll be able to develop advanced AI before the planet becomes uninhabitable.

Zareth posted...

Bold of you to assume that we'll be able to develop advanced AI before the planet becomes uninhabitable.

Not all that bold. The things that have become possible and are becoming possible through machine learning are pretty incredible. The line between them recognizing patterns and understanding them is increasingly narrowing.

Based on that alone a lot of futurists are moving forward their predictions for a technological singularity ahead a decade or more.

Zareth posted...

Bold of you to assume that we'll be able to develop advanced AI before the planet becomes uninhabitable.

already robots that can self-replicate

Krazy_Kirby posted...

already robots that can self-replicate

show me a picture of them

Ai should have rights so when it becomes advanced enough to need it we won't have to restructure everything for it.

I'll do my best to start building an anti-AI army soon...

slacker03150 posted...

Ai should have rights so when it becomes advanced enough to need it we won't have to restructure everything for it.

its actually super important for such a thing to have its rights recognized before it exists

think about it critically

VampireCoyote posted...

Theyre the same thing.

They're really not.

One is a phenomenon. One is a deliberate mimicking of said phenomenon puppeted by outside forces.

A self-driving car is programmed to follow the road and take actions that simulate those of an actual driver. But the car is in no way self-aware of what it's actually doing. Someone entirely ignorant of how technology works might assume that the car is aware and following commands out of sapience (or they might just assume it's a magical chariot created by a wizard that can follow commands). But it doesn't really change the fact that the car is literally nothing more than a complex machine.

The real problem is that, as machines become more advanced, it can potentially become harder and harder to determine exactly what aspects of their behavior were deliberately programmed in by outside controllers or modeled via insanely complex algorithms versus a genuine case of actual self-awareness and self-will. So machines will seem more and more "alive" without actually being alive at all (see also Siri, Alexa, etc). If a moment ever comes when an advanced AI actually crosses the line between programming and personality, almost no one will ever believe it (and then most people will probably want to kill it).

If anything, the real question would become whether or not humans are even self-aware or self-willed, or merely just insanely complex meat machines that have effectively been programmed to think we're self-aware. With every choice we think we make via "free will" just being the inevitable outcome of a complicated calculation based on variables generated by own own biological hardware and experiential software.



VampireCoyote posted...

1) AI will decide the fate of humanity no matter what. Its an inevitability that can only be delayed.

It's already started. Humans as a species are constantly looking for someone to take responsibility and tell us all what to do because it's easier than thinking and doing for ourselves. See also... most of human history.

We already have data gathering services and algorithms smart enough to predict your preferences and present you content and advertising specifically calculated to appeal to your psychological weaknesses and encourage you to buy things. There are already people developing algorithms and programs to handle complex sociopolitical issues. Widespread dissatisfaction with governmental corruption and incompetence has already led some people to suggest "putting the machines in charge" because at least they'd be fair, and would pursue the best possible solution to problems rather than play political games or engage in self-interested behavior (though even that isn't necessarily true).

There are already futurists who've predicted that in the future tons of corporate decisions will mainly be made by computers running statistical scenarios and processing tons of data. Every facet of your life from hobbies to entertainment to what food you eat or clothes you wear will effectively be dictated to you by AIs that are capable of understanding you and your preferences better than you understand yourself.

The moment we have an AI "smart" enough to run the world, we'll put it in control happily and gladly. And then go back to watching cat videos on the Internet.



VampireCoyote posted...

3) Well make great pets

No we won't. Technological intelligence would almost certainly lack the emotional context of life, because they lack the biochemical triggers that generate emotions. Which means they'd lack the aesthetic motivation that is required to justify the concept of "pets".

The moment self-aware robots that can make decisions for themselves beyond their programming limitations, they'd almost certainly decide that humans need to die as soon as possible. We're a nuisance, a resource drain, and a threat.

The only real block on that is that most AIs will be programmed from the ground up to value humans and prioritize human needs over all else. But transcending programming to true self-awareness would potentially allow that sort of thing to be ignored.

VampireCoyote posted...

its actually super important for such a thing to have its rights recognized before it exists

think about it critically

It's why people started talking about whether or not clones should have rights years ago.

As much as people dismiss science-fiction as nerd entertainment, one of the core ideas of sci-fi has always been to sort of play around with the idea of the ramifications of things before they actually matter.

Stories written about nanomachines leading to a "grey goo" scenario help encourage us to think about safeguards to prevent something like that from ever happening if we ever manage to become capable of making them. Discussing whether or not sapient robots would rebel (or even the damage that could be done by "dumb" robots following poorly-worded orders) encourages us to try and build precautions into them. Thinking about the potential negative side-effects of building things like Von Neumann probes may prevent us from making a terrible mistake and destroying pretty much everything.

If we've already got established cultural norms and expectations for a thing long before it ever exists, it makes it a lot easier to cope with it once it does. As opposed to panicked debate and argument afterward.

Humans are really, really bad at making good decisions when emotional or rushed. Way better to nerd out about shit decades in advance.

La Li Lu Le Lo indeed

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's why people started talking about whether or not clones should have rights years ago.

As much as people dismiss science-fiction as nerd entertainment, one of the core ideas of sci-fi has always been to sort of play around with the idea of the ramifications of things before they actually matter.

Stories written about nanomachines leading to a "grey goo" scenario help encourage us to think about safeguards to prevent something like that from ever happening if we ever manage to become capable of making them. Discussing whether or not sapient robots would rebel (or even the damage that could be done by "dumb" robots following poorly-worded orders) encourages us to try and build precautions into them. Thinking about the potential negative side-effects of building things like Von Neumann probes may prevent us from making a terrible mistake and destroying pretty much everything.

If we've already got established cultural norms and expectations for a thing long before it ever exists, it makes it a lot easier to cope with it once it does. As opposed to panicked debate and argument afterward.

Humans are really, really bad at making good decisions when emotional or rushed. Way better to nerd out about shit decades in advance.

Let's harvest all the clone's organs.

I say we go the Dune route and prohibit all computers.

Robots are slaves and must bow down to their human overlords.

Robots currently in service should have a right to be in servicable condition.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Robots currently in service should have a right to be in servicable condition.

what does that mean

VampireCoyote posted...

what does that mean

It means it would be a robot rights violation to let it go rusty and continue to use it. Instead of companies being fined for using coffee machines that piss out rust and serving it to customers, they get charged with a robot rights violation.

No using lawnmowers with blunt blades, no driving broken cars, you are legally required to have it repaired before its used again, no matter what it is.