Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 2 - A Second Serving of Subtle Spiciness

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kirby321 posted...

I had to make sure I wasn't just being bad at articulating. If I don't specify a target for the illusion to visit, then the illusion visits me. That's what I was told.

Am I just confusing, or does Corrik not read?

WHO is the illusion visiting you if you didn't create one to visit someone. How can a nonexistent chosen illusion visit yourself. Who is visiting you then?

UltimaterializerX posted...

You guys can kill Kirby with no fear whatsoever. My item and his role 100% cannot coexist, because for both of us to be town the host would have to potentially lie about night actions to a degree well beyond role madness standards. Theres a potential logic loop that wouldnt work that I trust astute minds like Isquen and Ben would have seen. Furthermore, his claim is blatantly a safelist claim and the role hes describing is not how Shadow Demon works; he also didnt give either name (Eredar, Giblet) for the character, when my role absolutely has a character name attached. No mention of Eredar being removed for legality reasons, nothing. The entire thing is a huge botch and his team clearly doesnt actually know the Dota games. They fished something believable off of the safe list and panicked. Well, that and I want to draw a shot with a bad claim but I actually want to live. Better luck next game, Kirby.

My item also answers Leas question posed with her vote, by the way. At this point, I consider her confirmed town.

First off, didn't Isquen specifically say not to meta the flavor like this?

Second, this is a lot of fluff. What specifically about my role doesn't work out with your item? Either you're lying or (more likely) you are sorely mistaken.

UltimaterializerX posted...

My item confirms the existence of Leas role (not her alignment, we would have to figure that out ourselves, though that doesnt really matter now) and absolutely buries Kirby with or without the botched flavor miss. I will not be saying what it is or what it does because denying scum info wins games.

How does that even make sense? We both claimed Miller, but she's also a Ninja while I'm a Decoy.

Just for (someone's) logic's sake. Do you have a name with your flavor?

Corrik7 posted...

WHO is the illusion visiting you if you didn't create one to visit someone. How can a nonexistent chosen illusion visit yourself. Who is visiting you then?

My ability makes illusions of people, and those illusions visit other people at my behest.

Suppose I make an illusion of Corrik. I tell the illusion to visit chang. Thus, it will appear as if you (Corrik) visited chang.

Suppose I make an illusion of Corrik, but I don't specify who the illusion should visit. By default, it will visit me. So it will appear as if you (Corrik) visited me.

Does that make sense? Idk why Isquen specifically mentioned that condition.

Anyway, I'll go DM Isquen regarding those actions. Hard to do all of this on my phone.

htaeD posted...

Just for (someone's) logic's sake. Do you have a name with your flavor?

"Shadow Demon" is all it says

Okay, noted for posterity.

Also at the very least I didnt get confused by Kirby's illusion claim like Corrik seemed to be.

Kirby321 posted...

Second, this is a lot of fluff. What specifically about my role doesn't work out with your item? Either you're lying or (more likely) you are sorely mistaken.

There it is again! Kirby, why aren't you willing to call people scummy when they contradict your claimed role? What are your thoughts on Ulti?

Ulti makes my head hurt.. ulti scum with Lea seems to obvious though

• okay hold up false alarm on the incorrect name claim. the trivia section on the dota 2 wiki says "In Dota, Shadow Demon's hero name was Eredar. This was removed in his transition to Dota 2 to avoid copyright issues with Blizzard as the Eredar are a race of magic wielders from the Warcraft universe.[1]
• Shadow Demon's fun/alternate name was "Giblet", innards of birds that are used in cooking."

so maybe he doesn't have a true name in dota 2 and would actually just be called shadow demon

wow the formatting on that post turned to absolute garbage but whatever you can probably figure it out

Hbthebattle posted...

There it is again! Kirby, why aren't you willing to call people scummy when they contradict your claimed role? What are your thoughts on Ulti?

What has Ulti even done this game? Nothing of importance, really. After playing quite a few games with him, I'm way more inclined to believe he's in his own world right now, believing he found a contradiction when there actually isn't.

Ulti makes quirky decisions. He let the Cop die in Star Wars/Pokmon Mafia just to protect me, a Watcher. Even though the Cop in that game was getting way more useful results than I did.

He also started believing Lea was scum at the last minute in a game when she and Ben were decimating scum left and right.

This behavior does not faze me at all. Not to be mean, but that's really the truth of the matter. I won't dismiss the possibility of Ulti being scum, but like, why would scum be hellbent on killing a Miller with an actively anti-town power? It doesn't make sense.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Fair enough.

Observer Ward is my item. It's a motion detector. Tells me whether someone has moved at night but doesn't tell me anything about their action. However, if it gets detected, whoever detected it gets gold.

Well that just feels like a coincidence given that I mentioned motion detectors earlier.

single use?

Clearly the plan is we all buy a motion detector item later and form a chain of detection.

Going to hazard a guess that ultis item is a sentry ward (detects invisible units and observer wards)

Has Hb said anything about anyone else besides me and Han? Of all the people on my tail, Hb is the one that feels the most artificial.

Actually, after a quick Ctrl + F for ":)", Hb has only talked about three people: me, Han, and Sbell.

This dude is trying to set up a mislynch on me. Damn near 90% of his posts have only been about me. The hell is up with that?

##Unvote
##Vote: Hb

Or gem of true sight i guess but thats a little more op

UltimaterializerX posted...

Thank you!

##Unvote

I have the sentry ward. I will use it. Use your ward on me tonight so town gets some sweet CAYSH.

And my ward detects motion, for those curious. ALL motion. Ninjas are not hidden from me, ergo the existence of my item confirms a ninja exists in the game. Lea wasnt countered and no one is calling her scum, so

hell yeah Im a beast

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Neither do I. I'm assuming there's another item in the game that scans for Observer Wards, much like in League of Legends.

Even without Ulti's item (of which I assume there could be more?)
Trackers and Watchers also count as detection.

Uh wait, Ulti.
Why on earth would anyone counter a ninja claim?
I mean, the usual ninja suspect sure wouldn't.

UltimaterializerX posted...

And my ward detects motion, for those curious. ALL motion. Ninjas are not hidden from me, ergo the existence of my item confirms a ninja exists in the game. Lea wasnt countered and no one is calling her scum, so

So your ward is also a motion detector, yeah? I fail to see how that contradicts my role at all since my targets don't physically move as a result of my actions.

But whatever. I feel validated knowing that your "contradiction" was really just a misunderstanding lol
Still, kinda curious how it took me mentioning my item to make you reconsider, given that my item has nothing to do with my role.

little under two hours until we see the shop inventory i believe

Kirby321 posted...

My ability makes illusions of people, and those illusions visit other people at my behest.

Suppose I make an illusion of Corrik. I tell the illusion to visit chang. Thus, it will appear as if you (Corrik) visited chang.

Suppose I make an illusion of Corrik, but I don't specify who the illusion should visit. By default, it will visit me. So it will appear as if you (Corrik) visited me.

Does that make sense? Idk why Isquen specifically mentioned that condition.

Anyway, I'll go DM Isquen regarding those actions. Hard to do all of this on my phone.

I know that. But if you DIDNT MAKE AN ILLUSION then WHO IS THE ILLUSION visiting yourself

htaeD posted...

Uh wait, Ulti.
Why on earth would anyone counter a ninja claim?
I mean, the usual ninja suspect sure wouldn't.

Okay that's pretty funny lol

Ironically, I feel like that makes me feel better about Ulti. Never seen him as scum before, but something like that just seems exactly like overeager town Ulti trying to drop the revelation of the century on us.

Alright, I'm caught up. First of all, I'm still wary of Lea's back and fourth on Kirby for no real reason and I'm surprised and concerned almost everyone let slide. I suppose Kirby got a lot of attention and most people assume one of them is telling the truth.

Kirby's being inconsistent too though. He said Lea as scum probably doesn't counter him because it's suicide yet has been on the idea of two town millers the whole day. Hb also pointed this out and it was never replied to. I so recall him making a few inconsistencies back in the final day of SW&P but ignoring the point isn't good.

Also Kirby, are you saying it's not clear from your role if you may use your ability or if you have to use your ability?

Ulti, I recall you saying more than once everyone should claim in a couple of games, even one that had an anti claim mechanic. Now you're saying it's best to hold back information. I've seen you flip on opinions fast for some games, but what exactly caused the change of mind here? Another thing, you said Lea should get credit for finding scum here, which makes it sound like you think she's town, but also made it clear that you know her role and not her alignment. For someone who tends to be extremely confident on reads, why do you specify not knowing her alignment?

changmas posted...

little under two hours until we see the shop inventory i believe

Oh no
Dont make me stay up late

Corrik7 posted...

I know that. But if you DIDNT MAKE AN ILLUSION then WHO IS THE ILLUSION visiting yourself

I...

What?

If I don't make an illusion, what the fuck do you mean "who is the illusion visiting me"? I would presume that if I can choose not to make an illusion, THEN THERE IS NO ILLUSION THAT VISITS ANYBODY.

Ya dingus

The more Corrik is confused, the more I am (at him)

Jesus fucking Christ.

I have to choose a person to make an illusion of then choose who to have them visit.

Are you compelled?

Idk. If I don't say anything. The illusion visits me.

How can the illusion visit you if you didn't make an illusion?

Then there is no illusion to visit me.

like what in the fucking world is going on and the fact you act like this isnt brain dead is an obvious troll. Aight. Hammer whenever.
Kirby321 posted...

I...

What?

If I don't make an illusion, what the fuck do you mean "who is the illusion visiting me"? I would presume that if I can choose not to make an illusion, THEN THERE IS NO ILLUSION THAT VISITS ANYBODY.

Ya dingus

ctesjbuvf posted...

Also Kirby, are you saying it's not clear from your role if you may use your ability or if you have to use your ability?

It's not stated that I'm obligated to use my ability every night, but I also didn't think to ask the host if I have to make an illusion each night.

ctesjbuvf posted...

He said Lea as scum probably doesn't counter him because it's suicide yet has been on the idea of two town millers the whole day. Hb also pointed this out and it was never replied to.

What's inconsistent about that? Scum Lea probably doesn't counterclaim a mediocre player claiming Miller, therefore, it's likely she's telling the truth and is likely town. Sure, there's third party as a possibility, but who cares about third parties at this stage of the game.

Btw the existence of ultis sentry ward (and me presuming they will be purchasable in shop) further corroborates Kirbys role being real

however maybe more likely hes lying about alignment bc that seems much more useful to scum

Corrik7 posted...

Jesus fucking Christ.

I have to choose a person to make an illusion of then choose who to have them visit.

Are you compelled?

Idk. If I don't say anything. The illusion visits me.

How can the illusion visit you if you didn't make an illusion?

Then there is no illusion to visit me.

like what in the fucking world is going on and the fact you act like this isnt brain dead is an obvious troll. Aight. Hammer whenever.

You need to read.

If I make an illusion AND DON'T SPECIFY A TARGET AFTER MAKING THE ILLUSION, the ILLUSION THAT I JUST CREATED visits me by default.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID

I don't know if I'm compelled. I'm asking the host this.

If anything, I'm compelled to PICK A TARGET FOR THE SUMMONED ILLUSION, and if I don't pick a target, THE ILLUSION DEFAULTS TO VISITING ME.

I'm seriously not trying to escalate this further, but what the hell is so confusing about this? You clearly misread my initial post.

Corrik I dont know why its so hard to parse.
Kirby is claiming his power has two targets, he said so from the very start.
What you are lost about is that he was talking about the second target automatically going towards him if he doesnt pick one. (Not the first target: the illusion maker)

It's usually clear in roles if you must or can take actions.

What's inconsistent is that you're saying scum Lea wouldn't do that because it's suicide but also saying that confirms she's town. That would mean a scum doing this would not have suicides but fooled you.

Also why in the world does no one understand Corrik, he's coming off perfectly clear.

Kirby321 posted...

You know, that's a good question. I never considered just... not using my ability, and I didn't ask if it was mandatory or not. All I know is that if I don't specify a target, then the illusion defaults to visiting me.

I was considering just making an illusion of myself every night and just not specifying a target to have my illusion visit myself, but that got vetoed.

Okay fine. Maybe I should've said, "if I don't specify a target FOR MY ILLUSION" it would've been extra clear, but what the fuck are context clues.

It's not like I didn't provide a direct example of how that could have been exploited in the paragraph right after. Good grief

Kirby321 posted...

This dude is trying to set up a mislynch on me. Damn near 90% of his posts have only been about me. The hell is up with that?

I'm going after you because you keep dodging or giving non-answers or unsatisfactory answers to my questions. I think you being so sure on Lea and Ulti's alignments is a pretty clear slip.

He is perfectly clear in how he has confused himself.