Board 8 > YGO Master Duel Mafia Topic 7 - Zero Days since the last Microtransaction

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lol

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I held back with that post even though I wasn't thinking rationally. I was frustrated that nobody was listening to me and I felt that was because I was too green. And I didn't think that was fair. I do apologize for that. It won't happen again. This is also why I'll play every other game. I can't keep regulating myself for such extended periods, but I think I improved that a lot on the last day here. Part of why I wanted to play was just that: I need to control myself better, and on that one occasion I failed. I'm sorry.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

BCT I am sorry. I had a really off game and you didn't start to look some what towny to me until the last day that I why I was like you know what I'll wait

You had blinders on. You were literally the only one who thought I could be scum after SBell died for it, and instead of keeping an open mind, you tried to justify my mislynch backwards, instead of trying to analyze things. This, plus all your waffling and contradictions, made it apparent that you were scum. And that you were town still shocks me after I spent three hours on that ISO. But still, I accept your apology, and I do think taking a month or two off is healthy for you.

Also, I'm for banning self-votes, but not the need to unvote. You can unvote without voting again and that's part of Mafia strategy. Doing away with that makes no sense to me. This isn't just results-oriented thinking - it's part of the game.

I think they just mean no need for unvoting to make a new vote
But like I said in the discord, thats not something I am used to.
I just took it at face value that unvotes are needed

I think death handled everything well, and i think that if town doesn't lose 3 of its 5 power roles by day 2 then it would be a lot more even on that front.

No problem with self-voting if in an angle that is playing to win. Also, nothing wrong with that trick. Scum got greedy and careless.

I don't understand how some of you even play monopoly sometimes. If we weren't motherfucking each other and talking shit while playing madden and golden eye as kids, were we even playing the game?

Like, get a hold of yourself.

The game is to find liars. Literally the point of the game is to either lie or find out who else is lying. You shouldn't be upset for people accusing you of deception, obfuscation, or degrading your arguments. It is the POINT of the game.

If you can't handle that, you probably got some issues of some sort lol. It's for fun. The fact we even have to play with kiddie gloves and nice rules is silly enough, and people can't handle it with those also? Come on now! Understand the context of the game you are playing. It's fine.

Kirby321 posted...

So... what exactly was the plan if no one hammered or unvoted you?

Say this confirms you + Sultan as scum and hope I can convince town that me and BCT being paired makes no sense.

Kirby321 posted...

But like... Sultan likely wouldn't unvote you if he truly felt that you were scum. BCT had no reason to hammer you if he were town. And if we caught on to your bluff, Chang wouldn't have hammered you.

Sultan should be less certain you're town than BCT is scum at that point and would be afraid of Kirby X BCT because he was dead set on BCT being scum.

This assumes Sultan is actually thinking about the game which is not a given

If you can't handle that

Corrik lets not go there.

htaeD posted...

Corrik lets not go there.

Maybe its necessary. Maybe expectations of what is normal in an game for fun is off or something. Look how many people in a single game said they couldn't handle it.

htaeD posted...

Yeah I didnt know how to deal with BCT since a modkill would end the game right there and then

I don't think it was necessary it just showed BCT was super frustrated which is Not Alignment Indicative and can be figured out by reading the game easily

Poor form though

Also at some level I agree with Corrik

However I don't think BCT is quite at that level where he can't play. Like I managed to talk him down when he thought I was scum. That's good. And the more games he plays the less tilty he'll get.

Much less game destructive than Crescent-Moon. Just an element you need to play around properly to draw useful gameplay out of if he's starting to tilt.

oh did this end?

mvdoc right here

Ending for the ages sbell

I see scum conceded. way to pull out a win town.

Obellisk posted...

I see scum conceded. way to pull out a win town.

You've never seen a less deserving town cheat out a win lol

Well I had fun from the sidelines despite not knowing YGO like... at all.

Lord knows I got really angry in my early mafia days as well
Mostly because I was the scum scapegoat back then and people blamed me for town losing.
At least we are beyond that nonsense

htaeD posted...

Lord knows I got really angry in my early mafia days as well
Mostly because I was the scum scapegoat back then and people blamed me for town losing.
At least we are beyond that nonsense

Nah

We aren't

Town was completely ready to blame me and are upset I cheated out a win

Chang's fakeclaim was godlike btw. We are a lot closer to winning legit if he claims vanilla

Yeah, definitely. Chang slipped up on day 1 a bit, but I think he played super well for the rest of the game. That claim was top tier

But I do think a final 4 of Chang BCT Sultan me/Abacus is winnable if we can get there

People want to say town just snoozes into trusting Chang but BCT was already wondering if that's necessarily a town role so yeah if Sultan and BCT pause and stop going for each other its winnable

BIG if to even get there though

No i agree BCT should keep playing he will get better. Like I said I was second guessing myself

Obellisk posted...

I see scum conceded. way to pull out a win town.

No way to pull out the win Lopen is more Like it.

Lopen is really good!

Thanks Sultan. I think you're really good too if you don't get brain locked into a theory like finding a BCT tell or lying about a pineapple. That would be the big thing to takeaway from the game-- if you've got one major thing convincing you someone is scum try to remove that and see if you're still sure.

And you all hating on it like, I do think how I built up the gambit is something that not just anyone can do. There is a very specific way you have to execute that for people to both forget their old vote and get hyped to hammer immediately. People saying anyone can do that are underselling my mastery of bullshitting.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah Lopen, good job coming around in the end, might have been a bit harsh in dead town chat when you were confidentially off and didn't use the information from my lynch, but I was also right that town's hope was you coming around and you were getting there (and won the game I suppose, just not in a way I imagined).

Also like

I don't know how you say we didn't use that

That was my "smoking gun" on Kirby, Poppy not pushing for that lynch and pivoting to Sbell.

And the next step is to extend that and realize Chang didn't either. Do we get there? Who knows. But the information was usable.

I also don't know why I get credit for lynching you when I would have preferred hb or Kirby as lynches at the time and the only reason I pushed to consolidate the wagon on you was to compromise with Han. Who I'm sure of course blamed me for the lynch entirely.

oh and kirbys niceness totally pocketed me early. jerk

Hey, I suggested changing away from Ctes and you literally said no. Could have been different if you just said yes!

Doesn't matter though. Game was solved with Ctes's death. At that point, the only extant question was whether or not Sultan's belief in a Yugi flavor was staged or not.

Now don't get me wrong I had town read on Ben (and Chang) which is a huge misplay. I did not play day 2 well at all.

But I don't claim ownership of lynching Ctes at all. That lynch was not primarily my idea and I do think town can overrule me outright on Ben, or can pivot to Poppy or Kirby if they actually you know, tried. Like I would have fought Ben's lynch but the other two not so much.

felt like ctes counter preservation vote felt more town after I flipped. but that might have been the fact that at that point I knew he was town.

Only an informed observer would call the game solved in the face of that godlike Chang fakeclaim

Like yes there are minor holes you can poke in it but it being so elaborate, detailed, and balanced in the setup is hard to argue against on its face. Harder to argue against than a literal town scan in fact. If you don't know Chang is scum you're not thinking he's obvious scum at all.

Lopen, I already explained in this game why Chang was Scum.

And I was right.

You can hand-wave that all you want, but it's fact.

He can be scum but if you don't know he's scum you're more inclined to doubt the read in the face of that amazing fakeclaim

You are literally doing the exact thing you always claim I do here lol

It's not the exact same thing. There's a significant difference.

The difference is that I am right.

That was like the 3rd or 4th iteration of potential fake claims lol, i kept finding holes in the other ones. Was very proud to settle on that one

Yeah Chang it was good enough to give literally anyone on earth pause except Han and probably Red so you did great.

I think if Kirby was lynched normally this game would have gotten really interesting

I was going to push to let town NL to oblivion because the game state would keep moving due to the item shop which would force chang to kill

Then it would be weird why chang was Alive

Of course that wasn't going to happen because if scum didn't punt lopen is lynched but that would have been interesting

Lopen posted...

Nah

We aren't

Town was completely ready to blame me and are upset I cheated out a win

I feel town came around on you. Or at least I did. But I guess you still have a point.

I came around on Lopen and wasn't going to vote for him here. It was always either Sultan or Kirby.

It never occurred to me that Chang lied about his role. Again, as I said, his fake role didn't specify alignment and could have gone either way. So I could have been convinced. I had forgotten much of what had happened early. Chalk that up to a lack of experience. But he was honestly not on my radar - in fact, I'd tied my Ghost Belle to him! Whoops.

I do think more games will help people get used to what makes me start to lose my mind and will help me better regulate it. This was certainly better than the Blade game four years ago, when I committed seppuku as town for no reason. But I just need a little break before I go again. Too much Mafia would break me too.

I feel like hosts are guilty of the informed observer situation just as conceited town can be

Pretty much every time I've fake claimed as scum/sk and won I've had the host say how bad the claim was unless I claimed vanilla

But like yeah the things for me believing a fakeclaim are this (aside from obvious balance/setup meta)

1. Do the actions line up with how you'd expect a player who drew the role to play. What really sold me is Chang was like obsessed with trying to make his role matter and was trying to use it to solve the game. I also doubted hb because I can't imagine a cop ever trying to claim 2 people are scum because of them scanning a player innocent-- still can't but oh well.

2. How is easy is it to fake. In a sense this was easy to fake in that town couldn't verify any info, but in a sense it wasn't because there was just so much detail in it and he had elements that could be called on like "I have a self destruction trap from Corrik"

3. Does it help town at all. This is what we SHOULD have caught Chang on because man the cards were kinda just pointless (I didn't like the cards much as an aside it just felt like there was no point to them other than catching people lying about them)

I do feel like the process tends to work and my success rate on catching scum fake claims is higher than B8s on the whole. Yes sometimes you put more pressure on a legitimate claim that it should have but that can give material to solve the game too.

DVC can be too harsh at times, but this was not one of the games where it was.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I really wanted scum to think I was day cop and just kill me but that didn't happen

See Lopen thsi is why you don't claim vanilla first chance.

ctesjbuvf posted...

See Lopen thsi is why you don't claim vanilla first chance.

I would argue Sultan did not play vanilla well tbh. He kept that going so long it made him look suspicious needlessly.

And I'm not necessarily saying dvc was harsh-- I don't read it. I'm just saying I get the vibe that some people really wanted town to lose to lord over "bad play" from some of the reactions in here.

I guess that is the problem when you dont want your gimmick to be able to influence the game too much

Like to me best vanilla play is

1. Try hard to win and town clear yourself by effort put in or catching scum. That's how you draw shots.

2. If you can't do that, be as honest as soon as it becomes remotely necessary to because otherwise you're just cutting down time for town to solve the game. Panicked town will get the lynch wrong most of the time.

Scum never shoots you or Sultan ever in this game. Trying to imply a faked power role is great unless you're faking it on someone who's town then scum knows you're lying and town doesn't and it makes town look bad. And odds are, you will do that because there are twice as many town.

Chang's claim was good. His play was bad throughout the game and atrocious day 1. I told you guys to get his claim then and destroyed his nonsensical argument against me. And you all were like... mehhhh let's go kill a random person!

The scum team in general moreso spent more time saying why they couldn't play the game than actually making comments about the game. Poppy and Chang was blatant with it. Kirby did a lot of sucking up the entire game as well.

Ben I thought played decent besides that LOL claim.

That said, Chang's claim could have been good enough to win, and it likely would have... because town refused to even look at him or go back at him.

I think Scum deserved the loss though because they lost the same way they played. Lazy. Kirby was the sole person I felt that put effort in and Lopen unfortunately nailed him (granted with a slight leap in logic that hit the mark hard).

town who was actually alive at the time (or I guess semi-alive in my case) came around on Lopen - as I said, redemption arc from d4 on