Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 4 - I have a score to settle with those Koopa Bros.!

(+) Yeah! (+)

An explosion rang out through the night. In the morning, the shredded remains of the worlds most adorable Bob-omb around were found strewn across the town.

Lea has died!

You are a pink Bob-omb with a heart-shaped knob and a pony-tail for a fuse. After being rescued from the Koopa Bros. Fortress by Mario, you decide to help him take down Bowser. After all, he helped you get revenge on the Koopa Bros., so its only right to return the favor. Your ability to explode helped Mario escape from prison in the Koopa Bros. fortress and is sure to come in handy again.

You are Bombette, TOWN Bomb. If you are killed at night, you will explode, killing the attacker as well. Unlike a traditional bomb, you do not activate on lynch. Also, you will not activate when targeted by non-killing actions.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

No one can say for sure that they were killed in the blast, but the residents of the Mushroom Kingdom like to believe that Bombette got her final revenge on the way down.

SBell has died!

Likely inspired by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you are a group of four Koopa Troopas dressed as ninjas. Lucky you, you get to play four characters at once! You are so eager to prove yourselves to Bowser than you forget to protect Eldstar, who Bowser entrusted you to guard. In addition to being ninjas, you are also masters of disguise and managed to blend in perfectly in Toad Town despite being Koopa Troopas. In this game, your goal is to use your chicanery to hoodwink the town and help your team achieve victory.

You are the Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP Ninjas. Once per night, you may choose one of your living teammates abilities OR your factional night kill and perform it as only a true ninja could. You will not be seen performing this action by any scanners. In addition, as masters of disguise, you will appear as Fice T. to any flavor scanners, with the following text:

This Toad guards the path to Forever Forest. He looks timid... Isn't that a bad trait in a guard?
Not only does he scare easily, I hear that he's especially afraid of ghosts. Seeing as Forever Forest is supposedly haunted, he must be completely freaked out.

You win when the Koopa Troops victory becomes inevitable.

With the Koopa Bros. having already been defeated, Mario and company were able to pass right through their fortress with zero resistance. Unfortunately, they found no Star Spirit within. Puzzled, the party returned to Shooting Star Summit and asked which Star Spirit was being protected by the Koopa Bros. The other Spirits glanced at each other, paused for what seemed like hours, and said:

...Eldstar.

Oh no!

Alive (14):
Ben
Cody
Ctes
Death
Dumey
Han
Hb
JC
Kirby
Peaf
Plum
Red
Sultan
Ulti

Shredded:
LD1: Isquen Eldstar, TOWN Vanilla
KN1: Lea Bombette, TOWN Bomb
KN1: SBell - Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP Ninjas

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 48 hours from now).

Well done, Lea. I was prepared to go after sbell today, but I see that that's no longer necessary.

Thanks, Plum. Sorry, isq.

tag

Typing this up ahead of time because I will not be available at day start time (because some people wanted to start day later for some reason) so Ill have time to copy-paste this over.

First of all, most importantly: JC might be Scum.

For those of you who are skeptics, Ill say it like this: JC showed his hand when he didnt care whether or not Peaf lived or died. Even thinking Isquen was Town, at end of day, Peaf still was a worse lynch, given the way he was treating it. More to the point - JC was anti-Han yesterday. Who was the other person most anti-Han (aside from Sultan)? Peaf.

If JC was Town, he would have felt better about Peaf being the anti-Han, and he would have voted to save him. But he specifically did nothing in the tiebreaker.

Additionally, the lynchpin for JC was that, when I gave a post explaining my whole thing about Isquen, he brushed it off and said Well if nobody else wants to vote Han but frankly, if hes bringing the Isquen vote into question, then he would not have ignored that post. Why did he ignore it?

Because it was a good post and it hurt his stance on me. His stance on me which was Throw shade at Han because others have and maybe we can make it catch. But if he truly thought I was Scum, he would have cared who the other people aligned with him were. As he did not vote to save Peaf, he did not truly think I was Scum.

Going from there

For Peaf to be Scum, hed have to have made an insane gambit at end of day. Im good to call him Town from here. I expect him to be dead come start of day though, because I feel like everyone will think that.

Lea is also someone I see being dead at start of day IF Dumey is Scum. If shes dead, then I would say Dumey is the one to gun for, but likely, well be gunning for Dumey anyway. His name got bandied about and hes a good direction to go. But yeah, its hard to see Lea as Scummy she just hasnt had the Town energy, but she has reason not to. Im biased to not lynch Lea, but Im still not feeling it. And I liked how she played that end of day.

Plums choice to lynch Isquen at the end of day was, well, curious. Its only truly Scummy if him and Peaf are Scum/Scum which is like, not likely at all? I liked that Peaf and I were settling on him, but him choosing to nail Isquen to the cross was very pro-Town (if Peaf is also Town, which should be the default thought atm). Plum could be someone Im wrong about, so I wont stamp with Town approval, but Im not thinking Plum atm.

Hb, however, did the bad thing - projected a lynch of Peaf without committing to it right away. It was very Its better for Peaf to be lynched, but I dont want to look too Scummy doing it. There is also a chance that Hb got a Townread from everyone after gunning for Sultan and playing mad, given that I wouldnt say he had a strong presence for the rest of the day. However, if Im alive, it means I was wrong about things, and Hb would be one that I think Id be wrong about. Its probably safer to assume that Scum would be hands-off at end-of-day when they could have been available, so him voicing up was unnecessary if the responsibility fell on someone else to ensure Town died.

Red - no reason whatsoever to show up at end of day like that. If hes Scum, Red would just stay gone in the last 10 minutes instead of going oops Im here. And we cant even say he was trying to save a Scumbuddy because Isquen flipped Town. I will also put down here that one of the things I thought was that Reds earlier posts in topic seemed Townish, moreso than Ulti, so I find everyone who suggested Ulti be lynched over Red to look worse.

Kirby - Bouncing off of that, I think Kirby was the only person who said to lynch Ulti over Red, which is good. He had real analysis of that situation. If Im alive, Kirby is one of the people I could be wrong about, so at least at the moment, Im thinking of him as Townish. He also had no reason to defend me with the arguments he did if he is Scum and Peaf is Town smarter to just let the suspicion ride on me.

Sultan - another choice for someone I could be wrong about. If Plum and Hb end up right about him, then it might just be that Sultan is Scum. I dont think he is but I cant say for sure because Im in a doubting phase. But I dont think he played the last topic very well. But then again, Sultan mixing things up makes sense for him.

Death - I am not a good Death reader. I would say expressly to Peaf that I dont think Death leaving his vote down is alignment indicative. I think it was just Death picking the side of the line that he believed. That said, other people tend to be better at reading Death than me, so Im cool to stay hands-off for now.

SBell - Last one directly related to the end-of-day that Ill speak of. SBell could be Scum. SBell could be buddying me. I could be wrong about SBell. I dont think I am, but it is a possibility that SBell is a place where Im wrong. However, weve had spats in games before - they tend to be Town/Town when that happens. In games where SBell is not Town, he doesnt have quite the fire, and I think we managed to successfully de-escalate and move forward productively. I also think its telling that SBell also detached and said not to lynch Peaf, when as buddy, he would have kept pushing Peaf with me.

Ben - I actually left Ben off when I originally typed this all up, since I needed to review him, so lets see what happened: Ben did nothing of note. Then he hopped on Peaf, sort of with me. Stated Peaf/Dumey is Town/Scum probs, which looks bad if Dumey is Scum. Said to lynch Red > Ulti. He managed to say remarkably little in the time he was here at days end Suggests Plum over Dumey, but Peaf > Plum. Then he misses the days end and overtime. Pretty bad.

So where does this leave us with everyone else?

Cody - I aint touching that yet. Some people have suggested that the way he has asked questions seems less likely if he has Scum helping him. However, if I were Scum with Cody, I would expressly tell him to act like he knows nothing and ask questions to figure things out from Town. So like, it might make sense to lean Town on him, but I dont want to fully commit to it.

Ctes - Ctes said good things but did nothing of note. Ctes is my biggest pick for snake-in-the-grass of the game. Im sure TIMEZONES have to do with it, but his absence towards the end of day makes me quite uneasy.

Ulti - Probably replaced by this point. Ulti was inarguably less Townish than Red. This could be condemning of people who responded to my hypothetical with saying to lynch Red first, or damning to people like Hb who hid from the response, choosing to say evewyone knows its a dick move to lynch cody, and im gonna focus on that instead of the pawt that can be talked about, which is Ulti vs Wed.

That said, Ulti did nothing of note, and when he did show up, he read a buzzphrase and applied it in the only way he could, which like its not really content that helps? But I dont hate it? Its maybe more Townish than if Scum tried to offer something real - I mean, Ulti could have asked Scumboard for ideas on what was going on if that was all he was going to offer. So I dont feel bad about Ulti at this time.

To summarize:
Town
Peaf
Red
SBell-

Townish
Plum
Lea
Kirby
Hb-
Sultan-

????
Cody+
Ulti+
Death

Scummish
Ctes+
Dumey
Ben

Scum
JC

If Im wrong in my reads, its probably Sultan, SBell, maybe Lea.

With SBell dead, I'll have to rethink things, but I'll have to do that later.

##Vote: JC

HanOfTheNekos posted...

First of all, most importantly: JC might be Scum.

For those of you who are skeptics, Ill say it like this: JC showed his hand when he didnt care whether or not Peaf lived or died. Even thinking Isquen was Town, at end of day, Peaf still was a worse lynch, given the way he was treating it. More to the point - JC was anti-Han yesterday. Who was the other person most anti-Han (aside from Sultan)? Peaf.

If JC was Town, he would have felt better about Peaf being the anti-Han, and he would have voted to save him. But he specifically did nothing in the tiebreaker.

Additionally, the lynchpin for JC was that, when I gave a post explaining my whole thing about Isquen, he brushed it off and said Well if nobody else wants to vote Han but frankly, if hes bringing the Isquen vote into question, then he would not have ignored that post. Why did he ignore it?

Because it was a good post and it hurt his stance on me. His stance on me which was Throw shade at Han because others have and maybe we can make it catch. But if he truly thought I was Scum, he would have cared who the other people aligned with him were. As he did not vote to save Peaf, he did not truly think I was Scum.

feeling like peaf was more town than you does not mean that i thought peaf was more town than isquen. there's a reason that i had peaf = dumey on the lynch list. if isquen had been on that list he probably would have been equal to them too.

anyways i was kind of hoping that i'd have the time to digest the tie, given that when plum hammered i didn't even know the full extent of what isquen had claimed. if you're proposing that i'm scum because i didn't vote isquen before i had a chance to actually fully grasp what was happening, then good luck

good OMGUS though

I agree with you on a few things Han, but especially plum and red. Those are almost my same notes word for word but paraphrased.

Plum is a lock for town in my book, his actions make zero sense as scum.

is it concerning to anyone else that SBell was very explicit about 'we are absolutely not touching han today'

##vote: Han

let us dance

Chaeix posted...

is it concerning to anyone else that SBell was very explicit about 'we are absolutely not touching han today'

##vote: Han

let us dance

u wot m8?

Peaf is confirmed town. There is absolutely no way scum peaf doesnt hammer there as scum with isquen flipping town.

Sbell dying should give a ton of information, thats going to be the first thing I look into.

Me and Kirby both completely missed overtime, because we had a scheduled raid in FF14 right at deadline.

LOL at the Sbell kill. I thought him and Han were being way too lovey dovey, since they had an unwritten reason for town reading each other that I was just accepting. Han is probably scum too. And i cant think of a better way for lea to go out.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

u wot m8?

Obellisk posted...

after my exchange with Han and his rest of day 1 (of what I've read) I'm not going to lynch Han day 1. I just wont.

close enough

Hello all, my name is still Cody, and I will be doing my best to actually be a useful player today and participate in discussions that don't revolve around asking questions.

Worth noting, SBell was on the list of players who was helpful in answering my questions.

Chaeix posted...

close enough

So no?

I didn't exactly think Peaf was scum there either (and I still don't)! I just was more confident in Isquen. Oh well.

but guys
remember when sbell attacked me for going after sultan
I remember :)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

So no?

'i am not lynching han today'
'we are not lynching han today'

technically different, similar intent, he admitted to defending you.

Obellisk posted...

hasn't been a whole bunch at all. my only defense of Han just showed up.

I think han is town right now. He is the one who made the tie happen to begin with, and I think he'd prefer isq alive over me if he were scum.

Sbell did a lot of work to get on han's good side after the very early and mostly meaningless scuffle. Regardless of if i think Han is scum or town (yesterday was scum, today is town in my book), scum Sbell would have reason to shift attention away from Han, but to try to look good while doing so.

T1p127 - said he'd finger Han for most of the game but I don't remember him doing much of that after their agreement to disagree.

The main thing concerning me about Han is that Han called sbell fake in t1p135, but was not willing to vote him at end of day when i proposed sbell or plum.

Can you please explain this further at your convenience, han?

I'll say I at least agree with Han that Peaf is probably town, just for his actions during the Overtime segment. Not voting to save yourself is a big balls move and i think scum team would be screaming at him on the scum board to save himself and get the mislynch on Isquen there.

Sbell denied defending Han. I agree, jc.

But i was also saying eh let's give Han a night. And i think that scum Sbell would have done that regardless of han's alignment.

Giant walls put together before the day starts usually means you know you arent dying which is odd to me unless Han is scum.

But it is odd to me he would post that message saying Sbell is town if he is scum

Well, actually its just odd in general really.

I followed through on my promise and did look back on Peaf's posts through D1. And... overall, my conclusion is that Peaf is likely town. His unexplained vote on me so early into the day stuck out like a sore thumb, and Peaf doesn't strike me as the kind of scum player to do something that would call plenty of attention to himself. Speaking of calling attention to himself, I liked this post from him in response to Sultan:

Peace___Frog posted...

I think it's peculiar that you got attacked for your vote but only the guy being voted and the guy tunneling on me said anything about mine.

I don't think Peaf would make this argument calling attention to his own vote as scum. Peaf is clearly out here trying to solve the game. Not to mention his demeanor at the end of the day and during the tiebreaker was very calm and cooperative. I don't think he even voted out of self-preservation, which scum Peaf could have easily done to break the tie.

By contrast, I don't think I'm too keen on Dumey. I feel like he was really hung up on Peaf for pretty much the entirety of D1, and I don't know how to feel about that. Seems a little too on-the-nose to be scummy, but it's still problematic. I did the same with Lopen in Yu-Gi-Oh Mafia by taking just one of his points and trying to paint him as scum for pretty much the entire latter half of the game.

masterplum posted...

Giant walls put together before the day starts usually means you know you arent dying which is odd to me unless Han is scum.

But it is odd to me he would post that message saying Sbell is town if he is scum

Well, actually its just odd in general really.

Why would that be odd?

Peace___Frog posted...

Sbell denied defending Han. I agree, jc.

But i was also saying eh let's give Han a night. And i think that scum Sbell would have done that regardless of han's alignment.

He denied defending Han earlier in the day, but admitted he was defending later in the day.

Of note is that ctes was the only player without a vote down with no excuse. Plum technically didn't have a vote down, but that's because he unvoted me to break the tie.

Ulti and Cody were, well, Ulti and Cody.

That leaves ctes. Perhaps death put a vote down because he remembered me using this same logic to suspect sbell and him last game? Death was town at that time, but still. It would be on his mind!

Death and dumey are absolutely my priorities today, at this time, until my bedtime reread.

PunishedBen posted...

Why would that be odd?

Usually people are embarrassed to be wrong like that. Im surprised that town Han would just throw it out there

But scum Han also looks pretty bad doing that. Doesnt really make sense either way.

PunishedBen posted...

Me and Kirby both completely missed overtime, because we had a scheduled raid in FF14 right at deadline.

LOL at the Sbell kill. I thought him and Han were being way too lovey dovey, since they had an unwritten reason for town reading each other that I was just accepting. Han is probably scum too. And i cant think of a better way for lea to go out.

I find it strange you needed to justify our absence during overtime when literally nobody asked.
I mean, I can verify that you're telling the truth. But why bring it up? Feels like you're preemptively afraid of someone calling you out for it.

This feels like scum prattle from Ben. Or at least, if this is Town Ben, this is a pathetic showing compared to the legend from Nickelodeon Mafia.

masterplum posted...

Usually people are embarrassed to be wrong like that. Im surprised that town Han would just throw it out there

But scum Han also looks pretty bad doing that. Doesnt really make sense either way.

I mean Han literally prefaced his post with "I typed this up beforehand because I won't be around for day start". Can't exactly blame him for that.

I considered voting for Peaf before I left, saying "would rather Peaf over Han" because that's what it was looking like when I left. But I didn't want my vote to be sitting there without any chance to remove it if claims came out. I really didn't expect Isquen to get voted again there in the end. I won't lie and say I didn't want Isquen to be lynched there, so I'll accept the consequences and analysis of that. I probably would have left my vote there regardless even if I was there.

I do think Peaf looks good for not ending the tiebreaker himself. There's a chance of a crazy WIFOM there, but I think that chance is so low that I'm willing to give him the town credit for it.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ill start believing mislynches led by this dude are an accident when he actually flips town or gets scanned innocent. One an accident two a problem three a trend and all that.

Jokes on you, my scum lynch rate as town D1 is horrendous as well. Doesn't mean I'll give up trying though! Maybe give a good alternative lynch instead of blaming me for giving the only actual train of the day. Also saying "three a trend" would imply that I only try to lead lynches as scum. You'll remember that last game I was Town D1 when I tried leading a lynch on Plum. This is just a lie or bad attempt to discredit me.

Does anyone want to entertain any ideas of why Lea was killed? Sbell left his vote on Lea, so it's a little weird that Sbell was her murderer, especially when people were starting to feel not too good on Lea as the day drew on.

Fwiw, JC also left his vote on Lea. I don't know if that means anything, but it's worth noting. Another thing worth noting was this quote from Hb:

Hbthebattle posted...

my heart says sultan! my brain tells me this is impossible
lea is my preferred of the three top lynches though, i guess

And yet Hb continued to stay on Sultan. This could be a null tell, as Lea was proven town anyway, but if Hb is scum, this confirms Peaf as town even further, as Hb could have easily swung the vote to Isquen right at the end of the day. He was there!

Kirby321 posted...

And yet Hb continued to stay on Sultan. This could be a null tell, as Lea was proven town anyway, but if Hb is scum, this confirms Peaf as town even further, as Hb could have easily swung the vote to Isquen right at the end of the day. He was there!

i uh
tried to switch
post limit did not let me and when it went through the stop happened

check post 411 in the last topic lol

Kirby321 posted...

I feel like he was really hung up on Peaf for pretty much the entirety of D1, and I don't know how to feel about that. Seems a little too on-the-nose to be scummy, but it's still problematic.

Genuine question here, how do you define "hung up on" in this context? We had a scuffle early on, I ended that by giving a read about how I had a negative read on him at the end of it, and then I don't think we really interacted much the rest of the day?

When I had a conversation about my town reads later in the first half of the day, Peaf came in and said he agreed with my reads except with Han, but we didn't fight then.

Then after I did my night posts, Peaf accused me of not having a vote down and I responded back that he had made that mistake twice.

And then lastly there was a comment near the very end where Peaf himself said that I hadn't been targetting him since the beginning of the game, but I responded to him that he was still on my negative reads list.

This narrative that I was "hung up on Peaf the whole day" seems very shallow. I'm willing to own up to mistakes. I had a negative read on him early and he didn't do anything until literally time-out time to reverse that read. That's it.

3.241 By the way for Peaf himself posting that I hadn't been targetting him all day.

Peace___Frog posted...

Bullshit, by the way.

Dumey hasn't looked at me except for me not realizing his vote was on isq.

Furthermore, dumey is the kind of person to put in work regardless of alignment. He led the game in post count just last game, as scum, after lopen was lynched.

PunishedBen posted...

I'll say I at least agree with Han that Peaf is probably town, just for his actions during the Overtime segment. Not voting to save yourself is a big balls move and i think scum team would be screaming at him on the scum board to save himself and get the mislynch on Isquen there.

I would like to agree with this point regarding Peaf. I have to echo that being up for a tiebreaker and choosing not to end it to save yourself is crazy if you're bad, especially considering the tiebreaker round lasted over 5 minutes and anyone could have ended it.

I also get a good vibe from Plum for calling out Lea as a bad lynch near the end of day 1 in the chaos, as well as ending the tiebreaker. I feel like Peaf and Plum have to be the same team, and because of the above reasoning, I think it is likely town.

EDumey posted...

This narrative that I was "hung up on Peaf the whole day" seems very shallow. I'm willing to own up to mistakes. I had a negative read on him early and he didn't do anything until literally time-out time to reverse that read. That's it.

From my perspective, i did nothing different at day end when you were gone than then i did prior to that. Only difference was time.

You went from tunneling me (no vote) to tunneling isq (with vote). With sbell slipped as scum, in my mind it's even more damning that you outright refused to say anything about the interactions baten him and Han

UltimaterializerX posted...

I recall making a wonderful post about Sultan or Plum being scum on day one.

EDumey, Sultan, who else?

Ulti, can you at least confirm that you've caught up and read the game at this point? If your analysis of me being bad is just "Dumey didn't listen to me when I said the player that always gets D1 attention, that Dumey has never played with before, is Town, even though I haven't read the game to know anything," then I know I can safely disregard you. But if you've actually read the game, then I'll be happy to hear you explain how I was scummy.

Between*** him and Han.

But yes, it is true that anyone who says you were hung up on me is factually incorrect.

Kirby321 posted...

I find it strange you needed to justify our absence during overtime when literally nobody asked.
I mean, I can verify that you're telling the truth. But why bring it up? Feels like you're preemptively afraid of someone calling you out for it.

This feels like scum prattle from Ben. Or at least, if this is Town Ben, this is a pathetic showing compared to the legend from Nickelodeon Mafia.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Then he misses the days end and overtime. Pretty bad.

I was trying to help you out too before someone asks where you were. Why so mean

Peace___Frog posted...

From my perspective, i did nothing different at day end when you were gone than then i did prior to that. Only difference was time.

You went from tunneling me (no vote) to tunneling isq (with vote). With sbell slipped as scum, in my mind it's even more damning that you outright refused to say anything about the interactions baten him and Han

I'm not sure I understand the first half here. You not immediately ending the time breaker and saving your skin, is an incredibly different thing than trying to read you during the game. I think scum Peaf there definitely is willing to lynch Isquen instead of play a WIFOM game and hope someone save him.

I did comment about SBell and Han's early interaction, if that's what you're referring to. Is there a later interaction you're talking about?

Ulti... the other games were over a decade ago.

Red said he hates how i act like I'm not new to this era of b8fia and i get that, but in my defense I've lurked a whole lot of games over the past couple of years. Dumey has literally been back for one game. I wouldnt really take the stats from games that old to mean anything here.

Hbthebattle posted...

check post 411 in the last topic lol

Oop fair enough. My bad.

EDumey posted...

Genuine question here, how do you define "hung up on" in this context? We had a scuffle early on, I ended that by giving a read about how I had a negative read on him at the end of it, and then I don't think we really interacted much the rest of the day?

When I had a conversation about my town reads later in the first half of the day, Peaf came in and said he agreed with my reads except with Han, but we didn't fight then.

Then after I did my night posts, Peaf accused me of not having a vote down and I responded back that he had made that mistake twice.

And then lastly there was a comment near the very end where Peaf himself said that I hadn't been targetting him since the beginning of the game, but I responded to him that he was still on my negative reads list.

This narrative that I was "hung up on Peaf the whole day" seems very shallow. I'm willing to own up to mistakes. I had a negative read on him early and he didn't do anything until literally time-out time to reverse that read. That's it.

I could have sworn you had almost an entire page in the forbidden archives of you talking about Peaf, but I'm looking back and finding myself mistaken. I didn't write any notes down for you like I did with my Peaf ISO, but I think what pinged me and made me think you were obsessed with Peaf was this post (T2, #398):

EDumey posted...

I just realized I'm going to be missing deadline because it's later than it was last game.

We should lynch Isquen or maybe Peaf. People voting Sultan have nothing. The votes on Lea are all past-experience reads and I can't evaluate those accurately.