Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 11 - Hangin With Mr Kooper

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ok, so you think a scum team having 3 pseudo-bulletproofs is impossible, while you're a-ok with

• 3 extra kills on scum
• a town player whose powers don't actually work

Hbthebattle posted...

Ok, so you think a scum team having 3 pseudo-bulletproofs is impossible, while you're a-ok with
* 3 extra kills on scum
* a town player whose powers don't actually work

Nah, 3 extra kills is impossible, but I wouldnt be shocked to see matching text from reds pm

I think if two scum live to N5 they just win right?

Town power that doesnt work correctly I have seen before yeah, especially in a backup type position

I feel like Ive been churning through scenarios that could make sense and Im getting tired so Ill try to figure it out tomorrow

Again its frustrating because I already know the answer. Im trying to come up with an explanation that makes sense because I cant just say just trust me bro

masterplum posted...

I have been spinning to figure this out so I dont know what you are referring to

I have killing power.

If Peaf or Hb out themselves as scum by hammering the lynch, I have a 50% shot of killing them at nighttime before succumbing to my burn.

Therefore, if either were scum, then they'd have to make the hammer on you look organic so that I wouldn't suspect them of being scum and potentially kill them.

Again, pretty much an impossible scenario that either are actually scum, but a lack of hammering doesn't necessarily equate to cleared town.

So do you think that is actually a scenario worth considering then?

I've kind of written off HB and Peaf, do you think either is worth scrutinizing?

I don't think either are worth scrutinizing. I don't think I'm worth scrutinizing, either.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't think either are worth scrutinizing. I don't think I'm worth scrutinizing, either.

Well you are obviously biased in that regard. I also don't think I'm worth scrutinizing

I agree with you though. Running through scenarios I don't see a realistic way to win this game if HB and peaf are scum. Peaf has looked good. HB has a scan on him. If either are scum I don't think any action today is going to protect us against that possibility without also massively tanking us against any other options.

So that leaves us with Kirby/Me/Ulti

Let's reduce this to the bare bones and look at this as objectively as possible:

At that point the best option is still to lynch Ulti.

• If Ulti is scum we win immediately
• If Kirby is scum he doesn't die tonight and we kill him at 3.
• If I am scum Kirby has already targeted me with one of his two possible actions. He can just use the other one

Regardless of who is scum in those 3 we win

The only possible way we lose is if Ulti for whatever reason is scum and also doesn't die to jump. I don't think this is likely as I talked about yesterday, but there is no reason to take that chance.

So lynch ulti and the only possible way we lose is if HB or Peaf is scum.

Also I am sure town is extremely annoyed at this dragging out as it probably doesn't matter at all but I care pretty deeply about not punting games by making stupid decisions that could potentially open up setups where we lose

Plum, you've already agreed that for me to be scum, I'm likely hiding some night action up my sleeve, because I'm dead to rights if I'm still alive tomorrow. So why would I claim burned if I didn't have a way to win the game tonight as scum?

I'd like to present the same argument to the court.

If we don't kill Scum today, then we leave the door open for any shenanigans that we, the town, are completely uninformed of. We don't know what the last scum is capable of. We should not leave anything to chance and attempt to settle this score today rather than delay. Scum knows everything about us, the town, yet we do not know what they have besides a one-shot burn.

I have evidence to suggest Plum is lying about his flavor. We have every incentive to lynch him today while we, the town, have full control. Do not let scum convince you all to spare his life for an extra day. The safest play for us is to lynch the person who we think is likely to be scum. Trying to gambit around my role is not a safe bet.

In conclusion, Your Honor, my client Ulti is innocent.

As you wish, Kirby.

##vote: plum

Luigi: Look-a at my overalls! They're-a burnt!
Toad A: What happened?
Luigi: I jumped on-a him and my butt was suddenly on-a fire!
Toad B: Hmmm...
Toad C: Maybe he's a Star Spirit! If you think about it, the sun is a star, and you'd probably get burnt if you jumped on it.
Toad B: You're right. Maybe we should kill someone else. Or just sit around and watch you burn to death, then go from there.
Luigi: What-a are you a-talking about!? I'm a-dying here!

Just then, a voice rang out from the back of the mob.

Spike: Never fear, Spike is here!

He launched a spiny egg at the mysterious figure, destroying him on the spot.

plum has been lynched!

How does a plant survive in lava? No one knows but you managed to pull it off. Making your nest in Mt. Lavalava, you were entrusted by Bowser to protect the Star Spirit Misstar. Your greatest weapon is your fire, which is indeed very hot, and the burns can be deadly if not treated quickly.

You are Lava Piranha, KOOPA TROOP Burner. Once during this game, you may target a player and guess their role. If you guess correctly, they will be burned and will die during the following night phase if it is not healed. If you are incorrect, the action will fail. This will not cause you to lose your ability, but you will be seen visiting the target by any scanners.

You win when the Koopa Troops victory becomes inevitable.

Hb has won!

Your really the main cog in this entire story. Bowser has kidnapped you for the umpteenth time and Mario is attempting to rescue you. Stop me if youve heard this before. While youre currently locked away in Bowsers castle, you can vote by sending a message through Twink. This is just for flavor, you can vote normally in the game. However, this is all you can do as your currently being held captive. Still, you are an important ally for our heroes.

You are Princess Peach, TOWN Vanilla. Aside from your vote, you have no powers.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

Kirby has won!

The hat. The overalls. The mustache. Need I say more? Youre the hero, the star of the show, and everyones counting on you. Well, that was the case in 2013, anyway. In 2023, youre stuck at home on stand-by. Speaking of which, isnt about time for another Year of Luigi? Should anything happen to Mario, youre always ready to step in and carry the torch as best you can. Mario is Mario for a reason, and no one can really take his place, but youre the next best thing.

You are Luigi, TOWN Back-up Hero. If Mario is eliminated from the game, you will inherit his powers, but they will be slightly weakened. These powers will be explained when you inherit them. For now, your only ability is your vote.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

It's Luigi time!

Mario has died, and it's up to you to take his place! As well as you can, anyway. You now have the following actions (which can be used starting tonight)

HAMMER: You will attack the target with your hammer, killing them if you make contact. Whether or not the attack lands will depend on the target. If you target a player that resists your hammer attack, your action will simply fail.

JUMP: You will jump on the target, killing them if your attack is successful. Whether or not the attack lands will depend on the target. If you target a player that resists your jump, your action will fail AND you will sustain negative effects, depending on the target. However, a successful jump that kills an anti-town target will make your next jump risk-free.

* Please note that you do not receive any bonuses mentioned in Mario's role that are not mentioned here

Peaf has won!

Although you originally worked for the bad guys, you were captivated by Mario's coolness and decide to join him. You really want to show your girlfriend how strong you are, and taking down Bowser would be a good way to do that. Mario can jump on your back to hover over hazardous surfaces, but it doesnt seem like that will come in handy this time around. Still, you are an important ally for our heroes.

You are Michael wait, Spike hold on. Let me check my notes...

You are Lakilester, TOWN Vanilla. Aside from your vote, you have no powers.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

Ulti has won!

Ive never seen a spirit with a body like that. Well, actually youre the same shape as all the other Star Spirits, but that face that pink coloration even a Goomba would fall head over heels for you. Unfortunately, your powers have been sealed, so theres not much you can do at the moment. Still, you are an important ally for our heroes.

You are Misstar, TOWN Vanilla. Aside from your vote, you have no powers.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

TOWN WINS

Classic slug-speed victory

Dead town chat: https://discord.gg/Rqm8KpQr
Scum board: https://discord.gg/YvNgjYMJ

Good endgame work, Kirby and Ulti.

There was a change to lynch Ulti and have Town win with a single person alive but oh well

Kirby finally wins at end game. A historic moment

Gg everyone who isn't me lol

It's finally over...

Oh and yeah uhm
My saves wouldnt stop burning

*looks at Plum's role*

Hot damn that's an interesting role. Lucky guess that Cody was Vanilla?

ggs y'all
That was a fun game (and I'm not saying that because I'm finally on the winning team lol)

You guys mob-murdered Mario

You monsters

gg all

Also that deadline was still mean

Also I got covid last friday, so following this was double pain!

Star Spirits upgrades:
Eldstar - Burn Healer (after Koopa Bros. die)
Muskular - Bodyguard (after General Guy dies)
Misstar - Roleblocker (after Lava Piranha dies)

Hammer-proof:
Lady Bow
Watt
Eldstar
Muskular
Misstar
Peach (action failed)
Lakilester
Kooper
Bowser (action failed)
Koopa Bros.
General Guy
Jr. Troopa (N3 and N4)

Jump-proof:
Watt (Paralyze)
Peach (action failed)
Lakilester (death)
Bowser (action failed)
Lava Piranha (Burn)
Jr. Troopa (N2 and N4)

Wait, Ben was actually right about the Star Spirits having sealed powers?

So I immediately guessed Han was Goombario when he towncleared me saying shell game. I didn't trust it completely before reading day 2 again and trying to find a similar hint there. It was pretty obvious to me he scanned JC now, though I had trouble finding the exact hint, I had some ideas. A lot of Han's posts suddenly made sense. With SBell's flip on top of that I felt he was 99% town confirmed. From that point I planted to draw a shot for Han by claiming Goombario. Though that Han had also towncleared me meant that we had to find something for him too. I considered phychic and prosty variants along with neighborizer that Han ended up using. It wasn't flawless, but I tried to make it seem like we had purposely been a bit weird to confuse scum, which wasn't completely false.

It ended up being the perfect play not claiming right away because it gave two extra scans and not just 1 more from having switched. Han had to communicate to me he scanned Red as Jr. Troopa though. He manages to that seemingly with no one else catching on, so that was nice. He revealed so later. I never claimed the n1 action from him, partly because I couldn't say I had scanned JC with how I spoke to him d2 but also due to the off chance I had been roleblocked n1, so I got qway with saying I had nothing useful.

Ultimately, it worked and I think the scans on red and Hb were crucial to town winning. It was quite the pleasure to get into DTC seeing them as confused as the alive players and also for the praise of not only pulling that off but also ending the game on a 100% game solve. Probably my best game in a while. Lots of fun and especially for a flavor I really like. Thank you for hosting, MZero!

I'll say this I was gonna target Plum if I didn't die! So I'll take my day 1 and 2 reads on Ben and Plum as a small victory

Kirby321 posted...

Wait, Ben was actually right about the Star Spirits having sealed powers?

loooooooool

also i said it a bunch in the dtc but mad props to han and ctes for their ridiculous gambit

just wow

I thought this was a really fun game. Huge potential to be swingy, but it had a lot of personality and novelty that I think will make it memorable for years to come. Great job MZero.

And gg Scum. Some solid play on your end. Plum, you tried really hard at the end there, but your option was basically only lynch Kirby, and you weren't getting away with that, unfortunately.

Think MZero did an amazing job on this

Weirdest thing about the game was scum not considering killing Han or Ctes or more directly considering a real cop was in the game until ctes claimed to be one

I almost feel like they subliminally believed Ben's fake claim existed or something? Mario's limited scans and a Jack is not enough scanning for 17, you know?

Lopen posted...

Weirdest thing about the game was scum not considering killing Han or Ctes or more directly considering a real cop was in the game until ctes claimed to be one

I definitely wanted to murder han on i think it was n2?. My only question is did death save him of not.

I did not.
I targeted JC

Lopen posted...

Weirdest thing about the game was scum not considering killing Han or Ctes or more directly considering a real cop was in the game until ctes claimed to be one

I almost feel like they subliminally believed Ben's fake claim existed or something? Mario's limited scans and a Jack is not enough scanning for 17, you know?

You only really get two chances to hunt power before you're put into a set path of dealing with the claimed power who are threatening you. That first hit on Lea pretty much ruined our momentum permanently because we hit something far worse than just vanilla there. Second night was a good shot at power at death who could have been the doctor or that cop. From there on out the actions were set because of threats from JC, Kirby, and Ctes. (But actually it was Han)

I just think the game was lost night 3 when you guys killed JC and didn't even really discuss it either. With so few unclaimed I feel like getting the actual hiding scanner over a jack is a no brainer

Kill ctes or Han night 3 and that game goes way differently.

Thank you to everyone for playing and to Lopen for helping with balancing! I had a lot of fun putting this together and hosting. I think I should have made the mechanics of the Star Spirits and hammer/jump kills more apparent.

Who would've thought that none of the Spirits would activate and neither infinite shot vigilante would get a kill

Scum played well, honestly. Sbell blowing up was very unfortunate, but it was a surprise. And Ben and Dumey lived for quite a while. Red might've gotten away without Han's scan, and Plum got PoE'd after many people asserted he was town.

I hereby redub this game as "Star Spirit Seeker, Back-Up Hero, and Goombario Mafia"

That took a long time! I even knew it was Plum. The logic was too sound, and him constantly changing his mind made it obvious he was panicking and trying to see if anything could stick. If I were town and being ganged up on, I'd have repeated the same argument: "You lynch me, Kirby burns up, scum kills HB, that's game." while going after Ulti.

Kirby and Ulti: Great work there! (Though, Ulti, just FYI, if someone has a migraine, it's nice to let them rest.)

That was a nice final day to read, honestly. I wasn't able to keep up earlier. Too much going on. But, hey, reading these gives me experience, too.

Out of curiosity, JC, what was your night action when you died?

Lopen posted...

I just think the game was lost night 3 when you guys killed JC and didn't even really discuss it either. With so few unclaimed I feel like getting the actual hiding scanner over a jack is a no brainer

Kill ctes or Han night 3 and that game goes way differently.

100% - the red scan was really what locked the game in for town.

lol just like everybody in the actual game too i thought kirby was scum after his first few shitposts for some reason

excellent communication between ctes and han, well done

poor mario :(

Kirby321 posted...

Out of curiosity, JC, what was your night action when you died?

Tracked Hb - I was worried about the chance of it being like, a 3 vanilla endgame and I wanted to scan someone who just... wasn't being talked about to get some info on them

Also Death protecting SBell n1 but getting roleblocked is all kinds of hilarious.

changmas posted...

lol just like everybody in the actual game too i thought kirby was scum after his first few shitposts for some reason

excellent communication between ctes and han, well done

poor mario :(

Oh yeah, when you PMed me saying "I think Kirby is scum" I didn't respond because I forgot you weren't in the game lol

changmas posted...

lol just like everybody in the actual game too i thought kirby was scum after his first few shitposts for some reason

Take this from the guy who is always labeled as scum for his shitposts alone... put no stock in them.

htaeD posted...

I did not.
I targeted JC

Yeah i definitely regret not pushing to murder han harder.

Without his save on Peaf, Plum might die before Ben

I checked my notes when I was deciding my n1 scan and I had a lot of things semi-correct there, but I really let myself get distracted from some of those initial reads.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Also Death protecting SBell n1 but getting roleblocked is all kinds of hilarious.

Wait really? LMFAO

Yeah that n1 was disheartening as heck.