Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic DS9: Kadir beneath Mo Moteh

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chris asks Han some questions, and Han says they aren't good questions. Chris votes Han for being grumpy.

SirChris posted...

##vote: han

you feel grumpy. I don't like it. Be less grumpy or die in obscurity tbh

So Chris strikes first. But not for a reason that will actually damage Han's place in the game at all. All of his prior votes had deeper arguments behind them than this.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

All this talk about Lea and she's probably just busy.

I'm not grumpy at all. I'm also probably a little bit geared to see your posts with mistrust because earlier in the day you said something I didn't like so I've been modestly wary of you since.

Anyway, if you want me to go into details about why your questions were not compelling, you'll have to wait about 5 hours, so

Han's response to the vote. So I will note that Han is still aware of the "I'm keeping my eye" on you he said at the beginning of the day

wallmasterz posted...

Look, ulti is basically confirmed town. That leaves

Me
Ben
Sultan

Han
Lea
Dumey

jc
ctes
===========

Im in the unique position of knowing Im not town which no one else does, I realize. But I am town and I definitely think Sultan is town. Ben, Im on the fence, but even if hes scum, there has to be scum in one of the other groups. Unless you think me, sultan and Ben are all scum and thats correct (it isnt), at least one of Han/Lea/Dumey and ctes/jc contains scum.

In my opinion, ctes flipping is probably the most informative (mis)lynch either way because getting a definitive answer on the events of n1 would help us, and ctes also claims to have affected the events of n3.

If ctes flips town then jc is probably 99% town?

But at the same time i am torn because while scum would need some serious firepower, town having a bp doctor and jack with an EK is wow. Thats why I started thinking about the Han/Lea/Dumey group more closely last night. Of the three Lea and Han both had votes for Chris that make them look really good. Dumey was among those voting for death and arguably led the charge. IF Dumey is scum, mentioning considering a claim right off the jump makes the most sense if he is godfather. He would want to invite a scan in that case. Drum up peoples curiosity about his role, possibly have someone scan him right away. And there would be the added bonus to scum of wasting a scan and then cop might be soft defending Dumey while trying to maintain their own anonymity, which would help scum figure out who town cop was.

Wallz let me ask you something. Slip up of you calling yourself not town aside, who do you think the full scum team is at this point? If I told you there were three scum remaining, would you feel confident in your PoE saying that all three of Ctes/JC/Dumey are scum? Or is it only one of Ctes or JC/Dumey/Han?

I don't quite understand why you're putting Ben and Sultan so far out of your PoE when they're closer to the scum side of my own, so I'm trying to understand how you've made this conclusion. It certainly doesn't make me feel good seeing one of the people (you) that is in the middle of my PoE putting up a hard shield for the other people I suspect as well.

PunishedBen posted...

Chris asks Han some questions, and Han says they aren't good questions. Chris votes Han for being grumpy.

SirChris posted...
##vote: han

you feel grumpy. I don't like it. Be less grumpy or die in obscurity tbh

So Chris strikes first. But not for a reason that will actually damage Han's place in the game at all. All of his prior votes had deeper arguments behind them than t

But do you think this is a bus? This is actually an interesting find

Well Lea, we know absolutely nothing about what scum already has or what they might have already have used or whatever yet I am told I automatically lynch Ulti with my role. This is despite of two nights having had no scum kills which n3 can literally only be explained by Ulti's role or scum not shooting (n1 they can also have shot at Death I suppose). It's not like you can't look at setup at all, but I think he usually tries to deduce the town and scum equity in actions a lot more and I see basically none of that.

I like and dislike this last post by Dumey..
Part of it reads "what do you mean you don't agree with me and my POE list. How dare you think differently than me"

But the other part seems more like but huh why do you think differently than me.

I am still not entirely convinced he is. I think that role if it exists feel kinda wrong in itself. My role is also limited.

I used the bus drive under full assumption that Ulti would get shot. If he's truthful then we already know scum has a way of preventing him if being successful that just isn't a RB.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I like and dislike this last post by Dumey..
Part of it reads "what do you mean you don't agree with me and my POE list. How dare you think differently than me"

But the other part seems more like but huh why do you think differently than me.

It's less "How dare you" and more, "Interesting that the two people I've stated I want dead for three days now are defending each other."

Also Sultan, you've made a couple comments about people only disliking you for your claim but that's not entirely true. Several people made comments about your play D2 which you got frustrated about if you remember. At that time we (Or I at the very least) were willing to give it a pass because of your interaction with Chris. Ben is apparently trying to clear your name by going through and listing all your interactions with Chris D1, which I am taking into account. But the thing I'm wrestling in my head regarding you is whether or not Chris actually was trying to get you lynched D1 or just setting up a bus for later.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Uh oh lol

ctesjbuvf posted...

Do you mean n2 and not n3 here?

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't get this paragraph sorry. If you know I am town, you know that scum was not the cause of the redirection?

Sorry, I was about three and a half hours late getting to my morning cup of coffee lol. First one was a typo, second one yes youre right, third one youre right - the third isnt even a typo its just due to me having (seemingly wrongly) all but convinced myself scum did the redirecting before you full claimed.

Dumey, will respond but need some time due to work duties. I dont really like your comment about me targeting town power as if to discourage it when the odds of no claimed town power being scum are slim to none.

Looking back at Hans reaction to no one dying n3, it almost reads more as incredulous scum than town. We lost no one and Hans first question is ultis flavor? N3 is either the first or (if ctes is indeed town) second time scums nk has failed and your first thought is to ask clarification on the uncountered doctors flavor? And then stepping away for 36 hours of d4, I totally believe Han having irl responsibilities but he admitted to being pissed and attributed it to being falsely accused. Sure its possible but another explanation is he was pissed off the NK failed.

wallmasterz posted...

I dont really like your comment about me targeting town power as if to discourage it when the odds of no claimed town power being scum are slim to none.

I don't think I ever said this.

Did anyone chastise Wallz about targetting town power recently? Serious question.

EDumey posted...

It's less "How dare you" and more, "Interesting that the two people I've stated I want dead for three days now are defending each other."

Also Sultan, you've made a couple comments about people only disliking you for your claim but that's not entirely true. Several people made comments about your play D2 which you got frustrated about if you remember. At that time we (Or I at the very least) were willing to give it a pass because of your interaction with Chris. Ben is apparently trying to clear your name by going through and listing all your interactions with Chris D1, which I am taking into account. But the thing I'm wrestling in my head regarding you is whether or not Chris actually was trying to get you lynched D1 or just setting up a bus for later.

What about my day 2 did you not like? That I didn't want to join in on lynching Isquen and was pushing other alternatives?

Oh day 2. What about my day 2?

Wall, trying to read something out of nothing is not a particularly good move.

I'm at the point right now catching up where I would have said BCT is Town but Ben is Scum, because Ben never misreads me as far as I can remember. And he's been dragging his feet so the moment I get mislynched and we get to the next day he can say "oh, now I've finished reading day 1 and can see that Han was Town lol"

It's also insane for me to be the person who has most been considering that night actions and set-up is wonky and that people are trying to push to me. Almost like Scum is down one, maybe two kills, so they need to get a mislynch on somebody where they can who has also been asking important questions.

Wall, I somewhat liked your read ok Ctes/JC, but why can you not see Ctes as Town and JC as Scum?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Ulti had a tiff about it yesterday and start of today too

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Wall, trying to read something out of nothing is not a particularly good move.

So you asking ulti to claim flavor as (I think) your first post of d4 is nothing? Or are you referring to something else?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I can't help shake the feeling that Wallz was told he was targetting too much town power on his scum board and slipped. But surely a tired man wouldn't make two slips in a row like that, right? >_>

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

What about my day 2 did you not like? That I didn't want to join in on lynching Isquen and was pushing other alternatives?

It was about your style of play. I remember specifically you getting frustrated with Crescent calling you out, but I had just made a post about it too. That normally I was used to you finding a decent recent to not like someone, then tunneling and digging in on that person. But instead you were kind of all over the place, throwing suspicion at anything that moved, then when people told you you were mistaken, just backing off and immediately jumping at the next thing. It reminded me that Chris had called you out for not being as "ankle biting" as you used to be, and it felt like you were trying to bite ankles to correct that.

Mostly it can be attributed to, "The last two games with Sultan I played where everyone easily town cleared him based on his play alone is not the same as the Sultan in this game."

And Ctes, I said sorry, but if you're going to make an argument that I am Scum, you have to accuse me of willingly doing something I hate and asking Chris to beat on me for no needed reason.

You also have to accuse me AND Chris of some supposed shitty strategy.

Like, I hate to toot my own horn here, but I'm not so dumb as to engage in a planned Scummate vs Scummate interaction that makes Chris look bad enough to lynch and I'm not the one spearheading his lynch.

tl;dr - it's illogical to accuse me of bussing when I wasn't driving the bus.

wallmasterz posted...

So you asking ulti to claim flavor as (I think) your first post of d4 is nothing? Or are you referring to something else?

Definitely don't like you responding to Han's most recent post and ignoring me there. Not one bit.

EDumey posted...

I can't help shake the feeling that Wallz was told he was targetting too much town power on his scum board and slipped. But surely a tired man wouldn't make two slips in a row like that, right? >_>

It was about your style of play. I remember specifically you getting frustrated with Crescent calling you out, but I had just made a post about it too. That normally I was used to you finding a decent recent to not like someone, then tunneling and digging in on that person. But instead you were kind of all over the place, throwing suspicion at anything that moved, then when people told you you were mistaken, just backing off and immediately jumping at the next thing. It reminded me that Chris had called you out for not being as "ankle biting" as you used to be, and it felt like you were trying to bite ankles to correct that.

Mostly it can be attributed to, "The last two games with Sultan I played where everyone easily town cleared him based on his play alone is not the same as the Sultan in this game."

So youre saying trying to solve the game and dig into different reads is scummy Dumey?

Oh boy... putting some pressure on reads is litterally the whole point of Mafia is it not?

wallmasterz posted...

So you asking ulti to claim flavor as (I think) your first post of d4 is nothing? Or are you referring to something else?

My "reaction" to the night kill, or lack of one. I don't generally react to night kills, most all of the time, anyway. Too busy, you know, hunting Scum instead of putting on a show.

What you should be looking at is anyone who reacted to the lack of a kill with "WOW ULTI YOURE BEAUTIFUL" because tbh, that reads as overselling it. Clown make-up, if you will.

So then what was your motive in asking ulti to claim flavor? You were suspicious of the uncountered doctor claim after almost certainly one, if not two nights of scums NK being blocked?

Sorry for not sulking around and having a bad attitude after no townies died. You caught me Han. The doctor? Like Dr. Who?

damn, unparalleled scum hunting to start the day

Here's a set-up meta point against JC:

So far, from what we've seen, his role serves almost no purpose for Town.

If all claims except his are true, then Town has 4 members for him to target and reveal, and Scum has a single NK.

3 or 4 Scum, whichever it is, we've seen one drop with no night action. Supposedly there's an unblockable... There could be a Scum scanner. Apparently no Scum CC.

Like, at that point, you consider JC, if Town, to be a pro-Scum role anyway. He could catch a vanilla moving, sure, but with what action?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

So youre saying trying to solve the game and dig into different reads is scummy Dumey?

Oh boy... putting some pressure on reads is litterally the whole point of Mafia is it not?

No. I'm saying that current game ??? Sultan looking different from previous game Town Sultan is scummy. I don't feel like I'm being combative or mean here Sultan, so not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth here. I was just clarifying that there were personal reads on you as well, not just "people don't like me because of my claim."

Here's a role meta point for JC. Him being scum requires Ulti to be truthful about BP, scum to have shot Ulti twice (or shot Death n1 as well) and Ben being town since otherwise scum doesn't scan him and find out about the redirection.

It's pretty unlikely.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80379989

when you hit 450

wallmasterz posted...

Sorry for not sulking around and having a bad attitude after no townies died. You caught me Han. The doctor? Like Dr. Who?

damn, unparalleled scum hunting to start the day

Do you think you have a good point here? Because you really, really don't.

Btw, I was checking back at the start of day and:
Chaeix posted...

god I really dont like how much Han and Lea rest their laurels on well I lynched Chris!

well so did literally every other possible lynch candidate today

JC is deliberately misrepresenting me here. I have not defended myself a single time for lynching Chris.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Here's a role meta point for JC. Him being scum requires Ulti to be truthful about BP, scum to have shot Ulti twice (or shot Death n1 as well) and Ben being town since otherwise scum doesn't scan him and find out about the redirection.

It's pretty unlikely.

This is incorrect, Ctes.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Good! I liked it way more than I expected.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Most of my reads from BCT come from identifying him as Scum the first time based on his first post, and him seeming to get way more upset in every other game where he's suspected more (as Town). Also, him and Sultan did the same dance in a past game.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

This is incorrect, Ctes.

They can also have shot Crescent and scanned Crescent n1, otherwise it's true.

Also Han, I want to say that I did appreciate your apology yesterday, I didn't get to answer it at the time because the lynch was hammered before I saw it.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Do you think you have a good point here? Because you really, really don't.

I think merely pointing out you having a bad attitude after no townies die overnight (whether correlation equals causation or not) and then your first course of action is asking the most confirmed town person in the game their flavor is perfectly valid, yes.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Here's a role meta point for JC. Him being scum requires Ulti to be truthful about BP, scum to have shot Ulti twice (or shot Death n1 as well) and Ben being town since otherwise scum doesn't scan him and find out about the redirection.

It's pretty unlikely.

Why couldn't scum shoot Ulti's save target one of those nights? Shoot Death or Crescent N1. Unblockable N2. Test Ulti's BP N3.

wallmasterz posted...

I think merely pointing out you having a bad attitude after no townies die overnight (whether correlation equals causation or not) and then your first course of action is asking the most confirmed town person in the game their flavor is perfectly valid, yes.

I have a bad attitude when people mistakenly accuse me. You have direct evidence of that on D1.

EDumey posted...

Why couldn't scum shoot Ulti's save target one of those nights? Shoot Death or Crescent N1. Unblockable N2. Test Ulti's BP N3.

Yeah I just replied to had they could have shot Crescent n1, it just requires them to have scanned the same person. I already included Death.

ctesjbuvf posted...

They can also have shot Crescent and scanned Crescent n1, otherwise it's true.

Also Han, I want to say that I did appreciate your apology yesterday, I didn't get to answer it at the time because the lynch was hammered before I saw it.

It's a good point.

I think I have one counter, but it's not a for-sure one... let me go check.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No I dont. Well, not in the vacuum of a single game (there could be some benefit based on perceived scumtells etc. but that gets into wifom territory I guess).

i think if Han is scum, he was pissed no town died and frustration got the better of him so he fired off a post he may now regret with no strategic benefit.

I mean, aside from you and JC being Scum together.

Scum shoots Death, JC scans Crescent.
N2 Scum shoots Crescent, JC pretends to be redirected.
N3 Scum shoots Ulti.

That's a possible fit.

wallmasterz posted...

No I dont. Well, not in the vacuum of a single game (there could be some benefit based on perceived scumtells etc. but that gets into wifom territory I guess).

i think if Han is scum, he was pissed no town died and frustration got the better of him so he fired off a post he may now regret with no strategic benefit.

You realize I had two bad votes on me, right?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Scum shoots Death, JC scans Crescent.
N2 Scum shoots Crescent, JC pretends to be redirected.
N3 Scum shoots Ulti.

No, he's truthful about the redirection.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I have a bad attitude when people mistakenly accuse me. You have direct evidence of that on D1.

I definitely acknowledge the possibility of having a bad attitude and not being scum. I struggle with understanding why you wanted to know ultis flavor after the night which essentially confirmed him as town.

Does no one else notice Wallz trucking along like I don't exist? I'm used to this neglect from Ulti, but not our star new player. T_T

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You realize I had two bad votes on me, right?

I think how bad they were is still debatable, but assuming they were wrong, I dont see what ultis flavor has to do with anything.