Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic DS9: Kadir beneath Mo Moteh

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PunishedBen
03/14/23 9:58:42 PM
#351:


undefined posted... SIR_CHRIS SAYS...
I remember Sultan being in his don't trust anyone era when I left. He would usually find some reason to vote me in like 5 minutes and bite my ankles

No ankle biting so far.
First inclination of Chris going after Sultan and....

undefined posted... SULTAN OF THE SLAM SAYS...
I'd like to think I've grown since what over a year and a half ago?
Sultan's response is so natural I'm inclined to say it doesnt look like bussing. If Chris is scum here and Sultan knows it, I would expect something a little more "ackshually, I've got my eye on you, bub!!!" from Sultan

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wallmasterz
03/14/23 10:01:32 PM
#352:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


All fair. If you havent noticed Im running down the list and trying to get reactions. As crescent said before dying, the PoE was megadisasterously off with sheep and isquen both flipping scum. Gotta consider everyone.

Lea do you really think Dumey is definitely town? Like as close to 100% as you can be?

And it goes without saying but youd never get lynched before Dumey.

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wallmasterz
03/14/23 10:02:22 PM
#353:


*sheep and isquen both flipping town


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#354
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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:18:35 PM
#355:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Another quick thought on sheep.

1. Either he knows BCT is town
2. He thinks BCT is easy to read.

He seems very confident that BCT is town.

Sheep007 posted...
Do you particularly think BCT is hard to read, Sultan? You said yourself you were confident BCT is Town on page three, and it's about the only solid read you've given.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Not nessisarily. I think this Is town BCT, your thought kind of match mine rereading but it seems to come from a place of knowing. But Maybe BCT is just an easy read for you like I said.

Other person that looks pretty towny to me I'd say is Creasent. I've seen her play town plenty of times and so far she is hunting even trudging though shit posts to make reads. I like that from her..
Oh man, yeah I really think Sultan is town straight up. This is a tough one to explain but hopefully people can see my point... and no its not because Sultan thought my slot was town lol. Its because he suspects Sheep for being too confident BCT is town. Accuses him of potentially knowing BCT is town. This I think is a very town thought. As scum you know who is town and who is not, but you have a much harder time reading others' confidence levels because you dont know their mind and you are not one with the town flow.

I think it is genuine that Sultan town-reads BCT here and interprets Sheep's same thoughts as knowing too much. The alternative scenario where Sultan is scum requires him to pick someone who he knows is town and call them out in a way that outs that Sultan himself knows too much.... I'm still not explaining this right.

Makes sense as a town thought but not as a scum one. There ya go.

Explaining myself is the hardest part of this game. Look forward to my summary at the end of this where i just tell you who to vote and hopefully enough of us agree

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HanOfTheNekos
03/14/23 10:38:39 PM
#356:


To answer you, Ben, I thought BCT was Town, yes.
I agree that I think Sultan is Town (though wait until you see how hard he turns on BCT).

To answer you, Lea, and the question you never asked, I saw Tootsie.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/14/23 10:41:19 PM
#357:


HanOfTheNekos posted...
To answer you, Ben, I thought BCT was Town, yes.
I agree that I think Sultan is Town (though wait until you see how hard he turns on BCT).

To answer you, Lea, and the question you never asked, I saw Tootsie.

To be fair the BCT Turn is majorly based. On that reaction to the Being scanned thing and that not adding up with the vanilla claim is that so wrong?!

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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:42:16 PM
#358:


I just got to topic 2. This is going to take way longer than I thought.

Sultan VS BCT i caught some of when it happened and it doesn't surprise me. Even when both town they've done it before

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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:47:04 PM
#359:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
I thought you said you beat yakuza?

SirChris posted...
I just said there is a post game dungeon I didn't know about.

I didn't expect mafia crime dragon quest ok this is too good.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...
My bad i got excited that I caught a scum slip to exsplain inactivity lol

BOOM. Sultan is town. We are done with him. I can now skim over his posts in less detail and hopefully speed this up by 1/14th

Nobody let me forget this. When Sultan thought he caught Chris in a scum slip. Sultan doesnt pull this on a Chris scum buddy lol


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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:49:38 PM
#360:


And its mildly disappointing because before reading day 1 Sultan was in my POE. My spirit animal Sheep even didnt like him. Unfortunately Sheep was wrong about that. Lets see if he comes around.

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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:50:18 PM
#361:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Catching Chris is like catching a Shark. Very hard but would be awesome.


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PunishedBen
03/14/23 10:50:57 PM
#362:


Sultan my Sweet Kaouhai.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/14/23 11:05:19 PM
#363:


Now does Ben does all this supporting of me as scum while being on my POE? IDK but Ben is doing alot of work in this re read.

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PunishedBen
03/14/23 11:56:09 PM
#364:


Lol I'm destroying BCT's legacy. I'm calling it how i see it though and I challenge anyone to disagree with the posts in #359

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PunishedBen
03/15/23 1:11:30 AM
#365:


Nearing end of topic 2.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...
To be fair I am starting to get a bit of the God Father coming our if you. Pushing your agenda. But not as strong as other games when you were scum and I should have kept pushing the peddle.

The Chris fear around these parts is real
So far Sultan is still the only one poking at Chris. Han has been passive towards Chris since the keeping my eyes on you interaction, and joined Chris to vote for Sheep. But I'm still not to the part Chris is seriously considered for lynch yet, so it must come late like i thought. I'm gonna have to go to bed now because work tomorrow.

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PunishedBen
03/15/23 1:25:19 AM
#366:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Man are the people who think Im scummy going to feel silly tomorrow lmao

Scum should TOTALLY roleblock and shoot me tonight btw. Itll be even funnier!
Ulti, why did you say tomorrow? Did you always plan on claiming by day 2?

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#367
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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 6:39:02 AM
#368:


ctesjbuvf posted...
Lea, we've had a few lines of you about knowing Han really well. Do you not think he usually tries to solve the game a lot less based on the setup?

Would really like the input here.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 7:56:17 AM
#369:


You know it's interesting we had to most activity today when Ctes was under some pressure. I feel so many people just let him off the hook..

Looking at Dumey and walls over Ctes? People want me beacuse of only my claim which is just bad, if jc wasn't confirmed town I'd look his way.. he hasn't even considered my play just oh well I can't scan you so i guess we just lynch you beacuse we can't get more info. This is just bad logic and kind of anti town

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:01:10 AM
#370:


12 hours left.

Another reason I have Sultan nearly confirmed town - if sultan is scum then Chris and sultan coordinated using sultans concussion as part of the game.

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:02:52 AM
#371:


At least, they almost certainly did. I suppose its not impossible Chris couldve asked without knowing. But sultan is one of my stronger town reads between that, escape valve for Chris and (meta point but) after looking up his character, town drunk fits so well.

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:05:39 AM
#372:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
You know it's interesting we had to most activity today when Ctes was under some pressure. I feel so many people just let him off the hook..

Looking at Dumey and walls over Ctes? People want me beacuse of only my claim which is just bad, if jc wasn't confirmed town I'd look his way.. he hasn't even considered my play just oh well I can't scan you so i guess we just lynch you beacuse we can't get more info. This is just bad logic and kind of anti town

i definitely didnt let ctes off the hook. I may still move my vote back. And yes we had an influx of activity but he just claimed Jack and gave new information. I do wish other people were asking more questions and trying to get to the bottom of things though. Would love to see more Han today because he said he can play. Obviously he has work, but.


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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:08:15 AM
#373:


Jc isnt confirmed town. If ctes is scum then jc almost certainly is. And its very unlikely but not impossible scum would target and scan the same person to town clear their scanner

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:20:39 AM
#374:


Look, ulti is basically confirmed town. That leaves

Me
Ben
Sultan

Han
Lea
Dumey

jc
ctes
===========

Im in the unique position of knowing Im not town which no one else does, I realize. But I am town and I definitely think Sultan is town. Ben, Im on the fence, but even if hes scum, there has to be scum in one of the other groups. Unless you think me, sultan and Ben are all scum and thats correct (it isnt), at least one of Han/Lea/Dumey and ctes/jc contains scum.

In my opinion, ctes flipping is probably the most informative (mis)lynch either way because getting a definitive answer on the events of n1 would help us, and ctes also claims to have affected the events of n3.

If ctes flips town then jc is probably 99% town?

But at the same time i am torn because while scum would need some serious firepower, town having a bp doctor and jack with an EK is wow. Thats why I started thinking about the Han/Lea/Dumey group more closely last night. Of the three Lea and Han both had votes for Chris that make them look really good. Dumey was among those voting for death and arguably led the charge. IF Dumey is scum, mentioning considering a claim right off the jump makes the most sense if he is godfather. He would want to invite a scan in that case. Drum up peoples curiosity about his role, possibly have someone scan him right away. And there would be the added bonus to scum of wasting a scan and then cop might be soft defending Dumey while trying to maintain their own anonymity, which would help scum figure out who town cop was.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 8:29:57 AM
#375:


wallmasterz posted...
Jc isnt confirmed town. If ctes is scum then jc almost certainly is. And its very unlikely but not impossible scum would target and scan the same person to town clear their scanner

um wouldn't this also rely on knowing Ulti was shot and he didn't actually save JC?

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 8:34:46 AM
#376:


I'd hope this is an oversite here but could this be a scum slip my Wallz here? Like this seems to count on absolutely knowing that Ulti was shot and he is legit BP..

##vote:Wallz

hopefully there is a good explanation to this

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:38:13 AM
#377:


Im talking about n1. I am saying jc could be scum even if ctes is town. Its unlikely, but if ctes is town then scum targeted crescent, which means they suspected her as town power. Again, I was saying its highly highly unlikely scum scan and attempt to kill the same target, but its not impossible.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 8:45:24 AM
#378:


wallmasterz posted...
Im talking about n1. I am saying jc could be scum even if ctes is town. Its unlikely, but if ctes is town then scum targeted crescent, which means they suspected her as town power. Again, I was saying its highly highly unlikely scum scan and attempt to kill the same target, but its not impossible.


Well day 1 doesn't really matter without last night. So im still a bit concerned over this argument so doing the math here.

Night 1 scum would have had to shot at Creasent and scan her. Scum just scanning her and shooting elsewhere is very plausible. Shooting death people were saying is dumb of scum to do but really was it? Death is a really good player and if people don't think that they should think again. And plus doc would never guess a shot on Death.

Math again JC got redirected so that is odd if jc ctes are scum scum.

3rd for JC to be scum again Scum would have shot Ulti and knew he was BP and that being confirmed now to consider this as an option st this point like having the knowledge JC was not actually shot at.

Unless Ctes and JC are master classing this together as scum the chances of both being Scum is very low

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:45:42 AM
#379:


My point in saying that was hey, if ctes flips town it has jc as confirmed town as can be. If ctes flips scum, wed have a lot of reasons to think jc is.

But if ctes is town, a possibility Im tying to allow myself to be open to even though it means town has (imo bp) doc and a powerful Jack, my point is youd think scum has a lot of power to go up against that, and with ctes and jc town Im looking at claimed town power to see if scum is there and how it would fit into scums game plan. Thats what brought me to the idea of godfather and Dumey. An idea Im by no means sold on, but trying to think through.

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:47:50 AM
#380:


Math again JC got redirected so that is odd if jc ctes are scum scum.

If jc is scum the idea is he lied about being redirected.

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:50:57 AM
#381:


If jc is town, I dont know how redirect works but if scum was redirecting an action away from a target, it makes bct/Ben look super suspicious.

if jc is scum, it makes bct/Ben look a lot more town because jc saying hey I scanned bct and got redirected to ulti suggests the possibility scum was trying to protect bct/Ben.

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 8:53:29 AM
#382:


wallmasterz posted...
Math again JC got redirected so that is odd if jc ctes are scum scum.

If jc is scum the idea is he lied about being redirected.

Well that or did ao to make it look like he was always but that's a bit to bank on. Why lie though if scum like wouldn't you want to be like yeah I scanned sos and so they moved ot they didn't move. Honestly if scum as kc I would have probably been like yeah BCT is confirmed town now he didn't move and pocketed BCT the rest of the game but that's just me.

The lie would be weird but I guess there is a small possibility they tried to use that to confirm JC before last night I suppose

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TheSultanOfSlam
03/15/23 8:55:15 AM
#383:


wallmasterz posted...
If jc is town, I dont know how redirect works but if scum was redirecting an action away from a target, it makes bct/Ben look super suspicious.

if jc is scum, it makes bct/Ben look a lot more town because jc saying hey I scanned bct and got redirected to ulti suggests the possibility scum was trying to protect bct/Ben.

I can't remember if it was all actions going to BCT are now going to ulti or if he said all actions by JC are now going to Ulti either way.


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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:56:07 AM
#384:


Im gonna do my best to be active but work will be busy today so I wanted to get these thoughts out now.

if ctes is scum, jc is probably scum, Ben is probably town, we likely know 2/3rds of scum

if ctes is town, jc is basically definitely town, Ben deserves some scrutiny but I/we dont know if scum redirect targets jc to redirect regardless of jcs original target or picks a scummate and redirects any actions directed their way. But Ben is not definitely scum.

but if we know ctes and jc are town then assuming me or possibly bct die tonight, then 2/3rds scum at minimum is within Han, Lea, and Dumey.

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wallmasterz
03/15/23 8:59:52 AM
#385:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Well that or did ao to make it look like he was always but that's a bit to bank on. Why lie though if scum like wouldn't you want to be like yeah I scanned sos and so they moved ot they didn't move. Honestly if scum as kc I would have probably been like yeah BCT is confirmed town now he didn't move and pocketed BCT the rest of the game but that's just me.

The lie would be weird but I guess there is a small possibility they tried to use that to confirm JC before last night I suppose

If jc is scum then claiming to get redirected to ulti is the safest lie he can make. That doesnt mean hes scum, but it means nothing in his favor either.

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:11:40 AM
#386:


wallmasterz posted...
Im in the unique position of knowing Im not town

Uh oh lol

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:13:16 AM
#387:


wallmasterz posted...
In my opinion, ctes flipping is probably the most informative (mis)lynch either way because getting a definitive answer on the events of n1 would help us, and ctes also claims to have affected the events of n3.

Do you mean n2 and not n3 here?

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Obellisk
03/15/23 9:18:43 AM
#388:


Votals:
[2] Wallz: JC, Sultan
[1] Ctes: (Ulti), (Sultan), (Wallz), EDumey, (Han)
[1] EDumey, Ulti
[1] Ben: Lea
[0] Han: (Ulti)

Day ends in just under 11 hours.

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#389
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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:19:52 AM
#390:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
I can't remember if it was all actions going to BCT are now going to ulti or if he said all actions by JC are now going to Ulti either way.

N2 I used bus drive on Ulti and BCT. JC would not have been affected if he scanned anywhere but the two.

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:22:12 AM
#391:


wallmasterz posted...
if ctes is town, jc is basically definitely town, Ben deserves some scrutiny but I/we dont know if scum redirect targets jc to redirect regardless of jcs original target or picks a scummate and redirects any actions directed their way. But Ben is not definitely scum.

I don't get this paragraph sorry. If you know I am town, you know that scum was not the cause of the redirection?

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:25:31 AM
#392:


The best town cases for Wall imo:
- Not having moved last night.
- Linking me and JC this hard with the intent of lynching me first. If he's scum doing this, he's not trying to set up a second mislynch, which would otherwise explain why he has linked our alignments more than I find reasonable to do.

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:30:16 AM
#393:


I also think he's made a fair share of fallacies, that tend to be more town aligned.

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:41:56 AM
#394:


I don't like that he at times seems to have chosen a conclusion and try to fit that narrative rather than the other way around, though he has shown more doubt later each time than his initial confidence would suggest.

I don't like that he defended JC using a reason in a reread that he would not yet have reached.

I think this paragraph is pretty bad.

wallmasterz posted...
Look, isquen might be scum. Its a reasonable conclusion atm. But what the hell will it really tell us if he is? And what Im slowly allowing myself to consider, wtf if hes somehow town? Isquen has already decided to roll over and play dead lol. We can revisit.

Other than the first line being terrible regardless of alignment it reads as if kinda knowing Isquen is town to me.

I think Wall and I have spent a fair amount of time discussing back and fourth with no one really seeming to care. That reads a bit like scum being fine it.

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ctesjbuvf
03/15/23 9:45:40 AM
#395:


So yeah, I'm a bit stuck on that one.

I kinda want to vote Han the most, though I'd like for Lea (or really anyone) to judge in on it. I'm also a bit frustrated that he used some dirty stuff to get me to back off yesterday because I think taking that in is beyond the scope of how I want to play mafia.

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#396
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#397
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PunishedBen
03/15/23 10:00:05 AM
#398:


I want to vote Han, and frankly I'm not sure if we can trust Lea's opinion on this one either!

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PunishedBen
03/15/23 10:02:53 AM
#399:


Still reading day 1. Just so far underwhelmed by Han and his only major read so far at start of topic 3 is that Sheep is town? But apparently that changed.

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