Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 10: Try the Gagh

(+) Yeah! (+)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I havent gotten to Sheep's day 2 thoughts, naturally. So if he changed his mind later, so if he changed his mind later, well, he should have stuck to his day 1 reads! :)

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Wallz looks exactly like I did in Nickelodeon Mafia. At least that's my impression. Newbie scum being coached and getting very defensive of being scanned, plus having someone trying to protect him (Ulti). The true reason I got defensive of being scanned was because I was scum that game. I feel he's doing the same thing, only he has a buddy covering for him.

yikes

this is from topic 4

i didnt even bold that, he bolded it himself

i went back to get a BCT post that was him going but look everyone thinks Im town to show that he was at least consistent from D1 to D2 in that respect but man that is not a good look

UltimaterializerX posted...

Let me put this clearly.

If Andy played like that as scum he should be policy lynched day 1 every game.

Because, what, he's reactionary and only goes after people who look his way first?

Chaeix posted...

Hi friends, given that only Sultan has commented, I would like to ask directly - what are your thoughts on the fact that at the end of D1, Wallz tried to pull Sultans vote off of Chris and onto Ulti?

Wallz you are of course encouraged to clarify this whole thought process

It looks bad for sure, I wont deny that. Im amazed this wasnt a talking point sooner but I never thought about it until today so maybe most people didnt either.

I was really puzzled by Sultan taking his vote off Ulti near the end of d1 and when sultan was asked why he moved his vote, he said well no one else is voting ulti. So I wanted to see what sultan would do if someone else voted for ulti.

There was talk that if Han and Chris are both scum, why did Chris not push Death as a counter lynch? Chris wasn't there at the end of day. I certiantly think he TRIED to push a counter lynch, on Sultan, and had to go back to Han when Sultan gained traction. The other scenario is that lynch was TOWN,TOWN, SCUM, and the lynch on scum happened and the scum was chris. That is harder to believe that TOWN, SCUM, SCUM.

*didnt gain traction

And Ulti, I don't think you hate me, I just hate that you say stuff like "Han is SOOOO good, if he was Town, he'd have lynched the whole scumteam D1, therefore he's actually Scum who played really poorly despite me saying he's SOOOO good"

Like that gets really annoying, and then when I try to engage with you, you always brush it off. It was the big problem last game too.

Right now it makes no sense for you to be Scum but you've been unavailable for most of the day and when you do pop in, you've made some bad claims and then ignored that you did. It's irksome.

That is all.

PunishedBen posted...

Oh dont forget that Wallz was scanned as not moving. That is worth something in my book

That's the one thing that's getting me.. though scum having a ninja would be interesting with this set up but man 2 roles to fuck with JC just seems mean..

Or he could have not moved or did something passive?

PunishedBen posted...

There was talk that if Han and Chris are both scum, why did Chris not push Death as a counter lynch? Chris wasn't there at the end of day. I certiantly think he TRIED to push a counter lynch, on Sultan, and had to go back to Han when Sultan gained traction. The other scenario is that lynch was TOWN,TOWN, SCUM, and the lynch on scum happened and the scum was chris. That is harder to believe that TOWN, SCUM, SCUM.

It's actually really easy to believe if BCT and a newbie are his Scummates.

Not to accuse Wall of being bad, just new.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I read BCT as Town and I read Ben as Scum. Otherwise, sure, Wall.

What if I told you we're the same alignment

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

That's the one thing that's getting me.. though scum having a ninja would be interesting with this set up but man 2 roles to fuck with JC just seems mean..

Or he could have not moved or did something passive?

I mean, it would explain why Town is seemingly loaded on power if one of Town's roles is almost exclusively anti-Town.

wallmasterz posted...

It looks bad for sure, I wont deny that. Im amazed this wasnt a talking point sooner but I never thought about it until today so maybe most people didnt either.

I was really puzzled by Sultan taking his vote off Ulti near the end of d1 and when sultan was asked why he moved his vote, he said well no one else is voting ulti. So I wanted to see what sultan would do if someone else voted for ulti.

to what end though?

like what does seeing what sultan do help you understand or accomplish? Were you trying to get Ulti lynched? Were you curious about sultan? Walk me through this

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Did you read the entire paragraph I posted?

Stream of consciousness and I also said why it doesn't make sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ulti wasn't an uncountered BP Doc N1. He didn't claim Doctor until D2, and it read to at least me that he was trying to draw a shot when Crescent appeared to be Doctor due to not wanting to claim when she was already outed as power.

Ulti was almost definitely saying stuff like jeez guys I hope nobody SHOOTS me before d1 ended

Votals:
[2] Wallz: JC, Sultan
[2] Han: (Ulti) Ulti, Ben
[1] Ctes: (Ulti), (Sultan), (Wallz), EDumey, (Han)
[1] Ben: Lea
[0] EDumey, (Ulti)

Day Ends in 3 Hours 40 Minutes.

Chaeix posted...

to what end though?

like what does seeing what sultan do help you understand or accomplish? Were you trying to get Ulti lynched? Were you curious about sultan? Walk me through this

I think he was arguing Me v Ulti was scum theater at the time

Yo. @Anyone who is willing to listen. I do not believe for a second that town Han legitimately thinks my slot is scum here. Not after all the statements he made about BCT day 1. So use that as another point against him.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Han I listened to the team the past two days. Check the flips.

Which is why I find it annoying for you to accuse me of leading both lynches when I wasn't the reason they got lynched. Neither lynch had opposition. You're complicit in them too. You could have defended them.

Like, I get that PoE is limited, but if you're going to accuse me, at least use the game and don't make things up.

PoE is limited. Set-up seems odd. Do you agree with these two statements?

wallmasterz posted...

Ulti was almost definitely saying stuff like jeez guys I hope nobody SHOOTS me before d1 ended

That is not a Doctor claim.

PunishedBen posted...

Yo. @Anyone who is willing to listen. I do not believe for a second that town Han legitimately thinks my slot is scum here. Not after all the statements he made about BCT day 1. So use that as another point against him.

Ben, you might be surprised to hear this:

There was a Day 2.

There was a Day 3.

There has been a Day 4.

Quit hiding behind your replacing in.

Lea, I'm sorry but your boyfriend is scum. I do think a possible world exists where you are town and he is scum, but NOT the other way around

I dont need a day 2 3 or 4 to be on the ball, is what we will learn at the end of the game. Day 1's best day <3

(i will get caught up in the night phase but i think I'm gonna have to commit to only day 4 today)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Im legit sorry Lea. Theres no question Ive intentionally dodged and thats true now as town and I cant imagine me purposefully ignoring questions as scum either. Going forward in future games Im going to try to be better about it

Since people are talking about their previous impressions of BCT, let me again try and state my case on him that isn't just "BCT plays in an annoying way and OMGUS's everyone."

We're talking about PATTERNS of BEHAVIOR here, because that's how we catch scum losers.

Players with previous BCT experience tell me BCT is active, and lurking is a scum tell of his.
BCT spends the whole game only popping in to respond to mentions of his name, with very little general thoughts on the other parts of the game here or there.
Ulti hard scummons BCT near deadline.

BCT makes an early D1 post saying he shouldn't be scanned (may need to fact check me on this, I don't want to be misremembering Wallz post, but I'm pretty sure BCT spoke about it too.)
BCT makes a late D1 post saying he shouldn't be scanned.
BCT self reports that the last game he played where he was afraid of being scanned, it was because he was scum.

D1 I ask a question to MZero and BCT in the middle of content-dead night on their thoughts on some various events of D1.
BCT refuses to give any read on Chris (CONFIRMED SCUM).
D3 I notice BCT has conveniently left Wallz out of his scum list without any mention of Wallz, despite voting for Wallz twice in D1.
I confront BCT about this, and he stubbornly refuses to give any kind of read on Wallz.

D4 Wallz has BCT/Ben near the top of his town list without much explanation, but when pressured about it, moves Ben back into his PoE.

I want to be clear here that when people are giving very general "I hard read BCT as town" or other similar takes with zero substantiation to them other than "I think I can divine how genuine BCT's craziness is based on my personal experience of them", that I take that with an extreme grain of salt, and think that I have genuine reasons for suspecting that player slot.

I am trying to be fair to Ben coming in and having to follow up on BCT's performance, but I'm not in love with Ben's strategy here today of trying to push Han and will still put Ben as a very high priority on my PoE.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

That is not a Doctor claim.

Fair, no I dont remember ulti saying he was bp doctor n1. But I didnt follow your post where you said scum would shoot ulti n1 and n3 even though he survived n1, and use an unblockable on someone else n2. Also dont see where that has to be what happened if jc is scum because insisting scum would never shoot death feels like scum trying to frame a possibility as a fact.

Ben, you asked me a question about who to consider above myself on your list. I responded, and you moved on without acknowledging it.

+1 Acknowledgement or Reply, pls.

EDumey posted...

Ben, you asked me a question about who to consider above myself on your list. I responded, and you moved on without acknowledging it.

+1 Acknowledgement or Reply, pls.

I can look at that next. Very much at work!

wallmasterz posted...

Fair, no I dont remember ulti saying he was bp doctor n1. But I didnt follow your post where you said scum would shoot ulti n1 and n3 even though he survived n1, and use an unblockable on someone else n2. Also dont see where that has to be what happened if jc is scum because insisting scum would never shoot death feels like scum trying to frame a possibility as a fact.

Sorry, it was with the frame that Ctes is Town because Scum wouldn't shoot Death.
The postulate is that Scum either shot Ulti or Crescent N1 - but for JC to be Scum, I agree he wouldn't target the night kill target, hence them shooting Ulti N1. It doesn't make sense with them shooting him N3, though.

For JC to be Scum... The other thought is that JC targeted Crescent N1 to shoot her, and she scanned him, and he's Godfather. Therefore Scum knows she did it, and he can claim something specific. Ctes tells the truth about redirecting him N2, and they try shooting Ulti N3.

Unlikely, though. Ctes being Scum I do think has a higher likelihood.

I think ctes or walls is where I'm at today.

Them being scum scum though I doubt it.
Unless they have been busing each other all day.

EDumey posted...

From my PoE I have Ctes and Sultan. I think Sultan shouldn't be hard eliminated from PoE because I don't think Chris actually wanted him lynched D1, just setting up breadcrumbs for later if he thought Sultan would inevitably be lynched. Ctes is the power claim that fits the least, so unless you think the entire scum team is hiding in the Vanillas, it seems like Ctes is the most suspect of those above.

Personally I would put Sultan as further in the town range than you or Wallz, but I also just don't agree with removing him entirely from PoE.

Oh no I hard cleared Sultan and can no longer take suspicion on him seriously. Did you see the posts Sultan made where he tried to catch Chris slipping/lying about playing Yakuza? That is not a move scum Sultan makes on scum buddy Chris. I am not even judging Sultan based on how Chris treated him, but how Sultan treated Chris. I had a string of posts last night that i think clears him.

I think Ctes as scum takes too many illogical leaps. More illogical leaps than seeing JC or Ulti as scum. 1. The shot on Death. Scum would have had to sacrifice that mislynch to set up the gambit. AFTER having a gambit, when Ctes was under no pressure to do this, they tell Ctes to go ahead and claim the bus drive? And then the promise of a roleblock tomorrow night? That is 3 giant potential scum moves tied to Ctes. Scum only needs to make one of those promises at most.

And i think that last post explained to myself even better why I believe Ctes so hard. That is why i had such a visceral reaction to his second claim.

Who did not see the logic that I saw, and instead voted Ctes right away? It was Han. I expect town Han to agree with me here. Not just now but immediately.

PunishedBen posted...

Did you see the posts Sultan made where he tried to catch Chris slipping/lying about playing Yakuza?

This is maybe the most stupid reason I have ever read to try and "hard clear" someone.

PunishedBen posted...

And i think that last post explained to myself even better why I believe Ctes so hard. That is why i had such a visceral reaction to his second claim.

Who did not see the logic that I saw, and instead voted Ctes right away? It was Han. I expect town Han to agree with me here. Not just now but immediately.

If you expect me to think something through that extended in an "immediate" amount of time, then you're very clearly lying.

I mean, I can't consider multiple scenarios and implications and come up with like 5 sentences explaining a conclusion within the span of 1 second. Not sure why you think I can.

Han it seems like your PoE is 2/3 me and Ben. But you seem to agree Ulti and Sultan are town. You have defended ctes and jc. You are at least half wrong about me and Ben (but im starting to think only half wrong and not fully >_>) but regardless you realize 1 if not more scum would come from Dumey and Lea if ctes and jc are town?

Points win walls favor
1. Strong day 1 and day 2
2 . Scanned to not have moved.

Points in ctes favor
1. Death being the only kill day 1(could also be a point against him. Scum could have just shot death)
2. The bus driver going the way it did.

I haven't agreed with everything Ben has been saying, but Han calling him scum after putting stating BCT can't fake this as scum is a very strong point.

EDumey posted...

This is maybe the most stupid reason I have ever read to try and "hard clear" someone.

Ah, You've never played with town me before

If anyone else disagrees in the Sultan clears, please speak up now before its too late so I can tell you you're wrong.

wallmasterz posted...

Han it seems like your PoE is 2/3 me and Ben. But you seem to agree Ulti and Sultan are town. You have defended ctes and jc. You are at least half wrong about me and Ben (but im starting to think only half wrong and not fully >_>) but regardless you realize 1 if not more scum would come from Dumey and Lea if ctes and jc are town?

There's a reason I've been turning over the claims a lot today.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I haven't agreed with everything Ben has been saying, but Han calling him scum after putting stating BCT can't fake this as scum is a very strong point.

I had huge deja vu quoting this.

It's not a very strong point, and here's why:

1. I admit I can be wrong.
2. Ben has been very Scummy.

PunishedBen posted...

The shot on Death. Scum would have had to sacrifice that mislynch to set up the gambit.

Chris just died N1. It's not crazy to think they make some kind of gambit to set one scum as someone outside of consideration.

PunishedBen posted...

AFTER having a gambit, when Ctes was under no pressure to do this, they tell Ctes to go ahead and claim the bus drive?

This is the only one I don't understand. Maybe we were starting to lead the conversation about Redirector somewhere he didn't like? Maybe after failing to kill JC, they needed to set up and excuse for why Ctes might be caught moving if JC decided to test Ctes now that his vig shot was up? It would make sense for scum to use Ctes for kills to avoid their Vanillas getting scanned when they can't guarantee who JC scans.

PunishedBen posted...

And then the promise of a roleblock tomorrow night? That is 3 giant potential scum moves tied to Ctes. Scum only needs to make one of those promises at most.

Scum Jacks have roleblocks. If he has to claim a third Jack power, might as well be something he can "confirm" if needed. Better than claiming to have something that he can't.

The greatest argument for Town Ctes, is why would he give up his scum gambit of fake claiming Vig if he didn't need to. But maybe he did feel pressured to, especially if they know now that Ulti is saving you and they have no other way to stop you from eventually scanning him.

I don't know why I said you when I meant JC. JC is the one who scans, damnit.

Dumey, if Ctes is Scum, I don't believe he has a roleblock.

Ctes, do me a favor - where was the post you breadcrumbed in?

I guess i didnt make the letters fancy or capitalized enough. I see Sultan as more confirmed than Ctes or Ulti. That's how sure i am. Sultan had the purest reasons of the day for going after Chris. He got all excited on what he thought was a slip and equated Chris to catching a shark. I'd say Ulti had good reactions as well and it felt genuine why he wanted to vote Chris at EoD.

If Scum bussed Chris, it means Scum is playing suboptimally.

If we're willing to accept that Scum is playing suboptimally, it means them shooting Death has to be in consideration. It could mean they'd no-kill as well but that one's realllllyyy dicey.