Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 10: Try the Gagh

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Crew:
1- ctes
2- EDumey
3- Han
4- JC
5- Lea
6- PunishedBen (BCT)
7- Sultan
8- UltimaterializerX
9- wallmasterz

Tribbles:
LD1 - SirChris - Harry Mudd, Scum Hammerer/Double Voter
KN1 - Death - Ensign Harry Kim, Town Vanilla
LD2 - Sheep - Kasidy Yates, Town Vanilla
KN2 - Crescent - Elim Garak, Town Miller Guilty Cop
LD3 - Isquen - Sylvia Tilly, Town Vanilla

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day ends Wednesday March 15th at 8pm EST.

wallmasterz posted...

I think how bad they were is still debatable, but assuming they were wrong, I dont see what ultis flavor has to do with anything.

Broke: Han entered the day saying to the game "wow I'm so mad Scum didn't get a shot off"
Woke: Wall entered the day congratulating Ulti in jubilation to disguise his own angst at Scum not getting a shot off
Bad: Han asked a question about flavor - this can only mean Scum

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That's what I was looking for

EDumey posted...

Does no one else notice Wallz trucking along like I don't exist? I'm used to this neglect from Ulti, but not our star new player. T_T

Yeah but it's also kind of funny

Ctes, that's unclear on my end:

"Aside from you being Scum together" should have been followed by a colon, indicating that the listing after was me talking about that scenario.

Yeah alright, I read it as "other than this scenario"

Obellisk posted...

As Miller Guilty Cop you can target one player every night and find out if they are Innocent or Guilty. If you were to be scanned you too would appear as Guilty. If you are successful in targeting a member of the scum team they will be informed the next day phase of who you are.

Does scanning a Godfather count as successfully targeting a member of the Scum team?

Also Dumey I noticed it too, I had a similar interaction with Wall twice and no one cared, to bad for you.

Also I'm not entirely sure it means anything, but I do not agree with Wall's priorities that much.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Also Dumey I noticed it too, I had a similar interaction with Wall twice and no one cared, to bad for you.

Also I'm not entirely sure it means anything, but I do not agree with Wall's priorities that much.

Yeah, it's too bad I asked about flavor, which made me push down suspicions that Ulti could be lying given how perfectly his flavor fit his role.

What a strange decision from me, somebody who is trying to solve the game and asked a question and actually changed his thoughts based on the answer.

It's not that I don't see your point Han, but why are you so defensive.

Dumey Id like to offer a sincere apology - it wasnt you, it was jc. 9.123.

Chaeix posted...

Wallz.

I am doing a long hard think about this because I agree with a lot of ctes' criticisms of wallz. He's spent the last 2 days undermining power claims instead of assessing the vanilla situation, which quite frankly I think is more pressing. He also hasn't done a good job of explaining why scum would kill a claimed vanilla and then claim the kill as a vig without knowing whether town had extra killing powers. I think ctes is ballsy but not that ballsy.

ctesjbuvf posted...

It's not that I don't see your point Han, but why are you so defensive.

You mean, why am I so combative?

Ctes, you know why.

For JC to be Scum without Ctes, then yes, I think it relies on JC being Godfather scanned by Crescent.
Ctes can be Scum without JC - he already had breadcrumbed that he was going to claim Jack, so Ben's weird defense from earlier doesn't matter.
Ulti being Scum would require no-killing at least once, which is not smart at all in a game where Scum's down from D1 lynch.

For all three of you to be Town, along with Crescent, it requires Scum to have power.
The unblockable could have been, say, a Jack of All Kills - Ninja, Unblockable, maybe Janitor?
They would also have no apparent CC role... which means either they have none and are just weak, or have one we haven't considered.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yeah, it's too bad I asked about flavor, which made me push down suspicions that Ulti could be lying given how perfectly his flavor fit his role.

Well thats kind of my point. I dont understand being suspicious of Ulti at all after n3 even without knowing his flavor.

wallmasterz posted...

Well thats kind of my point. I dont understand being suspicious of Ulti at all after n3 even without knowing his flavor.

Why not?

Thank you Wallz. That at least clarifies for me that it came from the game and not outside of it. I will accept the misattribution.

With this context now, I would still like you to answer my original question of what is your proposed scum team if you had to pick a three man team? I can understand being delayed because of work stuff, I ask people to be patient with me during work hours all the time, but when you can, thank you.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Ulti being Scum would require no-killing at least once, which is not smart at all in a game where Scum's down from D1 lynch.

Dont forget it requires there being no doctor in this game

wallmasterz posted...

Dont forget it requires there being no doctor in this game

Doctor is not mandatory. BD/RB is still protection, and that's even been claimed!
Technically a gun could be seen a protection too...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Action successful.

And Han/Dumey jumped on ctes way too quickly without thinking about it. I feel good about my Dumey vote because HEAT CHECK.

Ulti, there's a significant reason why Dumey doesn't make sense as Scum. Can you identify it?

EDumey posted...

Thank you Wallz. That at least clarifies for me that it came from the game and not outside of it. I will accept the misattribution.

With this context now, I would still like you to answer my original question of what is your proposed scum team if you had to pick a three man team? I can understand being delayed because of work stuff, I ask people to be patient with me during work hours all the time, but when you can, thank you.

Tough question I honestly dont have a confident answer to. Logistically, based on how the game is set up, I think ctes and jc being scum makes the most sense. Otherwise the perceived imbalance of power is really puzzling. Maybe they are scum and just halfway talked me out of it, but yesterday (irl) I found myself deeply considering ctes is telling the truth, which makes me think scum is three of the following: Han/Lea/Dumey/Ben. I hope youll forgive me not being able to present 3 with a neat little bow but this post represents as far as Ive come with an answer to your question.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Action successful.

And Han/Dumey jumped on ctes way too quickly without thinking about it. I feel good about my Dumey vote because HEAT CHECK.

I still think there's a good chance Ctes is scum btw. That's why I haven't bothered moving my vote yet.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

A. Han and I basically same time voted.
B. I will admit I did not check votals to see how many votes were already on Ctes, but I thought it was only one at the time.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

he already had breadcrumbed that he was going to claim Jack

Yeah like an hour before or something.

Han, I feel like you tend to vote pressure a lot more than you have the most days, considering specials a lot more because of how informative ends of days are. It's not something I always agree on but it has its merits. Why have you not done much of that the last few days?

Does town Han that already explained that he can't read Death very well jump from 7.5 to 9 on thinking Death is scum?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah like an hour before or something.

Han, I feel like you tend to vote pressure a lot more than you have the most days, considering specials a lot more because of how informative ends of days are. It's not something I always agree on but it has its merits. Why have you not done much of that the last few days?

I disagree with your assessment.

If I vote someone, I don't mind doing it for a weaker reason if I think I sniffed something. I also don't mind being wrong because it creates pressure. Also, I would only consider specials truthfully if it's somebody I want lynched. Otherwise, I'm not really into them. I tend to prefer not lynching people who can't claim.

wallmasterz posted...

Tough question I honestly dont have a confident answer to. Logistically, based on how the game is set up, I think ctes and jc being scum makes the most sense. Otherwise the perceived imbalance of power is really puzzling. Maybe they are scum and just halfway talked me out of it, but yesterday (irl) I found myself deeply considering ctes is telling the truth, which makes me think scum is three of the following: Han/Lea/Dumey/Ben. I hope youll forgive me not being able to present 3 with a neat little bow but this post represents as far as Ive come with an answer to your question.

Maaan, you keep tripping red flags for me, and it's so hard for me to honestly evaluate. I hope you can appreciate that I'm actually not just tunneling you on every inconsistency and minor thing I can find, because I think Town makes mistakes and changes reads all the time as more info is brought to light. But completely flipping from Ctes/JC might be telling the truth, and then including Ben (who was number 2 town right below yourself before) in your potential scum team just seems so inconsistent that my brain demands a reason for it.

The charitable part of me wants to say you're just a new player and not confident in your reads, and that's totally understandable. The scum hunter in me wants to say "I called out Wallz for defending Ben when both of them are on my PoE list, and now suddenly Wallz is putting Ben back in the line of fire."

ctesjbuvf posted...

Does town Han that already explained that he can't read Death very well jump from 7.5 to 9 on thinking Death is scum?

I feel like you're not quoting some important context of what Han was responding to when he made that half-joke.

EDumey posted...

I feel like you're not quoting some important context of what Han was responding to when he made that half-joke.

I didn't go even go back and check, I'm thinking out loud. For the same reason I didn't take a stance.

I just considered how Han attacked Sheep for saying Death was an easy read (which impressive was apparently correct) and later stayed on Death until very late.

I mean, it'd have been Scummier for me to say Death was difficult to read and read him correctly, imo

Would that really make a difference.

It's weird boasting that lack if confidence and then being on him for so long imo.

SirChris posted...

Look how about this. King me. Kill han. If han is town just kill me tomorrow

Ez pz

This is the single most interesting post yet for discussion. Chris has not made a statement this bold about anyone in the game yet at this point. Now Chris was scum so we know this confidence is fake, however, does Chris as scum open himself up to looking this bad in a world where he gets his wish and Han flips town?

"If Han is town kill me tomorrow". I feel he is only making this statement because Han is scum so its safe to throw out.

4.288 for reference.

"Death posted...

To be honest I dont know if I even see a better player to lynch right now than Han.

Said Death never.

Make it a 9.5, Chris."

I definitely read this as a joke to Chris about Death going, "I dunno, maybe Han?"

It's also weird having a flavor scan that most likely exonerates somebody and yet gunning for them because I'm stubborn about a read.

I thought Death was Scum. Just because I don't find him easy to read doesn't mean I can't develop a read. This is kind of a nothing line from you, Ctes.

EDumey posted...

Maaan, you keep tripping red flags for me, and it's so hard for me to honestly evaluate. I hope you can appreciate that I'm actually not just tunneling you on every inconsistency and minor thing I can find, because I think Town makes mistakes and changes reads all the time as more info is brought to light. But completely flipping from Ctes/JC might be telling the truth, and then including Ben (who was number 2 town right below yourself before) in your potential scum team just seems so inconsistent that my brain demands a reason for it.

The charitable part of me wants to say you're just a new player and not confident in your reads, and that's totally understandable. The scum hunter in me wants to say "I called out Wallz for defending Ben when both of them are on my PoE list, and now suddenly Wallz is putting Ben back in the line of fire."

Im confident in approximately none of my reads. Lol. At this point the foundation Im working from is ulti is town doc and if he got lucky af claiming doc as scum then gg scum. Sultan I also think is town. BCT/Ben I think I bought a little too much into the narrative this is just BCT and considering his literal last second vote on Chris I changed my mind a bit. I also think BCTs behavior could be seen as hamming it up a little bit if he was coached by Chris to imitate his overly defensive self as much as possible. So yes I changed my mind. Its a good thing to do, ask your boy Han. If this be a red flag to Dumey and the crew, so be it.

Ben making a conclusion and shoving posts in to fit it...

PunishedBen posted...

does Chris as scum open himself up to looking this bad in a world where he gets his wish and Han flips town?

Given he doesn't try hard to be not be lynched, this argument doesn't really hold.

If you want to talk Occulam's - Chris identified me as a threat to his team and tried to throw his weight around to get me lynched when I am a common N1 save target. He failed because he didn't have a real argument.

Like, I hate to say this once again, but if Chris is Scum bussing Scum, he's going to be able to put together a much better argument to lynching a Scummate. Which is also points in Sultan's favor.

ninja'd by Lea

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I don't think so. Yes i am looking out for reasons why Han could be scum in these interactions. But i was looking for reasons why Sultan is scum and found him to be town.

Using a bit of Han's posts earlier, what it takes for JC to be scum, not knowing that I'm truthful.

N1 Scum shoots Death, JC scans Crescent (OR scum shoots the same they're scanning, which was always ridiculous)
N2 Scum shoots Crescent using an unblockable, JC pretends to be redirected.
N3 Scum shoots Ulti.
Ctes must be scum
Ulti must be bulletproof (and must also be doctor if you believed the first paranthesis)
Town power is reduced to three roles including neighborizer and a drunk in 10 or 11.

I think anyone humoring all of the above is not trying to use the method of PoE to progress but just keeping their options available. The last line even relies on Dumey and Sultan being town but it's never brought up. Even not knowing if I'm speaking the truth the above I'd ridiculous to consider. Where is that razor some of you love to bring up

PunishedBen posted...

I don't think so. Yes i am looking out for reasons why Han could be scum in these interactions. But i was looking for reasons why Sultan is scum and found him to be town.

Looking at your reread, one would assume there were only 3 players D1.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Using a bit of Han's posts earlier, what it takes for JC to be scum, not knowing that I'm truthful.

N1 Scum shoots Death, JC scans Crescent (OR scum shoots the same they're scanning, which was always ridiculous)
N2 Scum shoots Crescent using an unblockable, JC pretends to be redirected.
N3 Scum shoots Ulti.
Ctes must be scum
Ulti must be bulletproof (and must also be doctor if you believed the first paranthesis)
Town power is reduced to three roles including neighborizer and a drunk in 10 or 11.

I think anyone humoring all of the above is not trying to use the method of PoE to progress but just keeping their options available. The last line even relies on Dumey and Sultan being town but it's never brought up. Even not knowing if I'm speaking the truth the above I'd ridiculous to consider. Where is that razor some of you love to bring up

So Occulam's Razor says you're all Town, and Scum is underpowered, and that's it?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Ben making a conclusion and shoving posts in to fit it...

Given he doesn't try hard to be not be lynched, this argument doesn't really hold.

If you want to talk Occulam's - Chris identified me as a threat to his team and tried to throw his weight around to get me lynched when I am a common N1 save target. He failed because he didn't have a real argument.

Like, I hate to say this once again, but if Chris is Scum bussing Scum, he's going to be able to put together a much better argument to lynching a Scummate. Which is also points in Sultan's favor.

That does not match my read on the situation so far. I don't think you were a threat to his game considering the engagement is being forced by him and his made up reason for voting you is that your presence isn't strong enough. So it looks more like goading you into action than it does seeing you as a threat.

It's Han and Lea isn't it.

Of course the scum in star trek were the star wars characters.

PunishedBen posted...

That does not match my read on the situation so far. I don't think you were a threat to his game considering the engagement is being forced by him and his made up reason for voting you is that your presence isn't strong enough. So it looks more like goading you into action than it does seeing you as a threat.

Either way, it reads like I'm Town, so w/e

HanOfTheNekos posted...

So Occulam's Razor says you're all Town, and Scum is underpowered, and that's it?

Occulam's definitely says JC is town. Should to anyone. Even more so than Ulti (I suppose unless one is on a team that has shot at him?).

Underpowered scum has always been an idea you proposed that might just as well be wrong. 4 scum and Chris' power considered? That's super strong.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Occulam's definitely says JC is town. Should to anyone. Even more so than Ulti (I suppose unless one is on a team that has shot at him?).

Underpowered scum has always been an idea you proposed that might just as well be wrong. 4 scum and Chris' power considered? That's super strong.

It's strong but Chris dying as he did day 1 does not support it.