Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Batman, Mega Man, Leon, Kiryu, Rika vs. BJ, Cyberdemon, Zagreus

(+) Yeah! (+)

Batman, Mega Man, Leon Kennedy, Kazuma Kiryu and RikaFurude have challenged BJ Blazkowicz, The Cyberdemon and Zagreus to a fight! Location of the fight: Tower of Babel - The scenario of Doomguy and the Cyberdemon's first and most famous clash. The flayed corpses of demons and unsettling demonic pillars surround a towering structure, rising high into the heavens. There are no resources lying around, but a few dozen Lost Souls linger around the area, hostile to all invaders. Attackers will start at the spawn point, while defenders will start at the Cyberdemon's starting point. Which side will win?

Guidelines
-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Leon Kennedy is as he appears in the Resident Evil series, including canonical supplementary media. He comes into battle with his two Wing Shooter pistols, his knife, a Lightning Hawk magnum, a handful of grenades and the Chicago Typewriter, all fully upgraded.

Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in the Yakuza series, at the peak of his fighting prowess. He comes into battle equipped with three bottles of Staminan Royale, the Ama-no-Murakumo blade, Extremely Sturdy Brass Knuckles, a 9mm handgun with unlimited ammo, the Transcendent Body Armor and a motorcycle. He may use any of his fighting styles, Heat Actions and techniques as he sees fit, and starts the battle with full Heat, which will not drain unless used.

Batman is as he appears in the Arkham game series, at the peak of his abilities. He has full access to all of his gadgets and upgrades and may call upon the fully upgraded Batmobile for assistance, but none of his other assets are available. Feats from comics, even those connected to the Arkham series, are not valid. He is aware he is incapable of permanently killing anyone in this fight.

Mega Man is as he appears across the Mega Man series. He has access to his Mega Buster, his Magnet Beam, his dog Rush (and various Rush modes), the Double Gear system and all his weapons from the mainline Mega Man series, though Gravity Hold and Centaur Flash will share an energy pool and Flash Stopper will only have its lore effects and not stop time in any way. He also has access to his moveset from the Marvel vs Capcom series, hyper combos included, as well as a variety of weapons based on his defeated foes, allowing him to use Raiden's Murasama Blade and King K. Rool's Crownarang

Rika Furude is as she appears throughout Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. She has no equipment other than her school uniform and a mop, and is pretty much exactly as terrible at fighting as you would expect a ten year old girl to be. When Rika dies in a match, she will go back in time, and though she will retain her memories, no other mercenaries will under any circumstances. However, this power is limited: Rika will first restart the match entirely, then thirty seconds into the second loop, then a minute after that into the third (in other words, 90 seconds into the match), and so on. If the time Rika would rewind to is after her death, then she will be unable to go back and the match will proceed as normal. The rest of Rika's team will not be aware of any of this.

~VS~

V is as he appears in Cyberpunk 2077, as a Streetkid Legend who successfully completed the solo assault on Arasaka Tower. He will be able to see and hear Johnny Silverhand during battle but otherwise will be in top condition. He has maxed out Cool, Intelligence and Reflexes, and has all of their associated perks. He is equipped with the Dying Night, Johnny Silverhand's Malorian Arms revolver, a Netwatch Netdriver Mk.5 cyberdeck with all quickhacks, Optical Camo, Smartlink, Monowire, Reinforced Tendons, Subdermal Armor, all Cool, Reflex and Intelligence focused implants, including Mantis Blades and Warp Dancer, plus Satori and Jinchi-Maru katanas, Divided We Stand and Moron Labe rifles, Fenrir, Yinglong and Shingen Mark V SMGs, Ashura Sniper Rifle and Skippy pistol (in Stone Cold Killer mode), all at the highest possible quality level. He will serve as a third party in the fight, with no loyalty to either team, though he will not necessarily attack anyone on sight, instead acting as his personality would suggest him to act. He is not a valid choice of victor, and starts at an equidistant distance from both teams or as close to it as possible while beginning at a safe position.

~VS~

The Cyberdemon is as seen in Doom 2016, with full access to all of its attacks, as well as those of Tyrant demons from Doom Eternal.

Zagreus is as he appears in Hades, having completed a successful Extreme Measures 4 run. He has access to all of the purple upgrades of the Mirror of Night, save for Fated Authority, and comes into battle with the Spear, Rail and Bow weapons, in their Guan Yu, Eris and Chiron forms, respectively, with no Hammers applied. He has access to the boons of Zeus, Demeter, Zeus, Aphrodite and Aphrodite for his Attack, Special, Cast, Dash and Call abilities, plus all of the passive boons of Zeus to supplement his power sans Duo boons, all at their highest possible rarity, which will all apply as favourably as possible even if they would normally contradict each other. In addition, he may use Hades' call and Greater Call in place of his normal call as he sees fit. He has received V's Relic, and will start the battle at 50% of his max HP and already dying, his health gradually depleting throughout the battle as seen in the solo assault of Arasaka Tower. Though he may be healed, he may not go above 50% of his maximum health at any point.

B.J. Blazkowicz is as he appears in Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, in his Ubersoldat body, with his full arsenal seen therein.

Eddv's argument:

This is an interesting fight.

Lets start with neutral party V - she is starting out on a terrain alone, surrounded by ghosts and is gonna be wary of just about anyone who comes near.

The terrain itself is somewhat unique in that the enemy start off in a box in the middle of the terrain and my team starts off outside the box with visibility on it. V being in the middle. This means V is going to be closer to the doors and already wary and paranoid as a result of the hostile ghosts nearby. This means there are really few good choices for Team Mega Man in terms of getting out of their box. They end up immediately in conflict with V in some scenarios and having to deal with Zag/BJ/Cyberdemon with the others.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/3/1/AAR9yWAAET9b.png

Zag is chipped, which does suck, but he also has the Guan Yu Spear and his full complement of lightning powers. He is able to send off spin attacks with the spear that create a spinning projectile and this, along with normal spear strikes does restore his health. He also is here with his SUPER LIGHTNING Eris Railgun, with big explosive shots that both he and Cyberdemon are immune to. These special shots are nice big explosions and also stack on demeters ability to slow people down to 50% their speed which allows him to get his heals in when he needs it. The Special is actually BEST applied by the chiron bow which after one hit with the bow allows a bunch of stacks of the special to fly in on homing arrows. This is still full Zeus passives so the lightning is still flying everywhere and the call is coming fast, and this is stupid sexy zag passives, so he can charm someone, likely Rock or Kiryu to his side pretty fast, especially since he has Lost Souls to build meter on before the fight and if he needs to, he can always retreat and Guan Yu some Lost Souls to get health back too .This terrain is like, all pilars and stone and if there's anyone with experience juking and jiving around pillars and handling hostile regenerating ghosts while focusing on big targets, its Zag. He has 4 lives to get this done and I think he can.

Rail:
https://youtu.be/S5Ld3rOkwXI?t=1885
Guan Yu
https://youtu.be/u1YxlO9B97Y?t=1141

BJ still has his "fuck you robots" gun but now its even better as seen here:
https://youtu.be/cGjLwIIAP2w

Its now more like a mini-bfg and post-upgrades his body can take a real beating. He can fight at range and the LKWs big flashbang effect and bounces can be used with impunity because his front line, the Cyber Demon, doesn't give a shit about friendly fire. He can also dual-wield miniguns with his new body and is he has to dual wield double Semi-Automatic shotguns.

Finally, the real star here is upgraded Cyber Demon. My man is fucking ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/GkWjN85RIPQ
Just watch this boss fight and the ridiculous amount of punishment Doom Slayer needs to put into him to take him down. Then look at his offense - rockets fired at a fast clip, good strong melee, a hail of laser of fire, Crescents of fire shot as discs from his hands, the ability to just conjure terrain to create momentary 1 on 1 matchups. You will also note that, like Zag before him, this upgraded Cyber Demon does in fact need to be killed twice in order to die.

Tldr the numbers advantage is made up by the fact thar bokos team has to come out of a box which limits his ability to use things like the batmobile or to really plan or do much of anything that plays to his strengths.

Its also made up by the fact that Zag and CyberDemon need to lose multiple times to die

Heavily leaning Team Batman because it's close to a 5v1v2. Zagreus has practically killed himself taking the Guan Yu spear, which passively lowers his max health by 50% to 70% depending on upgrade level. Combined with V's relic reducing max health by 50% and draining it, he might legit drop dead from time passing, and even his death defiances will be worse off since they restore him to half of his max hp (which is being double reduced, so at best he's going to 12.5% of his normal HP instead of 50%, possibly lower if weapons aren't full upgraded).

Is V a "shoot first and ask questions later" kind if guy? He won't necessarily attack on sight, so he's probably going to be dealing with the Lost Souls and won't bother with anyone else if they won't bother him, unless there's some evidence to the contrary?

Mewtwo59 posted...

Is V a "shoot first and ask questions later" kind if guy? He won't necessarily attack on sight, so he's probably going to be dealing with the Lost Souls and won't bother with anyone else if they won't bother him, unless there's some evidence to the contrary?

Kinda varies by how you play things out, but I'd lean no. Quick on the draw, but not a mass murderer for no reason. I actually kinda feel Kiryu helps a lot there because someone like V would respect a badass of Kiryu's style.

As far as this match goes...mostly my question is 'how does Team Batman kill the Cyberdemon'. I have high OG Cyberdemon respect but 2016 Cybie D is a whole nother level of bulky. Doom 2016 guns are absolutely unreal good and you have to wail on it for minutes on end to kill it (I don't think it revives because Literally Satan (TM) intervened to do that, but it's still crazy dumb tanky). Nonzero chance it's so disruptive it lets Zag and BJ run game here. I think the Batmobile has the ordnance to kill it in a decent time, and Rock would eventually beat it, but it'd take forever and 'forever' is not something the team can afford while Zagreus and BJ are alive. If V takes their side, things might go a lot faster because hacks could reduce Cybie D's resistances a lot.

rika wins by doing absolutely nothing

I think V would join up with Batman's team if they agree to a truce to take care of the Lost Souls, and then they see the Lost Souls ignoring the other team. It requires them going out the right door, but Rika might help with that.

KJH posted...

Heavily leaning Team Batman because it's close to a 5v1v2. Zagreus has practically killed himself taking the Guan Yu spear, which passively lowers his max health by 50% to 70% depending on upgrade level. Combined with V's relic reducing max health by 50% and draining it, he might legit drop dead from time passing, and even his death defiances will be worse off since they restore him to half of his max hp (which is being double reduced, so at best he's going to 12.5% of his normal HP instead of 50%, possibly lower if weapons aren't full upgraded).

For what its worth, I literally asked Kanz this exact question and he said it wouldnt further reduce like that

Mewtwo59 posted...

I think V would join up with Batman's team if they agree to a truce to take care of the Lost Souls, and then they see the Lost Souls ignoring the other team. It requires them going out the right door, but Rika might help with that.

The Lost Souls are hostile to everyone.

Even Cyberdemon gets attacked by them in Doomguy is clever enough in Doom.

Was that an admin ruling or his interpretation? I have to ask because I know he's not always the clearest about it.

Eddv posted...

The Lost Souls are hostile to everyone.

Even Cyberdemon gets attacked by them in Doomguy is clever enough in Doom.

Oh. The terrain description should probably say "hostile to everyone" in that case.

The Lost Souls operate under Doom rules here. They'll chase the team opposing the Cyberdemon (teams, in this case) but will strike back at Cybie D's team if hurt by them.

I dont think theres really time for like full blown conversations.

"Tower of Babel" maybe implies to you that its a big tower but its really not. Its a relatively confined area similar to the sort of map youd see on PvP fps games of the day like Quake with the enemy team starting in a box and then fanning out into this outer area.

I provided a map but if you need a video here it is:

https://youtu.be/3JFrOwaWXv4

Fwiw the second you run into a lost soul and you know shoot it Cyberdemons insantly aware and runs at you so its not really THAT big.

V is far more likely to just take care of herself.

That's not much better, since V is going to be the first person fighting the Lost Souls, so the other team will go for him, forcing him on Team Batman's side.

Lightning.

Because it SO MUCH LIGHTNING. Lightning when he dashes. Lightning when you try to hit Zag and he dodges. Lightning when you try to hit Zag and succeed. If youve been struck by lightning and dare to attack anyone? You get struck by lightning. Lightning casts that ricochet to other nearby targets when it strikes.

immediately off of the bat, this is a match with three parties. One team will be blatantly giving away their position with massive amounts of lightning.

My interpretation is there is a much higher chance V engages with the team literally shining a spotlight hey all here we are! around itself than the team with Rika and Batman that have time loop and master level planning and strategy.

Beyond that, I think Batman can manage to wrangle his team along with Rika to overcome half health Zagreus and company after V and Zagreus engage. Remember, V is between the two teams, meaning that so much lightning will pull aggro on her before anything on Batman and Mega Man team.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

The Lost Souls operate under Doom rules here. They'll chase the team opposing the Cyberdemon (teams, in this case) but will strike back at Cybie D's team if hurt by them.

Right and normally we wouldnt but Zag here is bleeding and needs to hit things to heal so they would be attacking us.

I think the simplest explanation is that V is more likely to team with the group that's mostly regular humans rather than the big fucking demon

I feel like V, who is a solo operator, when left his own devices...solo operates.

V is just going to do solo stuff because that's V's MO I agree with that. He doesn't have to pick a side or anything lol

Hey Eddv, could you pinpoint where your team starts on that map you posted? I'm trying to imagine exactly where V starts here, since the bold says it's as close to equidistant as possible.

I also thibk its worth pointing out again that Cyber Demon doesnt have to worry about friendly fire at all which lets BJ use his rockets and miniguns with more or less reckless abandon and that Cyberdemons ability to hold aggro sort of speaks for itself.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Hey Eddv, could you pinpoint where your team starts on that map you posted? I'm trying to imagine exactly where V starts here, since the bold says it's as close to equidistant as possible.

Well Cyberdemon doesnt actually have a fixed start point its just over by one of the outer pillars

V doesn't actually operate that solo, as a note. He has a partner from basically the jump of the game to the end of the first act, then makes friends throughout the second act, and in the finale only doesn't call in friends for a final showdown because he doesn't want them to die for him. He can cooperate with people just fine. Winning him over is relevant here IMO.

I wasnt saying V is going to pick a side, to be clear, just that its way more likely that V first engages with the team spotlighting itself and shooting lightning sprays in Vs direction.

I'm guessing V starts in one of the outer rooms, then? Maybe just outside it? If he's outside, I think he engages with Zagreus's team first. Inside, it really depends on if V heads further in and which direction Batman's team goes. I think I remember something about V seeing through walls. Is that true?

Vs not alone they have Johnny!

Mewtwo59 posted...

I'm guessing V starts in one of the outer rooms, then? Maybe just outside it? If he's outside, I think he engages with Zagreus's team first. Inside, it really depends on if V heads further in and which direction Batman's team goes. I think I remember something about V seeing through walls. Is that true?

Well thats really hard to say because yeah the terrain is a circle.

Id been thinking just outside one of the doors

Serious question

is cyberpunk based on our history

would v recognize Batman

Chaeix posted...

Serious question

is cyberpunk based on our history

would v recognize Batman

I think so (re: the former bit)? The divergence point is long after Batman's creation. I don't know if Batman comics are still popular or known at all in the year 2077 though.

For what it's worth, Batman has teleportation

Batman's teleport is pretty good here. No way is anyone going to expect a guy swooping down on them from on top of the pillars. Only problem is that he needs his team to run ahead of him so he can teleport out.

Cyberdemon home field advantage.

I think the BJ/Cybie/Zagreus squad just have an absolutely terrifying mess of ranged explosive aoe and no one can answer it. Leon/Kiryu/Rika just don't stand much of a chance in hell here. Megaman and Batman definitely can survive for longer, but not long enough.

Zag is probably the weakest link on his team with his HP Penalty and I can definitely see Batman in particular taking advantage. Heck, if he notices Zag is lifestealing Bats could even start taking out the lost souls before Zag can get to them. Maybe. I'm trying to see how this isn't just Rockets and Lightning Everywhere = GG and it's so hard. As fun as it is to speculate about V's allegiences, I'm not sure they actually win it for team Megaman even if they join him (which is about a 50/50 given Cybie's general demeanor.)

I think quantum teleporting Batman finds a way. Well, him and the entire rest of his team.

I meqn team batman is stuck in a box to start this fight. I think hes gonna have a hard time gettibg out of eyeshot of his team

It's Batman, I would never question his ability to disappear even if you think you're looking at him

Ok but teleporting to where?

The place is crawling with Lost Souls? Hes surrounded by people where hes starting and most spots on the map are gonna be observed by someone.

I also think a factor helping me here is Zags access to Aphrodite dash, he can be dashing in ans inflicting weak and thej dashungnout causing chain lightning and really helping slow the enemy teams roll.

Eddv posted...

I also think a factor helping me here is Zags access to Aphrodite dash, he can be dashing in ans inflicting weak and thej dashungnout causing chain lightning and really helping slow the enemy teams roll.

another reason V gets aggrod by Zag and engages (and likely subsequently disengages) and eventually teams up with team Batman or at least helps his team by virtue of fighting Zag.

That dash lightning gonna be a big factor making V team up against Zag

I think V will notice the lightning before anything else, and seeing Cyberdemon on that team, V will probably attack them first. Once Batman's team shows up I don't think BJ or Zagreus last very long against six people, and then everyone gangs up on the Cyberdemon. Mega Man's copy of Raiden's blade should help with taking him down. Even if they screw up once or twice, Rika's rewinds will ensure they get a favorable matchup.

Team Batman

Would V, personality-wise, see the giant evil demon thing and on-sight wanna go "... that's rad, I want to beat the Hell out of it?"

Because I feel like Team Batman NEEDS V's firepower to take out the Cyberdemon. Zagreus is at least probably getting his debuff suite off, and BJ is durable enough to at least kill Leon and do some damage to everyone else (though I think Kiryu beats him up if he gets close, beating a cyborg in close combat is... VERY Kiryu. Ichiban beat a giant roomba with lasers by punching it, and he's way weaker than Kiryu). The Batmobile absolutely does work here, but Bats has to be able to stay open, which is hard on a terrain with a bunch of ghosty boys who wanna kill him.

Really it depends on what way V swings for me. Whatever team ends up convincing them wins, and if they don't go with anyone, this is an uphill climb for Bruce's squad that IS doable, but I dunno how consistently. Zagreus would really have to screw up constantly to not let Cyberdemon have an upper hand.

So I looked at a video of the map again, and I saw that there's actually no doors on the outer walls of the structure. So V definitely encounters Zagreus's team first. This is bad for them, since I see the Cyberdemon instantly going into kill mode.

Meanwhile, Batman can let his team know where exactly everyone is with his detective mode. If he sees V fighting the other team, he can send his team out a different door and try to sneak attack them. Batman stays in the main room and teleports on top of a pillar when everyone's gone.

Now from the videos posted, I'm not actually that impressed with the Cyberdemon. He's beefy, but his attack patterns don't seem too far off from a Mega Man boss's attacks. I think Mega Man eventually wins that one, but it'll take a while.

Batman takes advantage of the chaos to take out BJ. It won't be as easy as taking out scrubs in Gotham, but Batman's going to get in melee range before BJ knows he's there, and I take Batman to win a fistfight between the two.

I don't know how the Batmobile gets here (does it get airdropped?), and I'm also not sure how useful it'll be here with the sandy terrain. But a stationary gun can probably help out Mega Man a bit with the Cyberdemon before it gets destroyed.

V, Kiryu, and Leon can take a half-health Zagreus, especially if he's lowering his health even further by using the Guan Yu spear. I'm not sure which thing in his writeup actually gives him the four lives, but I've heard that he's not going to be revived with much health, so I think the trio can take him four times.

All in all, I think this just becomes a disaster for Zagreus's team from the moment the Cyberdemon sees V, so I'm going to have to go with Team We Don't Kill.

Batman + Rika

Reading the topic to learn that Batman has his no-line-of-sight teleportation is actually what swayed me. I think even just 1 redo of knowledge makes him ganking BJ a certainty. Even if Batman spontaneously combusts after that, Mega Man and Leon are probably enough to put down Cyberdemon and a dying Zagreus.

Mega Man easily kills the Cyberdemon here. They do not need V's firepower whatsoever. Mega Man could take him out with buster only.

Like Doom literally has a Plasma Cannon and it's one of the better weapons there. Saying Mega Man doesn't have the output to kill a Cyberdemon is absurd. His basic weapon should be more than enough.

Lopen posted...

Like Doom literally has a Plasma Cannon and it's one of the better weapons there. Saying Mega Man doesn't have the output to kill a Cyberdemon is absurd. His basic weapon should be more than enough.

It's a low to mid tier weapon in Doom 2016. Unless you mean the Gauss Cannon? Which is uhh...kind of past plasmagun level. But like, the plasmagun is like your third weapon out of like what, ten or twelve?

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Plasma_gun/Doom_(2016)

This one should be the very minimum output of Mega Man's Buster.

Again my base reference point for Doom is the OG one but it's all the same universe point is you've got Plasma as an established weapon type and it's generally better than the ballistics there.

I'm not saying Mega instantly kills him, just that he will eventually (he should have no problem dodging Cyberdemon's rockets this is Mega's standard enemy type) with his base weapon not considering any of his other stuff.