Board 8 > Tekken Mafia Topic 2 - Get ready for the next battle!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like we're focusing on whether Ulti is telling the truth about being at work when that isn't the relevant thing

The relevant things are this, and they are factual.

Ulti is playing differently than previous games where he was busy at work.
Ulti is claiming he is busy at work.

Those are both truths from evidence and direct statements. So let us assume he is telling the truth because he wouldn't lie about real life for a mafia game. Then you have two options, one of which is likely true.

1. He is busy at work but perhaps less busy than he was before.
2. He is busy at work but mafia is taking more of his attention in spite of that.

I feel either scenario paints him as likely scum. The former because his threshold of busyness that makes him claim he is busy is lower as scum because he's defensive. The latter because mafia is a team game and being lynched as scum is playing poorly and directly failing your mates. Being mislynched as town is more easily blown off as "well town misplayed" and easier to accept.

Lea vote Plum with us

Everyone vote Plum

Let's consolidate wagons earlier in the day please

I am saying you were telling the truth about being at work. Stop misrepresenting what people are saying so you can be the victim and play the game.

You think it's wrong to be suspicious because you're playing differently and you're town?

Then find scum. Help get this lynch of Plum going.

Kirby321 posted...

Er, I'm not sure I follow.

Please explain why you think all 8 of those players are town (barring yourself, of course).

I always take umbrage with how quick Ulti is to town clear people. I expect him to call at least 3 of those people scum within the next 24 hours

I will support a Plum lynch if we can't get a good rally on Ulti.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Yeah Plum is scum. I was getting there. You have my vote in spirit!

UltimaterializerX posted...

SCUMMONED

Then tries to divert to Corrik despite Plum gaining momentum and takes his ball and goes home

REAL INTERESTING. If Ulti or Plum flip scum you have your second lead pretty easily.

Lopen probably scum

I'd have to check if he mentioned work and business in his recent towngames, but frankly I find the behavior around his claim the more worthwhile aspect of his play to investigate.

He is busy at work but perhaps less busy than he was before.
He is busy at work but mafia is taking more of his attention in spite of that.

Scenario 1 is what he claims it is. And to me that doesnt make him more or less scummy.
If its scenario 2, I dont know how to prove that

masterplum posted...

Lopen probably scum

why?

htaeD posted...

Scenario 1 is what he claims it is. And to me that doesnt make him more or less scummy.

To me it does depending on when he said it (when did he say this?)

Obellisk posted...

why?

He should know this is a dumb train. Two people leading the charge are you and IGCD who are historically terrible at reading me.

Lopen is a smart guy. Why is he leading this charge? Because he knows when I flip town everyone is going to go lol guess it was just plum doing plum things and nobody will pin it on him

Quite the contrary

I would want people to pin it on me

I take my plum reading abilities very seriously. I pride myself in them.

No you dont

What? Don't I? I totally do. I know as scum you'll implode with just the right pressure applied, whereas as town you'll implode yourself. I seek redemption for Karate Kid mafia. I think today is my day.

Plum do you even know why Lopen voted you?

htaeD posted...

Plum do you even know why Lopen voted you?

Not really but it doesnt matter

I responded to you directly earlier and announced my suspicion then so you should know why.

Granted that was just one in a recurring theme.

I'd say it does because your defense of 'Lopen is never right anyway' is not gonna win many hearts

Lopen posted...

I responded to you directly earlier and announced my suspicion then so you should know why.

Granted that was just one in a recurring theme.

I might have missed it. I dont recall

So plum wants Lopen lynched if he flips town. Noted.

Oh shit you guys. This is alarming.

There was ten seconds, TEN SECONDS, between these two posts. Now speaking for myself that is just barely not enough time for me to re-read my own post and realize my typo, and then type up a response.

Obellisk posted...

Alas, lea blew me too early.

Obellisk posted...

AWAY!

BLEW ME AWAY!

jesus...

Am I crazy or did Sbell KNOW he was going to typo this before he hit post and then had a follow up response already prepared and this wasn't a mistake at all?!?!? Omg

You said I was posting "fluff" earlier (me and Ulti) when I was trying to build a case on Ulti, Wallz, and Ben. I have no idea why you came to the conclusion I was posting "fluff"

Ironic because I felt that's been your whole game. Just a lot of empty buzzwords that don't really apply to what's going on. Saying Ulti "just does things" to handwave what he's doing at all points. Saying Sbell is "loud wrong" when he... wasn't particularly loud or particularly wrong.

Reading your posts thus far has felt like I'm sitting first row on a campaign trail. Just a lot of stuff that sounds relevant to talk about without any evidence there's actual thought behind them.

Lopen posted...

You said I was posting "fluff" earlier (me and Ulti) when I was trying to build a case on Ulti, Wallz, and Ben. I have no idea why you came to the conclusion I was posting "fluff"

Ironic because I felt that's been your whole game. Just a lot of empty buzzwords that don't really apply to what's going on. Saying Ulti "just does things" to handwave what he's doing at all points. Saying Sbell is "loud wrong" when he... wasn't particularly loud or particularly wrong.

Reading your posts thus far has felt like I'm sitting first row on a campaign trail. Just a lot of stuff that sounds relevant to talk about without any evidence there's actual thought behind them.

Him claiming I'm leading the charge as an attempt to discredit the train is kind of funny too.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Him claiming I'm leading the charge as an attempt to discredit the train is kind of funny too.

us together.

Ben, that's a joke ya? just not sure if I'm supposed to address or not.

Lopen posted...

I don't believe Ulti is exonorated by showing a timesheet and I think him trying to derail the discussion into that so hard looks bad for him. He is moving the argument into an easily defensible position rather than focusing on game content where he is more soundly beaten.

As said before, there is another angle to take-- Scum Ulti would be more concerned with not failing his team in Mafia than town Ulti would so would be more likely to take his attention at work. The difference in behavior IS present regardless of whether he is at work or not, him being busy at work or not isn't completely relevant here.

Couldn't you make this same argument for any player, though? Why is Ulti specifically needing to be targeted for pockets of activity vs inactivity?

Feels a little late for Ben to joke around now, but it sure looks like he is

Hbthebattle posted...

Couldn't you make this same argument for any player, though? Why is Ulti specifically needing to be targeted for pockets of activity vs inactivity?

Name another player who is being vastly more or less active than the norm? You can't exactly make this same argument for any player because it doesn't apply to any player.

I can name exactly one other and it has influenced my read there as well

wallmasterz posted...

Ill definitely give some updated thoughts today (irl).

My first game with Ulti he quickly said hey scum, you better not shoot me, hint hint. My second game with Ulti he quickly said wow, I got the role Ive always wanted, but Im not sure how to proceed. This game, Ulti joked (or joked) about being annoyed by images and voted Lea in his first few posts and said nothing about his role. Its very obvious Ulti was never trying to fly under the radar in terms of participation or post content, but its the first game I ever played with him where he didnt blurt out stuff about his role in his first 2-3 posts. That is what I mean about Ulti not drawing attention. This coupled with his demeanor seeming more serious and less playful did stand out to me.

I agree with Peaf and Lea, I think Ive earned not being treated with kid gloves and I dont want anyone to approach me that way. Im playing the game. Treat me equally even if youre on my case for it. At the same time its a little insulting anyone interpreted my post as me saying Ulti is trying to fly under the radar when that is about as logical as saying Lea isnt trying to post gifs itt. Lol

Wallz looking like town to me. Only caveat is that i did say that last game at some point

htaeD posted...

Feels a little late for Ben to joke around now, but it sure looks like he is

It's never too late to stop joking, just as it's never too early to stop

I'm having some very interesting thoughts right now that I'm excited to share soon! Please be excited

The more I think about it the more I think that wallz as scum probably doesn't note Ulti's behavior as "different" if they're both scum. I feel as a newer player here he wouldn't have the audacity to bus his teammate that way even if I felt it was a distancing maneuver earlier.

Ulti x Plum much more likely than Ulti x Wallz atm.

Lopen posted...

Name another player who is being vastly more or less active than the norm? You can't exactly make this same argument for any player because it doesn't apply to any player.

I can name exactly one other and it has influenced my read there as well

That's not my point, dude. You're arguing that Ulti is trying to use the timesheet as a defense, but it's you and Sbell who dragged it into being relevant in the first place. If you think Ulti is trying to push the argument there, why are you engaging in it?

Hbthebattle posted...

If you think Ulti is trying to push the argument there, why are you engaging in it?

Because the argument isn't about whether he's actually at work or not it's "he's acting differently despite the situation being the same by what he claimed was the case-- so why is that?"

Personally I'm wondering if Hb is scum who is defending Ulti and pocketing wallz or if he's town who really just wants to one up me because I tore into his play super hard last game we played together

Because man you're REALLY reaching for some of this stuff

PunishedBen posted...

I'm having some very interesting thoughts right now that I'm excited to share soon! Please be excited

WOOO!

When will soon be now Ben?

Obellisk posted...

Lets not forget this is mafia, the same mafia where scum chris told scum sultan to play up his concussion in game. Its a game of deception and lies. You've never lied about being busy when you are scum and just haven't read or are afraid you'll get found out if you post too much? We are all guilty of lies and emotional deception.

So high horses should be left at the door.

+1

Obellisk posted...

When will soon be now Ben?

Sometime between now and the end of day 1 .

First step is me being caught up

Lopen posted...

Ulti twisting Sbell's argument into a victim worthy thing feels like a manipulation here. Not really how the original argument was going I feel.

I agree with this and feel like Sbell comes out of that feeling town and Ulti comes out with me feeling not convinced at all

Found it

Peace___Frog posted...

Concur.
Did ANYBODY pay attention to his demeanor in his most recent game, or even in the signups topic?

This post struck me as odd. Peaf has only played BCT's Simple Mafia with Corrik, and possibly DotA 2 Mafia. Corrik was very much present and into the game's discussion during both of those games. While we might see that same evolution of Corrik in this game... two posts is way too early to call that, especially with such few games to reference.

I can give Lopen a pass because he's tends to see things that aren't always there. But I'm a little wary of how assured Peaf seems to be of Corrik leaning Town given his relative inexperience with Corrik.

On another note, I'm liking Hb. He seems very much engaged and addressing other arguments, which I believe is a contrast compared to his one scum game where he wasn't doing much. I also could've sworn the last time he and Lopen were butting heads like this, they were both Town.

?
Bro just because i died n2 of xb3 (his most recent game that i have compared to this multiple times over) does not mean i didn't continue to follow that game until its completion.

Kirby321 posted...

But I'm a little wary of how assured Peaf seems to be of Corrik leaning Town given his relative inexperience with Corrik.

Like this is just a straight up lie.

Do i have as much experience as red? Obviously not. But like i said, I've been comparing exclusively to his latest game... which i was in.
Does it only count if i live to endgame? Day 1 there wasn't real?

Lopen posted...

Ulti is playing differently than previous games where he was busy at work.
Ulti is claiming he is busy at work.

Are these actually facts? I don't think I noticed anything that different about Ulti compared to the previous few games, aside from him not instantly claiming. I guess there was the whole "images bad" phase he had, but that doesn't feel completely substantial.

... I'm starting to wonder if I'm barking up the wrong tree. These arguments against Ulti seem garbage. And yet Ulti's arguments against Lopen and Sbell are equally weak.

I have a feeling there's scum in there. Between Sbell and Ulti... I lean Ulti as scum, but I honestly don't feel positively about either of them right now.

Peace___Frog posted...

?
Bro just because i died n2 of xb3 (his most recent game that i have compared to this multiple times over) does not mean i didn't continue to follow that game until its completion.

I... completely forgot Corrik was in that game. Okay, I can kinda see your angle then. I don't agree with it at all, but it's understandable once you factor in XC3 Mafia