Board 8 > Tekken Mafia Topic 7 - Death by Degrees

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Leafeon13N
04/05/23 1:19:33 AM
#101:


Isquen posted...


I don't know if pursuing that train of thought is healthy,
None of this above this statement is healthy.

And sleeping on all of this sucks because there isn't a proper way to start working on the day without the information you are holding.
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Kirby321
04/05/23 1:50:37 AM
#102:


I presume that Isquen saw one of the claimed power roles visiting whoever he scanned last night.

Because if he saw someone visiting that claimed Vanilla, they'd be the opposite of town confirmed.

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Kirby321
04/05/23 1:51:44 AM
#103:


Also why are we still entertaining the lynch of Plum

Can we please not lynch the uncountered Doctor

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Leafeon13N
04/05/23 1:59:57 AM
#104:


Kirby321 posted...
I presume that Isquen saw one of the claimed power roles visiting whoever he scanned last night
Did i miss someone claiming power...? Who are you referring to?
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Kirby321
04/05/23 2:00:26 AM
#105:


For IGCD's reference, these are all the claims:

1) Abacus - Zafina, Vanilla
2) Corrik - Yoshimitsu, ???
3) Death - Sergei Dragunov, Vanilla
4) Hb - ???
5) IGCD - Ling Xiaoyu, Vanilla
6) Isquen - Master Raven, Watcher
7) Kirby - Josie Rizal, Vanilla
8) Lea - Emilie de Rochefort (Lili), Vanilla
9) MZero - ???
10) Plum - Dr. Bosconovitch, Doctor
11) Red - ???

Call me crazy, but I remember talking about how convenient it was that the first two claims for mass claims were Vanillas who claimed immediately, after Lea pointed out that scum tend to claim last.

Peaf was the very first one to claim. He flipped scum.

Abacus was the second to claim. Could he also have claimed immediately to throw off anyone thinking he was scum? Hmm...

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Kirby321
04/05/23 2:04:04 AM
#106:


Leafeon13N posted...
Did i miss someone claiming power...? Who are you referring to?

*checks list*

Right, the only implied power role on there would be Corrik, since Plum was already cleared by Isquen. I wasn't thinking clearly on that and thought we had more unconfirmed power roles.

I see now why Isquen is holding his scan. I'm inclined to believe that whoever he saw is definitely town, yes. But they'll have to come forth to claim first.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 2:45:39 AM
#107:


Kirby321 posted...
For IGCD's reference, these are all the claims:

1) Abacus - Zafina, Vanilla
2) Corrik - Yoshimitsu, ???
3) Death - Sergei Dragunov, Vanilla
4) Hb - ???
5) IGCD - Ling Xiaoyu, Vanilla
6) Isquen - Master Raven, Watcher
7) Kirby - Josie Rizal, Vanilla
8) Lea - Emilie de Rochefort (Lili), Vanilla
9) MZero - ???
10) Plum - Dr. Bosconovitch, Doctor
11) Red - ???

Call me crazy, but I remember talking about how convenient it was that the first two claims for mass claims were Vanillas who claimed immediately, after Lea pointed out that scum tend to claim last.

Peaf was the very first one to claim. He flipped scum.

Abacus was the second to claim. Could he also have claimed immediately to throw off anyone thinking he was scum? Hmm...
I voted death because he generally refuses to claim as town.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 2:50:31 AM
#108:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
It doesn't mean anything to me, one team could be claiming the doctor role while the other could be scared of getting seen by watcher when trying to kill the doctor claim.
It means town should have a lot of protection, but the protection can be bypassed also.

You have two roles (one each team) that can counter role powers. And then you have obtainable strongman modifiers.

I'm going to assume townpower exists in the unclaimed because town is woefully unprepared. Hell, both teams had a literal ninja to bypass the watcher. Probably both teams have a godfather too.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 2:54:58 AM
#109:


Isquen posted...
See, this right here is what I'm worried about. I ignored the WIFOM and went to plum, and saw saw someone visiting him yesterday again and now G Corp knows who it is from the briefly pilfered result. I flipped a coin on scanning red instead just to test my "counterattacker" theory and am sort of glad I didn't now.

Alternatively, it could be a real, scum doctor on G Corp side, that has the ability happened to target a real, scum person to protect them, and I'm suddenly wondering why Lopen went off the rails at both Plum and Lea. Could they be G Corp, Plum claiming said safelist doctor, but Lea being Kazuya, and Plum protecting her? I've known Lea to peek at safelist before and pick what was extra appealing.

I don't know if pursuing that train of thought is healthy, though. We do, after all, have some living inactives that have been barely keeping their head overwater, and Lopen only knew that his scan was swiped, and got it back for a moment before he got knocked out. For example, if he was telling the truth about scanning red, G Corp now knows red's alignment for sure, and red isn't dead, which looks bad for him.

Mathematically I'm going to assume there's one Mishima Zaibatsu left as Heihachi, who is probably among the inactives, and two of the G Corp, so town doesn't complete implode on itself if scum whiffs at killing each other constantly. I'm not entirely 100% certain of plum anymore, even if all evidence does point to him being town, but I still don't think aiming at him is the play today. Instead, I think the right call is either an inactive or Lea. Mostly something that's bothering me when she was bringing up "my main" comment in her spat between Ulti, whereas the flip for Anna said "this is the host's main" but I have to look back at topic 1 and see if it was Ulti who brought it up first. Then I have to wade through the mire that is Lopen's Grand Conspiracy Theory at the end of day 2. Then I have to ISO further because everything she's done so far is town-centric, but this is before we knew of the existence of a third-party TEAM for sure.

I also can't discount wallz's self-preservation vote at the end of day. It could be a ruse.

##unvote

I've gotta sleep on this, methinks.
If g Corp knows reds alignment and didn't shoot red, I think this actually is good for red. This means he scanned good and they didn't wanna waste a shot on the town. Their best recourse was to eliminate Mishima before any of them flipped, to mask their team existing.

Now on the flipside, the remaining Mishima being godfather is high. So, it might not mean much that red scanned not guilty.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 2:58:34 AM
#110:


masterplum posted...
Man I called it so hard

I am referring to the 2 scum teams thing but also to wallz

Thank you very much MISHIMA surviving member for killing Lopen. I very much appreciate it.
What? G Corp shot lopen. Mishima shot Peaf.

Also don't thank someone for killing town.

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red13n
04/05/23 3:00:20 AM
#111:


Also annoyed that scum gained a Strongman for town doing good.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:04:09 AM
#112:


Corrik7 posted...

I voted death because he generally refuses to claim as town.


I dont think that's true at all

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:10:38 AM
#113:


I dont know if either scumteam would ever shoot Red before any of all the claimed power we have now..
Then again maybe they thought Red was hiding power.

Anyway I no longer believe IGCD is merely antitown. He's being too dumb to be truly dumb.

Also did HB just do a driveby posting and ditch again? Surprised nobody commented on that besides Lea.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:15:33 AM
#114:


Kirby is NOT on G Corp. Strong possibility for last Mishima though.

Death probably is on G Corp.

Peaf calls Lopen and Kirby his strongest town reads day 1. It is extremely unlikely peaf calls out a teammate for one of these reads. Thus, Kirby is not G Corp.

Just like Ulti calling out Lopen and Peaf specifically (I had both of them town for this), ended up just being neither could be Mishima with him. It was a good read with erroneous results due to lack of knowledge of the second scum team.

Anywho Kirby is not G Corp. Much more work left to do however in uncovering these intricacies.

I do feel also that G Corp possibly didn't know the second scum team existed day 1. Thus, as Ulti gets ready to flip they could possibly start pondering if he is actually town. Peaf doesn't do this, but we do see igcd offer to due for ulti. I said this generally made me certain igcd was town and not scum with ulti. This no longer precludes him from g Corp, but doesn't mean he is.

However, Leas comment that if ulti flips town yadda yadda regarding IGCD is interesting as well.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:15:53 AM
#115:


htaeD posted...
I dont think that's true at all
Why did I vote you then?

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:16:43 AM
#116:


red13n posted...
Also annoyed that scum gained a Strongman for town doing good.
Who cares. They don't have it now anyways and it didn't matter.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:19:39 AM
#117:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Just for the record, this may be the exact Mishima team perfectly. I could take this two ways. 1 it's random but precludes all G Corp members from someone protecting their small team without knowing of the second team or 2. She suspects the second team would exist and I expect this accuracy with knowing the alignments of all of G Corp to narrow from the field of suspects.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:24:11 AM
#118:


Corrik7 posted...

Why did I vote you then?


Because you think otherwise?
I am not your mom Corrik.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:24:15 AM
#119:


Peace___Frog posted...
Ulti/death/hb/kirby/? Pack it up folks


One of these is definitely G Corp and I know it's not Kirby or Ulti.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:24:40 AM
#120:


htaeD posted...
Because you think otherwise?
I am not your mom Corrik.
You just told me you know why I do what I do more than I know. So, I figured you were or something.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:26:18 AM
#121:


Wouldn't scum have to know another scumteam exists if their team was small?

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:27:43 AM
#122:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Lea keeps making these man what if ulti is town posts right before ulti flips.

For what it is worth.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:28:07 AM
#123:


Oh you misread me

I voted death because he generally refuses to claim as town.


This is the part that is not true at all.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:29:05 AM
#124:


htaeD posted...
Wouldn't scum have to know another scumteam exists if their team was small?
No. They could suspect, but they wouldn't know. There is other possibilities that exist.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:31:29 AM
#125:


Maybe, but Peaf knew Nina existed.

Or is Nina considered good enough to not always be scum?

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:31:57 AM
#126:


htaeD posted...
Oh you misread me

This is the part that is not true at all.
You misread me. You responded to why I voted you and told me it was wrong. When I asked why you said I was wrong. You said because I thought differently and you aren't my mom.

Just stop. It's weird.

You refuse to claim as town all the time. You even precluded your claim with justification for doing so. "Well, I ain't power so...". But, of course, that isn't also true and presents the conundrum that if you would only not claim as town power that you implicitly claim town power everytime you refuse to claim anyways.

You especially hate claiming for me in general when I ask you.

Nothing I said is wrong. You would have been better off arguing that the context was different than usual.

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#127
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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:32:35 AM
#128:


htaeD posted...
Maybe, but Peaf knew Nina existed.

Or is Nina considered good enough to not always be scum?
Could be third party. Could be town.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:35:35 AM
#129:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You are correct. Why do you know the exact post I was referencing without me having quoted it?

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#130
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#131
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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:39:30 AM
#132:


For the record, I am almost coming around entirely to Lea and Death are G Corp and Kirby is Mishima, regardless of that.

Lea, why did you last second vote wallz? Break down how it went in your mind.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:41:11 AM
#133:


Corrik you are not my mom either, I said you were thinking differently in the sense that you apparently believe I never claim easily as town when I am sure I have done so.

A masclaim condoned by many players is different from you just asking me to claim by myself anyway

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:41:56 AM
#134:


htaeD posted...
Corrik you are not my mom either, I said you were thinking differently in the sense that you apparently believe I never claim easily as town when I am sure I have done so.

A masclaim condoned by many players is different from you just asking me to claim by myself anyway
"You would have been better off arguing different context"

Death: "well the context was different"

Great conversation.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:43:38 AM
#135:


Mzero and Violent are wild cards here. I need to look at them more specifically, but I like where I am atm.


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#136
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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:45:18 AM
#137:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Why would you be worried about a potential sudden death where you could have changed your vote then anyways. It reeks of being worried death could get sniped, specifically.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:45:45 AM
#138:


You said I did not claim early as if it was a general context-less habit.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:46:40 AM
#139:


htaeD posted...
You said I did not claim early as if it was a general context-less habit.


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htaeD
04/05/23 3:47:12 AM
#140:


Wallz was definitely laying low to see who he could vote to save himself.
I am a bit concerned that he did not vote Kirby all that time tho.

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htaeD
04/05/23 3:47:31 AM
#141:


Ok whatever Corrik, done talking to you.

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#142
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#143
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htaeD
04/05/23 3:51:34 AM
#144:


HB should at the very least explain where the hell he was day2

Mzero at least has timezone problems, but I agree that he's been coasting of early votes

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:52:24 AM
#145:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yes very suspect indeed. However, I am still good with where I am at atm. The only thing pointing to you being town was the interaction with Ulti which turned out to be null for your alignment due to multiple scum teams. Nothing else is very flattering regarding your play this game.

Lopen definitely went tinfoil, but he may not be off entirely. He is very good for getting to x via a ridiculous amount of bullshit in between that makes no sense to where he ended up.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 3:53:50 AM
#146:


Corrik and G-Corp After Dark Special.

<333

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#147
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Corrik7
04/05/23 4:06:54 AM
#148:


Lopen would be yelling it's Lea and Red right now. And that's an interesting idea too.

So let's consider this. And ignore the Lea end of it because it's actually extraneous.

Lopens scan of Red is stolen by peaf. If peaf flips, lopen gets it back. Now we know that the likelihood of reds scan was town if he is not indeed G Corp. Last Mishima is likely godfather anyways.

So why did Lopen get shot by G Corp?

Well, there is that the Watcher was basically required to watch plum. Plum was basically required to save isquen. So, you could argue that they wanted to avoid this and hit into claimed power off this. This doesn't work because they had a ninja. And they had a strongman. They could have strongmanned through a doctor save on isquen. They could have ninjad and strongmanned through plum.

So why again kill the town cop. They could have just stole his scan again right and strongmanned or ninjad their kill.

Well...

1. Lopen suspected Lea heavily and was likely the cop scan.
2. If Peaf dies, Lopen gets the scan back on Red.
3. They preferred to steal the watcher result than the cop scan and rather than kill the watcher due to helping them find scum and/or resolve town powers.

This could also explain again why G Corp didn't kill Red. Because Red is G Corp. Its a possibility and could go down the angle that Red and Lea are G Corp together. However, if so, one of these is likely godfather. Which if Red, they have nothing to fear about Lopen getting his result back. Or if not Red, Lea woulda scanned town anyways and been beneficial for Lopen to remain alive to scan godfather Lea.

Thus, this team is too tidy and likely incorrect.

I feel it is likelier Red scans inno and G Corp didn't think it was worth the shot. Lea scans guilty. Death is the godfather for G Corp.

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Corrik7
04/05/23 4:09:55 AM
#149:


Tldr Red and Lea aren't G Corp together. Red could be g Corp or Lea but not together.

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#150
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