Poll of the Day > Why were abra Kadabra and allakhazam so good?

(+) Yeah! (+)

With all the TM?

Because psychic typing was OP in gen 1 and they have a very potent stat distribution.

Pokemon is generally a game of rocket-tag, they're both speedy and hard-hitting. Doesn't help that their "counters" in the first game all had the poison subtype and were weak to those powerful attacks.

And if I recall, it didn't help that first gen had the special defense and attack stats merged together, so I think even if you could hit the thing with like Hydro Pump or Thunder it would survive it.

Yeah, gen 1 just had "special". Combined with the fact that Alakazam was a speedy boi, it could oneshot a lot of stuff. Also Psychic was unresisted by anything except other Psychics. It also had access to recover, thunder wave (100% accuracy, hit behind substitutes in gen1, also hit electric types till gen6), and seismic throw, which let it cheese a lot of shit that could maybe otherwise stall it

Only real weakness was low HP so it got fucked if you managed to paralyze or sleep it yourself

Too bad the rental Alakazam sucked ass in Pokemon Stadium... Kadabra's moveset was way better in every cup, hell the morons gave him basic-ass Confusion in the gym leader castle as his one Psychic move, and even worse they gave him fucking Psywave in the Pika Cup.

In gen 2 all the elemental punches were special so it was stupid strong and covered everything.

the types that were supposed to counter them were bug and ghost, one was worthless and the other had lick as a STAB move. gen 1 psychic is the strongest a type has probably ever been.

Nade_Duck posted...

the types that were supposed to counter them were bug and ghost, one was worthless and the other had lick as a STAB move. gen 1 psychic is the strongest a type has probably ever been.

Beedrill was my pokemon of choice for those gen 1 Psychic battles. Get two of them for PP reasons, and they dominated the entire section of the game.

Entity13 posted...

Beedrill was my pokemon of choice for those gen 1 Psychic battles. Get two of them for PP reasons, and they dominated the entire section of the game.

yeah, alakazam's piss poor defense was its only weakness. thing is if you didn't one shot it it would one shot you, or heal whatever damage you did back up, and pin missile was still really weak and luck based. generally better off with something that neutral hit fast and hard. other psychics weren't as bad about it, but still really strong.

or cheese it with toxic and maybe leech seed because gen 1 was broken as fuck.

unfortunately, alakazam wins out against beedrill pretty definitively

https://i.gyazo.com/0ff41e1de5df80e6bc328d991d72bc79.png

Nade_Duck posted...

yeah, alakazam's piss poor defense was its only weakness. thing is if you didn't one shot it it would one shot you, or heal whatever damage you did back up, and pin missile was still really weak and luck based. generally better off with something that neutral hit fast and hard. other psychics weren't as bad about it, but still really strong.

or cheese it with toxic and maybe leech seed because gen 1 was broken as fuck.

lol Pin Missile. It's funny, because that's learned at level 30 with 14 power and 85 accuracy, whereas my go-to was the level 20 ability, Twineedle, with 25 power and 100 accuracy (combined with weakness). Or, if you have the TM for it, grab Double-Edge for its 100 power and 100 accuracy. For that point in the game where you're dealing with a ton of Psychic types, it's actually smooth sailing.

agesboy posted...

unfortunately, alakazam wins out against beedrill pretty definitively

https://i.gyazo.com/0ff41e1de5df80e6bc328d991d72bc79.png

When built like that, maybe. But I'm talking the first trek through Saffron City. You're probably not dealing with endgame levels or builds there.

yes, i'm talking objective levels of power, not "this one mon wasn't built horrifically in the main game"

beedrill doesn't even has a single option that could OHKO alakazam, and alakazam has twice its speed to begin with, so there is absolutely nothing beedrill can even do if they are on the same level. it's not like beedrill specifically scales better at lower levels, it's just shittier statwise. you can say alakazam's defense is bad, but it's equal to beedrill's special stat, and beedrill excels in literally nothing unlike alakazam which has absurdly high special and speed

you don't even need to optimize or anything, beedrill is just a bad option at all points of the game because you can't get around those low stats except by outlevelling your opponent or relying on AI stupidity

agesboy posted...

yes, i'm talking objective levels of power, not "this one mon wasn't built horrifically in the main game"

beedrill doesn't even has a single option that could OHKO alakazam, and alakazam has twice its speed to begin with, so there is absolutely nothing beedrill can even do if they are on the same level. it's not like beedrill specifically scales better at lower levels, it's just shittier statwise. you can say alakazam's defense is bad, but it's equal to beedrill's special stat, and beedrill excels in literally nothing unlike alakazam which has absurdly high special and speed

you don't even need to optimize or anything, beedrill is just a bad option at all points of the game because you can't get around those low stats except by outlevelling your opponent or relying on AI stupidity

And like I said, at that point in the game, it remains smooth sailing, no matter what Alakazam's speed is. It's possible I just had good rng at the time, and never had the problem of being OHKO'd due to, as you put it, AI stupidity, but I'm taking those numerous wins and zero losses I actually received against an emulation site that calls the Alakazam the clear winner.

Entity13 posted...

lol Pin Missile. It's funny, because that's learned at level 30 with 14 power and 85 accuracy, whereas my go-to was the level 20 ability, Twineedle, with 25 power and 100 accuracy (combined with weakness). Or, if you have the TM for it, grab Double-Edge for its 100 power and 100 accuracy. For that point in the game where you're dealing with a ton of Psychic types, it's actually smooth sailing.

well yeah, but either way both bug moves are terrible and double edge would better serve a kangaskhan or tauros or ssomething. most i ever used bug types in gen 1 is butterfree up to a little past misty. i actually really like bug types (yanmega is almost always in my group if it's an option :<) but they're such a tragic waste of a spot in gen 1.

but yeah the game isn't exactly the hardest so it really isn't a big deal to keep one with you anyway.

Pin Missile Jolteon always did the trick for me, it outspeeds Alakazam and has enough special to tank its hits plus he has access to sand attack

Entity13 posted...

And like I said, at that point in the game, it remains smooth sailing, no matter what Alakazam's speed is. It's possible I just had good rng at the time, and never had the problem of being OHKO'd due to, as you put it, AI stupidity, but I'm taking those numerous wins and zero losses I actually received against an emulation site that calls the Alakazam the clear winner.

Sure, you can beat the game with an unevolved Caterpie too. That does not mean an unevolved Caterpie is actually good. Beedrill isn't a counter to Alakazam, the player is a counter to the AI's idiocy.

Also, "an emulation site"? It's literally a calculator. Pokemon is probably a lot more deterministic than you think it is

Muscles posted...

Pin Missile Jolteon always did the trick for me, it outspeeds Alakazam and has enough special to tank its hits plus he has access to sand attack

Jolteon definitely is a counter to Alakazam in gen 1 tho, mostly because higher speed + thunder wave will fuck Alakazam up. They innately deal about the same damage to each other, but Alakazam becomes VERY easy to play around if paralyzed

lmfao beedrill ain't doing jack shit against Alakazam