Current Events > Android 13, 16, 17, 18 vs OG Broly

(+) Yeah! (+)

Android 13, 16, 17, 18

Vs

OG Broly in his LSSj Form

Battlefield is abandoned city
No Planet Destruction
Battle begins once Broly transforms into LSSj
Broly's Anger/Power gradually increases as time goes on, as if Goku was there
13 can go to his Super Form

Who wins?

Any android with an intact bomb smokes him.

Broly stomps

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Any android with an intact bomb smokes him.

How come a bomb can, but not all the other types of explosions caused by ki blasts?

GeminiDeus posted...

How come a bomb can, but not all the other types of explosions caused by ki blasts?

I would say Cell is at least somewhat comparable in terms of durability for argument's sake, and Cell seemed like he was concerned about an android self destruction.

Also, I'd factor in.....whatever the hell happens to him at the end of the first Broly movie.

GeminiDeus posted...

How come a bomb can, but not all the other types of explosions caused by ki blasts?

Bad writing.

If it is Android 17 from the Cell Saga, Broly squashes them.

If it is Android 17 from DBS, then 17 solos Broly.

DBZ #17 or DBS #17?

The former gets trashed, the latter solos.

Heartomaton posted...

DBZ #17 or DBS #17?

The former gets trashed, the latter solos.

If it's DBS Seventeen then you gotta make it DBS Broly to balance it out lol

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Any android with an intact bomb smokes him.

Dude literally survived his own body exploding and a planet-sized comet colliding into the planet he was fighting on destroying both in a planetary explosion.

He'd be fine

A more fair fight is 17 vs everyone

Broly wrecks them all in hilarious fashion

Broly. His power is maximum.

VFalcone posted...

Dude literally survived his own body exploding and a planet-sized comet colliding into the planet he was fighting on destroying both in a planetary explosion.

He'd be fine

Yeah but Dragon Ball planets are made of cookies

Incredible posted...

If it's DBS Seventeen then you gotta make it DBS Broly to balance it out lol

The topic specifies a version of Broly, but not 17, which is why I asked.

Also, stfu scotty

How many poachers has 17 fought in preparation for this bout? This is very important.

GeminiDeus posted...

How come a bomb can, but not all the other types of explosions caused by ki blasts?

Anime/ videogame logic.
An explosion that also damages/kill it's user always stronger than regular explosion.

Broly from the first movie he appeared in? Any of 16, 17, or 18 would stomp him, much less all together.

PraetorXyn posted...

Broly from the first movie he appeared in? Any of 16, 17, or 18 would stomp him, much less all together.

That not right.

All evidence points to this being Goku/Gohan/Vegeta/Trunks post ROSAT training. USSJ Vegeta or Trunks would smoke 13/16/17/18 with ease, let alone Goku and Gohan. Piccolo was also fused with Kami, who was at least equal to 17 (if this was before he trained in the ROSAT too). In the movie, Broly wipes the floor with all of them at the same time.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Any android with an intact bomb smokes him.

Meh, the bombs are overrated. Here is what Cell had to say about 16:

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P9.2
Context: after No.16's failed attempt to self-destruct
Cell: Too bad, No.16Though I dont think I would have died from a mere bomb anyway.

Highly doubt they would kill Broly either.

Heartomaton posted...

That not right.

They hadnt even ascended and managed to beat him as a team of regular SSJ. Android 18 tore most of that team apart by herself. At least unless my memory is way worse than I thought it was.

PraetorXyn posted...

They hadnt even ascended and managed to beat him as a team of regular SSJ. Android 18 tore most of that team apart by herself. At least unless my memory is way worse than I thought it was.

The first Broly movie is set near the end of the Android Saga, not the beginning. This is around the time everyone was training for the Cell Games, which would mean it's late enough that 17 and 18 are no match for any of the main fighters who aren't named Yamcha, Tien, and Krillin.

Goku and Gohan aren't as strong as they were at the Cell Games in the first Broly movie, but they're definitely stronger than the androids. So are Vegeta and Trunks.

Incredible posted...

Goku and Gohan aren't as strong as they were at the Cell Games in the first Broly movie

They kind of have to be. Gohan is a Super Saiyan in the movie, so that means he and Goku have already trained for a year in a day with the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Since they only went in there once, and spent the remainder of the time before the games resting, they wouldn't be any stronger.

Unless it's different in the manga. I've never read it.

Incredible posted...

Goku and Gohan aren't as strong as they were at the Cell Games in the first Broly movie

On what basis?

Not that it matters. Broly annihilates all the aforementioned androids at once as people have already said.

A better matchup would be 13/14/15 vs 16/17/18, or Super 13 vs 16 or maybe even Semi-Perfect Cell.

Heartomaton posted...

They kind of have to be. Gohan is a Super Saiyan in the movie, so that means he and Goku have already trained for a year in a day with the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Since they only went in there once, and spent the remainder of the time before the games resting, they wouldn't be any stronger.

Unless it's different in the manga. I've never read it.

Youre correct.

Lol Goku is clearly stronger than Gohan in the movie whereas Gohan is stronger than Goku at the Cell Games even without SS2

Incredible posted...

Lol Goku is clearly stronger than Gohan in the movie whereas Gohan is stronger than Goku at the Cell Games even without SS2

And androids 13/14/15 somehow dont one-shot the saiyans as punishment for not starting out in SSJ. No one ever accused the movies of making sense.

Incredible posted...

Lol Goku is clearly stronger than Gohan in the movie whereas Gohan is stronger than Goku at the Cell Games even without SS2

I'm not sure why I have to point this out to someone who posts Dragonball bullshit as part of a gimmick personality on a dying message board, but:

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan > Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Gohan.

That was kinda the whole fuckin' point of the thing in the first place.

Edit: Oh yeah, I remember why I have to point it out.

Heartomaton posted...

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan > Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Gohan.

Gohan was stronger than Goku as an SS1. May wanna read the manga before you pretend you know what you're talking about lol

Heartomaton posted...

I'm not sure why I have to point this out to someone who posts Dragonball bullshit as part of a gimmick personality on a dying message board, but:

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan > Super Saiyan Goku > Super Saiyan Gohan.

That was kinda the whole fuckin' point of the thing in the first place.

Edit: Oh yeah, I remember why I have to point it out.

At the Cell Games its made clear Gohan has surpassed Goku even before SSJ2. Youre right about that user though.

Goku halfway powers up and Gohan isn't impressed:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/9/AAfdaFAAEixh.jpg
Goku fully powers up and Gohan still isn't impressed:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/4/AAfdaFAAEviA.jpg
Goku asks Gohan if he was impressed by his fight with Cell and he says no:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/5/AAfdaFAAEviB.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/6/AAfdaFAAEviC.jpg
Gohan fully powers up and everyone is blown away even after seeing Goku's full power earlier:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/7/AAfdaFAAEviD.jpg
Gohan was clearly stronger than Goku without SS2.

Didn't SSJ Gohan get bodied by Cell? Lmao. Cell even calls him a joke right there and was disappointed after fighting Goku. That's present in the anime as well. The other Z fighters Including Piccolo, Vegeta, and Krillin (at least in the anime) state that they don't think Gohan's power is enough. They have doubts.

I think you misunderstood the text. Both Goku and Gohan know that Gohan is the stronger one, not because he's actively stronger in SSJ, but because he has a massive reservoir of hidden power he can tap into. He has higher potential. Goku doesn't have that.

Goku SSJ > Gohan SSJ under normal circumstances. Because standard SSJ Gohan doesn't account for the hidden power. Even when 16 died and Gohan did his first power-up, Cell was still not impressed and compared him to Trunks. His power rose significantly, but not enough. Only when he went SSJ2 did his power really explode.

VFalcone posted...

Didn't SSJ1 Gohan get bodied by Cell? Lmao

He smashed him on his ass when he wanted to. The problem was Gohans sudden suicidal pacifism. The writing was a little clunky there, but the intention was clear.

Pointing out that Gohan was able to sense his dad's current ceiling but not his own doesn't change what I said.

He could tell how strong Goku was able to get at the level they had reached in the time chamber, but not how strong he could get.

Right in the example you posted, Gohan has to transform before anyone other than Goku was able to sense his ceiling, and what he was capable of if he did his usual bit of smashing through it when something really put him in a corner and/or pissed him off.

Again, kind of the whole point.

Heartomaton posted...

Pointing out that Gohan was able to sense his dad's current ceiling but not his own doesn't change what I said.

He could tell how Goku was able to get at the level they had reached in the time chamber, but not how strong he could get.

Right in the example you posted, Gohan has to transform before anyone other than Goku was able to sense his ceiling, and what he was capable of if he did his usual bit of smashing through it when something really put him in a corner and/or pissed him off.

Again, kind of the whole point.

Gohan thought Goku was holding back because he was comparing the power he sensed to his own. Its quite clear what the narrative was telling us.

Idk why we're arguing about Gohan right now, but LSSj Broly dumpsters the androids.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Idk why we're arguing about Gohan right now, but LSSj Broly dumpsters the androids.

Cell Games Gohan > Goku denial is a new one indeed. But at least its somewhat refreshing - far more than Super Buu > Kid Buu denial anyway. And I know Im risking a lot by saying that.

Broly vs the androids is a weird one though. Like, its not even remotely controversial. Its a complete mismatch.

I'm not saying that Cell Games Gohan is weaker than Cell Games Goku, I'm saying you can't look at the specific situation, which hinges on changing from one form of Gohan another due to a part of the canon story structure, to a typical Goku saves the day story.

Dark_Arbron posted...

He smashed him on his ass when he wanted to. The problem was Gohans sudden suicidal pacifism. The writing was a little clunky there, but the intention was clear.

I said this in an edit but

Goku SSJ > Gohan SSJ under normal circumstances. Because standard SSJ Gohan doesn't account for the hidden power. Even when 16 died and Gohan did his first power-up, Cell was still not impressed and compared him to Trunks. His power rose significantly, but not enough. Only when he went SSJ2 did his power really explode.

And yes, Gohan had the ability hit Cell and knock him down, but Cell wasn't even trying at all. He wasn't even remotely close to full power. Goku had a whole battle with him and almost killed him.

Again, I'd argue that Gohan in his normal SSJ state was weaker than SSJ Goku and full-power Gohan was far beyond SSJ Goku, but full-power Gohan is SSJ2, not SSJ.

I don't think it's fair to count rage boosts/hidden potentials as the average max power. Because if that's the case, we could argue that Cell Saga SSJ Vegeta was stronger than SSJ Goku because his power skyrocketed to almost SSJ2-level after Trunks was killed, meaning that Vegeta had hidden power he had access to, but not under normal circumstances. Cell had to brace himself when Vegeta came at him and even SSJ2 Gohan was shocked.

We obviously saw that again later when he got angry at Beerus and his power increased hundreds of times, going way past SSJ3 Goku.

VFalcone posted...

Gohan had the ability hit Cell and knock him down, but Cell wasn't even trying at all. He wasn't even remotely close to full power.

LOL he wasn't remotely close to full power against Goku either

VFalcone posted...

Goku had a whole battle with him and almost killed him.

More shit you made up.

Vegeta was stronger than SSJ Goku because his power skyrocketed to almost SSJ2-level after Trunks was killed

This guy

Incredible posted...

LOL he wasn't remotely close to full power against Goku either

That's fair

More shit you made up.

Instant Transmission Kamehameha could've killed Cell

This guy

Look at this guy purposely cutting out all of the context behind what he quoted

VFalcone posted...

That's fair

Instant Transmission Kamehameha could've killed Cell

Look at this guy purposely cutting out all of the context behind what he quoted

The Warp Kamehameha did get close. Goku at that point probably figured it was a risk worth taking. Take the chance that he might be able to win on his own and save Gohan the emotional trauma, and worst case scenario he exhausts himself and thus has a genuine excuse to give up.

Vegetas rage boost against Super Perfect Cell didnt put him to SSJ2 level but it did give him a significant increase. Cell actually braces for impact, which has to count for something. Vegetas attack inflicts no damage in the end but the fact remains Cell couldnt just tank it effortlessly.

Vegeta got no rage boost.

VFalcone posted...

Instant Transmission Kamehameha could've killed Cell

It didn't and Cell wasn't even at full power lol

Incredible posted...

Vegeta got no rage boost.

It didn't and Cell wasn't even at full power lol

Oh oooooooookay guy. If you say so lol.

Heartomaton posted...

The first Broly movie is set near the end of the Android Saga, not the beginning. This is around the time everyone was training for the Cell Games, which would mean it's late enough that 17 and 18 are no match for any of the main fighters who aren't named Yamcha, Tien, and Krillin.

My bad then. I thought the first Broly movie was before the Android saga.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Cell Games Gohan > Goku denial is a new one indeed.

I 100% agree that SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku

But I think that the argument for Goku being stronger is simply in how the Cell vs SSJ Gohan fight plays out. Goku appears to be on nearly equal footing compared to Cell (we all know that Cell is holding back by a fair margin, but blow for blow, it has the illusion of being equal). Meanwhile, Cell appears to play with his food when fighting with Gohan, and there is no evidence that Cell increases his power in anyway during that entire fight, prior to Gohan going SSJ2. So on the surface, just from watching the two fights I can see why one would get the message that SSJ Goku > SSJ Gohan.

Come to think of it when Gohan fights Cell, its his first actual battle in 5 years. Half of his entire life to that point has passed without a battle. He was 5 on Namek, and then 5 years pass until the Cell battle (1 year between the return from Namek and Trunks first appearing, 3 years training for the Androids, and 1 year in the RoSaT). Ive always through that it was stupid how much Gohan shrank from the battle vs Cell, considering the tremendous growth he showed on Namek. But the event of Namek essentially lasted for a week. And then it was 5 years of peace, albeit most of it involved intense training. So I guess the case could be made that Gohan would lose that fighting edge during that time but I still think his reluctance to fight is kinda dumb and comes outta nowhere in the heat of the battle. </tangent>

OG Broly is no question stronger than Perfect Cell. At the very least before his zenkai boost. Broly stomps.

_Odin posted...

OG Broly is no question stronger than Perfect Cell. At the very least before his zenkai boost. Broly stomps.

Yeah...Cell got his upper half blown off by a kamehameha, whereas Broly straight walked through one from the same Goku. It's no question at all. Broly was so insanely OP they basically had to resort to plot bullshit to make him lose lol